Sin_Stalker

Hello all.

I am currently finishing up the last of the screen shots for my Justice-Knights comic book issue 3 : Love and Remorse.
The only thing I am lacking is a cover. The first issue was done by an SG mate of mine who is unfortunatly very busy currently. The second issue was a really great demo shot i made and had to have it bigger than just in a small frame.

Well here is the third issue almost done and I dont relaly have a cover yet. I could go and get a screen shot and guess but that seems so... eh.

Id love to have some spice to this, some REAL art work to this cox comic book. So I thought Id ask here.

Please, if it is at all possible if any of you are interested in doing the cover of the Justice-Knights issue 3 comic book, that would be awesome.

I dont really have anything to offer other than my graditude and also a "cover done by Blank" in the comic book.

I can though offer you a cameo in a future issue at least...

Anyways I hope someone out there is interested.

I have a few ideas for a cover. I could pass around with you. Mainly one of the main characters Sin Stalker with his sidekick or maybe the sidekick himself with his demo counterpart or his demon nemesis.

I am open to pretty much anything, as long as it is true to the character.
To see my characters and Sin Stalker, please check out the Justice-Knights comic book issue 1 and 2 for screen shots.

IF those arnt enough, let me know and I will post some more. I however do not believe I have the sidekick scene in any of these so I will be posting a bit later once I get a good one or two and get them up.

Please, any help would be greatly appricated. If you do not have the time to do everything from inking to coloring but are willing to pass your art along, I believe I can find someone to ink and/or color the cover versino of the art.

Anyways, hope there is someone around interested.

Glad this isnt a world of warcrap thread.
Scared me for a second

Another great one. Wish it was longer.

Ignoring Rowrsies strange comments to everything I say...

Gata, I think you have a basis for a good story here but personally I am not a fan at all of these 43 year summed up things. I usually find it a struggle and only read such things because I am forcing myself too so I can know whats going on in the current series I am invested in.

I'd love to see these in stories though, which is why my advance and desire would be to see this as several short or long stories.

Gata on her adventure into the vampire world, Gata against the lesser god, etc, etc.

I would read it in an instant if it was there with a developed plot, a caste of characters and all that good stuff.

I enjoy your ideas but unfortuanly thats all this is for now because I have to force myself to read through it and I hate that I have to.
If it sounds bad, I am sorry, I am just being truthful. I think these are some awesome story ideas and again *almost begging at this point* would love to read them in seperate long or short stories. I really hope to see that.

[ QUOTE ]

You know what this reminds me of, is the "Try to account for everything that's happened over the last 43 years" superhero summaries one reads about classic Marvel or DC characters. Fitting in every single story by each author who brought something new to the character becomes quite a challenge and is something that I don't find terribly rewarding.

My biggest piece of advice is to simplify everything here. Take out as much as you can without losing the underlying thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I ment.

Anyways, I have a question Gata. Is this character a singel character or a characted you created several times ingame with different powers after you hit lvl 50 with them?

Eh, yes and no.

If you look at any superhero the origin story is the beginning.

Batman: as Bruce Wayne has his parents killed infront of him. He then goes on lots of adventures, learning martial arts, detective work and all those skills he gets. Finally he returns to Gotham and then the bat flys in the window and he get the idea about Batman and there you go.

Superman: his planet is dieing, his parents send him off, he comes to earth and is adopted by two great people. He has lots of grand adventures figuring out his powers and whatnot is his teens. He then travels the world finding out who he is and saving people and finally he returns home to the USA and eventually goes to Metropolis. Finding bad guy stuff going on, he gets his costume from his Ma' out of some of the old material and/or the S from his homeworld and he fights crime.

Spiderman: He loses his parents and lives with his aunt and uncle, finally one day he is bitten by a radioactive spider and has some great adventures figuring out how his powers work. He becomes a wrestler and other stuff (uncle ben's death) happens until he finally makes the webshooters and dawns his costume(not as a wrestler but) a crime fighter.

I could keep going on but every origin story has those adventures but they stop once they start the costumed heroing.
ITs obvious by Gata's story that she becomes a hero in paragon around the seventh chapter or so when she dawns the name new name and also gives the reasons why she is weaker than before (a norm for people entering Paragon as you start at lvl 1 with only 2 powers).

Now if you want to argue further then I guess you could say for the past 50ish years, every story of spiderman has been part of his origin story as in the last few years his powers advanced more and got these claw thingys.

You could say Supermans still in his origin stage since he is gaining new powers or then short stint while he was all electricy was apart of it.

