Smiling_Joe
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Yes. Everything Nericus said is quite true. I've had performance shifter procs in my forms and stamina for a while now and can confirm that they will not only work, but both stamina and the active form will have separate chances to proc. (seen it in the combat logs)Originally Posted by Socorro
Can someone confirm this one way or the other; I may need to do another respec
The proc in light form was an oversight on my part when initially making the build. I knew better than that. Since LF is a click, you only get one chance per activation. -
Quote:Ooh. Good suggestion. I might try and get a little recharge into RS. I think I have a couple of slots to play with...Originally Posted by Microcosm
Joe, what's your attack chain?
As it is you can run RS>GB>GE. Or if you grab reactive and a little more recharge in RS, you can swap glinting eye for gleaming bolt and get a touch more dps.
Looking at you Performance Shifter proc in Light Form. -
Quote:It's not a matter of the effectiveness of the changes. It's a matter of adjusting my playstyle to accomodate them.Originally Posted by Orivon
I'm surprised you feel this way. My build usually runs +2/x4 on live and on Beta Test and my i21 update he can run +4/x8 fairly easily (except for psi damage of course). Perma Light form in forms really makes Nova form tankable
Ran an Dr. Khan TF and tanked Reichman in Nova haha so awesome!
Which doesn't speak poorly of the changes. It's just that my playstyle revolved around Light Form in its current incarnation so much that I actually had that much trouble on test.
Maybe that doesn't say much for my playstyle, but it's worked for four years of Kheld driving.
But playstyles can change, and that's what the new build is about.
In my experience the difference between 83% resistance and 85% resistance has been big. It's likely just my perception (which means it isn't reasonable or logical), but that extra resistance slot in Light Form gives me a comfort zone that lets me keep my mind on the fight and not my health bar.Quote:Looking at your build at quick glance I thought I would make a small suggestion. I would only slot Light Form at most with 4 slots. On test I was slotting two recharge two res. Cause both forms offer res and with two Res IOs it's almost capped res anyway.
::shrug:: Can't blame the build for a fault in me.
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Quote:OH, good catch! Think I'll move that slot over to Glowing Touch. I've found more use for that one lately. Thanks!Originally Posted by Microcosm
I think that +end proc in lightform will only have a chance when you initially click it since it isn't a toggle, but I'm not completely sure there.
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Quote:na - it just means I forgot to set everything to 50. I'm still working on the other two builds. One is human only and takes the shields and the other is Plasma's Gold Standard SO Build, which I generally use for exemping really lowOriginally Posted by Microcosm
It looks like you plan to exemp, since you've got a bunch of lvl 35 IO's. But if you do exemp, aren't you going to want the shields?
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The pragmatist in my head is advising me to give up trying to change anyone's mind. I'm convinced that it's too late for any further changes to be made before this goes live, and it's time to adjust my playstyle and build accordingly.
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If you can't beat'em, join'em. After Freedom launches, many of the things I enjoyed about my Peacebringer will be going away. On live, my current build solos +1 x8 with ease. On test, that same build doesn't last five minutes.
SOOOOO a change is in order, both in my playstyle and in my build. Keep your fingers crossed - I'm not the most flexible guy.
