SwellGuy

No! YOU FORCE them to buy your evilly overpriced flipped goods!

And the default status of bins upon creation is only the top two rankings can put items in and take items out of a bin so the super leader or a leader has to change those for a new character to get them or promote the new character up to leader status.

Believe me this is very annoying when my third tier alt in my SG creates a bin only for me to realize I cannot put anything in it until I login a leader character to change the settings.

I don't think there are too many just a vocal few and it's not that it's difficult to figure out it's that they are so smitten with the idea that they shouldn't have to make any effort to have the elite gear of our game but that they also deserve to have it because it is there.

Left to choose between making a small effort to get the goodies or whine over the unfairness of the evil flippers in the market they choose the easier path of whining.

Why did anyone need to PvP in the first place?

Why did people need to show off their costumes?

Why did people need to RP?

Why did people need to race to 50?

Why did people need to get all the badges first?

Why does there have to be a universal need in order for some players to do something in a game?

But what did you need?

I didn't need costume recipes but people were paying insane amounts on them until the devs upped the drop rate. If I did need them, I wouldn't have been able to afford them.

How rich were you when the markets launched? I only had 20 million combined across all my characters. I never bought Luck Charms back then (hero side) because they were more than I could afford. Did I give up? No I went and sold them as they dropped for me so I could use TOs and then SOs on my characters.

Did you ever try to get Field Crafter? If you did how did you not struggle for market slots?

Did you ever have a villain and have to leave up your bids/listings for weeks/months until they filled? (not that any flippers ever helped me there)

No argument about Depps' draw factor. He is awesome and always has been.

But I am trying to imagine who could be the Lone Ranger with Depp playing a sidekick character.

I guess I was just thinking cast 2 young guys (under 40 and preferably closer to 30) so you can have a long running series of movies.

I'd want Depp as Butch Cavendish. He'd rock as the villain in this.

/signed!

Attention devs!

Absolutely. I have watched the first two Twilight movies because I wanted to see what all the hype and hate was about and my agreement with you isn't even because of any Twilight hate because I didn't hate it. I just didn't like it from a few standpoints.

And over the course of its seasons Buffy was a very good show. And Angel was a good spin off.

For me the bad part of Twilight is I really cannot connect to the characters. I was able to connect to characters in the Buffy movie and series in many ways even when it was rather silly at times but after the first two Twilight movies I really don't find myself caring what happens to the characters and wondering where the hero is to take down the bad vampires? Werewolves on a reservation just don't cut it for me.

Chock full of the usual suspect nonsense which is why I am quoting this.

First error of this poster is the claim that 'every argument' thrown.

My first argument I always use is that this is a game and whining about market prices is like whining about not getting to win at Monopoly.

So we already have doused this poster's nonsense with reality.

Then we see his lie that everyone reacts in some silly rabid emotional manner. Most posts begin with pointing out the errors of the ways of people like this poster yet it is they who put their heads where sound cannot penetrate as they continue to make silly assertions like flippers starve their grandmothers.

Then he moves on to ignoring reality without addressing it by claiming that flippers do raise prices. They magically force people to pay more of course for what other explanation could there be? It surely cannot ever be demand by users.

Then he throws out the tired example where someone points out that you can mess with prices, for a short time, and he ignores that people post they lose money when this is done and it is done purely for entertainment. This is not flipping. Flippers don't flip for losses.

I could go on pointing out the errors of reason and rationale of this poster but really there is no point as it would surely ignore my post's logic and claim I am defending the flippers because I am one which I am not.

Of course then this poster would say I am lying, which I am not.

Of course I made my inf over the years recognizing that flippers buy at X and sell at Y so I bid a little over X and listed my sales for 75-80% of Y so I would make my sales. That anyone with an ounce of intelligence could figure this out and do it is not "fair" to a poster like this for these ingame items deprive them and the mythical casual player of food, shelter and human comforts.

The final point is people who complain about the market do it purely for selfish reasons and usually are lying about trying to help some non-existent "casual" player who knows they want PvP IOs in their build but aren't expected to do any research into how the market works or to justify by what right they have to get anything sold on the market over any other person who is willing to outbid them.

Meanwhile the pro-flipper posters are forthright and honest about their self interests when asked. So who's the liar again?

Can dumpleberries be set on fire for flaming dumpleberries?

Take consolation DB. The pro-RMT crowd eventually loses their accounts and next week (I hope) when the devs slam the current AE hole shut they will all be here screaming about how the devs ruined the game.

So you've made up your mind and you won't let the facts get in your way? Check.

Thanks for letting me know you have no serious intention of trying to get information.

Those are long running fallacies people have been spouting for 3 1/2 years since the markets and inventions were added to the game.

