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Posts
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I found it interesting watching the difference between the quality and technique of the defenders in England verse USA. A few times it looked like the American forwards easily outclassed the English in athleticism and speed only to be turned away by good positioning, technique and a relatively fair elbow to the chest (just standard physical play).
On the opposite side the English attack did well moving the ball around and spreading out. The American defenders looked lost, confused and outrageously out of position at times. Curse you Bocanegra! Yet, sadly, I cannot name an American I'd rather have in his placePerhaps this feeling is how those on the other side of the pond feel about Green?
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The fights are quite boring. The in game rewards are essentially nothing. The only thing to be gained is the ability to say "I did x" and whatever inner sense of accomplishment you may feel.
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Yet you need Physical Perfection?
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Quote:You must have had an unfortunate cardI was so pumped earlier. I happened to find myself a dreadful PuG of four. Level ten, doing some missions in Kings.
I hate to say it, but the Bingo card was way above them. I was so pleased I might actually have a chance at doing okay at Bingo, but they were the type of bad that asks 'wher are u guys' every time we enter/leave a mission/zone. We had a suicidal blaster, lots of dreadful typing, and despite my friendly attempts to help, a team pretty much entirely incapable of using the nav system or team window. One guy kept asking me, personally, for a tp, even though I told him last time that I didn't have it, and our controller would run wildly into rooms, waiting about twenty seconds before fighting back. The defender on the other hand kept asking me what power I'd just used, and then would sometimes ask where I had bought it.
I only got two squares, which after that team seems impossible. I'd have loved to have a pure empath rocking the aura, a suicidal scrapper, all lead by a slow-travelling peacebringer who insisted we needed a Granite. But we're just not all that lucky.Those all fit... except the last one.
'How do I get there' "they were the type of bad that asks 'wher are u guys' every time we enter/leave a mission/zone" "a team pretty much entirely incapable of using the nav system or team window"
Blaster area rug "suicidal blaster"
'im drnk' possibly or 'y u did it "lots of dreadful typing"
'TP pls' "One guy kept asking me, personally, for a tp, even though I told him last time that I didn't have it"
Wanders off and dies "our controller would run wildly into rooms, waiting about twenty seconds before fighting back"
Sadly we don't have a square for this one: "The defender on the other hand kept asking me what power I'd just used, and then would sometimes ask where I had bought it." Maybe we need a generic "What the hell is wrong with you" square.
Clebstein, some good suggestions. I think one of two of those might get squeezed in -
Why don't Scrappers nor Tankers get Darkest Night?
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Quote:Currently, and under the previous notoriety system, the numbers of enemies spawned increases with team size. Level has always been set by the mission holder's difficulty settings. Level is not affected by team size now and was not affected under the previous systemActually, yes they did. Not positive if that was changed when the SSK system was introduced, but mission spawn levels and size would scale depending on team size.
Hence the mission padding and painting that went on before SSK'ing was introduced.
Is it currently that way? No idea, haven't been on many 8 man teams to test it lately.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Notoriety
Quote:Heroic Villainous +0 or +1 Challenge Level 1 Bosses downgraded to Lieutenants when solo,
Heroes/Archvillains downgraded to Elite Bosses in teams of 5 or less
Tenacious Malicious +0 or +1 larger spawns Challenge Level 2 Heroes/Archvillains downgraded to Elite Bosses in teams of 4 or less
Rugged Vicious +1 or +2 Challenge Level 3 Heroes/Archvillains downgraded to Elite Bosses in teams of 3 or less
Unyielding Ruthless +1 or +2 larger spawns Challenge Level 4 Heroes/Archvillains downgraded to Elite Bosses in teams of 2 or less
Invincible Relentless +2 or +3 Challenge Level 5 Heroes/Archvillains remain even when solo -
Quote:If this behavior exists it is a bug. Could you take a screenshot of this behavior? I'd like to see the view from the team leader with the mission window open showing the difficulty setting of +2 and showing level 54 foes.In the same mission? No, they don't. Sort of. I'm level 16 and have my mission set to +0/x0. When I enter a mission, the mission's peramiters state every enemy will be the same level. So every enemy is level 16. If I form a 3 man team before starting the mission, the enemies are still level 16. If I were to form a eight man team first, we might enter and find level 18 enemies. Because the mission scaled for team size the enemies are a higher level. After that mission three party members leave. The next mission is also coded to have everything at the same level. We enter the mission, and now the enemies are level 17. In both missions there are more enemies too.