You say Batman still is today since he is taking on newer and newer tech and gadgets.

There is a cut-off where the origin is and when the stories begin(although even the origin is a story on itself and 99% of the time is is multiple stories) and that cut-off is once they dawn there new persona and fight crime as this person.

Gata hits around the seventh chapter.

I like to argue too but only when I can sit presidence. Hmm... maybe I should be a lawyer lol.

I read the first few paragraphs and skimmed the rest. I am going to read the rest in more detail later.

Basically, it isnt an origin story.

The first couple of paragraphs, how she came to primal earth and how she lost most of her powers is the origin story.
The rest of it isnt an origin. Its more like Gata's adventures.
She ventures off and gains different powers through one adventure after another. She has short stays going into the Vampire world and the undead cultures.

Those are all story archs on her path. Ones that you sum as origins and therefore they lose there attraction.

I'd recommend simply getting rid of most of what you wrote after the end of her real origin and the rest you expound upon and make into stories of her adventures.

I can imagine this character pretty well. At least what I believe you are going for. I can imagine this once angelic figure, trapped here on earth, going undercover to vampire nightclubs or witch covens or whatever trying to find more powers, while each issue of the comic book or each episode of the series she solves another crime or mystery or saves another person all along the way of finding the answers she seeks.

So yeah, again. This isnt at all an origin story past about the seventh paragraph. Once you start talking about the gods and whatnots seems like a summed up episode or issue plot.

As far as the stories themsevles goes, I think they are really great ideas. You have some cool ideas for where you want your character to go and the types of things she does but so far they are only ideas and basics.
They are really good and I hope you actually fully develop them and write them into full stories cuz I would definatly read em.

But yeah to sum up, good backbones for stories and great ideas, and all of that isnt 16 bios or one or whatever, its 1 at the very beginning (about the first 7 paragraphs at the most) and the rest are some of her adventures and key plot points in the story of Gata the superhero.

Hope this helps and if youd like more or have spacific questions, let me know.

-Sin Stalker

Thank you.

Issue 3 is almost half done. Its proving more complicated than I expected and I am also taking on several other projects all at the same time...

Some good news though is that www.cohcomics.com finaly uploaded the first issue. So now people who want to check out the first issue on a third viewer, can. lol

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If Torroes is broken, you should really break him. Make him morose, perhaps a drunk to dull the pain. Maybe someone needs him and his special skills, but he turns them down. "I can't do that, not since -. Find someone else."

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmm, that point actually a direct conflict with Torroes' character. he's always forced himself to be pro-active, even to the point of being self-destructive. So, he wouldn't shy away from a fight or operation of any sort. Quit the opposite, he would practically volunteer.
Actually, opinion question: How would you read those kind of actions? Always heading into the fiercest fights, the hardest missions, taking on the strongest of the enemy availible at the time. How would that read in terms of being broken ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That works, too. Depressed to the point of taking nearly suicidal risks. Although you have to kind of steer clear of comparisons to Riggs from Lethal Weapon, since that was his MO, too.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW: How many quote of quote responses do you think we can get in this topic, Ironik?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eleventy billion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt sound like a real number...

I mean who ever heard of billion anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess we all have now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still havnt.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait wha....?

Holy cowzer... thats awesome.

/e praise

Dude... O.O

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If Torroes is broken, you should really break him. Make him morose, perhaps a drunk to dull the pain. Maybe someone needs him and his special skills, but he turns them down. "I can't do that, not since -. Find someone else."

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmm, that point actually a direct conflict with Torroes' character. he's always forced himself to be pro-active, even to the point of being self-destructive. So, he wouldn't shy away from a fight or operation of any sort. Quit the opposite, he would practically volunteer.
Actually, opinion question: How would you read those kind of actions? Always heading into the fiercest fights, the hardest missions, taking on the strongest of the enemy availible at the time. How would that read in terms of being broken ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That works, too. Depressed to the point of taking nearly suicidal risks. Although you have to kind of steer clear of comparisons to Riggs from Lethal Weapon, since that was his MO, too.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW: How many quote of quote responses do you think we can get in this topic, Ironik?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eleventy billion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt sound like a real number...

I mean who ever heard of billion anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess we all have now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I still havnt.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If Torroes is broken, you should really break him. Make him morose, perhaps a drunk to dull the pain. Maybe someone needs him and his special skills, but he turns them down. "I can't do that, not since -. Find someone else."

