Shubbie

Ice/dark Necro/dark necro/ta Dark/dark and other controllery MM's and corruptors arent going anywhere. They give up damage for that control, but they still do more damage than dominators.

Heck any MM can outdamage any pre pet dominator by a large margin and even post pet dominators by a moderate.

Necro/dark and Necro/ta have some really good control. And much of it soft like tar patch and glue which werent nerfed to heck in the controller nerf.

Dominators are in a bad place compared to the controllerMM's and cor's.

If you dont build almost perfect yes they are going to suck.

Also some doms dont develop till the mid to late 30's.

Plant seems to do better than the others. They arent awful to the point of useless, but adding anything else almost always contribute more.

Look its long been my point if something else can do a better job, the one doing the lesser job is gimp.

If a necro/dark MM or ice/dark cor has as good control,better damage, and buff/debuff then yes dominators are gimp.

Dominators are not unplayable, but they dont do as good as job as a control corruptor, control MM, or controllers in Coh.

Read, dominators get lost, Stalkers take a hike. I can see this is going to be lovely.

Im not being critical of the team that did this, congratulations to them.

Im angry at the devs for this, I havent gotten to high 40's but I will say 75% of players arent going to be able to do this even if the AV's were rolled back to i6 level.

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Essentially, each hit (if successful) will give you a short term damage buff. Different powers would have different buffs; but if you could string enough hits together you can "peak" your damage.

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Quoted from Statesman.

And then he gave it to brutes.


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This is too funny.

Not only that, he gave the current tanker inherent in a slightly weaker form to brutes too as a FREEBIE!!

Yup.. we can see what he was thinking... COV is where the new customers are.

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No matter how many times I heard "We'll never balance PVE around PVP" I always knew this would happen.

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If anybody ever said "We'll never balance PvE around PvP," it wasn't a person with any authority. Statesman has said several times that they prefer to not balance that way and that they try to avoid it, but he made no guarantees.

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QFT. I'm sure I heard "we'll never make a change in PvE for PvP" a million times before I4. Sadly, the only people who ever said it were players...

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States kept giving this implication after many many many players showed their distaste for any pvp at all.

And these are the reasons why.

He might never have said it, but he certainly gave that impression.

Oh yeah just like no more major nerfs to powers... Clinton speak at its highest form.

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No matter how many times I heard "We'll never balance PVE around PVP" I always knew this would happen.

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If anybody ever said "We'll never balance PvE around PvP," it wasn't a person with any authority. Statesman has said several times that they prefer to not balance that way and that they try to avoid it, but he made no guarantees.

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Yes but again this shows why NON pvpers despise pvp so damn much.

IT sucks the life out of the pve game even if you never touch pvp.

Pvp stinks, it never helps and usually hurts and adds to the game for very very few people.

Go to any pvp zone and listen to crickets chirp.

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From Castle's post :

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I think you're letting your ATist rhetoric blind you to the point that Castle's list strictly discusses solo PvP, which he explicitly qualifies. Furthermore, he goes on to vaguely suggest that PvP-performance hierarchy is wholly different on teams -- which is ostensibly what PvP is built around.

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In team play, most AT's are within 30% of one another. The few exceptions should be looked at. Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors and Dominators are NOT at the bottom of this list, by any stretch.

"Release the numbers" -- I can't. It really is proprietary info, and the generalities I'm providing are about as far as I can go.

"OMG! He's nerfing EM!" -- Nope, at least not for I7.

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Could it be that tankers are the exception that are going to be "looked at" in terms of PvP?

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It makes sense.

Tanks are AWFUL in pvp, though I really thought dominators were/are worse.

This does bring me some potential worry.

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Not putting the bow away when using other powers. Brawl is the only attack power in the game that allows you to not put your weapon away when attacking with it. Brawl also took more animation time by several multiples than any other power in the game. Doing something similar with every power which could be used in conjunction with Archery/Trick Arrow simply isn't feasible.

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Okay noted.

That being so....why can't you give us an archery/TA blaster????

So I can quit playing my TA/archery def like she was a gimped blaster instead.

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You know Trick arrow would make a better blaster secondary that defender primary its so bad.

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In the game, having all the animations be as quick as snap shot would definitely decrease the visual appeal of the set.

