Sentry4

I'm good at what I do, dueling, and bad at what I don't do, warzone. The same goes for you....the only reason you enjoy warzone is because you’re better at it. You have certain preferences so that you excel, and that goes the same with me. I prefer dueling because I’m better at it then warzone. I prefer CoH over WoW because I’m better at it.

No matter how hard I may try, I’ll never be as good in warzone as dueling. Dueling 1v1 comes naturally to me.

Are you really saying that someone who enjoys melee over ranged is a bad player? Even you have to admit that’s incorrect. There are better players then you who enjoy melees more then ranged. I don’t know any specifically, but seeing as “tastes” do not come into play with skill, it can be assumed that they do indeed exist.

You can argue melee fights are harder because your health is dropping faster then if you were to run and kite. Really, you can argue either way. And that’s why I’ve drawn the conclusion that it’s all preferences.

One is not easier then the other. If it was, you could take a “step down” and beat every dueler correct? Since you said it was easier then warzone. Well, you couldn’t and you know that. They are 2 different games, and just because you excel at one does not mean you excel at the other. Learning one is not simpler then the other, playing one is not more simple then the other, because both include the craziest factor of all, a human mind. Something that can not be fully predicted in a situation with more then one choice.

To think that your way is superior is plainly ignorant and that's why your not respected by so many reasonable people.

FC can be seen as simple math,
while warzone can be seen as simply calling targets.

You were never a good dueler and that's why you think it's so simple. If you actually had some skill towards dueling you would see the complexity of it. And if I was good at warzone I’d see how "apparently" skilled it is.

I can bet you anybody that thinks FC was easy was never a champion at it. Because to beat the best isn’t easy.

FC is predictable if you’re against predictable enemies. But a good and skilled player isn’t, and makes sure he isn’t. So you shouldn’t base your experience on that, as you just didn’t have anybody around you that made it fun. I would hate this game if everyone was predictable, then the main point of PvP would be gone. Computers are predictable, skilled players never are.

The most complex thing about melee duels is the ability to adapt quickly in situations. This is one of the things I could not teach as it comes with experience, knowledge and time. When your opponent does one thing, you need to counter. You have different ways and different times to do different things.

Basically soloing an AV is easy because you can predict exactly what powers he’s going to use and even when. He’s a computer, he cannot think, he was programmed to use certain powers at certain times. A human is always unpredictable. You never know what they might do next. I have seen fights completely change because one skilled player decided to play a little differently.

This next part is simple and I’ll try to not over complicate it.
FC obviously takes skill because there are good and bad players. There isn’t the best Tic tac toe player or the best rock/paper/scissors player. This is because those games do not require much skill, and depend a lot on luck. But in an FC match, a good player will always beat a bad one.

You could say FC is somewhat of a baby step, but warzone is a baby step if you don’t really get into it as well.

To me, Warzone is very simple, the biggest factor is numbers. In a duel, numbers are not a factor; rather skill is the biggest factor.

With the new pvp system 2 skilled players cannot take 5 regular players.

The reason you all think FC is simple is because you never went against some of the best players at it. Once you see them you may see some of the genius tactics they have created and used to counter their enemies. I used to think FC was simple too, the regen always wins, but only once I saw a skilled player with a bad build win a FC match did I re-evaluate my opinion.

I won’t doubt that some Justice players are bad, but I will say that I don’t see them often.
What I do know is that Freedom is crawling with noobs right and left. I’m not saying good players don’t exist, and I don’t see how this can be insulting, but the majorities are people who don’t know what they are doing.

That shouldn’t be insulting as there are so many people on freedom, but on justice where the population is limited, you’re talking about people who have been my friends for years.

Actually, I take some of that back, your opinion on “good” and “bad” are bias towards those who agree with you. No matter how good I am, you will always think of me as a “bad” player simply because I like to play my game differently. And because of that fact, your opinion is useless. You need to be more open minded, I know good players on both sides and apparently you’re blind to see the same ones as me.

No, by pushed around I mean bullied in a sense. At least those who are somewhat emotionally weak would call it bulling. I for one couldn’t care, and you and Con are the main reasons I stay here. To balance between someone who’s nice and someone who’s mean.

