Santa_Laws

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You said you got knocked back and had your toggles turned off. I assume that also includes phase shift. Is it possible she did a 1-2 punch? Hit you with something that detoggled you (turning off PS) then immediately hit again with another attack that killed you.

If the detoggle attack was queued by the system before your PS was, it would hit you, detoggle PS, and leave you vunerable to any damage from that attack and any follow up ones.

BUT... it would be interesting for further testing of this. I wouldn't be surprised if a bug is found regarding AV-class NPCs being able to hit thru PS. Hell, I did a mayhem mish last night and after my brute wound up in jail he was killed again by the mobs THRU THE JAIL DOOR. I went up to the door to attack it and was spanked in less than 5 seconds from the other side. If they can shoot thru reinforced doors, why not PS too?

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In order to de-toggle, a hit must be made. Phase makes you unhittable suposedly.

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I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a couple of the AVs have the ability to hit a phase shifted enemy. Afterall it is possible for the base defences to do it now so its not impossible from a coding side like it used to be.

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We haven't given this ability to any AV's or GM's.

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I know that something is wrong when you say that. I was in Phase. It was active before engaging... Positron runs in toward a Pillbox and hits me 2 shot through the Phase.

Might want to check that again, mate!

------------------ Santa Laws' Book of Mentoring --------------

--- Preface ---
So you asked for a mentor, huh? Well, with Levels does not always come wisdom. So, before I sidekick you, please read over this basic Book of Mentoring. It should give you everything you need to know about the Mentor/Sidekick relationship.

--- Contents ---
Chapter 1 - What is a Mentor?
Chapter 2 - Choosing a Proper Sidekick
Chapter 3 - Team Leaders & SG Leaders
Chapter 4 - What to give that Sidekick

--- Chapter 1 --- What is a Mentor? ---
Although most people consider a mentor someone of a minimum of level 10 and at least 3 levels higher than you, there is so much more to being a mentor. Sure, there is the mindless droning out of power-levelling where mentor and sidkick stay in a safe location and let a hero gather and beat the living daylights out of an entire maps worth of baddies. But why? Cheap and quick levels? This is where a true Mentor stands out.

A Mentor is defined as a wise and trusted counselor or teacher. A relationship will develop between the Mentor and Sidekick - beit as a plutonic relationship where both want to play on the same team or a true Teacher relationship where the Mentor is showing the student playstyle, rules, places, situations, and/or general information before sending them out on their own.

Mentorship is not to be taken lightly. In an online game, you can still enjoy playing, but keep in mind that a new player will mimic their teacher in every way. The way you respond to others in chat, the use of emotes in distatseful ways, the ways to circumvent the flow of the game, and even how to disrupt public events like a costume contest or a Hammi Raid.

Even in a team, if everyone is within the same level range of each other and no one is sidekicked, the Team Leader is looked at for all intensive purposes as a Team Mentor. The Leader should make sure that the integrity of the team stays intact. After all, it is he or she that selects the mission. They should also make sure that confllicts are resolved. I cannot tell you how many times I've witnessed a disgruntled Defender or Controller puposefully let a team member die because of a disagreement.

The Mentor also has a place in the SuperGroup. Each SG has levels assigned with different permissions. Power corrupts - absolute power corrupts absolutely! Giving power to the wrong person can spell disaster by getting every on a lower rank kicked from the SG or ticking off a more deserving person. The first example happened to a SG I was in. To this day, we do not know for certain who it was, but we do know two things...

1) We went from having 75 members to less than 14 in a matter of 20 minutes.
2) People who were kicked were extremely mad and most never returned figuring someone did not like them.

So being a Mentor is a serious job, but also much fun. Watching the chat window light up with amazement as they see something for the first time, or when you show the Sidekick how to handle situations are a couple of those high points.

--- Chapter 2 --- Choosing a Proper Sidekick ---
When you reach level 10, you are immediately ready to be a Mentor. Or are you? Because of the burden and responsibility, there are couple of steps you need to take to prepare for your Sidekick. In addition, you also need guidance in selecting your Sidekick.

First, check out the makeup of the team. Look at the level range, type of missions, and most of all - personal feeling of the rest of the team. It will make a huge difference in selecting your sidekick and easing the team through the mission.

Level range is highly important when you combine it with Mission Selection. For example, going through a Task Force or Strike Force. The biggest waste of time is before the first mission is accepted. We all have experienced having a Member that was too low for the TF mission level range. Then you have to find a way around it, then invite new people to replace the impatient people who left. Take a few minutes to research what the team is going to do and what levels are acceptable.