:auses for the inevitable "that's what she said" or "I heard that about you" joke::
At any rate, if you good squids/lobsters wouldn't mind, here's the tentative build I've come up with for this new leaf I'm about to turn over:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Brightstorm Post I-21: Level 50 Natural Peacebringer
Primary Power Set: Luminous Blast
Secondary Power Set: Luminous Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
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Level 1: Glinting Eye
(A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
(31) Decimation - Chance of Build Up
(45) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
(46) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage
Level 1: Incandescence
(A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
Level 2: Gleaming Blast
(A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
(3) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
(5) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(39) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
Level 4: Essence Boost
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(5) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(7) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(7) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(23) Doctored Wounds - Heal
Level 6: Bright Nova
(A) Rectified Reticle - Increased Perception
Level 8: Radiant Strike
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(9) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(9) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
(13) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 10: Hasten
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(11) Recharge Reduction IO
(15) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 12: Inner Light
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(19) Recharge Reduction IO
(40) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 14: Stealth
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 16: Invisibility
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 18: Incandescent Strike
(A) Accuracy IO
(21) HamiO:Peroxisome Exposure
(21) HamiO:Peroxisome Exposure
(23) HamiO:Peroxisome Exposure
Level 20: White Dwarf
(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 22: Reform Essence
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(25) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(25) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(27) Doctored Wounds - Endurance/Recharge
(27) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
Level 24: Conserve Energy
(A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 26: Solar Flare
(A) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage
(29) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
(31) Damage Increase IO
(43) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 28: Proton Scatter
(A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(29) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
(31) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
(33) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
(33) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
Level 30: Luminous Detonation
(A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(33) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
(34) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
(34) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
(40) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
Level 32: Photon Seekers
(A) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Recharge
(34) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage
(36) Call to Arms - Damage/Endurance
(36) Call to Arms - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(36) Call to Arms - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
Level 35: Dawn Strike
(A) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(39) Obliteration - Damage
Level 38: Light Form
(A) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge
(39) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Recharge
(40) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(46) Resist Damage IO
(46) Resist Damage IO
(50) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 41: Grant Invisibility
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 44: Maneuvers
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 47: Glowing Touch
(A) Healing IO
Level 49: Restore Essence
(A) Empty
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
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Level 1: Brawl
(A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
(A) Empty
Level 1: Energy Flight
(A) Empty
Level 2: Rest
(A) Empty
Level 10: Combat Flight
(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 2: Swift
(A) Empty
Level 2: Hurdle
(A) Empty
Level 2: Health
(A) Healing IO
Level 2: Stamina
(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(50) Performance Shifter - EndMod
Level 1: Cosmic Balance
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Level 1: Bright Nova Bolt
(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
(11) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
(43) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
(45) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 1: Bright Nova Blast
(A) Thunderstrike - Accuracy/Damage
(15) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
(43) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
(45) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 1: Bright Nova Scatter
(A) Air Burst - Accuracy/Damage
(17) Air Burst - Damage/Endurance
(17) Air Burst - Damage/Recharge
(42) Air Burst - Damage/Range
Level 1: Bright Nova Detonation
(A) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(13) Positron's Blast - Accuracy/Damage
(19) Positron's Blast - Damage/Endurance
(42) Positron's Blast - Damage/Recharge
(42) Positron's Blast - Damage/Range
Level 1: White Dwarf Strike
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
Level 1: White Dwarf Smite
(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
Level 1: White Dwarf Flare
(A) Multi Strike - Accuracy/Damage
Level 1: White Dwarf Sublimation
(A) Doctored Wounds - Heal
(48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance
(48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(48) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge
(50) Doctored Wounds - Recharge
Level 1: White Dwarf Step
(A) Empty
Level 1: White Dwarf Antagonize
(A) Empty
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Against my better judgement, I stuck with Triform with the hope that I can still get some pretty good utility out of Nova (not to mention some set bonuses). Dwarf, on the other hand, has been stripped of all its slots and is being used for the heal (and the set bonus) and as a last line of defense against heavy mezzing spawns.
With the spiritual T4 alpha (which I'll be picking up in five shards to replace my T4 Musculature), I'll have perma hasten and will be (briefly) stacking Inner Light and Light Form. Even without the shields I should have capped resistances to everything but psi.
As far as cost goes, I have many of the IO's used here already in my current build, including all HO's (I'll actually be stripping some out), all five LoTG's, Achilles' Heel procs, Steadfast unique, yadda yadda, so the cost will be fairly minimal.
I don't expect I'll be using dwarf form much at all (in stark contrast to my current playstyle) and will probably forfeit my role as off-tank on teams I frequent as a result.