Insulting people is never the answer. I could go onto a large and obvious explanation as to why, but hopefully anyone reading this can figure it out.

So your respect Leroy because he doesn’t limit himself to one side or the other, while you yourself are limited only to warzone? I don’t define someone on how they play the game, I respect people who only warzone. Darth Ronin comes to mind, I was curious to see his set up after he took my entire 8 man team 1 by 1 and then found out he’s a nice, open minded guy who just prefers one side.

Do you really believe I’m unknowledgeable? I know a lot more then you do in my area. When someone asks for dueling advice, you can’t supply them as well as I can. And vice-versa with warzone, I can’t help as much as you could.

I’m not “as” knowledgeable at warzone, but to say I’m all around not knowledgeable is incorrect.

So you truly believe that your game play is a “step up”? Well I can imagine why you think that, as I’ve read you started a Dueler, got bored and switched. Well the same happened to me except I went backwards. Warzone was fun for awhile, but I didn’t know how good I was. You can’t take a Kill:death ratio, I’ve learned that, or else Giggles would be one of the best players I know.

You fault them for liking melee duels, if someone asks for advice on dueling you respond with “lol” like comments. The truth is you can’t help them, you know your not good at duels but don’t want to admit that so you respond with something like “play my way so I can help you”.

There are more then 2 groups here, and somehow I’m getting grouped with the duelers who can’t spell on freedom.

The golden gun scenario was to show that killing someone using cheap tactics isn’t fun, at least that entertainment fades quickly.

DM is ranked number 2 for dueling. It attacks fast enough that it can go proc crazy and take out some *thought to be invincible* tanks.

It has a self heal unaffected by DR in it's attack chain.

Midnight grasp has DoT which can stop aidself when mixed with regular attacks.

You probably never realized your talking to someone whose life is based around the study of psychology, I suggest you leave your little tricks at the door. They don’t work on someone who realizes them and sees the true meaning behind them.

No, none of my duels got interrupted, at least none that I can remember. Maybe I don’t interrupt them because I feel the emotion of guilt for all the years I did, something I wouldn’t expect someone as you to understand yet.

Are you suggesting that everyone who participates in melee dueling isn’t good? That’s a very narrow minded Mac, good players exist in both groups. Some are cowards and some are not. Some believe being a coward makes the game more fun, and the other half agrees with me that it does not. It’s a preference, and I choose not to be a coward and run.

I don’t believe that builds made the outcome of the duel. There’s the possibility you’ve never met a knowledgeable dueler, because he could beat anybody who didn’t know as much as him. There are counters, but for the most part the better player wins, not the better build.

Knowledge/Skill > Build

A build is useless if you do not know how to use it, but even if you know how to use a build that isn’t a FotM, you’ll dominate, I’ve seen it happen.

My favourite example is regeneration for scrappers, there is a specific order in which you must use them and a certain time to use them to get the full effect. Most do not know when to push what. I’ve seen people start with IH and DP (not even using the heal).
I’m a little surprised you said that it’s the build that makes the battle, you should know if a newbie goes against a pro using the exact same build, the pro with win. And if the newbie has a good build while the pro has a semi-ok build, the pro will still win. There’s no arguing this point, it’s been proven again and again while you’ve been there to witness it or not.

You said you would rather run and come back to win. But if your opponent runs, you cannot win. Would you rather enter a match knowing the outcome will be a tie? Or would you rather agree on no running and make it a win/lose situation? It’s just as simple as that, I could have ran when I was about to die, but that’s no fun. Again, all preferences, running isn’t fun imo.

Even with travel powers, you can’t get enough DPS to get through their regeneration or heals. I’m talking about a *good* melee toon. It shouldn’t die against a melee if it runs away from it. Because of the animation time it takes to get the attack off. If I’m chasing someone and I use Crane kick or Eagles claw, but the time the animation is complete they are ahead of me, even though TS closed that gap a little, they are still moving while I’m standing still. The time it takes for me to catch up is too much to have enough time to kill them, especially if we both have max run speed.

It is complex, but that level isn’t reached by many people so its existence is doubted. But there is skill in a melee duel, I wouldn’t say more or less then a warzone fight because who’s to judge that? Certainly not you, you always seemed bias towards your own side in any argument.

