Sylph_Knight

I am extremely grateful for the alternate animations, yet I would really prefer an alternate KO-Blow animation that didn't look goofy (two-fisted uppercut looks wonky to me).

I'd rather enjoy a classic uppercut.

I just noticed their alternative for KO-Blow was a two-fisted punch and not single-handed. I didn't notice until it was mentioned in this thread.

I would really like an alternative to KO-Blow that doesn't look goofy. Just a really heavy, one-handed uppercut (Tiger Uppercut!) would do nicely. I'm tired of my ultimate attack looking like a spoof attack from Popeye. And a two-fisted upswing can't really be called a "Megaton Punch". I think that'd have to be registered as a plural noun instead of the singular.

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This wouldn't just make tankers last longer, it would put some tankers over a thin line into sustaining their rate of damage, and bring many more close enough to it to not matter. Not that I think that's a bad thing, necessarily, but I think reducing endurance costs and recovery rates, either for particular archetypes or for everyone, at an equal ratio would make lasting longer easier by default without affecting what is or is not sustainable in the long term, effectively making the 100 max end a larger influence in a fight than recovery rate.

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I would have to bring out serious number crunching to spit out the true repercussions of this in builds that have access to more than just stamina for endurance recovery this change would be about on spot relative to scrapper endurance consumption assuming equivalent builds.

The only other way I can see to make it so that the one set with Quick Recovery performs to better is to lower even further but give tankers lower recovery rates, the number to get there would require a bit more math than I can do right now. I'd say the same for endurance drain but they have ONES modifers. Only way to make those "weaker" is to make tanker Endurance bar higher (instead of lower end use modifiers) so they fill less of the bar along with an equivalent end recovery tweak so that things end better than now but not too better for sets with Quick Recovery.

Overall, though, I'm not sure that's a huge issue, extremely optimized characters may already almost eliminate their endurance woes, the issue is casual players and characters that are still in development, specially low level tanking situations where the tanker is forced to just taunt if he wants to go about using toggles and tank.

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Considering that my Tanker's slotting is to emphasize on recovery instead of endurance reduction, unless the endurance-per-second return rate with all three toggles active remains the same I would be very much against a recovery debuff.

Sweet, thanks for the link.

Awesome, thanks!

Here's how I see the evolution of endurance management in this game.

Even in Beta, many saw the significance of Stamina. The first few issues had a fairly wide gap between character performance which was largely (but not exclusively) tied to whether or a person decided to take the Fitness pool or not. The insane difficulty of the Respec trials when they first released (your experiences may very, but failing 23 Respec Trials in the first week they came out convinced me to quit the game for almost two years - they were clearly built for players who were not gimped during that period) only furthered the divide until they were fixed.

It came to the point where Stamina was an unofficial standard for builds of competitive worth (exempting obvious sets that had their own endurance management tools). That technically hasn't changed. The dawn of Invention Origin Enhancements has aided in resolving endurance problems as well. The irony is that both of these management tools are considered "outside the balancing box" - they are extras that archetypes and power sets are presumably designed to operate in absence of. Furthermore, they are only truly available after you reach the mid-point of your character's leveling career (with rare exceptions to particular IOs, which have only minute bonuses at that level regardless). The only real power that is readily available for Tankers in general which could be considered "in the balancing box" is Conserve Power from the Energy Mastery set - and it is not available until the late 40s, and only to those who take that set.

As for the Rest power - the original version of this game was clearly designed to have players engage in regular downtime. Rest has been hypothetically driven into complete obsolescence - and I for one am thankful.

When all is said and done, history shows that the game has undergone power creep and numerous design changes - it was inevitable and it has been (with the exception of debatable changes such as Power Proliferation and I13 PvP) beneficial for the game and its community. That said, I think it is a safe bet to assume that old assumptions about choke-holding default endurance management capabilities (and endurance of all archetypes in general) in some kind of balancing tool mentality is a thoroughly outdated concept. Willpower proved that point quite well.

The fact that Tankers are the most endurance inefficient archetype in the game speaks volumes about this age-old gameplay fossil.

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I think a point has been missed in all this math as well -

Taking longer to kill a target ALSO means that target has a lengthier opportunity to regenerate HP, thus adding another factor in the formula. This may not mean much to Minions and LTs, but it does have a noticable impact on Bosses and higher.

In other words, not only must you do more attacks to break down their original HP values, you must also add even MORE attacks to break through the HP they've regenerated in that additional time. I would hate to see the math on this one.

I believe a proposal was mentioned at one point (and thereafter extensively reviewed) of adding a -Regen modifier to enemies affected by Gauntlet regarding this issue.

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You also need to consider that a tanker is much harder to kill, and would take longer for said mob to defeat. The only fair way to increase the damage of the tanker to a target should also leave the tanker more vulnerable to that same target.

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I never mentioned boosting damage in that statement and don't intend to debate its relevance. What bothers me is the endurance burned over the additional time and attacks launched because of the enemy's regen. Just because a Tanker can survive longer and better than the Scrapper doesn't mean that he can attacking as many foes or as long. In other words, time is not the end-factor of the problem. Additional endurance burned during that period is.

The -regen idea would arguably take away some of that sting without giving them a means to boost their farming abilities (Since the effect would be meaningless against Minions and LTs), but I pretty much support any idea which would close the endurance burn gap - damage or otherwise.

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I would hate to see the math on this one.

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Geek out.

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*Dramatically removes monocle* Dear god...

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O.O And people say that I don't have a life...

On a more serious note, I want to congratulate and thank you for actually fishing up those numbers and providing the analysis. I must admit actually seeing for myself on paper that the average AV generates high-end Willpower Regen numbers is a shock, which I would relate to negating the DPS equivalent of one SO-build damage-secondary archetype for the duration of the entire battle.