This is why an eight man team of level 50's running missions on invincible use to be able to encounter level 54 enemies in random missions.
*EDIT* Barring any other factors that specifically change an individual mission (meaning rare exceptions, meaning unusual, meaning not normal), enemies should spawn at the level set by the mission holder's difficulty and a level +1 higher than that. So if you are level 50 and at +2, enemies should be 52 and 53. Team size is not a factor in level settings. -
Quote:No. As I attempted to clearly demonstrate...By your math, once I add a second person to the team, each enemy should now be giving more xp. Correct?
Quote:Solo:
...
Per kill = 10,000 Inf gained
Duo:
...
Per kill = 6,250 Inf gained
8 of you:
...
Per kill = 3,125
Also, as others have stated enemies do NOT level up based on team size. -
Quote:City of Heroes does not work in the manner you describe. First, you will receive less experience per kill against the same enemy when on a team as opposed to when solo. Feel free to post pictures and demonstrate otherwise. Second, enemies don't change level based on team size. Level is only affected by difficulty settings.That's just it. Your math assumes just teaming multiplies the reward. That isn't what I've seen. What I've seen is this:
Solo: 10,000 inf per kill
Teamed : 10,000 inf per kill but we kill them faster, thus can defeat more enemies in the same period of time.
Let's say it takes me a minute to kill each boss and get 10k inf per kill. When I team I'm still getting 10k inf per kill, but now we might only be taking 30 seconds to kill each boss. Add a third person, and the boss still gives the same inf/kill. We now take it out in 15 seconds though. Add a fourth person, and now we're starting to fight 3 or 4 of these bosses, but the amount each gives stays the same.
No, wait it doesn't. The bosses are now a level higher due to team size. THAT increases how much they give. -
Quote:Hypothetically:You know, that bit of math seems a tad suspect. I have never gotten more xp/inf from fighting a +4 mob while teamed then I did fighting the same +4 mob solo. Granted, I don't fight +4 mobs too often when solo, but it has happened. If a mob of level X were to give me 100 xp when fighting it solo, fighting the same mob at the same enemy level in a team still gives me 100 xp. The difference is that the team can handle higher level threats, and more of them. While I might be able to handle a +1/x4 mission on my own, forming a team can let me handle a +4/x8 mission. Or we could do that +1/x4 mission and run it faster then I could if soloing.
Solo:
A boss gives 10,000 Inf at +0 when solo. Solo, you can defeat 1 boss per minute. We'll pretend the map is only these bosses.
Per kill = 10,000 Inf gained
Per minute = 10,000 Inf
Duo:
We clone you. You team with yourself. Your clones go in different directions. As a duo, you now defeat 2 bosses per minute. When either you or your clone defeats a boss you receive 10,000 * 1.25 / 2 = 6,250 Inf.
Per kill = 6,250 Inf gained
Per minute = 12,500 Inf (Double above)
8 of you:
We make more clones. You are on a full of you. Your clones all go in different directions. As a team of 8, you now defeat 8 bosses per minute. When either you or any clone defeats a boss you receive 10,000 * 2.5 / 8 = 3,125 Inf.
Per kill = 3,125
Per minute = 25,000 Inf (8 times above)
However, often you work as a team with players going in the same direction. Whether the per minute solo (which above was 10,000) is better or worse than when teamed with 8 others depends on many factors. For many players, though not all, the team of 8 is less effective than solo. Run herostats to find out how it works for you. -
I believe your example of the 8 50s is accurate though I didn't read it too closely.
What's relevant to this discussion is the Team Multiplier. Let's pretend one level 50 Fire/Kin solo farms at a speed of 400,000 Inf per minute. Clone him, team up, assume the two mow down enemies at the same speed, and go two directions and instead of 800,000 per minute (double 400) each receives...
800,000 * team size multiplier / team size.
800,000 * 1.25 (2 players) / 2 = 500,000
The problem is people don't all go the same speed. Often the gap between fast and slow people is so big that one person is more of a burden then a help.