Until you and people like you get that IOs are luxury items in the game and that prior to the markets people couldn't afford even SOs until their 30s without sugar daddies you will continue to bang your head into the wall of reality.

I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here but education is clearly not one of your goals.

No it's a fairly common expression in English. Perhaps you are reading something into it that isn't there?

"Bob went to work on the puzzle on his card table."

"Karl went to work on cleaning the kitchen."

The drinking squirrel sums up my view nicely.

Nope. Not unless someone buys it.

And who forces someone to buy the flipper's 50 Million IO rather than someone else's 30 million IO? This isn't art work. Each level 30 LotG 7.5% IO is equal to every other level 30 LotG 7.5% IO so it doesn't matter if one sells for 30 M and then 50 M if I can buy one for myself at 30 M.

And do you realize your claim would mean flippers could make any item in the market go up to 2 billion in price because you never consider any other factors?

The gap is going to be there with or without the flippers in action because it was already there before the flipper saw the opportunity and went to work.

Well he is a very smart kid so I am not surprised that he could figure out the market. What does surprise me is these supposedly grown up people cannot figure it out.

I also don't understand how these supposed grownups who pay grownup bills can even seriously compare IOs in the market with rent, food and life's basic necessities.

Perhaps my mistake is in thinking they are grownups?

Again, no they don't. They make a profit from buying it from someone listing it low and selling it to someone bidding high.

They prevent vast market shortfalls which used to happen all the times and still happen from time to time which drive up the prices even higher for periods of time AND make people wait to get them for those higher prices.

No they don't.

They cannot make people pay more than people want to pay.

Perhaps you need to stop with theory and look at how the market works.

Lowest lister is sold to highest bidder.

This means at some time a flipper had to be the highest bidder and then later they have to be the lowest lister or they will buy nothing and sell nothing.

Flippers find items where the gap between the lowest and highest price make a profit margin for them. They did not create either of those extremes.

All they do is take items from impatient sellers and sell them to impatient buyers.

Average is not median.

This is a game.

When people see something is worth selling they sell it. So flippers raise the floor selling price so people like me will sell it. If it is too low I just vendor or delete it.

Keep in mind if you seriously have any real interest in discussing this and not making some statement that there are two ways to consider supply in the game. There is the supply generated by drops and there is the supply for sale on the market.

So rather than assuming you know more than everyone else here perhaps you may want to open your mind and read. You are arguing nothing that we haven't seen for 3 1/2 years.

Consider how most people play the game and then come to use the market. What you see as market problems caused by manipulation are actually caused by how players use the market as a store to buy things now and not use it with patient bidding.

The second fallacy most people then fall into when they get that is "well it's a game so I shouldn't have to work for these things". The devs disagree. If they didn't there would not be rare drops in the game. They also state repeatedly the game is designed around SOs which is what people don't have to work for. IOs are a luxury item in the game.

The third fallacy most people then fall into is in the mistaken belief that because they don't make influence as quickly as many other that those others are either farmers, flippers or inf buyers.

And it goes on. Rather than learning most people simply decide it cannot be done or it cannot be done "fairly".

I spent a year playing the game to purple my warshade combining drops with selling drops smartly with buying what I lacked smartly. I then spent 3 days just buying it now for my controller to purple out. So I know how to do it and I know how it is done and you are just wrong.

Try looking up words like 'game' or perhaps a specific game like 'Monopoly'. But hey, keep flinging insults where your lack of reason finds a home.

Stopping at this point. If flippers aren't getting everything (and I agree they aren't) then they aren't a problem to be solved. They are part of the system.

Someone paid it. So someone doesn't have a problem with it. And as far as where someone gets their inf you seem to have some problem getting that if I play my 50 for 5 years he is going to have a lot of influence. If you are one of those people that call it farming there's no where we can go with any discussions.

If you believe there is a "normal" player to base things against I see no way we can have a real discussion.

I'm being ridiculous? I am abusing the system? Ah the attacks begin where the thinking fails.

Too bad you are completely wrong. Meanwhile I get to enjoy playing the game and you can BMW to your heart's content and the devs won't do what you want. They will point you towards their additons they already added.

Not entirely. There are groups of people who do "grief" the market by deliberately creating shortages to drive up prices to amuse themselves.

Of course the debate then goes towards are they harming the economy by effectively destroying wealth?

I am of the opinion that there are enough people using the combined markets that effectively no group can really affect the game economy like the banking industry or mortgage industry, etc. can in real life. This is entirely due to the nature of the game creating wealth (inf and drops) out of the air.

This cannot be done in real life but in a game there is no way to have a shortage of natural resources because it just RNGs more.