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmm, that point actually a direct conflict with Torroes' character. he's always forced himself to be pro-active, even to the point of being self-destructive. So, he wouldn't shy away from a fight or operation of any sort. Quit the opposite, he would practically volunteer.
Actually, opinion question: How would you read those kind of actions? Always heading into the fiercest fights, the hardest missions, taking on the strongest of the enemy availible at the time. How would that read in terms of being broken ?

[/ QUOTE ]

That works, too. Depressed to the point of taking nearly suicidal risks. Although you have to kind of steer clear of comparisons to Riggs from Lethal Weapon, since that was his MO, too.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW: How many quote of quote responses do you think we can get in this topic, Ironik?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eleventy billion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesnt sound like a real number...

I mean who ever heard of billion anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If Torroes is broken, you should really break him. Make him morose, perhaps a drunk to dull the pain. Maybe someone needs him and his special skills, but he turns them down. "I can't do that, not since -. Find someone else."

[/ QUOTE ]


Hmm, that point actually a direct conflict with Torroes' character. he's always forced himself to be pro-active, even to the point of being self-destructive. So, he wouldn't shy away from a fight or operation of any sort. Quit the opposite, he would practically volunteer.
Actually, opinion question: How would you read those kind of actions? Always heading into the fiercest fights, the hardest missions, taking on the strongest of the enemy availible at the time. How would that read in terms of being broken ?

BTW: How many quote of quote responses do you think we can get in this topic, Ironik?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont know... want to try? lol

Another good one Midnight. One thing though, I got confused with the word bubbles on page 7.

Okay, the framing and stuff isnt that bad at all. There are a couple of frames that you are almost too far away. Also a couple of frames that you could be zooming in more of. I'll list em here:

Page 3 Frame 1 (p3f1): This could be zoomed in alot more. Its a good action scene but zooming in can spice it up a bit. You never have to show everything cuz the imagination of the read will fill in the gaps.
Remember at this point it isnt a video game. Dont have a players perspective but an artists so dont show EVERYTHING or from far away unless its needed for the story itself. This isnt needed for the story. For more action framing tips look at other mainstream comics and movies on how they frame when the guy just throws a punch to the entire fight scene.


P4 : While frame 1 isnt that bad, frames 2 and 3 could use a closer view. This is one of the good examples of the framing.

P5: This page looks great. Nothing really wrong here cept for the bubble tails. You did a good job with having a different frame and zoom in. Since you are going back and forth, changing up the shots just a little tiny bit, the way the head is tilt and how much you are zoomed in from frame to frame will make the difference and you did that. Just remember that you did that!
It seems like a suttle dif but its a big one of the human subconscious and the way the reader will take in information.

P6 F1 amd f2: Both are good pictures but I would prefer to see one of them closer than the other. Both camera angles are great though and the F2 shot is really nice.

The rest of the pages and frames you could have played around with. Zoomed in more and had slightly changing angles. It does get visually dulling near the end.
That last frame on the last page through is really good. I wouldnt change that at all but most of the frames before it I would have closened on at least half.

Hope that helps and gives you examples and spacifics to look out and play around with.

By the way, have you checked out my comic yet? Its in the screen shots and Fan Art section titled "Justice-Knights City of Fan made comic book"

Let me know what you think.

Yes, that is correct about the tails. They dont need to be right at there mouth but pointed towards it, yes.
Play with it for awhile. Do what i did and go through other comics. I went through hundreds of comics, i went through every CoX fan made comic book I could find.
There is a hero there is a writer for writing, a artist for doing art... and a specialist in everything else, even inking and bubbling. Its all an art onto itself and its something most people dont realize or at least very few in the CoX fan comic community.

The zooms /framing I will take a second look at but it will be later.

A 3rd thing I could say about fan made comic books... a problem I see and its not always a problem if you are actually going for that is rememeber this is comic books. You are storytelling through visuals. I've read many cox comic books that had some cool shots but had HUGE ammounts of text and discriptions. I good example of this problem is in a recent comic that was featured in the City Scoop. It was like a few issues back but described stuff at many parts that shouldnt be described if it was a comic book.
At these points it read like a normal piece of fan fiction with lots of pictures. This happened very early and too many times and eventually pulled my interest away from the comic. It had a few others problems but was still really good, especially once you got going but those things at the beginning... well if I wasnt so keen on reading through almost every cox fan comic book i can get my hands on... i would probably have put it down by the 8th page.