Also, when most people mean "team farm" they mean work together. Surprisingly, working together is often, though not always, less efficient than two people going two different directions. So in our example above, if the two cloned Fire/Kins worked together instead of going two different directions they might each only receive 300k Inf a minute, instead of 400k alone, or 500k teamed and going separate ways.
All of this, obviously, is way too complicated. Get on your character and run herostats. Then get on a team and run herostats. Then you simply get an answer and don't have to do any math or theory. -
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Experien...d_Team_Bonuses
I should have been more specific. By "reward" I only meant Inf and Experience. -
Quote:Yes and no. There are modifiers that exist that increase the reward given by foes based on the team size. The experience rewarded from enemies is divided among team members.Don't you get more Exp when in a large group than alone?
So wouldn't you get more Exp when farming in a group than farming solo?
Basically, it depends on a toon's capabilities solo and a team's capabilities. You've got to run herostats and see which is more efficient. -
tl:dr Get herostats, run the numbers. See which is better for you. I've done the math on this and the answer is "it depends."
Farming for rewards/money mostly depends on item drops. Item drops are maximized from Defeats per minute. Defeats per minute is usually done by playing on a lower difficulty setting such as +0/x8 and blowing through enemy packs like a hurricane.
My Brute, who puts up numbers comparable or perhaps higher than a Fire/Kin controller and every other character I've seen, can achieve 40-45 defeats per minute. If you had 2 of such Brutes, who went in 2 different directions, you'd have 90 defeats per minute. Two such Brutes, who went in the same direction would have less than 90 defeats per minute because one can easily defeat a pack alone and quickly. Often many of one of the Brute's powers would be "wasted" because the partner killed them an instant before.
If your farming goal is money, which is maximized from items, go alone.
Farming for experience is different. The measure you want to use is Inf/minute, more accurately prestige/minute. These numbers rise with more difficulty. You want a good balance of difficulty and ease, roughly where you can still go through packs and don't have any challenge. I find +2 or +3/x8 to be ideal. Bosses or no Bosses depends no the character.
My Brute, who as explained above puts up similar/better numbers than a fire/kin controller, achieves 500k inf/minute at +3/x8. If you had two such Brutes, in two different directions you'd achieve 1,000 Inf/minute (not really based on team size changes, but essentially you are getting exactly twice the speed). However, pairing my Brute with a Fire/Kin Corruptor who knows how to deal damage as well achieves speeds HIGHER than 1,000 Inf/minute, in the 1,300 range. Thus, for experience/power leveling team farming is better under the right circumstances.
I ran the same Brute + Cor duo for drops and the added damage from the Corr going the same way doesn't really help the Brute. We didn't break 90 defeats/minute working together.
If you are farming to powerlevel/gain experience some duos can be better -
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Just FYI for people. I'm sending the original poster private messages and interrogating him so I can steal his secret knowledge -- I mean find his personal playstyle. I think I'll be able to get him some information to help him kick some booty and I'll ask here if I think one of you might be better at answering something specific than I
Also... wow... I need to write some guides for that site! -
Sweet link. That picture is exactly what I was looking for.
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I'm planning an odd small team. We're trying to figure out our potential against Reichsman.
I'm interested in his Hit Points and his Regen %s. The exact numbers would be ideal if they are possible. I found "Finally, Reichsman's hit points are apparently ten times the amount normal Archvillains get, in the 200,000+ range. Heroes and Villains may need to prepare themselves for a long fight" here at paragonwiki. I couldn't find his information of City of Data/Red Tomax.
If anyone knows the exact #s I would be most appreciative. Perhaps you can pick them up next time you run a Reichsman TF of some kind. Also, are the HP and Regen %s the same if he is set to +1, +2, +3 or +4? I am aware I would need to make adjustments based on the purple batch/buffs/debuffs for higher level Reichsman. I'm unsure if his HPs or the Regen % changes and if they do is there a way I can get those two numbers as well?
I'm not interested in running one of those TFs and power analyzing him. -
Quote:Summary: Forumites can determine this isn't worth an investment without reading the guide because:I notice that all of you guys responding are long-tine CoH veterans. I certainly respect your knowledge of the game, but I wonder if you really grasp my perspective on the game.