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I think the problem isn't the animation movements quite so much as the "stand there and hold still" before and after drawing. That, and the fact that somehow the bow strings issued by Freedom Corps must be really noisy, since with cloaking device and group invisibility mobs can still sometimes hear me pull back the bow string and will start attacking before the arrow ever even fires.

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If any of you have ever seen a movie called "Hawk, the Slayer" you'll remember how absolutely silly the archer in that looked.

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You mean that wasn't the inspiration for the Archery primary??? Darn, there goes my hope for the Full-Auto Archery Epic...

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The problem is as long as they are, I dont care how pretty they are when only 50 people are playing them.

It doesnt make sense that you should put aesthetics before functionality.

The other problem is that the effect isnt strong enough on alot of the powers for a set with no heals and no buffs.

Flash arrow has less acc debuff than darks HEAL.

Disruption arrow has 2/3 the effect and 3x the recharge of tar patch as well as tar patch having a slow and being much earlier.

Glue arrow needs to be up more often.

Snap shot and Aimed shot need their damage increased if the animation cant be decreased.

The set still needs help.

At least till you get to something like the villian respec or the villian HO trial.

Unlike hami, no dead weight is going to be able to get hami'o viliian side.

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I7 changes:

1) Working on Oil Slick. I think I have the 'oil doesn't always light' bug fixed (hard to tell - it never failed on my box, but it was replicatable here.) I refered the 'wrong team in PvP zones' issue to programming.
2) Poison Gas Arrow -- this should work the same for all AT's now.
3) Archery: Fistful of Arrows, Rain of Arrows and Ranged Shot animations shortened.

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There are still a few more problems

1. Glue arrows recharge is too long for an early dependant on power

2. Flash arrows effect is too small for an early dependant on power.

3. Net arrow, single target immob's are still considered mostly useless except for controllers trying to initiate containment. Animation too long also.

4. acid arrows area is too small.

5. Disruption arrow is 3 times longer recharge and 2/3 the debuff of tar patch.

6. The rest of archery's animations are too long also.

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You dont see controllers outdamaging dominators as a problem?

I dont consider controllers overpowered because they traded alot of their control for damage, controllers dont control nearly as well as they used to, but they do get close to defender damage.

At least there are some good defender sets. Except for plant/en I havent seen any great dominator sets.

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Actually I still feel that Controllers got too big a boost to damage. With the information that Controllers can use some secondaries better than Defenders their primaries, it's just being magnified.

No, I'm not saying repeal Containment, just change containment so that it is not as big a bonus.

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They would have to give some control back then otherwise controllers would just be in the same boat as dominators. Cant control enough and cant damage enough.

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Well, at least you spelled out why you don't like them.(unlike the person I initially responded to) I can respect that. Why don't we both wait for the hard numbers and then rejoin this topic, ok?

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Dont think the numbers are going to help.

The base power choices are poor.

Dominators so desperatly need a build up its not even funny. Yet they give them end recoveries, they dont need end recoveries they need damage enhancers.

The powers themselves are wrong, the numbers wont help it.

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Um? They already have their click domination power that boosts damage and mezzing? Why do they need another damage boost?

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Dominator damage is already lower than controller damage post 35 or so, the only hope for bringing it back in line was a damage booster.

the only time dom's outdamage controllers is when Domination is active but over the course of a mission controllers run higher over time if they took a damage boosting secondary. Rad/emp/Kin and a pet primary.

Dom's needed something really impressive to make up for it.

Also lets remember villians are locked heros arent.

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So Domination, AOE hold then nuke wouldn't be a viable post-38 tactic? Heck, pop a *couple* of reds for maximage damage.

I'm almost positive that the reason there isn't an "extra" damage boost power is because of this innate. Yes, over time Dominators do less damage than Controllers, but that's because Controllers are *broken* this way.

The low damage AT *easily* outdoes Defender. Defenders really are the red-headed stepchildren of the CoH ATs.

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You dont see controllers outdamaging dominators as a problem?

I dont consider controllers overpowered because they traded alot of their control for damage, controllers dont control nearly as well as they used to, but they do get close to defender damage.


At least there are some good defender sets. Except for plant/en I havent seen any great dominator sets.

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Well, at least you spelled out why you don't like them.(unlike the person I initially responded to) I can respect that. Why don't we both wait for the hard numbers and then rejoin this topic, ok?