Right now it's tentative - any suggestions? -
Quote:Nor should you have to, and my remark was not directed at you in the least.Originally Posted by Fuzun
And my ready answer is that my PB's build is based around 40+ Hamidon Enhancers. Even with the Enhancer poppers, it would take a lot of resources to strip them all out. Besides I like the build, I'm not going to change it.
These changes pretty much ignore any playstyle that doesn't rely on human-centric high recharge IO builds, they ignore the rapid decline in relative performance that Peacebringers experience starting at level 26.
Basically, we're being told that we have to conform to a distinctly narrower range of playstyles if we want to benefit from these changes. -
Quote:The ready answer seems to be: "What are you whining about? With IO's you can make it PERMA!"Originally Posted by Fuzun
The Light Form change worries me. The loss of 4/5ths of the Mezz Protection worries me the most. It loses it's OH SH** usability. And given I actually haven't tested the change out yet, I'm worried about my solo play ability specifically right Elite Bosses. Light Form w/ is a staple for fight Elite Bosses solo. It's a rare EB that my PB can take down in under 1:30. Now with 1:30 min up time and 1:00 min downtime. My PB defeating a EB now seems very doubtful. Surviving 60 secs vs an EB waiting for Light Form to be recharge.
It's as if everything else in the game is balanced around SO's EXCEPT for Peacebringers. -
Quote:Heh. And when I see a Dark Mistress or a Rikti Chief Soldier carrying a quantum rifle, I just LAUGH and laugh.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Even back when Quantums and Voids did unresistable damage and really could hurt Kheldians a lot, it was more than possible to fight and defeat them at low levels. Now, they're even easier to deal with. Just strike them first and hard, and you have most of the battle won.
My main gripe with Quantums and Voids, but especially Cysts, is that they frequently spawn where they should not. I should not see a Cyst on the Apex or Tin Mage TF, and I certainly should not see one "ambushing" with Director 11, as I once did on my Peacebringer. It fights against all the lore concerning the Cysts, not to mention most of the other groups in the game. "We're going to put a transport device with Nictus in their most fragile state with a group dedicated to controlling metahuman threats."
Rather than being interesting flavor, they're just about as often confusing and nonsensical for where they show up. I would have rather seen these mobs only be included in certain special missions, like the Kheldian story arcs, the ITF, etc., rather than how we see them now. If the tech could be improved to do it in a different way and better, I would be fine with that, but I would hazard to guess it is not easy, or would have been done a long time ago.
Chief Soldier's Inetlligence: Low
Quantum Gun: Inferior to Rikti Sword -
Quote:The only reason for comparing Peacebringers to Warshades is that balancing a shapeshifting archetype is so difficult that it's easier to make suggestions in the context of another shapeshifting archetype.Originally Posted by CarminaGadelica
I think the comparison to Warshades is simply to show how far behind Peacebringers are, but that's a good point. I think I implied it earlier in this thread, but I care far less that PB's and WS's be equal than wanting PB's to fill a role - any role - well. To be a Jack of All Trades, then one would not expect a PB to be better than another AT at what that AT does, but then it must be significantly better at some other role that makes the PB worth having around.
With Warshades, they got it right. No one wants to turn Peacebringers into Warshades by any stretch (although you could have fooled me with the changes in beta) but so long as it's done in the context of asking for comparable levels of performance in what Peacebringers currently do then I don't see anything wrong with it.
For example, asking that Peacebringers be able to stack stuns on entire spawns to the level that Warshades can isn't necessarily going to get you anywhere, but asking for comparable levels of team support might be more in line with what Peacebringers can contribute and still be distinct.
But that's just an example. The point is that there is nothing wrong with using a measuring stick. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Leese
Little, hypothetical question for the thread.
A new player comes up to you. They're interested in buying access to Peacebringers and/or Warshades in the Store, and want to know if you think it's worth it.