As I mentioned, though I've been playing for a few years (since March 2007, off and on), I'm only on a few days a month at best. I've missed whole months a couple of times, even when paying for the account. In that time I've started a couple of templates from the forum, but each time they wound up obsolete before I got halfway through -- I've only been able to grow toons quickly by having higher-level players get together and power-level me.
So if there is a streamlined guide of where to go and what to do from 1-50 to efficiently grow a toon up, especially solo, that would be very helpful to me. I might actually get a second character to level 50 someday.
Making Inf on the market is one of the least interesting points. Being offline for weeks at a time or longer allows lots of bids to come in, so I do pretty well on that front for the time invested. Too bad Inf can't buy XP... but at least I can buy a purple once in awhile.
As mentioned, I've tried following templates from the forum here, and not had great results. If there is a guide that actually pairs templates with tailored rapid-leveling tactics, I would consider that worth money. And I have looked -- people have not been putting that much work in for nothing.
The rest of the bullet points do suggest material that is available on the Wiki, and which may not be of any practical use. Presentation could make a difference, though.
All of which is why I'm looking for someone who has actually seen the guide to clarify it's contents.
1) an intelligent player can easily figure out these things on their own,
2) you clearly are an intelligent person,
3) What the "best" thing to do likely depends on many factors,
4) Personal preference means some players may like to take alternate actions, and
5) Individually tailored guides and help can be obtained for free if you know the right people to ask... forumites here can find the right people to ask for you.
6) Your expectations may set a bar that is too high for a non-individually tailored guide
1) an intelligent player can easily figure out these things on their own
The game is not that hard. As our favorite younger member, Sister Flame, states, "Just mash 1-2-3-4 until they are all defeated." That's pretty much the gist of the game. Run at the bad guys, mash the buttons, beat the missions.
2) you clearly are an intelligent person,
I'm not being facetious here. You wrote legible sentences that were logical, reasonable, and rational. Further, you questioned your own thoughts and others with rational questions and awaited answered instead of saying things like "I've got 30 Vet badges so I'm right."
3) What the "best" thing to do likely depends on many factors,
These factors include what character you are playing, what powersets you have, and how capable you are with certain powers. Whether you are trying to obtain a specific type of recipe, archetype tickets, experience, badges, influence or other also is an important factor. The best way to get whichever of the 5 or 7 rewards types I mentioned varies greatly depending on the initial faactors of level, archetype and capability.
4) Personal preference means some players may like to take alternate actions, and
The "what is best" to many of the level/reward combinations above is often quite boring, tedious or otherwise unfun to many players. For example, for Warshades and Peacebrings, once you get Nova form its probably best to just plsy solo, hover over hazard zone spawns out of the enemy's range and aoe the big packs. Some find that rather tedious and boring for 10 levels. However, that's probably the fastest way to get from level 6 to 16 for a Peacebringer or Warshade. Also, you may be interested in teaming more than soloing, or soloing a specific type of enemy isn't fun for you, also implementing a specific strategy may not be fun for you. What you may or may not want to do should be taken into account.
5) Individually tailored guides and help can be obtained for free if you know the right people to ask... forumites here can find the right people to ask for you.
So we have 3 things... your game aspects (level, archetype, capabilities), the rewards you want (inf, exp, items, badges), and your preferences (whats fun)... that's so many possible combinations that have so many different answers of "best" that it is virtually impossible that 1 book has the right answer for you.
Fortunately, if you allow a bunch of forumites to ask you a bunch of questions on what you do, what you want, and how you play, we can likely find someone who is just like you -- but has already traveled down the road and can tell you what is best specifically for you. Forumites likely don't know the answer to what you want. However, they know where to find the answer or the person to ask who can find it. Ask here, get something right for you, and get it free and with a personal touch.
6) Your expectations may set a bar that is too high for a non-individually tailored guide
You may be expecting the guide to get you to level 50 in 1 week with minimal effort and playtime. You may be expecting to get your mind blown away with his awesome information that you never thought of. I don't know what your expectations are. I believe, solely based on reading what you have written, that you likely figured out some pretty effective ways of doing things that are fairly close to what any guides will tell you. I think you'll see some improvements by the tips either the book or better yet someone here can offer you. However, I cannot fathom you being blown away and "yes, I'm so much better now" by reading the book. I think you probably got 9 out of 10 things figured out on your own and a person who's a great match for you can answer the 1 out of 10 things without you having to read the other 90% of stuff you already know.