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Dont think the numbers are going to help.

The base power choices are poor.

Dominators so desperatly need a build up its not even funny. Yet they give them end recoveries, they dont need end recoveries they need damage enhancers.

The powers themselves are wrong, the numbers wont help it.

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Um? They already have their click domination power that boosts damage and mezzing? Why do they need another damage boost?

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Dominator damage is already lower than controller damage post 35 or so, the only hope for bringing it back in line was a damage booster.

the only time dom's outdamage controllers is when Domination is active but over the course of a mission controllers run higher over time if they took a damage boosting secondary. Rad/emp/Kin and a pet primary.

Dom's needed something really impressive to make up for it.

Also lets remember villians are locked heros arent.

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Im actually wondering

IS this an APRIL FOOLS JOKE?

I cant believe they would actually put out powersets this bad, and not have then changeable.

They are so inferior to the hero versions that are changeable. I just dont see it.

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Thats a lot to say before we know the #'s on even one power. What if all attacks are twice as powerfull as Epics? or the defense shields are twice as strong?

The only real issue i see is that many peple mya have a hard time making one of the pools fit with a current character concept. I mean we have almost nothing water related in game and then all of a sudden we are tossing sharks at people. Don't get me wrong, im all for a good shark tossing, it was just never in the cards before.

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The problem is the powers are wrong the numbers dont really matter.

Dominators for example need, I mean desperatly need a damage enhancer, and I dont see any build up type powers in their.

At least corruptors get soul drain which kinda bothers me since both my corruptors are going to have to take ghost widow even though it doesnt fit either one.

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Well, at least you spelled out why you don't like them.(unlike the person I initially responded to) I can respect that. Why don't we both wait for the hard numbers and then rejoin this topic, ok?

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Dont think the numbers are going to help.

The base power choices are poor.

Dominators so desperatly need a build up its not even funny. Yet they give them end recoveries, they dont need end recoveries they need damage enhancers.

The powers themselves are wrong, the numbers wont help it.

I would if they just cut and paste.

But at least it would be fair.

Instead they just cut and pasted all the mediocre powers and just added in the minions.

I mean come on they could of at least put in some of the good powers.

Im actually wondering

IS this an APRIL FOOLS JOKE?

I cant believe they would actually put out powersets this bad, and not have then changeable.

They are so inferior to the hero versions that are changeable. I just dont see it.

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Wow.

I am completely dissappointed by all those powers.



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Well... what exactly were you expecting to get?

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Same powers heros get.

build up, conserve power, Powerboost, focused accuracy..

Any of the good powers? anything to make it worth being locked into all the power and not being able to change.

So we are locked in and have weaker sets than heros

I just dont see the fairness here.

Agree very disapointed.

Compared to the hero App's these are severly lacking

No focused acc, no build up, no conserve power.

They look like the App's with all the must have powers taken out and then we are locked into them too and cant spec out thats fair.

Why dont we just hand Pvp to the hero and call it a day.

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Patron Powers are truly permanent. This powerset, once chosen, is as much a part of your character as your Name, Primary Powerset, Secondary Powerset, Body Type, and Origin.

There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.

Because of this, hard numbers are given, in-game, about the powers and what they do before you even choose which arc you wish to partake (and will most likely be available on the website as well).

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Do you think this is even remotly fair to villian characters?

Heros can respec out of their ancilleries if they choose badly. So villians cant. Most villian At's are already considered weaker than their hero counterparts this isnt going to help things.

Its a bad design decision.

Okie I want to ask a related question, also yay first post.

What about the fact that fire has 4 situational useless powers.

1 Temp protection... really useless... there isnt enough fire or cold for it to matter.

2 Fiery embrace... situational, unless you are fire/fire its usefullness is highly questionable.

3 Rotp..... a tank shouldnt need a self res and it doesnt even come close to being as good as granite or unstop

4 Burn... a power that deaggros mobs and makes them run and gets your team killed is questionable at best.


Also what about the contention that regen can take more damage over time than fire.

There are elevators in the arachnos bases too like on mercy, the flat area is easy but ive gotten stuck in mercy.

I really hope we get a freespec in issue 7, I suspect one is coming anyway for aniversery.