StrangeMatter

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COH players have been asking for fishnets and motorcycle jackets and pirate options since COH beta. That a year and a half later these options would be added for villains only is like a slap in the face.

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Bob: Welcome to another episode of "Stretch My Simile"! Today, we find out if having some costume options be exclusive to CoV really is like a slap in the face. Are you ready Judy?

Judy: Uh... I'm not su-

*SLAP*

Judy: OW!

Bob: Well, Judy, which was worse? Not having fishnets on your hero or getting slapped in the face?

Judy: I'm not- I don't know-

Bob: Well, let's try that again

*SLAP*

Judy: OW!

Bob: Now, Judy, what do you-

Judy: You abusive jerk! I'm outta here! And I'm taking the children! *runs off*

Bob: Well, that's it for another episode of "Stretch My Simile"! Our conclusion today: Women are ungrateful wenches!

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Edit: yeah I goofed and moved my fingers before my eyes. Sue me!

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Why do you get all defensive instead of apologizing to Statesman for criticizing? Is it because you need to re-read what was said.

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Because having the same person repeat the same thing as 3 people above them gets annoying.

Not that it matters because you probably have no clue what the rest of my original post meant.

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Dude, I think you need to re-read what Statesman said, you totally missed the point.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I think the last few people pointing this out have been yanking your chain...

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before this turns ugly... ok it may allready be so.. may i point out some of the obvious?

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Yeah, I think we passed 'ugly' about 30 pages ago and are now somewhere between 'puerile' and 'earbleedingly moronic'.

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Ok so let me get this right. The winner wasn't chosen because his costume was good or because his story was original. They just wanted an agyptian costume and a character of egyptian origin to add this little snippet of information about the BotBS which is part of the card game.

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I really, really doubt it. I'd suspect it was more like

"Ok, this is the one we like the best."
"Hey, this guy's Egyptian, we can tie it in to the Blood of the Black Stream."
"Cool idea!"

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The reason the Companies and devs nerf things is because it's the easiest thing to do when trying to bring everything back into balance. If you complain that somthing is over powered expect it to get nerfed. the when sombody complains that you are overpowered well it's your turn in the nerf jar.

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And if no-one complains things still get changed. Who ever claimed that SRs and Ice Tankers were overpowered?

Maybe, just maybe, the devs use their own data, testing and long-term plans while listening to the community for fresh ideas and to gauge reaction.... just like they claim they do.

It's easy to blame "nerfherders" for changes, but I think people shouldn't hesitate to post their suggestions. The devs won't make changes just based on a few uninformed complainers.

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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,

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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*

Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?

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Wow! What a witty response, you should be proud.
Did you think that up yourself?

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The originality of the response met the originality of the OP. Good job on catching the point, there.

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Well I write this with a heavy heart as it has been a month of i5 and no repeal in sight. So now I am forced to merely remember the fun I had to i5 as my sub runs out the 4th of Oct,

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*sniff* I'm... I'm speechless... *choked up*

Oh yeah, can I have your stuff?

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The real statement was on the release boards, shortly after CoV was announced. Lots of people immediately announced that PvP concerns would negatively impact PvE balance, and the response was along the lines of "PvP balance issues will not affect PvE. We can make powers work differently in each".

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I remember that post, and I believe that's the one that Statesman is referring to in his recent post where he said that in the past he's said "We'll not change PvE for PvP-only reasons *whenever possible*"

While I seem to remember the "whenever possible" in the original post, others don't. Unless someone out there has an archive, I think we're at the mercy of our memories.

This doesn't have any bearing on his other point, however, that they *haven't* made any PvE changes based solely on PvP. Everything in I5 has at leas some PvE reason for changing.

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I’m sorry I just don’t agree. I5 had tons of changes in powerset that based PvE nerfs SOLELY on PvP content. I just disagree... that’s all.

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You can agree or disagree but this isn't a subjective matter. Either changes were made that were solely PvP-driven or not. Statesman has said explicitly that there were not. If this is false, he's not just wrong, he's conciously lying.

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Should I take this comment to heart, like I did the "PvP will not effect PvE" comments

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I don't know why you'd take that to heart since he never said that. He did say that PvP-only changes would affect PvE as little as possible, which seems true so far.

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and "everyone will be able to solo in this game/we will be catering to the casual players" type comments

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This is plenty true. While I don't think that anyone who reads/posts here with any regularity can be called "casual", I'm pretty close.

I play less than 10 hours/week and don't pay attention to the numbers behind the powers. I solo characters of all 5 ATs and each issue has made the game more fun.

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from pre CoH beta, only to find out later that "Well, that's not really what we meant"?

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I did a search and can't find a single example of any Dev saying that. There are a couple of cases where they, in suitably polite language, said "learn how to read", which seems to be the problem here.

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The most obvious answer?......PvP. Resistance based sets would be far to hard to wear down in a PvP type enviroment.

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And yet Stone, Fire and Dark Armor have plenty of Resistances and weren't reduced at all... If you're going to accuse them of lying, you should have actual *proof*.

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The invuln changes really don't make sense in any other light.

