SkunkWerks

If boggling leads to thread necromancy, boggle not.

I like his sig, too.

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After watching the E3 movie of CoV today I realized one thing...He was getting tossed around like he was dead, Statesmen tried to see if he was alive but was interrupted before he could...So when CoV hits the stores does that mean that Synapse will no longer be in the game and maybe that new guy will take his place. Dunno really just speculating.

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Well, I talked it over with a few of my inside sources within cryptic (Who shall be referred to as "NotPositron" and "MuggaTea"), and they stated that Synapse will indeed be removed from the game. Apparently, Germany has recently enacted laws that make it illegal to display anything with men in blue suits with white markings who's name starts with S, ends with E, and has ynaps in the middle.

...So yeah, it's all a ploy to appease those dirty penguin sledding, moose riding, ramen eating Europeans.

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Ok, I am actually kinda in the "5th Column's removal was wonky" camp and even I had to laugh at that.

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The real question is: If I started playing Outcast volley ball using Repel, would Positron attack then, just to spite me?

Because it happens to me all the time in Atlas park proper.

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I play CoT Rooftop Cricket in King's Row using Repel and Teleport. We should get together sometime.

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Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win.

Get a shot off fast. This upsets him long enough to let you make your second shot perfect

Anyone know these quotes without googling?

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Robert Heinlein. Time Enough For Love. Quotables from Lazarus Long.

No I didn't Google. And never threaten a little man. He'll kill you.

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So I was on with my SG on Champion a while ago, and we were doing the Positron TF. At one point, we were ambush right in front of Positron and Valkyrie. So here's all these guys shooting at us, trying to kill us, and Mr. Bigshot "I got my armor upgraded" and Ms. "I have this fancy spear that none of you can get!" are just kinda standing there watching.

THANKS A LOT, LEGENDARY HEROES!

Seriously, though, it would be cool if the trainers got some sort of automated power similar to the police drones. There's just something wrong about the eight most famous heroes in all of Paragon city standing there watching you get pounded on.

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All that crap is grey to me, no XP.

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Bwahahahahahaha!

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Well i dont think it will be next thursday. From what I can remember from the invasion only those eye thingies and the rularu brutes came through the portals. But there are plenty of other type of rularu like the wisps and those strange little flying things with wings. Of course all of these are in the shadow shard if you want to see them, you have to be high level though to get in. But now it seems as though when you enter the shadow shard you are actually invading thier world. Im hoping that in the future the devs will make them invade us again, but this time with a bigger force!

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There, fixed. And stop gwave-wobbing alweady!

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Yes, the ones we fought tooth and nail for.

They did not make it because the PLAYERS were passionate.

The Apathy Squad got nothing done. They waited to see. The passionate ones fought for the love of the game. The Apathy crowd just quietly moved to WoW, EQ2 and so on..........

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And what of the objective ones?

There's a reason I sit on the fence a lot of the time... Can't see both sides otherwise.

And should we NOT have to fight tooth and nail? And does fighting tooth and nail synonymous with throwing a tantrum about it? I'm seeing a lot of that... it's not helping.

Not at all.

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There are dozens of changes on every patch that are not argued over. So by your logic, if folks let so many go by, then the ones they argue over are debated for good reason.

And all sitting on the fence does is ram a post up your backside.

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And all stubbornly miring yourself on one side of it does is blind you to possibilities. But, to each his own.

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So let's... what?

Jump in a time machine and go back before all of this happened?




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Fine by me.

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Fine, fair enough...

...and also not going to happen. So what should we do that's actually in the realm of feasibility here?

I despise PvP, think it's horribly unbalanced, and could frankly do without it, but, as I said, once you know a thing you can't un-know it. So let's try to make the best out of this, shall we?

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Yes, the ones we fought tooth and nail for.

They did not make it because the PLAYERS were passionate.

The Apathy Squad got nothing done. They waited to see. The passionate ones fought for the love of the game. The Apathy crowd just quietly moved to WoW, EQ2 and so on..........

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And what of the objective ones?

There's a reason I sit on the fence a lot of the time... Can't see both sides otherwise.