If you want forumites here to try and help you get the best out of your game let us ask you a few questions.
The questions will be stuff like:
What are you trying to accomplish? Experience, fun, items, influence, badges?
What type of guy are you playing? Archetype, level, powersets, build
Do you want a new type of guy?
What style of play do you like? Solo, team, fast paced, area of effect, big damage, control, cool effects, lots of button pressing etc.
How often do you play?
etc. -
I believe that at one point in time dark/elec was quite popular and was/is known as "The Buzzsaw". Dark/Elec will be very effective at single targets.
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The free weekend worked better than I expected. I moved over 10 Billion Influence to Infamy. Thanks everyone. In total I have moved over 60 Billion Inf.
I'm changing my rates and going for volume. 5% either direction
Smurphy's Inf Exchange Rates:
Your Influence --> 95% my Infamy
Your Infamy --> 95% my Influence
100 Influence you --> 95 Infamy me.
100 Infamy you --> 95 Influence me. -
So we should blame whoever tells Castle to keep turning it off and on instead of telling the UI team to "add Mystic Fortune to the Prompt section."
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Quote:You are free to play it as you like but our intention was "one teaming session". If you were invited to a pick up group (pug), and stayed with that group for 4 or 5 missions or so we'd consider that ideal for "One game of Bad Team Bingo." Another rough estimation of "One game of Bad Team Bingo" would be the time commitment for a Task Force. Maybe 1 to 2 hours is a good time is a good guideline. You are free to set your own game rules, of course, but we expect 1-2 hours, a TF, or teaming with the same group for a while -- ish -- sorta -- in that ballpark.I love this. I think it'll always just be 'PuG bingo' in my head to justify all the 'is that actually bad teaming?' arguments, but I do have a question;
If we're actually playing this as a game, (which I'd love to), does each card last one playing session, one team, or as long as we need? I do like a challenge, but I don't want to cripple myself by making it just too hard.
Edit!: is "y u did it" meant to represent someone not understanding and constantly asking about something, or just bad grammar alone?
As stated in the first post achieving a BINGO! is a rare and noble achievement worthy of epic bragging. Four and even three in a rows also earn you much respect. Also, if a teammates satisfies a square in an amazing way that is so obviously "Yeah, you earned me a Bad Team Bingo Square there" way you are free to shout out "BINGO" and come brag about the epicness here. Just make sure you differentiate that you merely satisfied a square in an awesome way and didn't achieve the 5 in a row BINGO.
I'll give an example of a shout out worthy occurrence and explain "y u did it" at the same timeChriffer, once, had a teammate who always team chatted in text message style. After a teammate did something ludicrous, suicidal and "bad" the text message chatter said "y u did it". Chriffer and I found that outrageously amusing. The square was one of our favorites from the original Bad Team Bingo. Yesterday, while making up the new version, we intended to cut "y u did it". However, a Bad Team Bingo regular mentioned that just recently he was on a team and someone said, exactly, "y u did it" and it was the highlight of their CoH experience. If someone says "y u did it" exactly, and you have it on your card, that's worthy of an immediate shout out of "BINGO". The "spirit of the square" can be satisfied by a teammate using obvious text message style chat in team talk.
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Quote:The Going Rouge square is earned when a teammate misspells "Going Rogue." The square "Going Rouge" is simply the most common misspelling. Click "Search" at the top, click "Advanced Search", Search thread titles only, and type in "Rouge." This Link may do all that for you.Couple minor typos
Going Rouge - don't like red, eh?
I'm drnk - mee to
Funny stuff - thanks for posting
"I'm drnk" square simply represents any intoxicated teammate statements.
Quote:I don't think Smurphy's talking about throwing yourself into a crowd with your team right behind you, that's simply aggressive playing. He's talking about players who jump in and get themselves killed while the team is still loading into the map, or have all gone afk. With bonus points for jumping into a crowd of purples, find themselves approaching death from the alpha alone, then run back past the group and get everyone else killed instead.
*EDIT* Also, I believe when Kheldarn mentions that they believe they fall under "Suicidal Scrapper" that they fit into this description and run into packs and die. Sounds like me.