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...any other light that you are willing to consider. How about "it plays better and is more fun in general like this". Because it's not more fun for you, this may be hard to accept. But it may also be true.

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No matter how many times you tell me I didn't have fun in I1, 2, and 3 I know I did.

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Once again, he never said that. To the best of the dev team's ability, I5 is *more fun* than the earlier issues, but to say that that the game was unfun before I5 is silly.


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My regen scrapper ran every mission, every taskforce, gathered every badge....all of the things you specifically said Regen scrappers didn't do,

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"specifically said"? Wow, that would be a heck of a statement. If he ever made it.

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I sure hope so. It's what your playerbase craves at this point.

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OMG, where have you been hiding! James Randi has $1,000,000 waiting for you with your proof of actual psychic ability! Heck, I'd personally give you $100 if you could provide evidence that even as little as 10% of the playerbase "craves" more PvE content. I'll accept just about any actual proof. Posts from 15,000 different users would probably be the easiest.

Here's a tip: People don't generally stand up and shout "I'm perfectly happy!" When people pay $15/month for a service and aren't happy, they speak up. This isn't a small statistically effect. About 5% of the playerbase posts here, that's around 7k people.

Let's say that they *all* hate I5 (obviously not true, but why not). Let's then say that only represents 1/3 of the people that are unhappy (the other 2/3rds are too lazy to say anything even though they pay for the service, again I think I'm being conservative here). That means 21,000 people *hate* I5.

WoW has shown that an MMO *can* get a userbase in the millions. Cryptic and NcSoft absolutely must increase the userbase of CoH. Status quo won't do it (or else we'd see a greater growth trend since launch); more content won't do it (people who haven't played haven't seen the content that's here now); making the game more fun is the *only* way to do it.

If getting a userbase of millions costs a few thousand people who preferred things the old way, I think any company would take that bet and say to those people "Sorry things didn't work out, we hope you like our next game!"

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I5 may have "fixed" some things -- and many of those are arguable --
but it is unarguable that it has broken many others.

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If it was unarguable, I really don't think we'd be on page 40 of this thread right now. That's quite a silly thing to say.

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Oh wait, all ATs are superfluous.

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Strickly speaking, this isn't true.

All-Blaster and All-Scrapper teams underperform terribly.

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By saying "All tanks are superflous" the OP is saying that tanks are beyond what is required. That is, in any given team make-up a tank could be replaced and things would still function.

And I'm saying that all ATs are superflous. If you've got a Pentad, for example, I'm not saying that you can replace all of them with a Blaster, I'm saying that you can replace *any one* of them with something and still be effective.

The "something" depends on the circumstance, but in any team, any single AT can be replaced with *something* and still be effective.

And for those that decry the "cookie cutter" team requirements of other MMPs, that is a Good Thing.

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Tanks are now superfluous, for example.

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Oh noes, that's horrible!!

Oh wait, all ATs are superfluous. Pick an AT and scenario (outside of Hamidon) and 10 people here can name a team that can succeed without that AT.

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Nice. I respect what you've said and how you've said it. I will not, however, take back MY statement regarding that individual to be a liar. It's the way the game IS for tankers. I would have been more at ease if he had said that he DIDN'T even have Invincibility, but instead he concocts this unbelieveable farce of having it unslotted??? I felt his post was intentionally aimed at making tanker players IRATE. Well, he got ONE!

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Considering that everything said on the boards must be taken on faith, calling someone a liar seems like a silly position unless you can back it up.

There's a large thread in the Tanker forum right now that has several people who are making the same claim, that they are perfectly viable as Inv tankers. Are they all liars, too?

What I find most disturbing is that you think me only using the default slot in Invincibility is an "unbelievable farce". Is it really so hard for you to believe that people play this game and don't pay attention to the numbers? I've got a basic idea of what does what, but know very few of the specific numbers. I picked up Invincibility in the mid-20s because it seemed like a good idea. I prefer the Resist-based powers, so I haven't bothered adding extra slots.

I'm really amazed that this is so unbelievable to you. I'm not claiming to be uber. I'm not claiming that I herd entire levels (though some on that other thread have). I'm just saying that I get by. Yeah, I'm set on Invincible. Solo I face groups of 3 to 6ish and grouped my teammates kill them before they kill me. I use inspirations as I get 'em. I run and rest when I need to. I get by just fine, just like before I5. I can't even figure out what part you think I'm making up!

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Ritiki bosses all switch to S/L / Ene once you close. CoT it really depends but even many of them will switch to S/L in melee. DE is almost all S/L with only a few using Toxic, at range again in melee they go S/L. Council use some fire and sonic but the vast majority are S/L.

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Ok, you pick! I just got to level 40 last week, and am taking on Carnies and Preatorians. Again, at Invincible, teamed and solo. You tell me what group is too tough for a tanker and I'll do some missions and see if it's possible. At some point it becomes objectively clear that "Tankers are not viable anymore" is not a true statement!

Say "Tanking the way I like isn't viable anymore" and no-one could disprove you unless you made an honest effort at co-operation. But the original statement just isn't true.