Would you advise them to spend their money on unlocking Peacebringers and/or Warshades?
If this question were about Controllers, or Masterminds I would say yes, no question. Warshades and VEATs, I don't have enough experience on, but I wouldn't advise against it.
Peacebringers... I don't know. I wouldn't want to say "don't bother," I like my PB, but any answer I give would have to be heavily qualified.
My honest answer: It depends on what you want to do, and how you want to do it. If you're into reflex-intensive hi-octane combat with an archetype that can change its role on the fly as fast as a battle tide can turn, and then feast on the corpses of its enemies when it's over, then I'd recommend buying a Warshade any day.
And if you're into self-reliance and amazing survival in the face of everything except psi and toxic damage, and don't want to have to be constantly shifting forms (but still want the option) then you might enjoy Peacebringers. -
Quote:What's really sad is that Kheldians have three forms and only merited placement in two categories. What about human form?Originally Posted by Tabcef
the categories peacebringers fall under in the new power selection screen are ranged damage and tanking. they don't do any of these effectively. in fact i'm pretty sure these placements are based entirely on the existence of the now mostly worthless forms (in terms of hassle and effectiveness vs. staying in humanform) so that's pretty funny in it's own right too.
Sadly, I think those question marks are there because they knew we'd be up in tentacles about what the actual numbers would have been. -
Quote:I think if I were Arbiter Hawk, I'd rather have dental surgery than post anything else about Kheldians. And I don't blame him. I'm trying really hard to not read too much into the tone of the one post of his that Pilgrim quoted, but I'm afraid I'm not doing a very good job.Originally Posted by Zenyth
So am I glad we got a buff? Definitely, thank you Arbiter Hawk. Just don't run off yet, we've got other problems that could still use some attention. You might also talk to us a little more so we can all be on the same page for this. Also would let us know you ARE still keeping an eye on us...so...yeah...talk to us please.
None of us are, TBH. But it's damned discouraging to see our favorite archetype being made better at what it was already good at at the expense of the changes it really needed. -
Quote:We got a buff - and it's a good buff - but we got the wrong buff. We didn't have much of a problem with survivability before this change, and the new light form isn't better - it's just different. Peacebringers never needed it to be "permable" to be counted as one of the most durable archetypes in the game, and quite frankly I'm not terribly happy with the shortened duration.Originally Posted by IronAlex
kheldians are never happy.. we got a freaking buff...
ws and pb are not the same..
one is good for lots of targets.. one is good for single harder targets.. end of story.. we got a buff.. and a good one at that.. without the devs taking something away.. jeesh..
or have you guys forgoten i13 when they fixed the perma dom prob but nerfed everything else in pvp..
usually when the devs give buffs they take something away to compensate.. ..
a buff with no consequences = great..
and later other issues maybe we can see more changes.. but for now yeh.. just cool out .. grab a beer and just enjoy..
And we DID lose something. There were those of us who liked light form in its former incarnation - not only because of the costume shift. We lost the duration and probably the most unique animation in the game, but more importantly (IMO) they removed the ability to attack on the run. It was one of the best things about Light Form, and I will miss it even more than the costume swap. When my team needed a damage dealer who couldn't be killed, Light Form delivered. Well, unless there were Dark Ring Mistresses, Master Illusionists, Rikti Magi, Tarantula Queens... wait, what was I saying? Oh, right: Light Form delivered. I could count on it for several spawns, or a double or even triple aggro. Now? I'm jumping out and healing before we're halfway through the crisis, and -most importantly - I have nowhere near the combat mobility that I had before.
My problem with the duration will be fixed once I've adjusted my build to make it perma, but I will always miss the non-rooting attacks that Arbiter Hawk called a bug. (which makes me wonder if Light Form would have been changed at all were they not fixing yet another bug that benefited Kheldians).