The best thing to simply do is go by example. Look for as many comics as you can. Learn from them from how they place word bubbles to how they frame each page and how many frames per page.
Go even farther and compare them to several fan made comics books.
A good spot to find fan made cox comics is at www.cohcomics.com .
It has many comics, some not so good and some really great.

I'll let you know later about framing.

-Sin

2 things ill put here so others can see to. Take it or leave it but ive seen most comic book makers on here do it.

1. the word bubbles. For you the tails are too long and kind of take over the frame. Do not forget that every aspect of a comic book is art, I.E. -
The artworks/screen shots, the story, the dialogue, the frame layout and even...
the placement, shape and whatnot of the word bubbles is art in itself. It is all of these things wrapped together and MORE, that make a comic into a work of art.
for you more than the placement of the bubbles is simply the tail of it. Try and tone that back more.

2. The screen shots themselves.
For instance if you want a close up of the guys face. Most will zoom in just enough... try bringing it in more to cut off the top of his head or chin. Look at modern day cinematogrphy for this.
Also avoid pulling to far out.
Since we are so used to ingame views, when people put the shots into comics, we tend to have it pulled out too far.
Yes the background and everything is beautiful but we lose the main character or action and whats going on if its out too far. I keep seeing this mistake done more than any other in fan made comic books and it sucks cuz so many of great writing and put so much time into it.

You dont have the second one that bad, i just wanted to list it so you are mindfull of it, cuz everyone falls pray to this when you want a jumping shot or something. But yeah... my main advice, pull back the word tails.

I think its a good premise and your first issue was good. There are a couple of small problems but your story is great. I am willing to helpout, give advice and stuff as much as i can but I, Myself, am putting on several projects, including my own comic which I hope you could check out so you know I have some cred to back it up before I critique your work.

I'd love to go over your strenghts and some weakness' Ive seen and help you get this thing rolling and great.
Send me a private message or something. I can also meet you ingame on your server or possibly you can join me on my ventrilo server.

Damn...

and only 37? Anyone know what happened?

Again, another awesome issue.

BTW, Midnight, I sent you a private tell, mainly about that pulp version. I am very intersted to know how you did that because I'd like to learn and possibly do that for my own comics.

hmm.. I wonder...

There was talk about something new happening to bases in the upcoming issues...

Perhaps this thing they are speaking about is a sort of precursor to that new system.

It would be posted here because maybe we can edit maps and stuff. Again a precursor to making your own storyarchs in future issues.

This would allow us to not demo edit but ingame edit and make our own maps/zones and NPC which we could then of course use for taking screen shots for comic books, videos and stuff.

I dont get the shakespear refrence though. Thats the missing piece to this puzzle...

-Sin

I liked it alot.
Only one small detail, Monica was a brunette and looked like a real life version of betty boop. At least i think it was betty... But anyways, she was brunette. Besides that I completely loved this story. Great job.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm noticing that the Justice Knights are turning Sin Stalker into the hub of the Supergroup. If he turned up all dead for some reason, I expect they'd fall completely apart. Maybe future issues can deal with group members forming some real friendships (grudging ones, maybe, in the case of annoying head cases like Patman) beyond "I owe/love/respect Sin Stalker so I won't rip your head off. This time."


[/ QUOTE ]

I am glad you picked up on that. See the Justice-Knights comic book isnt just supossed to be a good story, although I hope it is. It is supposed to be a sorta social commentary on the CoX community and life.
Also following along with how the group actual was back in the end of 2006 (which is when they issues take place if you look at the beginning of each issue).

Basically, at that point, like almost all other groups, if the creator/leader dissapeared the group usually falls apart. Also at that point if I did dissapear then the group would have faded away. Most of the characters around that time were new or newish and I was inviting almost the entire SG on my own so they all knew me. I was sort of a hub for the group, just as in the comic.

Now finally after more than a year I have been able to get farther away from that. I have found trustworthy co-leaders that have the same goal in mind for how the group should be and a good ammount members who want to make the SG event better. So now if I dissapeared, I dont think the group would break apart... at least not for awhile anyways.

Again, I am really glad you picked up on that and yes eventually the Knights will move away from that but during the course of the series there are certain points I like to make. Some are very suddle and others are in your face. I hope its another aspect of the series people come to enjoy and you can expect to see more of real aspects of the CoX life reflected at least a little bit in these stories.

Why cant a ghost get naked? I mean maybe her cloths dont come off but cant they dematterialize or something? Look at movies, there are naked ghosts all the time. ghost in different cloths and whatnot.
I think its possible...

Dont kill the fantasy.

These are really awesome. Thank you.