Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral
Try actually looking at the survivability that Stone Armor with Granite Armor active provides side-by-side with the survivability provided by a set like Invuln, with Unstoppable active and inactive. You'll then realize exactly how wrong you are. Granite Armor on its own provides survivability commensurate with god mode powers. If you can't see that, you need to get your eyes examined.
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These are brute numbers by the way
Unstoppable
52.50% resistance to smashing damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable
52.50% resistance to lethal damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable 52.50% resistance to fire damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable 52.50% resistance to cold damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable 52.50% resistance to energy damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable 52.50% resistance to negative energy damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable
52.50% resistance to toxic damage for 3m 0s on self unresistable +100.00% recovery rate for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
100.00 knockup protection for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
1000.00% resistance to knockup for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
100.00 knockback protection for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
1000.00% resistance to knockback for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10.00 repel protection for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
1000.00% resistance to repel for 3m 0s on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
17.30 stun protection for 3m 0s on self unresistable
17.30 hold protection for 3m 0s on self unresistable
17.30 sleep protection for 3m 0s on self unresistable
17.30 immobilize protection for 3m 0s on self unresistable
-100.00% AttrEndurance on self after 3m 0s delay Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-90.00% special damage on self after 3m 0s delay Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
+100.00% special damage on self after 3m 0s delay Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
GRANITE
37.50% resistance to smashing damage on self unresistable
37.50% resistance to lethal damage on self unresistable
37.50% resistance to fire damage on self unresistable
37.50% resistance to cold damage on self unresistable
37.50% resistance to energy damage on self unresistable
37.50% resistance to negative energy damage on self unresistable 37.50% resistance to toxic damage on self unresistable
+15.00% strength to smashing on self unresistable
+15.00% strength to lethal on self unresistable
+15.00% strength to fire on self unresistable
+15.00% strength to cold on self unresistable
+15.00% strength to energy on self unresistable
+15.00% strength to negative energy on self unresistable
17.30 stun protection on self unresistable
17.30 hold protection on self unresistable
17.30 sleep protection on self unresistable
17.30 immobilize protection on self unresistable
10.00 knockback protection on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10.00 knockup protection on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10.00 repel protection on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-70.00% run speed on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-65.00% strength to recharge on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to smashing damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to lethal damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to fire damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to cold damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to energy damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to negative energy damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to toxic damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-30.00% strength to psionic damage on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
-50000.00% jump height on target Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
+50.00% jump speed on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10.00 fly protection on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
34.60% resistance to defense on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
Kay. Let's see if we can't compare this mm?
Unstoppable has a 15% resistance advantage across the board.+
Granite has a 15% defense bonus across the board.+
Unstoppable has a 100% recovery rate bonus for the full duration.+
Unstoppable has a one-time crash that is 100% predictable and can be worked around. This is unstopppables ONLY downside. -
Granite reduces ALL damage done by 30% (negated on Brutes usually, but tankers are up the creek without a paddle)-
Granite reduces recharge rate by 65%. That's over half of your recharge times tacked onto your powers, effectively making you attack like a sloth.-
Granite cannot fly or jump (I'm lumping these into one minus to be nice). -
Granite suffers a 70% reduction to run speed. -
I don't know how to factor the knockup and knockback differences but I'm fairly sure Unstoppable has the upper hand across the board there as well since Stone is supposed to use rooted for full mez protection (more hindrances I'm not even going to bring into this little discussion because you are already sorely wrong without me having to)
That's all without even factoring ehancements. What, you say? The downsides can be negated with IOs? The game is not balanced around IOs but I will humor you nonetheless.
Can granite negate its effects? No, not entirely. Sure you can completely litter your slots with recharge IOs and run speed IOs, set bonuses that give you recharge and run speed. What do you lose out on when you do this? The set bonuses and IO sets that all other tanking sets have no need to worry about losing. Granite essentially is completely unable to slot even a full purple set even if we wanted to by your logic. We have three choices. Take the huge penalties in the **** and slot to be completely unkillable all the time while hitting like a wet noodle, go somewhere in the middle where you are still a monster of survival but still very killable, or you can do what I layed out before and ATTEMPT to negate all the massive minus percentages that granite slaps you with and be the gimpest survival stone armor person alive but still do some damage.
No matter what you do as granite:
Psionics still kill you.
You still cannot jump.
You are going to lose out on a good amount of either resistance, defense, damage, reharge, or run speed. What those stats are is your pick.
What do you have to sacrifice with unstoppable? Waiting ten seconds after a pull so you can pop inspirations to heal yourself back up to full?
Unstoppable clearly has the advantage over granite in every way shape and form aside from the brief crash and 15% defense. And that is before even factoring in all the other toggles you will be running at the same time as an invuln which will stack on top of your "god mode" button.
Edit: Just for kicks and to further prove my point. Here's another mass of percentages you can add ontop of unstoppable. This is all of invulnerabilities toggles that would be running with unstoppable. I'm not going to do the work for you this time, you can add it yourself.
7.50% resistance to smashing damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to lethal damage on self unresistable
25.00% resistance to defense on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
22.50% resistance to smashing damage on self unresistable 22.50% resistance to lethal damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to fire damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to cold damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to toxic damage on self unresistable
20.00% resistance to run speed on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
+20.00% resistance to recharge on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
20.00% resistance to fly speed on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
20.00% resistance to jump height on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
20.00% resistance to jump speed on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10000.00% resistance to knockback on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10000.00% resistance to knockup on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10.00 knockback protection on self unresistable 10.00 knockup protection on self unresistable
10000.00% resistance to repel on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
10.00 repel protection on self unresistable
3.75% resistance to smashing damage on self unresistable
3.75% resistance to lethal damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to fire damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to cold damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to energy damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to negative energy damage on self unresistable
7.50% resistance to toxic damage on self unresistable
10.38 stun protection on self unresistable
10.38 hold protection on self unresistable
10.38 sleep protection on self unresistable
10.38 immobilize protection on self unresistable
+2.00% tohit on self unresistable
+0.75% strength to smashing on self unresistable (Invincibility, not factoring in number of enemies for FURTHER buffing)
+0.75% strength to lethal on self unresistable
+0.75% strength to fire on self unresistable
+0.75% strength to cold on self unresistable
+0.75% strength to energy on self unresistable
+0.75% strength to negative energy on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to smashing on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to lethal on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to fire on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to cold on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to energy on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to negative energy on self unresistable(End of invincibility)
+3.75% strength to smashing on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to lethal on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to fire on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to cold on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to energy on self unresistable
+3.75% strength to negative energy on self unresistable
25.00% resistance to defense on self Ignores buffs and enhancements unresistable
Have at it tough guy.
I never once said Granite was not good at surviving. In fact I said that is -all- we are good at doing, and that is hardly overpowered.
Edit2: For the record, I'm with the crowd that went towards the middle ground. I rarely use rooted because I can run at a normal speed in granite which makes me happy. I still have to teleport somewhat often, and I still usually have to leave granite and just toggle on my regular armors to DPS because I feel noticeably weaker when I'm in granite mode. Thanks to my IOs I'm not actually that weak, but I'm not unkillable either. I've died a number of times in granite, even after healing to full with Earths embrace and using rooted. I can't even fathom being called overpowered as a stone armor tanker. There's no way at all for them to overcome their damage debuff, but at least they are truly more unkillable than I am.