Shadowstepper

That wasn't constructive either....

Here is an extremist from the other side of the arguement. Niether is better than the other.

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Yes, "there has been farming always", but before I14 institutionalized the farming in a dev-supported manner, it was something that was a whole hell of a lot easier to ignore. And it didn't have anywhere near the impact on teaming to do things other than farming. Yes, the problems were there before, but all I14 did was aggravate them.

And let's get one thing straight right now. Despite what the Farmheads keep saying here and in the other forum threads, the City of Farming issue is a problem. It is harming the game experience (that is, the *FUN*) for a lot of players. And when a player isn't having fun, he'll take his $15 a month (or in my case, $60 a month... my kids all have their own accounts too) somewhere else. If that happens often enough, the devs might regret giving sanction to farming through I14.


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So, because you don't like doing it, it isn't fun for someone else? I don't like sewing, that doesn't mean my grandmother doesn't enjoy doing it.

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Regarding the non-play issue. I'm another person who spent several hours putting together a mission with an actual storyline, only to see it NEVER GET PLAYED because its been forced to the bottom of the list after all the farking farms. That's frustrating, and frustrating = NOT FUN. More reason for me to not renew my subscription to CoH. And I'm not the only one.

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Maybe noone liked your story? custom mobs? made it too difficult? Or, I know, A lot of people enjoy playing a different type of game than you enjoy. That doesn't invalidate their opinions in the slightest and their rankings are quite valid. Just because you like it, doesn't mean the rest of the playerbase does.

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To all you hairballs who say "move to a different server", I've got 36 alts on my primary server. I've been playing on that server since I started the game. Why the hell should I walk just because you jerks are ruining the server for me now?

Yeah, its a personal problem. Its just a game. But you know what? If we were sitting across a table "just playing a game" and you guys acted in the idiotic manner the farmers act, I'd toss your [censored] out of my house. Because "just a game" isn't a reason to piss all over other people.

Just my three drachmas. Your mileage obviously varies.

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I have never suggested anyone move to a different server, with the exception of lowbies I occassionally meet who are trying to roleplay. To them, I always recommend a transfer to virtue (yes, i know RPers exist other places, but if you are sending a new player to the highest concentration, that would be the place)as the unofficial home of RP in the CoX universe. However, if you choose not to use the tools provided to streamline your experience, there is nothing anyone can do for you.

Carnage Creeper broadcasts "50 troller LF AEFarm"
Amazing Arnold broadcasts "lvl4 blaster LF Sewer"
Jack the Quick broadcasts "LF SewerTrial"
Samuri Sam broadcasts "LF Statesman TF"

Every one of these is a viable, propper chat. If many more people wish to do one than the other...so be it.

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When everyone in the zone/raid instance/server instance complains of the exact same symptoms with different client hardware, the problem is most likely NOT on the clients.

Granted, there will be some variation, but when the extreme issues move from the ends of the bell curve to smack in the middle, then "upgrade your computer" ceases to be a viable option. At that point it's simply server and network congestion, and no amout of money thrown at Alienware, Newegg, or <insert high-end computer vendor here> will help, much. Instead the people running the servers need to call THEIR vendors and say, "OK, we need to add X, Y, and Z, because we've so much going on we're dropping traffic to and from the clients."

Or, alternatively, balance things out, so that a large crowd engaged in one activity don't add to the lag and server load of another crowd doing another activity in the same instance. My idea was to make the AE complex similar to Ouroboros or Pocket D, its OWN ZONE, and that clicking on the building entrance would transport you there.

We would lose out on the 'cool view'... but I'd trade that for lag any day. Shoot, set the markets up this way too. That'll limit market lag to only those people at the market (if the zone is big enough you can set it up as several vendors spread out in a large area instead of just one), and the city zones won't hiccup at all. It also becomes easier to instance, so as you get more crowds, you start making Market 2, AE 2, etc etc.

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Wow, didn't read huh? That particular tidbit was in response to how to get less lag during ship raid or hami. That was why I made sure to quote it in my post.

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The problem being, those of us who *don't* like AE farming are paying our $15 a month and are having our fun impacted by you having yours. Tell me, chumley... what makes your fun more important than mine? If what you do frustrates me and causes me to want to pull my hair out, why should I just sit and blindly let you continue to do it?

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Thank you for illustrating my example of extremists. Until you pay my subscription or become one of the developers, you have no say in how I play my game. Just like I have no say over yours.

I run all my arcs when testing on 5.

