Smiling_Joe

My experience has been the opposite. Solo and small teams my kheldians really shine. By the time there are eight people on the team, however, they've surpassed their peak performance. Which is great. It only takes five or six team members to be capping either your damage or resistance, and at eight team members you can just about cap both.

So what's the problem? It isn't needed. With the current game, - and especially the late game - once you pass six team members all the roles are filled. No archetype has ever been strictly needed, but the changes made to the game these past few issues have given just about every archetype unprecedented flexibility.

Like it or not, Kheldians cap their performance far sooner than a full team. That cap (performance cap, not hard/soft caps) isn't what I would call low by any stretch, but it isn't high enough, versatile enough or (where survivability is concerned) even necessary on leagues and large teams without some help in side-stepping that cap.

What do I mean by that? Well, as far as survivability is concerned, both Warshades and Peacebringers are as survivable - if not more survivable - than any other archetype out there (barring maybe tankers). On large teams and leagues, however, there's more than enough buffs and healing to go around. All that survivability is superfluous.

Now let's talk about Warshades, because otherwise I know I'm gonna get hammered on this. Counting only damage that originates from the warshade itself, Warshades do respectable damage. But not epic damage, mainly because it's limited by the damage cap and the kheldian damage modifiers. HOWEVER, warshades can side-step that limitation through the use of extracted essences. Because these pets put out damage independantly of the warshade, they increase a warshade's damage by increasing the number of simultaneous attacks (obviously) and can push a warshade's performance well past the peak.

Peacebringers get... well, let's not go into my continuing beef with Photon Seekers. I've said enough about them, and they're not going to change. Suffice to say that they don't - even in their current form - do enough to help Peacebringers side-step anything to any great degree. In fact, the knockback would actually do more harm than good if the radius was more and the ai was better.

TL/DR version: In my experience both my warshades and my peacebringers shine solo and on small teams. My warshade shines on large teams and leagues due mainly to the added damage from multiple extracted essences. My peacebringer with photon seekers... not so much.

I didn't say warshades are underpowered, did I? I don't think I did.

I did say that there's nothing kheldians can do that can't be equaled or surpassed by virtually every other archetype in the game, but I would never call that underpowered, for exactly the reasons you've given. However, I'll admit the statement is a bit on the broad side.

You say warshades aren't underpowered, and I categorically endorse that statement. Fine. We'll just have to agree to agree.

AGAIN. Photon Seekers IS NOT A CRASHLESS NUKE.

Unchained Essence is a level 26 power. The fact that a level 32 pet is often compared with it doesn't necessarily speak well for Photon Seekers, does it?


I'm not talking about power sets in a vaccum. Staff Fighting on its own boasts quite a bit of versatility. You can have an alpha slot's worth of endurance reduction, a rage's worth of a damage boost, or recharge on par with SR's Quickness (or nearly, I forget the exact number).

Which in and of itself isn't all that powerful. But archetypes with access to staff fighting also have access to a mitigation set that - depending on the set chosen - can use staff fighting to mitigate or augment the cost of its benefits. My sf/da brute can run all of his toggles indefinitely thanks to form of the soul, putting up resistance numbers that are VERY competitive with dwarf form, all the while increasing its own melee defense with guarded spin. Thanks to the PPP's I even have a ranged attack chain AND a single target chain that still competes with my PB chain.

And if I need a little more damage? I can switch to form of the body on the fly. Hit with a slow? Form of the mind can help with that. And I'm not even taking into account the benefits of stacking form mastery.

But the set that really raised my eyebrows is Bio Armor. It's really too soon to say to what extent it's versatile, but any armor power that carries: Maximum HP, Nearly Infinite Endurance, Absorption, Regen, Healing AND debuffs regen, resistance and damage can be combined with oh, say staff fighting for a real competitor in the versatility field.

My point is that - while these two sets in a vaccum do not invalidate the versatility of an entire archetype, they are indicative of a game environment that is valuing kheldian versatility less and less. I haven't even touched on things like incarnate powers.

And I never said these sets (and sets like them) were replacing the versatility kheldians enjoy. I said they were chipping away at it. If the design philosophy behind those sets is any indication of things to come, then versatility is coming to archetypes in general, and I gotta think that if - and it's a big "if" - kheldians are held back in some areas to balance their versatility, then the delay on the nuke changes *might* indicate that the price we're paying for that versatility could get looked at.

Thinking like this is why Peacebringers can't have nice stuff. Photon Seekers are NOT a nuke. They're a pet. Let me say it again for emphasis. THEY. ARE. A. PET.