And should we NOT have to fight tooth and nail? And does fighting tooth and nail synonymous with throwing a tantrum about it? I'm seeing a lot of that... it's not helping.

Not at all.

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I just love these posts about something that is going on Test server and may even not make it to the live server...

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I just love these posts about "It's only on test..."

Yep, I remember a lot of them in relation to Invulnerability.

And more about Regen (which has had most of the original changes slipped in, they just spread them out to be more 'subtle').

For those who post such things; if no one points out what is bad on test, why wouldn't the changes go live?

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I'd rather just pair that down to make it simple and just leave it at:

Some changes made on the test server didn't go live.

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...Is PvP a consideration? Sure. Is it THE consideration? No...

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Allow me to join those who say, I 100% don't believe you. If you were not adding PvP, this change would never happen, and not because you had 'missed' something.

And you stating (earlier) that you can as effectively 'hover-snipe' with these mobile powers shows either extreme hyperbole, or a gross lack of understanding of sniping mechanics. You can pick.

You can ignore your players all you want, but the truth is you are removing fun from the game with this change, and that there is no PvE 'balance' issue involved.

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So let's... what?

Jump in a time machine and go back before all of this happened?

See it's been my understanding that what PvP (and by the way, this comes from a person who despises PvP) has done is underlined some inequalities that have already been existent all this time. It provided a new perspective on powers and thier use.

Sorry, but you can't put the apple back on the tree Eve...

Thread Necromancy most foul!

Whoah! Whoah! Waitaminute here! Editor! Can I get an editor in here?!

"Hellions trying to sneak up on Synapse and Sister Psyche"? Huh?

Those are OUTCASTS.

(Edit: apparently I'm not the only one who noticed...)

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Exactly. He wasn't nuts about it. In all games, there are ways to PL that aren't exploits. But they still encompass the basic principle. Trading items, for example, is not an exploit. MMOs encourage it for a prosperous economy. But giving away items to lowbies? Is that an exploit? No... but it is immoral. Just as giving items from a higher level character to one of your own lower level characters is not only immoral, it's a BANNABLE offense.

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This is the first time in my life I've ever heard of charity and generosity referred to as immoral.

Thank you for this first. I was wondering if it ever would happen.

/absurdity

I would add to this:

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Powerleveling effects me because its widespread practice means that higher-level characters' players simply PRESUME that I want to powerlevel if I'm on a team with them unless told otherwise, and when I do say otherwise, they're surprised--or even insulted that I'd not want their "generousity" and wish to actually be USEFUL as a sidekick.

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Noted. But that doesn't seem any different than anything else that happens that I don't want to do. I get blind invites when I don't want them. I get tells when I don't want them. I get offers to be a "mid" when I don't want them. I get offers to be pwlvled when I don't want them. I'll have teams decide to do a task force when I don't want to do one.

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I get invites to TFs when I don't want them. I get invited to respecs when I don't want to be. I get invted to Trials when I don't wish to be. I get invited to street hunt when I'd rather be doing door missions. I get invited to be a sidekick when I don't want to be. I get invited to exemplar when I don't want to. I get invited to trade when I don't want to. I get Invited to SG's I don't wish to be in...


....Surprisingly, the same, simple strategy works just as well on all of these, I just say:

"Thanks, but no."

Problem solved. Simple choice really. You can choose to fume on about it for five minutes or ten minutes or twenty minutes, ot you can choose to enjoy the game.

Same thing with Powerlevelers: you can choose to let it bother you or choose not to. Either way the only problem it causes is in your own head.

Me? I choose to enjoy my game, and not let the behavior of others impede it. But yeah, I know, I'm funny like that. I choose to take control of my own destiny rather than whine about where others are steering it.

Go fig.

NERF.... trees?

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This is not necessarily true. This also causes lag issues at the trams. The Devs didnt' "just" decide to do this, they had data we don't that prompted them to do so.

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Lag? That's why we are going to have to put up with this crap? Because of "lag at the trams"? Oh good grief...

And I would love to see some data that explained to me how pwlvlers effect my gameplay. I got my Blaster to lvl 29 before I even heard the term "powerlvling". Guess where I heard it? That's right...on this board. From someone complaining about it. I didn't understand then and I don't understand now why it is important to anyone how fast someone else progresses through the game. The "fun police" seem to be intent on forcing everyone to have fun the "right way".