First i run with a ss/wp brute
then a mind/elec dom
then a fire/storm corr
then a rad/sonc corr

I expect the first two to be fine, the 3rd to be relatively good if i keep on my toes, and the last to hopefully make it through. If it survives that, I log the ss/wp back in, invite a full group up of random peeps from my sg, and go through. Until the last can be done with almost any character combination, it doesn't stay.

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QFT, the lag in atlas is nothing compared to hami or RWZ

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I am painfully aware of this fact. As demonstrated by the Anniversary event, where I had to leave after 20 minutes of being able to only do two things reliably - Stand Around and Die.

Now... if I could only figure out how to FIX the problem...

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Welp, your first step would be to optimise your settings for performance instead of quality. If that is already the case, you would need better bandwidth, a faster motherboard, a more powerful video card, or some combination of the above.

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The problem is there is no set rule about farming. There is a rule against exploits, and we all agree they should be removed once identified and verified. No matter where you set the bar, people like me will ride that line as hard and as fast as humanly possible.

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Technically, there is one actual rule about farming: customer support (GMs) are allowed to remove missions believed to be farming missions from the architect system. So if you want to be very technical, the rule is farming is allowed if it's undetected and unreported.


One other point about rules. Our office's internet feed currently operates under a soft-cap. We pay for a specific level of bandwidth, but the circuit isn't capped to that level: we can use more temporarily. There is no specific set rule on how much we can exceed that level by, or for how long. And we burst over it all the time. But so long as our bursts aren't "excessive" we aren't required to purchase higher levels of bandwidth.

If I were to tell our provider "look, you tell me what my limit is, and I will ride that level right up to the limit: don't give me any of this 'reasonable' crap" they'd be happy to oblige by setting a hard cap for me and me alone.


I sometimes feel the same should be done in this case: everyone that explicitly asks for a hard cap defined by the devs should get one applied to them and them alone. Everyone else that can deal with reasonable judgement-defined limits should operate under those instead. It would seem to me this explicitly falls under the general principle of givng players what they want, within the limits of the game design. The people that want hard limits get them. The people that are ok with soft limits gets those instead.

That certainly satisfies every game-balance design rule I can think of.

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Actually, the first two report pulls are a function of reports vs positive rankings and are automatically done by computerized system, not actual customer service. If you want customer service you have to wait for further offences after republishing the mission or petition them.

This is why people who write stories about some pumpkinhead revolt on a farm map name Carnage on the Farm or something have their mission pulled. Why? Not because someone actually checked and pulled it, but because an idiot searched the word farm and blindly reported everything that came up. Both sides have extremists and I hope they both get banned.

But If i have a mission I am comfortable with running, run it repeatedly for my tickets, and enjoy doing it, so be it. I could give 2 shakes for it's artistic merit. I had fun playing it. My favorite mision on the AE at the moment is nothing but hordes and hordes of lvl 50 zombie bosses coming at me like something from night of the living dead. I run it atleast 2x a day. Like I have said many times. Until there is a rule, guideline, or mission statement somewhere, I'll keep my play like i have it. Posi himself says the Dev's are in mixed sentiments about farming and limits and the system in place is the solution. Wallah, I am within my limits to use said system to meet my gaming desires.

Bottom line, if no exploits are being used, it isn't illegal. Just like it isn't wrong to use the ITF over and over to level, it isn't wrong to speed run TF for maximised merits, and it isn't wrong to circle certain areas of certain maps hunting mobs for badges.

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I did think about making it just hitting each other with rocks. It's still abusive behavior, but not necessarily lethal.

But let's try to strip that out. The argument seems to be that because a certain type of play cannot be entirely prevented, no efforts at all should be made to do so? Farming is being presented as a fait accompli, and that everyone should just give up and accept it. Laws cannot be 100% enforced; therefore, there should be no laws. Anything goes. Anarchy.

I suggest you look up the fallacy of the excluded middle. The devs' inability to do away with all exploits and forms of farming as soon as they arise does not consititute official endorsement or tolerance of same. And if one entirely rejects their authority to say whether it's right or not, because the cold practical fact is they can't stop it entirely, that doesn't mean we should just accept its presence either.

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Once more, you seem to be confused between exploit and farm. Exploits are bad. They are to be found, reported, and removed. Farms are nothing more than finding the most effective path to your goal and repeating it over and over until your goal is reached.

You seem to be laboring under the impression that there is a rule against farming. There isn't. Farming is not encouraged or intended, but it is by no means outlawed. If you can prove me wrong, I will retract my statements and champion your cause. However, the fact remains that while some of the administrative staff is antifarm, including Posi...the official position of the game leaves the method viable as long as exploits are not being used.

