Shadowe

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OMG, a bunch of naked heroes with Ice Cream, chocolate sprinkles or with thongs having a pina colada :S
Scaring

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...

Sounds like a normal day at the office to me.

/Entered. I need a 4th PC.

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The sad thing was that this thread was always going to end this way. It has become a testament to ego getting in the way of fun. Posts insisting that a given way of playing or interpretation of the game is 'correct' could be collectively considered a parallel example of how the game is NOT supposed to be played.

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^This.

I'm not going to get into a petty argument with Gravitos (which would frankly be silly).

I play this game because of the genre. I like superheroes as a setting for a game. I like the idea of making my own hero and playing through stories. Would I have bought this game if it had been an offline, solo game? Probably, yeah. Would I still be playing it 3 years later? Not likely.

However I (pretty much - there were a couple of minor exceptions) soloed my main from L1 to about L35. I was perfectly happy doing it that way, and was quite prepared to solo all the way to 50, and was looking forward to it, so that I could roll an Epic, and play that, too. At the time I couldn't have cared less about teaming, socialising, RPing or whatever. I was having fun playing the game the way I wanted to play it at the time.

Then I became involved in the RP scene (something I'd been hovering around the very edges of for a while before I actually did anything about it), and I haven't looked back.

My sub, my choice to solo, my interpretation of what the game means. And it was damn good fun, too.

Now, Cryptic/NC may have originally wanted it to be all about the teams and the interaction, but that doesn't mean that all of their players feel the same way. The aim, at the end of the day, is to have fun. As long as your fun doesn't wreck someone else's, I see no problem with playing however you want, whether that's solo, teaming, farming, PvPing or whatever. But, IMO, there is no guiding principal in this game that says "If you aren't socially interacting, you're playing it wrong".

I'm going to go out on a limb and flat-out disagree with you, and say that the main focus of the game is to have fun. Whether you choose to have that fun solo or with other people is utterly beside the point.

The game may have the option to interact with others in it, but it's not required, and several things in the game are there to enable solo play, rather than discourage it.

Blatantly obvious to whom?

Let me see... When I'm mishing, roughly 70% of it is solo. About 30% is in teams. This accounts for about 25% of my time in-game. The rest of it is spent socialising/RPing.

So, the main focus of the game for me is socialising/RP. Not teaming. I'm going to stand by MaX and agree that soloing might not be the main focus of the game for you, but that doesn't mean it isn't for everyone.

To break it down a little more:

Virgin Media, cable, South West region. No problems.

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Unfortunatelly /stuck command doesn't fix it for me.
A /resync command on the other hand, will be a good solution. But if they build a resync function, they could also make the client to resync anyway at each zoning instead of adding it as a command, don't you think?

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I think the client is meant to check synch with the server when you zone anyway (would be pretty darn awful if it didn't), but in all likelihood there is a packet loss somewhere (very interesting that it's affecting so many people at once) in the process that means that the client thinks it's synched, but the server doesn't. Adding an extra synch to the zone-load would slow it down (by how much I'm not sure). Chances are this would be unreasonable to implement, as the redundancy involved could be prohibitive (not saying it would be, just that it could be).

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I believe that the problem is two-fold:<ul type="square">[*]They can't replicate the problem in-house[*]Not enough people provide info about the problem[/list]
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An inability to replicate the bug in-house means one of two things: a) the devs are simply unable to see evidence of this bug or b) they have so far failed to determine a consistent set of circumstances that causes the bug to trigger. If it was happening to me, I'd be /petition-ing like crazy in an effort to provide as many data as I could. As Holmes said, once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, is the solution. Right now, thanks to the lack of data that support have, they have not been able to eliminate the impossible. So, I implore and beg that each and every person who experiences this bug, please /petition it each and every time, and encourage any other people you see in-game who suffer it to do the same. It won't get fixed until they know what it is.

That said, since some of it seem to be able to be resolved on the client computer, it implies that there is a problem with how v17 deals with some firewalls/routers/Anti-virus software. I wonder what changes have been made to how the game contacts the game servers that could cause these to be an issue.