Some of us liked the footstomp animations - the cool stomp animations (and the cool light form shift) were what made me choose peacebringers in the beginning. Personally I never gave a damn that you couldn't use them from the air. How hard was it to turn off flight or lead out with a punch after the dwarf teleported? IMO we lost out there, too.
The game's not ALL about numbers, ya know.
But what did we get in return that we really wanted? A mediocre buff to our damage that gave us a whopping 16 dps over what we already did, and a shortened recharge to Photon Seekers..
But I'm sure the changes are all that and a bag of chips for someone who pvp's on a human-form Peacebringer.
And if we're trying to push more through now, it's probably due to Hawk's statement that "we're pretty happy with where Peacebringers are sitting now."
In other words, they're DONE making changes to Peacebringers. The changes we have are what we're going to have on live, and I'm betting it's going to be a very long time - if ever - before anything further is done. -
Quote:My problem with the light form change isn't that some sort of change wasn't needed, and isn't that it's too strong. My problem with it is that it was made without considering what it did to the forms, and that no further changes to the forms are likely to be forthcoming. Judging by the tone of Arbiter Hawk's post that you quoted, they're pretty happy with Peacebringers as they are.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
We've talked about that in the beta forums as well. The light form change was needed, as the old version wasn't all that great and was worse than Eclipse in comparison. And it's still only mag 3 protection in Light form, so more than one stacking of a mez type is going to get you, which can't be said of Dwarf.
Really? Because it had a 1.5 accuracy bonus before it was auto-hit. Adding a single accuracy SO gave it enough accuracy to land even under some of the worst debuffs in the game.Quote:Dwarf does need improving, but Light Form is not the problem. The auto-hit taunt is going to be a help to make it a more effective tanking power, bu it still needs some status resistance (-end, -slow) to make it work.
Changing it to auto-hit was little more than a token.
And I've never really had a problem with -end and -slow on dwarf, so I've never relied on them. I have conserve power and Dwarf's own +recovery for -end and I've always had hasten for -rech (Never mind the fact that we'll have access to Burnout when Freedom launches) and White Dwarf Step for -slow. I'm not sure why people are clamoring for those changes over psi/toxic resists, but whatever.
I've never thought dwarf was a trap. The problems dwarf form encounters are easily mitigated with a little forethought and skill, but the limitations imposed upon it are a different story. They're there for a reason, but that reason is only valid if the limitations imposed on the other forms are observed. IMHO the limitations of human form have been broken without a whole lot of consideration towards the forms, so I wouldn't say no to anything that would improve dwarf and nova. -
Quote:Well, since even the current Light Form doesn't give resistance to psionic and toxic damage, I don't think it's too much to ask. White dwarf wouldn't be able to cap psionic and toxic resistance outside of cosmic balance, even with light form up.Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Wouldn't that leave us where we are now with an Inherent that wastes a lot of +Resistance in Human and Dwarf once you get and slot Light Form? Why not kill two birds with one stone? Would they really just flat out give us more Resistance to Toxic and Psi without reducing the overall numbers? What I'd like to know is if the Inherent could be coded to give us +Psionic protection or something else we lack instead when we have LF active.
You can cap to all forms of damage using cosmic balance and 5 support types on your team and in range, but there again that's also true for light form and they still made that change... -
Quote:I see no reason why not. I'd love this change.Originally Posted by Not_Rhino
Couldn't they just use the same mechanics for the new AoE SB, FF shields, etc. to make it a targetted AoE that doesn't affect caster? Or even PBAoE that doesn't affect caster?
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Quote:We kheld drivers are more often than not all over the place in what we want. There have been times when making suggestions in the kheld forums was a pointless excercise because you'd be shushed by the majority, who were largely happy with the state of things, and there have been times - usually when developers are known to be making changes, like know - when you won't hear a good word about them.Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Really? Cool. For a while I was spamming the heck out of the Kheldian forums, like an annoying spamming spambot from Spamland, saying that usually whenever I team with a Warshade my PB seems to be more survivable and doesn't feel outclassed when it comes to damage either to the point where I stopped because it was seriously cutting into my game time and the majority seemed adamant that it couldn't be true. Now, evidently, there are numbers that prove that PBs are more survivable against single targets when there are no bodies or minions around and they do more damage if you exclude a Warshade's pets from the equation. Who would have thunk it?