If the best use you get out of them is to use them as though they were a power in a completely different class then it's a sure indication that something is wrong with Photon Seekers, not a consolation prize for why they don't function properly as a @#$@# pet power.


Eh. Like I said, the crash - or the absence of a crash - isn't what I was concerned with in the OP - the reduced recharge was what had me drooling. And may still have me drooling, when/if we get it.

Game balance? Balanced against what? What is it that Kheldians - and specifically Peacebringers - do that isn't done equally as well or better by nearly every other archetype in the game?

Because our role as the "versatile archetype" is gradually being chipped away by powersets like Bio Armor and Staff Fighting.

No, I don't think balance is the issue. I'm gonna have to agree with the "future changes are coming so they want to hold off until those changes can be implemented" argument.

.....right. Another post flew right over my head. I wondered what that shadow was.

You're respeccing out of your warshade build?

What will you respec into?



I'd love to see that build too. Might inspire me to IO out Nova Bedouin.

This.

Especially with Dark Armor.

TBH, THB (Too lazy to type FTW!) I was more excited about the reduced recharge that would have gone along with the removal of the crash.

You're so mean.

Have a link?

I wouldn't have suggested it had I not tried it. In fact, it's the possibility for multi-form attack chains that got me to play my Peacebringer again. Granted, the timing can be a little tricky - trying to change form in the middle of an animation will still result in a bit of tray skulduggery, but a second tap on the key usually remedies the situation.

But then that sort of goes along with what passes for my playstyle, so it's likely that you (and many other Kheld drivers) may not be as enchanted with it as I am.

So drop to human, fire off your single target blasts and jump back to nova. (Nearly) instant form shifting made that possible.

If you bind a "powexec_name combat flight" with your human form bind, you won't even drop out of the air.

As a whole Kheldians are fine. Compared to Warshades Peacebringers are slightly underperforming. Within the archetype the Dwarf and Nova forms are underperforming compared to human form.

But I agree. At this point they probably are what they are.

If baking in more damage to nova form's attacks will make them recharge longer (Although quite frankly I can't see that as THAT big of a deal with instant form shifting), then give nova form a momentum-like mechanic that affects recharge. So long as one attack hits, the following attacks get a non-stacking recharge buff that is roughly equal to the amount by which the recharge was increased.

But there again, the endurance usage would be increased, wouldn't it? But then you can slot endmod enhancements into nova form, and every IO set you could slot into the attacks would come with end reduction. OR you could slot tohit into nova and replace that accuracy in each attack with an end reducer. OR you could slot a performance shifter proc.

Point is you've got slotting options in nova to compensate for a great many things. Would it fully compensate? No. No solution is going to be perfect. But it beats what we have now.

Besides: since the enhancement slotting on powers with 40% more base damage would be more effective than the current state of enhancing nova attacks as they are and THEN adding a 40% damage buff, it would actually be a direct damage buff to those attacks. Why shouldn't we pay for it? Small price if you ask me.

EDIT - and even if nothing at all is done to compensate for the consequences of baking the damage buff directly into the attacks, Nova remains a viable option for form-shifters thanks to instant shifting filling in the attack chain gaps, and can be a better asset for those willing to invest the slots to bring recharge/end use down.

EDIT EDIT - and for the record to the OP - Baking the nova damage boost into the base damage of the attacks is one of only two things I think Kheldians really need. The other is psionic resistance in white dwarf.

THE TRIPLE EDIT OF AN ADDLED MIND - for anyone who doesn't know, damage boosts that come from enhancements, build up powers and the nova form's inherent boost only affect the BASE damage of a power. Currently, for example, Bright Nova Blast does 66.73 points of damage. Enhanced it would do 95% more, right? Right. NOW add a 40% damage boost and you'll get.... 40% of 66.73 added. The total damage output would - under the current conditions - result in 132.8 points of damage. Bake that 40% nova boost into the power's base damage and you've got a damage output of 182.17 points of damage. Would that be worth a gap or two in your attack chain? Hell it's probably the reason why Arbiter Hawk will never, ever make the change.

THE "YOU KNOW WHAT? I SHOULD JUST DELETE THIS POST AND REWRITE IT AFTER A CUP OF COFFEE!" FOURTH EDIT: It wouldn't have to be a straight 40% damage boost baked in to the base damage. Since it would result in such a big direct damage buff, then a lesser amount could be more balanced. And no, I don't know why I keep using the words "Baked in." Freudian slip of a half-baked brain, I suppose. Back to my coffee.

EDITED A FIFTH TIME TO MAKE THE EDITS MAKE SENSE: Coffee ftw.