I’ve actually done tests that prove that melee dueling takes skill. I became friends with another regenerations scrapper who didn’t exactly know how to use the set to its full potential, something I learned a long time ago using simple math equations. After I explained everything and we practiced in arena, it was obvious he was much better. If I’m able to take a melee dueler and make him better by explaining some math, it means there are things you need to know to become the best, or better then someone else.

Wasn’t there some poll that showed that scrappers are the most popular AT? Even if there wasn’t, go check how many people are viewing the scrapper section right now, it’s always double everything else. Melees seem to be the most popular, and when someone’s main is a scrapper and they want to pvp, they aren’t going to build a blaster and get it to 50 for it. I’ve always seen Melees as more popular.

Perhaps one of the reasons I say “no” to inspirations is because I can fight better without them, except the only reason you say “yes” is because you can fight better with them. I don’t think inspirations are balanced, because reds increase “base” damage and respites heal a % of your health. It means some are much more effective on others. If melee fights allowed inspirations, I’d be beating on a tank for 2 hours before he ran out of greens.

You said “chasing” after you. Well MA is better if they are chasing you, what’s scary is when your in a melee fight against a katana and you can’t hit them. You can say that using DA every second attack lowers your damage a ton, but in a toe-toe fight it increases your DPS, especially if it has some procs. I watched a video with a katana scrapper soloing some AVs and a Rikti Pylon, he used gamblers cut every second attack to get more DPS. For a long time I used Thunder kick in between all my attacks to get more DPS, and it worked. DA does some nice damage, look at the DPA, because in a standing fight that’s all that matters. And unless you have [rage] or a lot of acc/tohit, a melee can’t kill a Kat/Regen or BS/Regen.

I’ll start on your second post now.

There's only 1 golden gun in the level, that's how it's always been.

And i'm not going to hold every single temp in the game incase my enemy has it.

I don't try to build fury with quick attacks against a ranged toon that's crazy. Only sometimes with melees. It only takes about 10 seconds and then i have full the entire match.

In warzone the blasters build fury for me with all those little quick attacks, i just KoB/web run up with some melees and then use hurl.

Either way Sinatra is asking for a dueling build, not a warzone.

I played ranged blasters for years, i had 3 mains for warzone back then. energy/ele blaster, ill/kin troller and Fire/dev blaster.

Ranged gets old. I can play it, i can make it, but it's too boring. I prefer melee. But that doesn't mean i can't do ranged.

No, more like your only using the golden gun on james bond N64.

Killing your friend over and over with a golden gun gets olds and doesn't prove who's better. I'm done using the golden gun, and i'm done summoning shivans.

I don't make my opinions on the spot and make them the opposite of whatever everyone else thinks.

I wouldn't bother posting my opinions if nobody agreed, but "most" people on Justice do. And none of them want to come here and get pushed around by Mac and Con, only difference is i enjoy the practice of having to deal with people i disagree with, because it's going to come up a lot in life, i believe the biggest population is usually wrong in a matter of opinion because they just take whatever they are given without thinking about it themselves, and numbers mean nothing when more then half don't even know whats going on....and i'm the only one not busy leveling 20 different toons at once. I actually asked leroy to come before, even if he agreed with everything you guys said, atleast he would back it up and explain why instead of throwing insults. But he believes it's "all your preferences" as well.

Knowledgeable old school PvP'ers? You realize i've been here since the first month, and even before PvP came out the only fun i had was soloing Paragon protectors because they were the closest things to heroes.

Take this question for example, Kat vs MA. No smart person would say MA is better in a melee duel. If they did, they either heard someone else say it or just assume it's better because it's better in warzone.

My Main was MA for a long time, and one of my best friends was a katana/sr scrapper.

I'm tired of people trying to simplify me by throwing me in with the group of stupid freedumb melee duelers. Anyone can like melee duels and it doesn't define them. I have friends who like warzone more then dueling, and i'm fine with that.

He said he was interested in another thread, I believe it was the second post of the thread he created himself.

Only if the monkeys were cowards like most people on the forums. Fight to the death or it's a tie. Running a melee duel is basically an invincibility button. And because that invincibility button makes it impossible to kill your opponent, neither one hits it.

It's like if hibernate has a 1 second recharge and didn't grant NoPhase. That's is what running is in a melee duel, and so neither chose to hit it, because they arn't afraid of death.