Mostly I was just joking about how nobody ever seems satisfied with Kheldians while I'm a little in awe of how much the Devs have improved them since I started playing one about 4 years ago.
And some people will never be happy. I know I'm probably seen as one of the malcontents right now, but you shouldn't mistake that for being "unhappy" with Peacebringers. I love my bright alien hybrids. That's why I push so hard.
But I also try and keep an open mind.
It does nothing for dwarf because you can get your resistance up to 85% just by slotting the power.Quote:Before with a standard non set IO build you'd get around 59% Resistance in Dwarf form and now with LF you can get it up to 85% Resistance most, if not all of the time. How is this doing nothing? This is huge in the way that the difference between non-capped Defence and capped Defense is huge.
In other words, it's not that dwarf isn't positively affected by the current changes to Light Form - it's that Light Form as it is on test takes the only advantages that White Dwarf used to give and gives it to human and nova forms. You're now better off to NOT take dwarf at all and give all those slots to your human form attacks.
And quite frankly Inner Light might have been created with the forms in mind, but a permable 20% damage boost with 100% spikes isn't doing nova form any favors, either. Nova still has a *slight* edge in ranged damage, but it also puts Nova 20% closer to the damage cap, and remember Nova already gets its damage from a 45% damage boost, meaning that it will cap on teams much sooner than human form. The choice between human and human/nova has come too far to the human side IMHO.
To remedy that, I'd also like to see Nova's 45% damage boost taken away and given directly to the base damage of its individual attacks, but I'm willing to pick my battles, and so I keep ranting about dwarf.
Now don't misunderstand me. I'm talking about adding Psionic and Toxic to the list of damage types that White Dwarf resists, NOT cosmic balance. Flag Dwarf as giving resistance to all damage types with no exception and leave the resistance numbers as they are.Quote:Yeah! I'd love some Psionic Resistance to be provided by the Inherent.
One Accuracy in the default slot makes Antagonize hit 99.99% of the time. The power's inherent accuracy is 1.5, for crying out loud! It didn't really need to be made autohit. The problem with not holding aggro isn't because of taunt, it's due to damage being such a large part of the taunt equation.Quote:I thought the issue was not being able to hold aggro when Blasters and other ATs can do so much damage, not that Antagonize was missing. I haven't gotten to test this much but it sounds like it should make White Dwarfs more Off Tankery at higher levels which was a real problem for me. And freeing up an extra slot for Kheldians is a big deal just by itself.
Tankers get around this with taunt auras and layered gauntlet strikes in addition to their damage, but White Dwarf doesn't have the attack chain to keep gauntlet up, doesn't do enough damage comparatively to make a dent in the aggro equation and doesn't have a taunt aura.
The problem with holding aggro never had anything at all to do with White Dwarf Antagonize missing.
But that doesn't mean that White Dwarf can't tank. Aggro stealing is going to happen, and I've seen it happen to tankers just as often as Peacebringers and - yes - Warshades.
And as far as the slots being freed up - I never devoted more than the initial slot to Antagonize, and so gain nothing slot-wise from it being autohit.
The change to autohit was a token change at best. Dwarfs could tank just as well before as they can now. -
Quote:Precisely why it doesn't need it.Originally Posted by Zemblanity
You're evil... I'd never shift out of it if White Dwarf had a jab-clone added to its repertoire...
(Although I'd love it too.) -
Quote:Even if they do make Pulsar and IS more synergetic, we're never going to be able to mez as well as Warshades. Nor should we be able to.Originally Posted by Not_Rhino
If Glowing Touch was a group heal it would be the fourth self-heal-capable power a Peacebringer has. I, for one, am fine without anymore heals. I'd personally rather do more damage and have some better mez capability than be able to heal allies.