If you don't think farming is accepted, look at merits. Without doing TF every day, especially redside, It would take you forever and a day to get the merits needed for one set of rare recipies, much less a build worth.

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Amen brother ! Exploits are a different matter than farming.

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Unfortunately, not everyone understands that.

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TBH, I don't understand why atleast 1 of those 50 employees working on CoX doesnt have the unique job of playing through possible "farm" AE missions and "clicking delete" when he comes across them.
And then going 1 step farther and giving people 24 hour bans to put any new arcs up per account.

I love to farm <3

But I thought I read along time ago now, from a DEV where they said AE was NOT for farming.

I know any entire SG who 1 stars arcs if they arent farms... Wow. WTG. GREAT.

And I also think the rating system needs a total overhaul.

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And what is wrong with someone 1 staring a mission??? I'm sure you do it to missions you don't like. Why can't they do it to missions they don't like? The ratings are a beauty contest, nothing more. You may have made the Mona Lisa of missions, but that doesn't mean you are going to appeal to everyone.

As far as someone playing through and deleting "farms" from the AE. Probably because nowhere is it listed amongst the rules or Dev postings that farming is against the rules. Only in the use of exploits. So why would they pay someone to delete things that are not against the rules?

QFT, the lag in atlas is nothing compared to hami or RWZ

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04-28-2009 17:57:54 [Local] Positron: Yes, if you lodge Complaints against the farms, they can be taken care of


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That's from Positron on test...

Guess this is settled!


EDIT: Removed "So I guess that means that the official position is that we should complain about farms." from the quote. I don't think that was from Posi, but the poster who transcribed the chat. Was a little misleading.

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Posi has gone on record numerous times that he personally is against farming. However, In his own letter he has stated that the Dev's as a unit have "debated with loud voices" the point numerous times as to what limits if any should be imposed. The current system is what we have. Until they post something somewhere 'officially' that this is now against the rules, the behavior will be continued.

Exploits are wrong, and that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about farming for max reward possible. If that is running Lib for exp, speed running TF/SF for merits, Slaughtering hundreds of mobs in the AE for tickets, street sweeping for badges...it is all farming. You are repeating the same action over and over to accomplish your stated goal. What is the purpose of merits if not to run meritable content over and over to get enough merits to buy what you want from them...especially villian side where the merits you get from standard content is much much lower than blueside.

Also...what you think is a farm, I might think is a brute challenge mission, or that 10yr old might think of as this really cool mission I made. Not everyone is Shakespear or Clancy with plot twists and entrancing narative. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to express themselves as well. If they were creative masters...wouldn't they be developers, authors, playwrites, in their own right?

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Unless there is a change to the rules or an official guidline issued, use the rating system...that is what it is for. If you like it rate it high, if you don't, rate it low. Leave the report button for actual reportable offences like language, racist terms, sexual content. Remember, that report button cuts both ways. If you report too many missions for what you think is wrong that really isn't...you loose your privalges as well.

All in all it reminds me of the arguements for drugs, prostitution, and most notably prohibition. Until the law is set, it is legal. Right now we are still legal, so enjoy.

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It's unfortunate that so many people who are complaining about the negative impacts farms have had on them don't simply embrace creating ways to enable farming in a controlled manner that impacts non-farmers the least.

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These are usually the same people who cheer the fact that market prices on the nonpurple recipies have dropped down to the point anyone can build tricked out builds....but it happens because people are putting huge amounts of supply out from the farms.

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There's no telling. I can't picture any. The only way i can see a mix would be diff tiers of pets. Don't know if i'd be interested in demons, myself.

I'd like to see Oni (ninja pet) changed to look like a samurai and not a demon himself.

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Even though an Oni is a "demon" of the region's folklore?

So did you show them? Or did you just point and laugh making them want to leave that much more?

You can't have it both ways...you can't complain about people not being in the zones and then ridicule those who step out of the AE and ask you questions about the game.

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ok, yes, there IS a way... but it requires you to somehow get rid of the tickets that you have which would put you over your cap...

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That would still require you to stop what you are doing, leave, clear your tickets, re enter, and continue....who cares? I would rather finish much quicker, get my end bonus to take me to cap, and repeat.

The fact you found a way to sidestep the cap doesn't change the fact that there is one.

asking for pads or leeching never hurts, but don't be upset when someone says no. I am a farmer and the only time I pad someone else is when i'm at the BM or respecing or something where I know I'll be stationary.