Thank god I have a Tanker to play... Good lord what a pain to be a support class with this "solution" to the fake problem.

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I've had a similar experience. Indeed the times for me that powerleveling seems in any small way consequential to me is when I come to these boards and see someone whining about it, or worse, I see a proposed change as inane as this.

So, I trade a little less lag at the trams for a very tempermental XP gain on my characters in teams, one that gets progressively worse as you step away from the more conventional (read: damage) forms of team contribution.

Sadly I have no tank in any severe degree of development. My Defender is my pride and joy, built well for teaming... Just the shifts in team attitudes and behavior this new framework will likely encourage is quite depressing for me to consider.

I team with people because I find it fun to add a bit of socializing to my gameplay. It makes the grind seem less apparent. What better way to bring it back to the fore than by complicating the issue of advancement even more?

Yeah, I think I've earned the right to say that any possible gain I might benefit from on behalf of this solution is quite infentessimal compared to the inconvenience I'll be suffering. The cure is far worse than the disease.

In short: NO, States. Just NO.

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I'm of the opinion that the whole effort in putting for th the measure is a waste of time in the first place. Be as stringent as you like, it's not going to stop Powerlevelers- a group of people who are:

A) A minority, and

B) Do not affect the game for the rest of us in any quanitifiable way.

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I'm normally on your side, Skunk, but I need to say: none of us have the results of the developers queries and reports. We cannot datamine on levelling rates and teaming. Our only evidence is anecdotal -- we really can't quantify anything.

We can probably note trends -- I think it's safe to say that, oh, "more people interested in rapid powerlevelling are involved in instanced missions for herding" -- but we have no idea what percentage of people are doing parked-powerlevelling or how much they're blowing the progression curve.

I'm skeptical about the good this change will do, certainly. It's also quite possible that their queries aren't showing specific situations and are thus misleading. Without looking at them, though, I don't think we can make a call either way.

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Well, certainly some of what I'm saying here is based on anecdote, conjecture and on hypothesis....

....then again, so is the very DEFINITION of the term "powerleveling".

Really, what is "leveling too fast"? And if you can't define it, in an equitable way that satisfies all parties involved, then how can you possibly expect to target it in a fair and equitable way?

Because to me, that's what this measure represents: a hasty attempt to zero in on a porton of the playerbase that cannot easily be defined in the first place.

Good response, all in all though, I understand what you're saying here. I just think that the whole issue is rather muddy to begin with, and not worth pursuing with the sort of fervor it's being pursued with in the first place.

And I'll stand by that.

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Doesn't seem to be a minority to me... I get at least 1 "wanna bridge" tell each time I log on.

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Funny, in all the time it's taken me to reach level 44 I've received all of one genuine PL request. and one that might have been such a request, but I'm honestly not sure I could verify that. In any case, do wht I do, and not only with PL tells, but with the MAJORITY of chat related annoyances that have NOTHING to do with PLers at all: /ignore.

Really, if you think eliminating (if it were even possible to do so) this small cross section of the gaming populace is going to lessen your /tell related annoyances by any significant degree, then I'd have to say you're sadly deluded.

Idiots exist, in game as they do in life. They aren't confined to the ranks of Powerleveling players either. I you can't cope with this fact I'd strongly suggest not walking out your front door in the morning.


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People said Kraken farming wasn't affecting the game in any way. Oh, look! Kraken farmers got the XP for the Sewer trial nerfed!

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Who pressed the nerf button on that one? Was it the Powerlevelers? No?

Well that's good to hear since it makes absolutely no sense to me why they'd shoot themselves in the foot like that. I do believe it was the Devs that pressed the nerf button.

It's been said by others, I'll repeat it here: Powerlevelers have NO apreciable effect on our gaming experience- however what DOES have a definite quantifiable effect on our gaming experience is ham-handed, futile, vindictive crusades by the developers to stamp out what really is a minor annoyance, if it can be called that at all.

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Having "everywhere in missions" means this will be pointless of a change to implement, as powerleveling in missions will simply continue. Well, unless the goal is to remove powerleveling from open zones, which might be nice in its own self.