Not that I'd complain if they decided to do it... as long as it was in addition to the above
But we're all the time asking for some sort of change that gives something back to the teams. We constantly complain about being seen as "leeches" and our inherent is "selfish."
So I'm constantly amazed by the resistance to some sort of support role for Peacebringers. Warshades can perma-stun an entire spawn to help teams out, and what can Peacebringers do? We already have some teammate healing ability, so why not improve on that?
You make a good point about Glowing Touch, but I see no reason to refuse an aoe component to an already existing self heal like Restore Essence even at the expense of any more changes.
Why? Because I highly doubt we get any more at all in the way of direct damage boosts, and I really think they've changed Photon Seekers as much as they intend. We might get Pulsar to work with Incandescent Strike, and we might get Solar Flare's kb changed to kd, but quite frankly those two changes - nice though they might be - wouldn't do as much to endear us to teams as increasing our direct team support capabilities.
I don't feel guilty asking for all of the above, but I don't see why team heals are being sold short so often. -
Quote:Although I was never in the camp that Peacebringers were a joke, you can't deny that they were lagging seriously behind. And in order to have a baseline by which to make suggestions some sort of comparison was necessary. So who would you have had us compare them to? Warshades are our nearest cousins, and frankly the only other archetype that faces similar difficulties and advantages. And TBH I don't really remember you having a whole lot to do with that whole dialogue, so I'm going to assume you were speaking in general terms with the whole "Double sux to you" statement. (although it is kinda cute)Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Oy! I was fine with Peacbringers the way they were except for maybe White Dwarf not doing enough damage but everybody said, "No, they sux compared to Warshades! Double sux to you!"
Nope. Light form isn't too powerful. You'll never hear me say that. My problem with it is that it doesn't do enough for Dwarf form. Or anything at all, really. Which brings us to:Quote:Now I gets on board with the changes and it's all "You triple sux! Light form is too powerful if you are level 50 and have massive amounts of IO bonuses!" or "Peacebringers still sux just like Warshades!"
If it goes to live with no other changes, I'll have to live with it. But until then I'm going to push for psionic resistance added to the form. It doesn't need more attacks, and it doesn't need more damage. Psionic resistance alone would give me reason enough to take it. The autohit taunt was little more than a QOL thing as far as I'm concerned. One Accuracy in the slot provided with the power is more than enough in most instances.Quote:So instead of giving White Dwarf alone higher damage numbers and/or faster recharge and/or another attack or a damage effect in Antagonize, they decide to go with making the taunt autohit. I can live with that especially considering how great Inner Light is.
You know what? You might not believe this but I was *this* close to suggesting that glowing touch would make a fine aoe heal a couple of posts up when I first talked about it, and got interrupted.Quote:Why make Restore Essence a group heal when poor neglected Glowing Touch is the perfect canidate for that? I absolutely love the idea of making Group Flight into a gravity damaging aura since right now nobody wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole. Yep, Glowing Touch, Group Flight, and maybe Quantum Flight are the powers I find most useless but if the Devs fixed them I'd have no room in my build for pool powers at all.
Yes. Glowing touch would make a wonderful candidate for an aoe heal in place of Restore Essence. But I suspect the recharge would have to be lengthened, and it obviously should NOT include the caster in that aoe. (and I'm not sure how doable that is, either) -
Quote:The reason I was against it was not that I had the perception that it was the only change being requested. My problem with it was that (a)the rationale of giving the forms more utility from Build Up could - and should - have been addressed with a significant reduction in the shift animation, and (b)I suspected that one buff to our damage was all we were getting, and this wasn't enough.Originally Posted by Zenyth
Joe, I love ya, but I dont know how many times we can say this...it has to sink in...