Actually, thinking on that, can anyone verify that /stuck does not work to resolve this issue? (I'm not affected by it, and it's only ever hit me once, and I don't recall any reference to this elsewhere in this thread.)

This idea gets my seal of approval.

Right now there are no reasons to street-sweep, except for the odd hunt mish, or to get badges, and to give a little incentive to do so would be great.

I, too, enjoy a bit of street-sweeping on some of my toons, so yes, well and truly /SIGNED

I'll just direct everyone's attention to this part of GR's post:

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Unfortunately it appears that for some players this bug has become more prevalent / severe since the Issue 12 launch. If you are affected, we request that you contact support and include some additional information:

* How many characters on your account are affected?
* How many characters are not affected?
* What are the affected character names?
* How severely are you affected? Are you affected occasionally, or is the character becoming desynced every time you zone into a new map?

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Emphasis mine.

Tears cannot wash away the pain of our loss
Our hearts are torn by your leaving
Our memories of you will not fade
Our lives, for now, filled with grieving

A friend, a mentor, a light in the dark
A voice to which we pay heed
We remember you for who you were
Your thoughts and every deed

We know, for the future, the pain will fade
In a distant time we can't see
We remember you, Owen, for the man that you are:
Mighty, you will always be.

- Shadowe, 2008.

Update time!

Global Name : @Shadowe/@Luminescence - dual-box capable
Server : Union (there's another English server in the EU?)
City of Heroes/City of Villains for RP :

@Shadowe
Shadowe(CoH) (Far, far more than any of the others)
Shadowe Knight (CoH) (Cossie-slot monkey for Shadowe)
Dark Shadowe (CoV) (For Rogue Isles RP)
Luminescence (CoH) (Don't ask)
Samantha Huntington (CoH)
Helena H Mk 1 (CoH)
Psychonova (CoV)
Maera (CoH) (Very rare)
Liz Ross (CoH) (Very rare)

@Luminescence
Sam Huntington (CoH)
Mindlight (CoV) (For Rogue Isles RP)
Helena H Mk 2.1 (CoH)
Helena H Mk 4 (CoH)
Andrea Huntington (CoH) (Plot character. Very rare)

Types of RP : Casual, In missions, Supergroup and character based.
Can be contacted : In-game mail, Forum PM's, /tell, Global tell
Times on : Pretty much every evening except Wednesdays, and weekends
Time zone : British Standard Time.

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Also it just doesn't make sense Vanguard would want you to go get a Security Rating rather than just trial you, especially when they're assigned by Freedom Corp. Which Vanguard don't particularly get along with, what with them occupying the same warzone in a rather bitter rivalry.

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Security Levels are assigned by the FBSA, not Miss Liberty's Freedom Corps. The FBSA branches DATA, SERAPH, MAGI etc have branch offices in both City Hall and the main Freedom Corps building, but the major difference, according to Paragon Wiki, between Freedom Corps and Hero Corp is that FC don't charge for their services.

The answer? Because Security Level is used in the game world. Your ability to have a job, enter buildings, interact with civilians etc, etc ad nauseum is not.

We fudge aside game mechanics on how powers work, true, but because Security Level has an impact on your ability to interact with the game-world, and because it is specifically drawn to your attention in certain situations (like Hazard Zone entry), we feel that we have to give it a nod.

Edit: Also, please note that I don't use CL very much. I have a Peacebringer version of my main (for cossie slots, mostly), who is L30 currently. But my main is L50. When I'm playing my PB I don't assume he's suddenly dropped in SL. A character is as powerful as the player says it is. But in terms of NPC interaction your SL matters, though there's nothing that says "your SL is this on this character, and you can't pretend otherwise". Of course, if I want to go into the RWZ, I'll take my main, not my PB.

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True and if said unregistered person was talking about stuff that would require a clearance level to obtain and said registered character knew the other character wasn't registered I'd expect the unregistered person to have some explanation as to how they got in there.

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Glad we agree on that

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But while IC assuming everyone does things the same way as you is fine slightly naive but pretty much normal characterization for most people in the world, OOC claiming its the only way because you use certain game play mechanics in way X is a bit much.