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No actually unlike you I play a game called city of Heroes maybe you should try it.

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I'm all for some good trash talk but this just doesn't make sense. What exactly would you call the game I'm describing, where you have to use all of your ingenuity, powers and teamwork to overcome impossible odds?

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States,

I5 is a complete disaster to the game and when will it end?
TO WHAT POINT WILL THESE NERFS STOP!!!!!!!!!!! ISSUE 24?
IM SICK AND TIRED OF RESPECTING AFTER EVERY ISSUE.....
MY PROBLEMS,

CONTROLLERS
I want my pets back, It took you a full year to actually decide on removing pets, why didnt this happen in issue2? Not everyone takes hasten or slots more recharge time unto there pets..We all have diferent play styles. Fulcrum shift was my turning point power at level 38, I do not see it anymore, issue 1 &2 fS helped me through tough battles on my own...

Tankers- There are 2 types of players on coh FOR THIS AT
1) mission players TANKS
2) POWER LEVEL TANKS

I LOVE PL AND I WILL NOT STOP DOING IT? I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT UR MISSIONS AND TASKFORCE WHATVER CRAP U HAVE FOR THIS GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE IM NOT ASKING MUCH, I NEED MY COH FIX ON PL EVERY DAY..I COULD CARE LESS IF ITS REPATIVE OR BORING TO U BUT FOR ME ITS FUN

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Quoted for sheer earbleeding pain.

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Your insuferable, we tell you we play our character, we tell you we die, and you shout back "play the character and use the envron" have you ever cosider that your playstyle is radically different then others and that as w have stated numerous times I5 is forcing ups to change our PLAYSTYLE into a COKKIE CUTTER to survive.

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At no-point was I responding to anyone who said "I can't play Tanks the way I want anymore". I would never respond to such a post because I think that posting something like that is silly and useless. It would be like me posting "I hate corkflakes." Who cares? This is a community. That you are having a problem and have no desire to fix that problem is no business of anyone elses.

The poster I replied to said "Tanks can't be played anymore without a cookie cutter build." That is false and I replied with an example of a non-cookie cutter build that plays just fine.

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Agreed, questioning tough hide though and think that might be slotted as well. Needs something to at least offset the defense debuff.

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You're right, forgot TH. I've got that, unslotted.

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Your resists

90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi

That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L.

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Hm at lvl 40: Rikti bosses with Psi, CoT with plenty of Fire/Energy, Devouring Earth toxins, Council energy weapons... Yep, lots of non-S/L. Again, all on Invincible, solo and teamed.

So "Hardly enough" is just not true. I can really understand how those who play City of Spreadsheets would freak out when the numbers change so much. I'd encourage them to take a step back and think if maybe there might be other ways to *play* beyond the ones they've tried. Pop those insprs, use the terrain the manage aggro, make the most of any teammates.

It *can* be done, it's not even that hard (no ueber player here, my 5 between lvls 30 and 40 and nothing higher), and I've seen plenty of others post similar accounts.

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To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks.

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I don't know who "we" is, but it definitely isn't all players. My Inv has invincibility unslotted and only uses it against large groups, he doesn't even have dull pain, and has RPD and RE slotted up along with TI and Unyielding.

He has no problem soloing on Invincible (except for the expected snails pace in dealing damage) or tanking for large groups.

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I have been playing for a while now and I have seen alot of changes. I remember when I first saw the game a was just blown away. You used to be able to make SUPER HEROES. Then it changed to HEROES. Now its like you can make a slightly advanced person that likes to die over and over again

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Huh. My characters are still Super Heroes, every bit as viable as they've been since issue 1.

I must be doing something wrong.

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Frankly, it is not unreasonable to expect to have a game that actually has proper documentation to how powers work and what they actually do. CoH hasn't provided that from day one if you take the time to think about it.

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It's not unreasonable at all, *unless* it is a stated element of the game that that information is not provided.

It would be very reasonable for Firaxis to provide the exact AI formulas for Civilization III, and many people would love to have that info. However, they've decided that withholding that information from the players provides a more immersive game.

Similarly with City of Heroes, Jack has explicitly stated that he would prefer to not release numbers whenever possible. Now, the very nature of the game allows players to figure out most of the numbers involved and they can't stop it. However, it doesn't mean they have to encourage it in any way.

They don't want City of Spreadsheets and while people can play that game all they want, I don't understand how anyone can not see where they can are coming from.

It's not like you're asking them to do something they may just have neglicted to do; you're asking them to do something that they have explicitly said that they *do not* want to do. You're asking them to fundamentally change the feel of the game.

Of course, anyone can ask that, but it doesn't seem like these posts have that understanding to them. It's like they're asking some small thing.

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What if all blasters had an inherant power that only became active when their health dropped below x%? ... Then if you get a heal, you have a 1-time damage increase blast to be used when you wish.

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How would you deal with the "air drop" exploit? That is, start every outdoor battle by dropping from the Zone ceiling just out of aggro range of the mobs (raising your meter to max), then get healed up and go to town...