Rage-ifying Build-up was not a suggestion to fix ALL our damage. It was a suggestion to make it more valuable in our forms. There simply will not be a single fix that fixes everything. Thats just not possible. The change to make build up, Inner Light IS good...its good because it makes it more useful for Nova and Dwarf. Its not ALL thats needed though. Please stop acting like the suggestion was ever intended to be a one stop fix for all things PB damage...please...
And - like it or not - I was probably right about (b). Which means that what we have is what we're going to keep. And I will admit that it is at least an improvement. The numbers show that out plainly enough.
You might notice that I said I was against the change to build up. There's frankly nothing to be done about it now, and I see no reason now to resist it. Pragmatism dictates that I work within the confines of what's on beta now and try to suggest improvements from there.
The only reason I brought it up in the first place was that Grey Pilgrim asked.
NOT an unreasonable request, and - given that Arbiter Hawk is willing to at least look at it - one that I fully expect to see implemented in some form.Quote:I still stand by pulsar and Incandescent strike need to be either stun or hold...not one of each. Pulsar should still be mag 3, but I want them to work together rather than against each other...ill suck it up if its mag 2 and chance of mag 1 as long as they both are the same mez type.
I actually liked your suggestion for Photon Seekers. I don't remember if I ran the numbers on it or not, but I suspect it would give better results than what we got. I would have mentioned it above, only I couldn't remember the details and didn't have time to search for the post.Quote:As for Photon Seekers, I'm still thinking something like Hell on Earth wouldn't be horrible here...either a self buff that pops off photon seekers ever couple seconds that would zip off, explode, and hey, maybe even keep the buffsplosion on them...It'd give us a little more consistent damage, another buff, for groups as well as ourselves. Sorta a blast button we dont have to hit. -
Quote:O.oOriginally Posted by Test_Rat
Let me apologize in advance for this:
The Kheldian surprize involves tentacles.
Carry on.
ooookay, then. Whatever that means.
You know, getting back to the power gap I referred to in the 26-30 range, one suggestion I always liked - but was almost universally hated by everyone else - was Lord Xenite's proposal that reform essence be made a pbaoe heal instead of just a self heal.
As it stands, Warshades can position and stun an entire spawn with the powers they gain between 26 and 30, and it only makes sense for Peacebringers to gain comparable levels of direct team support before 30.
There was such a vehement knee-jerk reaction to the notion (a false notion, btw) that it would turn us into pocket healzors that he eventually dropped it, and I've always thought that was a shame. -
Quote:Build Up was never the problem. Outside of the pets, Peacebringers out-damaged Warshades.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Joe, what was your idea for fixing Build Up? I don't really recall it. I did always think Build Up needed some help, and it at least got it. I would say it's good enough for what it needs to be as a power, it just wasn't the only fix Peacebringers needed for their offense to be better.
Like Light Form, I was pretty much satisfied with Build Up as it was. It wasn't benefiting the forms very much, but a reduction in the shifting animation - which is currently on Hawk's to-do list anyway - would have mitigated that problem.
The real problems Peacebringers had was the disharmonious mezzes among powers like Photon Seekers, Pulsar and Incandescent Strike, and the severe damage disparity between Photon Seekers and Extracted Essence.
There's also a major power gap in the 26-30 range between Warshades and Peacebringers that I haven't even begun to address. (Warshades gain mez mitigation in spades during those levels. Peacebringers should gain comparable levels of team support, but instead get a pale imitation of heal other.)
My main suggestion was to decrease the recharge of Photon Seekers to 120 seconds (and adding a flag that would make 3 the maximum summoned) and add a small pbaoe damage buff of 15% per seeker explosion that lasted 30 seconds. That by itself would have brought us twice as far towards closing the gap than the current changes. We still wouldn't have had as much damage potential as Warshades, but the mortality rate among extracted essences would have balanced it out IMO.
EDIT - To say nothing of the fact that anyone standing within 10-15 feet of the damage radius would have been buffed as well, so Peacebringers would actually be bringing something to other melee types.