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AHA! And this is where the problem lies. I am not and never have claimed that "thus and so is the only way to do it". What I have done is say that "thus and so is how the game-world assumes it works". Break the mould. That's where good characters come from. But by the same token, since the game-world assumes things work in a particular way (enforced by the game-mechanics), people need to consider the consequences of going against the flow with their characters.

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I'm still waiting for an answer as to why they'd let a normal guy into a war zone, with out his power armour thats the source of all his abilities, just because he'd brought along the correct piece of ID.

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Because they'll assume he's not idiotic enough to commit suicide. He has the right SL. He can get in. If he chooses to kill himself in the process, well, it was his choice to get in in the first place.

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I'd also like to know why they 'trust' you less when your being side kicked, and why if your security level goes down you forget how to use your powers.

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I assume you mean exemped, not SK'd? In which case, they're worried that you might harm your companion, and so will refuse you entry. As for loss of powers - you're there to help someone less experienced than you improve - would you really waste their learning process by going all-out with your own powers?

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I mean since were all apparently playing the game wrong maybe those who are playing it correctly can tell us why this happens?

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I certainly don't think anyone's playing the game wrong, I just happen to think that it's possible to come up with realistic explanations for some game-mechanical effects that will allow us to explain why those game-mechanical effects impact our characters without requiring that each and every character comes up with their own explanation. But if you want to create your own, then go for it!

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Please note I have reached the point after a late night where I become made out of unprocessed sarcasium.

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I think we're starting to come close to an accord, here.

A few basic assumptions, to start.

1) No one wants to limit creativity.

2) The game-world is real.

3) There are reasonable game-world explanations as to why some game-mechanical effects exist.

4) You are not tied to those limits, but can use them.

With those assumptions in place, you can say that your character is registered or not. A member of a certain organisation or not. A hero or a villain. Good or evil. Rich or poor. Drives or doesn't.

Game-world lore includes some tidbits of information such as the fact that Vanguard won't let just anyone into the RWZ. There are MANY explanations as to why your character can or cannot get in. However, the default assumption is that heroes are registered and have a Security Level, and once that rating pops up to 35, Vanguard will happily let them through. Interesting characters, however, spring from people who aren't cookie-cutter, but is it unreasonable for players and characters to assume unless they found out otherwise, IC that the default assumption is the right one?

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I think you missed the part where I said IC like most unregistered heroes I've met there are certain things you can't do.

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Looks like I totally missed it, too.

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Now whether some one can RP them selves as an unregistered character with all the perks a registered gets is another matter and up to their skill and back story.

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And here we are in perfect accord. FFM and I are saying that it is possible to come up with a standardised explanation for certain aspects of game-mechanics. If you choose to buck the system with a character, that's fine. Have a L40 hero (unregistered) cheat to get into the RWZ. Go for it! It's my kind of interesting characterisation, and I'd love to see how Richard would interact with someone who lied and cheated that way!

BUT we have a ready-made explanation for why some characters can't do things, and it's tied to their Security Level, so why not use it?

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Why can't he be let in IC though regardless Fans huh? Stop dodging the question! Well if it was my character I think the easiest explanation would be he simply doesn't want to join Vanguard! Perhaps he always freezes when asked to do the induction, perhaps he doesn't like the idea of the organization and their methods, perhaps he's just a total klutz!

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Hehehehe.

Fair explanation as to why he wouldn't want to go in. But my point is that in the game-world Vanguard won't let him in. He's capable. He's willing. But they still refuse him at the door. And the reason they give is that his Security Level isn't high enough to be allowed, by them, into the warzone. When I said we work with what we're given, I meant it - and one thing we're given is that if your SL isn't high enough, the authorities in charge don't want you to do certain things. If someone wants to create a character that Vanguard don't trust, that hates the FBSA oversight and assigning of Security Levels, then that's all well and good, and I say more power to them! But that same character has to interact with the game-world that says "we only let people of SL35+ to enter the RWZ", so it makes sense that if you're playing such a character, regardless of whether you're actually L35 or L50, you would accept the ICC of your characterisation and ICly fudge it so that you are 'not allowed' into the RWZ by Vanguard, the same as a SL5 character.

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Despite your assurances, the level one looks a bit Rikti-ish there fore said level one is not allowed in.