I think a point has been missed in all this math as well -

Taking longer to kill a target ALSO means that target has a lengthier opportunity to regenerate HP, thus adding another factor in the formula. This may not mean much to Minions and LTs, but it does have a noticable impact on Bosses and higher.

In other words, not only must you do more attacks to break down their original HP values, you must also add even MORE attacks to break through the HP they've regenerated in that additional time. I would hate to see the math on this one.

I believe a proposal was mentioned at one point (and thereafter extensively reviewed) of adding a -Regen modifier to enemies affected by Gauntlet regarding this issue.

What astounds me is that every time Johnny rears his head, everyone falls into his trap and destroys the thread for him. When will the world learn that he's probably just another Twixt building up "research" for a paper or something at our expense.

Starsman - I support your idea as I support many Tank-improving concepts. While I agree it requires polish, I am afraid I don't really have anything I can add that hasn't already been mentioned once or twice here already.

Edit: My post count is over NINE-HUNDRED!!!

Only eight-thousand and one-hundred posts left to go.

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Steel 70 ain't got nothin' on the Champion Centum. 18 Dropships down!

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*Pops knuckles*

Just for that, I'm gonna have to build the mother of all raids next invasion weekend on Justice.

Congratulations Champion for a job well done! It's wonderful to see the sport of Ship Dropping to have gained such wide popularity since two years back. Would you believe they used to call it crazy?! Cheers!

Ah nuts, I missed it.

Better luck next time I suppose. Thanks for setting this up, Pep!

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Sylphy, that was a wonderful time taking out those ships....thank you for organizing this....now I need to do a Rikti Drop Ship raid spec for my f.rad...dang you *shakes fits*

*is waiting anxiously for the video*

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Always a pleasure making more work for you, Aysel. *laughs*

But seriously, thank you. It's really exciting to know that so many people enjoyed this event.

What are you all talking about? My Tank is the Win Tank. And it's a classic. Double Win Tank!!

Nice shots, Sapphire!

I believe that's me in shot 20 showing the engines of the Drop Ship some real "Air Superiority"!

Shot 49 brings back memories of the epic screenshot used on the July 6, 2007 front-page image of the City Scoop (see my sig).

Thank you all very much for coming! It was great seeing so many faces, familiar and new. I'd also like to thank the Crimson Moon SG, Chrome Support channel staff, and Dark_Respite for recording the event. That's 10 more Drop Ships the Rikti are gonna have to fit the bill on!

Some of us attempted to destroy Drop Ships in other zones afterwards but we didn't have enough people. Regardless, that was not part of the operation for Task Force Unlimited Justice so please don't worry about it.

I was shocked that we surpassed both the Steel 70 and Justice Hundred fold raids with less people and far less time to coordinate (I was going to create specialized Blaster/SB and Group Fly-oriented teams) but the ships came sooner than expected.

Due to popular demand, I'll be going back to the drawing board and coming up with a multi-zone Drop Ship Raid event for the next Rikti Invasion weekend. The goal will be to surpass the record held by Virtue (which I just learned about - blast you, Virtue! )

I can't wait to see Dark_Respite's completed footage. Thank you all for participating, Task Force Unlimited Justice!

I'm going to head over to Steel now (best to get a head-start on things). I'll start sending out invitations around 5:45. I'll be on my namesake, so just send me a tell when you guys are ready in about an hour. We're gonna have to do some widespread recruitment.

Steel Canyon. It would require too much effort to move 100 people to another zone within a reasonable time frame.

Thank you all for your support.

And Dark_Respite - I would be very honored if you attended.

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This could be so epic....or so epic fail. Can't wait to see the details!

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Explain how you think it could fail?
They're adding new animations...they're not changing anything.
There is no way this can fail.

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That's true. What I really should say is it could be great or nothing depending on the details.

I'm just in the "I hate KO blow animation camp" and the thought of having the option to improve it is just so cool, that the thought of the alternative being something I like less, just makes me sad.

But wow, I made like 400 assumptions there so I'll just need to sit back and "wait and see". Overall, I'm pretty excited about this.

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Who knows, maybe they'll let us replace KO Blow with this.

Oh yeah! Megaton Punch, here I come!

Great to see you all again. Let's make this raid even more successful than the last!

Remember the Justice Hundredfold? Two years ago, one-hundred airborne Heroes tore through the skies of Steel Canyon and destroyed the first seven Rikti Drop Ships on Justice server. This show of force left a crushing impact on the Rikti's morale which stands even to this day. But it seems the Rikti have regained their nerve and are readying to mount a new offensive. It's time to take the skies back once again...

Operation Unlimited Justice begins!

This Sunday, July 19th at 6pm Central Time / 7pm Eastern Time - Heroes of any level (though preferrably with a means to [u]fly[u]) will begin assembling in Steel Canyon to relive the great aerial chase of the Justice Hundredfold (and their Test Server predecessors, the Steel 70)!

This will be a two-phase battle in which we will be facing off against the first squadron of 9 Drop Ships before the Rikti ground forces arrive - at which point we will be assembling at the second invasion point to take out the next 9 Drop Ships in a climactic finale!

Join us as we amass a super-powered legion to bring Justice down upon these floating fortresses! Bring your Jet Packs, Stretch your Wings, and Fly in the face of danger along with your friends in a legendary battle above the skyscrapers in Paragon City's center of commerce! Get ready for the chase of a lifetime!

Wicked.

Darned shame that it's not really a high-point for me, but wicked all the same.

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I'd like to seem them remove the crash and make perma-rage impossible, or leave the perma-bility as is and increase the effects of the crash.

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Ever since Strength of Will debuted, to be followed by One with the Shield, I've been wondering when Rage would get the "unenhanceable recharge" type.

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Don't you dare.