However, there is a large difference between 3 minutes to spawn a map and a hours worth of free exp doorsitting.

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I don't have an issue with people "testing the limits" of the system.

I *do* have a problem when those people get indignant when you suggest that maybe, just maybe, the Devs didn't intend for people to level from 1 to 50 in less than a day and, perhaps, techniques which allow such levelling are destined to be nerfed.

They're like those people who put money in Swiss bank accounts to evade taxes and then get pissed off when the US government negotiates with Switzerland to get their account information handed over.

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And I still say that until the law is changed to close the loophole with said negotiations, then there is nothing to be done. If there was a law that stated anyone who owned an American car had to pay 60 percent fewer taxes, would you take advantage of it, or would you continue to pay higher taxes and not claim the deduction because it isn't fair to someone who owns a nondomestic automobile. Would you go buy some 500 dollar clunker to sit in your front yard so you would qualify? I know I would.

If I am given a rule, that is my limit. I don't exceed said limit. But until the rule is changed to get rid of the behavior I use, I will continue to do it. The police may not like my use of firearms, but since I live outside of the city limits, on private property, there isn't much they can do about it. On they day they expand the city limits to incorperate my house and I come under that set of ordinances, my hobbies will change....or atleast the location of my firing range will.

The problem is there is no set rule about farming. There is a rule against exploits, and we all agree they should be removed once identified and verified. No matter where you set the bar, people like me will ride that line as hard and as fast as humanly possible.

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Go farm if you want, but don't harass me by sending me a tell to join you or to ask me to fill.
As far as I'm concerned, tells from farmers asking me to fill are SPAM. And they will be reported as such from now on.

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I'll fill anyone's mish - 10,000,000 INF up front, and they have 2 minutes to spawn. I'll even cut them a deal. I'll pad twice for 16,000,000, that's a 4,000,000 savings, but you have to act now!

I actually find fill requests to be totally, totally obnoxious, but the offer stands.

Perhaps a better response - "Yeah, filling is good, but howsbout I just come in mish and leech instead, you cool with that?"

Back in my plvling days - and I was killing more warwolves than ANYONE ELSE on Virtue for months - I invited leechers. It spawned more lts, which gave everyone more xp. Quid Pro Quo, farmers, quid pro quo.

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Sorry mate,

I only let SGmates and occasionally Coalition members leech from me...but then I'm not farming for exp, when I want fills. When I want fills it is for inf/ prestige/ tickets/ enhancements/ recipies, which defeats the point of you being inside the zone while I'm killing. Maybe if you turn over all loot recieved from drops and ticket rolls as well as infamy I will let you suck the exp up all you want.

But then we are back to paying for farms aren't we? Something I thought most of us were glad to be rid of.

Ignore and Ignore as Spammer

I am a farmer and I still use these regularly, especially those who deem it necessary to RP with their group or friends across public, zone wide channels. I did the same thing to lowbies who repeatedly spammed lff messages as well as those who who spammed Lib TV LF paying lowbie, 15m/run. I do not use my ignores lightly, I usually even send a tell or two asking for the behavior to be taken to tells or private channel. 95 percent of the time there is little problem and ignore isn't needed, 5 percent of the time i get @#!% you #@#$ I'll do what I want. Wallah, welcome to ignore land.

Terrible idea, OP. Why then, would any average, leveling player go to the MA when after two or three missions the rewards aren't there for them until the next day. Why do you run a TF instead of AE...for the chance at a purp. All the AE did was allow me to run tickets solo for my loot instead of having to find 3-5 other people to go do a TF, of which 1 or 2 are always invariable lost, slow, leeching, afk, unable to stealth, something...even though they know it is a speed run. Now I don't have to hold anyone's hand or babysit unless I want to. Leave my AE alone, go play yours however you like.

I don't know, never seen that myself....and no, farms haven't gone anywhere, you are just on a much less populated server.

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What about level limiting MA missions so that you aren't auto-skd? You'd need an actual mentor to sk/lk you.

That'd put MA in line with the rest of the game and you wouldn't have to reduce xp rewards. You could still 'farm' if you want to, but you'd have to have a team with enough higher levels to sk/lk the rest.

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And then you go back to pay farms being rampant....

No exp from portals

And no, YOU don't get a ranged attacks, custom mobs from the architect do. most sets get some throwing knives, some get shuriken, a few get set based flavor...gloom for DM, etc.

alot of things have fear effects in them, you could be triggering one and not realize it.