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I create a Rikti character. I get him to L35. He's allowed straight in. Why?

My point is this: The game-mechanics affect what we can and cannot do in the game-world. We have to work with what we've got, and the simplest explanation (and the one given by the NPCs in the game) is that they care about Security Level.

Now, you can create a character who isn't registered, and therefore doesn't have a Security Level, but like Turtleman he won't be 'allowed' to do some things that another, registered, character of his level of power would be able to.

All FFM and I are arguing is that you should accept the ICC of your character, including how those ICC allow you to interact with the game world.

Enter Turtleman. A hero played by a non-RPer who frequents these boards. When he hits CL35, he will not be allowed into the RWZ. Why? Because his security level is 2. That's the character concept. He's not being levelled up. It's a trial.

He can clearly handle himself. He is strong, and tough, and powerful, just as requested. But he's not allowed in. Why not?

*sigh*

Vanguard want two things from people in the warzone: 1) People who are willing and able to kick Rikti butt and 2) People who can handle the knowledge that you need Omega Level Clearance to know.

Note that word: Willing.

It's important.

Vanguard can't and don't forcibly employ anyone. They ask people to help and, in my theoretical explanation for a game-mechanic/IC compromise, get the SL and TL information they need from the FBSA and Arachnos in an attempt to ensure that anyone entering the warzone meets both criteria.

Or, if you'd prefer to break immersion thoroughly, I'll IC have my L50 main take any L1 toon you'd care to bring along to the warzone. He's Omega Cleared, and is willing to vouch for your L1 character that you are powerful enough to hold your own, after all you faced an invasion force and had no trouble at all.

Now come up with an explanation that fits the facts as to why your L1 can't get in.

Vanguard are a UN organisation created to battle the Rikti threat. They have nothing directly to do with the US government, or the RI government, or any other government. They have basically been told by the United Nations "Do whatever it takes to stop those aliens destroying our world". I don't see that they would have any problems using villains as well as heroes, but they have certain standards before they will accept someone to fight in the warzone, where there is a heightened risk of them discovering &lt;Omega Level Clearance Required&gt;.

I can tell that 'trust' was the wrong word to use as far as Villains are concerned, but I seem to recall that when you do your Patron arc, your patron trusts you after the first bit of it. You have acheived a certain level of access to the knowledge and equipment and people within Arachnos, and when Vanguard come along to Lord Recluse and say "Hey, you know that thing about &lt;Omega Level Clearance Required&gt;? Well, we're going to ask anyone from your islands if they wouldn't mind helping us out against the Rikti - can you give us any way to judge people who would be suitably able to handle that knowledge? Oh, nice, you already differentiate them in terms of their threat to you and your organisation, which since this is a Darwinian Society means that they are the fittest? Excellent."

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Do you really think im trashing the game world by saying I work for HC and do not get along with FC?

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No, no, no, a thousand times, no.

Fanservice Girl is a PR stunt for a corporate entity (Hero Corp). That corporate entity employs heroes. Those heroes operating in Paragon City are registered. As she works doing heroic stuff under the Hero Corp umbrella, the FBSA register the fact and adjust her Security Level accordingly. She may not like them, and they may not like her, but the bureaucracy doesn't care about personal feelings, it just does the job. I have no problems whatsoever with Fans not getting along with FC, though I wonder why.

Just realised that this could easily spawn a whole different thread, and in fact did in the not-too distant past. We're now discussing how certain things that are referenced in-game by NPCs (Security Level and Threat Level) should be treated IC. This is good.

It comes down to how much do we as the RP community follow canon? Some of us do it a lot. Some of us not at all. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. There is no right or wrong answer, but the aim of this thread is and should be to attempt to reach some form of generally accepted standard of understanding. If individual players want to make characters that don't conform, that's GREAT. Cookie-cutter characters are dull as all hell. But the way the game-world is meant to work should be an unassailable fact.

My understanding (and like FFM, I mostly play heroes, not villains) is that Security Level is a measure of trust that the FBSA has for your character. By the same token Threat Level would logically be the level of 'trust' that Arachnos has in the villain. They bear no resemblance to how powerful your character actually is, merely to your level of access within the organisations that allocate those levels.