I've explained this a million times, but i would rather die then look like a coward and run an entire match. Tieing is easy, yes, very very easy, but only if you run, so we choose not too. Every i duel with regularly has an agreement with me, that would be we both don't run, because nobody will win.

I'm not going to duel someone if they are just going to run the entire match. No matter how good the attacker is, if the runner actually has some skill he won't ever die kiting during a melee duel.

You obviously don't know how complex a melee duel can be. I've tried to teach it to some people, and i can't. There is too much you need to know to be good. You need to know every power as well as every power animation, not to mention how long things last. You also need to memorize their chain so that you can counter it, an example being using RttC right after someone uses their mez power in their chain. And the build has to have perfect end, because your attacking as much as you can.

A lot of people think no inspirations or temps is stupid, but the reason we limit these are to balance. A blaster gets a lot more out of reds then any other AT, and a handful of yellows will destroy defense. And temps is obvious, because i don't want to face someone with a shivan and a few warburg nukes. I would only use temps if me and my enemy had the exact same ones. Even then the shiavn would 2 shot us after the warburg nuke buff, so it's basically a short match and more of race.

Warzone is boring, i can say that after being a part of it for 3 years. All you do is call a targets name in chat, and press 1-3 buttons. Maybe even web it. That's it. And when your team dies and your the only one left, your basically dead. There are tactics but you have to depend on other people, and i like to depend only on myself. Most of the *good* tactics are gone with i13, before that even i enjoyed warzone a little.

Personally i'll always love melee duels. It's like the Juggernaut and Hulk bashing on eachother. Not the human torch flying and throwing fire balls at either juggernaut/hulk.

If both choose not to run, it doesn't tie often. It can when tanks duel, but they can get kills too.


Katana is better in a melee duel.
MA is better in warzone and ranged. And *only* because of the burst it gives.

MA is 5th for melee duels IMO. Damage *can* match that of Broad sword and katana, but they both have perma 60% defense.

I have Builds for every scrapper primary, and MA isn't near the top.

Oh add elec melee to above MA in duels, i only have one for brutes, but it would still kill it in damage/end drain on a scrap.

Some people put a proc or 2 in eagles claw, it might go off a few times in a match, i prefer putting it in thunder kick and it going off every few seconds. More damage over time that way.

I might actually put fire melee above MA too.

MA is good against ranged, and it has mez which others somewhat lack, but you need damage to kill some things. I tried to maximize MA damage and couldn't kill a few tanks, but the build i made and gave to a friend got way closer then i ever had. Even that build wasn't 100% my best, i don't hand out secret slotting.

A tank can't kill a good melee dueler. I've seen some SS tanks kill guys here and there, ranged usually arn't that hard, but they can't get enough damage to kill good scrappers or brutes.

Basically any combination for scrappers and brutes should work. I wouldn't bother with /fire though.

Wouldn't perma Group invis just be much easier?

RV is usually alive on justice, and i heard virtue is the same. Usually just over 10 people, problem is some have different times zones and so not all the pvpers are there at once. But it's all regular/good pvpers. I prefer quality.

But nobody is in there when they can go out ToTing in game.

I have only have an SS brute, so i comment on my experience from that.

I'm actually not sure if i should build fury or get right to killing them, i've tested it but the results weren't certain. Full fury, double rage, fiery embrace does some great burst though, espically no DR. I think i hit about 800 on a regen with that no DR. Maybe 700. With numbers like that i want to get full fury as fast as i can.

I'm not 100% sure, because i start with building fury (sometimes) and i don't have fossilize. I don't pretend to know everything, i warn whoever reads my posts that i do not know everything, and even when talking about something i know, i say how i have that experience. In this case mine is a little different, although i believe the whole idea is the same, as ive seen SS tankers duel.

The build i gave was a tanker build, i knew exactly what he was asking for.

You shouldn't just "ask" for a build. A build doesn't make you a skilled player. Building it yourself and learning how to use it does.

I can do a layout of powers but the slotting is more of a secret to those who have experience with the set, and that's something you need to earn.

I'll start it now.

Yea i don't see the day coming where you accept your wrong and start listening to logic, not even sure why i tried.