Why not go to the "if you used any power that affected the npc, or took damage from the npc, or used a power on someone who had done damage to the npc, or did damage to the npc, and your team did the preponderance of damage to the npc" concept? or is it too hard to code it that way?

As it stands the "doing damage" requirement is not equitable between PCs, some of who have AE damage powers and some don't. This was already a problem with how xp is allocated between unteamed players fighting the same NPC; it doesn't need to be propagated onto teamed characters getting or not getting XP. If a PC contributed to the defeat, they should get XP, whether or not their contribution was in the form of damage.

So to sum up:

- everywhere in missions - exploitable and too much of a back down
- damage only - unfair
- death penalty - still too short. should be 4 mins minimum.

Dying once every 4 mins is enough to slow down powerleveling quite sufficiently if someone was trying the corpse-dragging exploit idea. or alternatively -

How about having all xp go to debt only if the person is getting xp while dead? that would prevent powerleveling but still be fair to those who legitimately died for the team. No timeout, just a change - dead get xp as if exemplared? (would change to inf when no debt just as exemplared)

Then make it that + the distance and no exceptions for having done damage, unless you also have exceptions for debuffing, holding, healing damage dealers, taunting, etc.

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I'm of the opinion that the whole effort in putting for th the measure is a waste of time in the first place. Be as stringent as you like, it's not going to stop Powerlevelers- a group of people who are:

A) A minority, and

B) Do not affect the game for the rest of us in any quanitifiable way.

SO what precisely is the point of employing a measure that will profoundly affect ALL of us in order to get at a small percentage of the playerbase that isn't hurting any of us in the first place?

Pointless.

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Isn't that the point of this change, to get the PL'ers out of the tram station and at least within viewing distance of the fight?

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If changes this profound to the game need to be made so another player whom I don't know- and therefore has never had the opportunity to affect my game let alone the inclination or ability to do so, adversely or otherwise- is encouraged to take the "scenic" route through his daily PLing, then I think this is a change I can do without.

Yes, a bit of the old argumentum ad absurdam I know... Strangely I still feel it's oddly apt for discussing this particular measure.

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You can barely tab target something 300 feet away. Only way you can snipe something is to put in a bunch of hami range and boost range it. Already on live this often doesn't register in the combat log. And even then when you snipe something in FF from the entrance to the nearest 5th near the square if they run away from a snipe such as moonbeam you don't get credit for the defeat since they run out of visual range.

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The point is that you could do something non-damaging to help the battle (Fearsome Stare, buffs, heals, etc...) and then pretty easily go out of range for some reason (fell off a Skyway overpass, moved away to help a different team member, etc...) Or the mob could jump off the overpass (they do this all the time), or decide to fly away.

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Or you could fall off a walkway (or get KNOCKED OFF it- via the new villian Knockback abilities) in one of those very difficult maps, like the Oranbegan ones so many players love to hate for their uncanny ability to defy all attempts at sane navigation (lovely art, BTW, but then again so are hedge mazes).

I suppose if you're lucky enough to have a conscientious team, they'll wait for you. On the other hand this ~rare~ courtesy adds yet another form of downtime to the game unique to team activities, and contributes to team divisiveness.

I'm sorry to say I still find this leash idea repugnant, and lacking any provocation that equals the profound effect it's going to have on us ALL and not just the minority of powerlevelers it's meant to target.

I can't say I don't disagree with this on a fundamental level.

The original proposal I recall describing as: a ham-handed attempt to solve for a non-issue.

This modification upgrades it to: A slightly less ham-handed attempt to solve for a non-issue.


I'm appreciative of, and laud you Statesman and the rest of the Development team for your willingness to listen to feedback, as well as to commmunicate with us on what others might consider rather sensitive and proprietary development issues.

This is a step in the right direction, however I still feel this measure lacks a cause worthy of its scope. I will continue to keep tabs on this expectantly, however in the hopes that the most reasonable solution can be worked out.

Oh I didn't mean that the rules of a CCG or playing a CCG irritates me... I mean CCGs themselves irritate me- I've never played one and have no inclination to do so. And for no real rational reason I could relate to you.