The next step is to find out what percieved needs are desired in a team member. How many times have you started a Task Force and found out that you do need an Empath Defender instead of the Dark Defender you got? How many times have you started a Respec mission and found out that you do not have a single member with TP or Rez? A couple of minutes doing research will save you countless hours in a hopeless cause and the result will be less debt and quicker levels.

Second, overall personalities of the team is important. You don't want conflict while the team is trying to complete a timed mission. Generally, a good rule of thumb is team with people you know. Those are the one's you will get along with and most of the time, they will get along with each other.

Pick-up Groups (PUGS) are especially vulnerable to the personality crisis. A mish-mash of attitude and a chaotic feeling can be both exhilarating and stressful. Make gentle suggestions to the Team Leader to get the proper information on what they feel is the need of the team. Then help them look. Don't just entertain yourself. Remeber, a successful mission comes from a successful team.

If you happen to be the leader, do not dismiss the suggestions of a player so easily. I was part of a PUG and the leader wanted to get another Empathy Defender. I reminded him that I had been through that exact mission 17 times in the last week and that we had enough Empathy, we only needed another blaster. Well, we got an Empath and we ended up with team wipes multiple times.

When it comes to choosing that Sidekick, keep in mind you need to select someone that trusts you. Even though a potential Sidekick has got a level 50 peacebringer, keep in mind that the toon they are playing, they may not have a lot of experience running. That is why I suggest mentoring a Sidekick of a compatible AT. There is a valid reason why also. With the Mentor/Sidekick system, a Tanker sidekicked to a Defender wouldbe a bad combo. What would happen if the Tanker is in Melee combat and the Defender has to get away from the action to Teleport a defeated Team Member for a Rez. That's right! The Tanker can lose his Sidkicked status and get into much bigger problems. There are multiple bad combos out there.

Once you have decided that taking a Sidekick is beneficial to the team and the Sidekick, and you have found a potential Sidekick, you then need to communicate with the Team and Sidekick. Make sure all parties are aware of the situation and agree that this is a good addition.

A good Sidekick will communicate with you, so make sure the candidate does so regularly. Some goodtips for finding good candidates are looking right in your SG window. They typically will be on good behaviour because they are representing the SG to the Team. An SGs reputation is often formed by the members of teams that SG members are on with. I know of several SGs on the Protector server with the reputation of Power Levelling. This reputation has spilled over andthe Protector server has a reputation as a Server of Power Levellers. The fact that you can find within the forum posts in the Protector threads many people that disdain the thought of power levelling, means nothing to people form other servers. Another example is the Role Player server. Where did it get that reputation? You got it! From a few SG on that server having that reputation.

Also, your Sidekick and you do not have to constantly chat back and forth. A little less chat makes for an easier time by the Mentor to do the job he was brought on the team for. The questions and general Chit-chat can be saved for the downtime. Granted, friendly chatter goes on and sometimes in the middle of a battle. It is the discretion of the Mentor. A Sidekick should not distract the Mentor and as such, the Mentor should take charge if the chat takes away from his abilities.

--- Chapter 3 --- Team Leaders & SG Leaders ---
Team Leaders generally have good intentions, butthey have to watch out for the whole team. A good Team Leader will rum missions from each person instead of his and a friends. As a whole, the other Team Members feel they are contributing even if they aren't in a battle standpoint. There might not be much XP in a mission that is 5 levels lower, but you still get to test your build versus other baddies, or for viability. People will respec according to their current needs and forget that ifthey Sidekick to someone else, they may not be as suitable for that type of damage or they may help a friend and find out they no longer have the protection they desired from other types of villains that they once had.

So picking a variety of missions helps the overall feel of the team but also contribute to their general comfort levels in their Team Leader. A low morale towards the Team Leader means that the team members will change often and much of the time garner feeling about that player for many levels to come.

SG Leaders also suffer from morale issues. Sometimes an SG Leader will Apathy towards accomplishments. They can even have issues arise from overlooking certain members who are deserving. SG Leaders need to make sure they reward those that help the SG through recruiting, event organization, web-site programming, running teams, and being Mentors to other Sg members. The Key is to recognize and reward beneficial people to the SG.

A bad SG Leader will not have a large following. Instead he will drive people away and into better SGs. A bad Team Leader will have a negative impact upon the reputation of his SG and that will in itself negate recruiting of that person regardless of the SG Leadership.

Good qualities in Team and SG Leaders are the same as good qualities in people and business professionals. Honest, friendly, hard working and problem solving are the best attributes.

--- Chapter 4 --- What to give that Sidekick ---
This topic has a wide range of responses. You can best answer it by asking yourself what would have helped you be a better player if your Mentor was to give you something. Most would answer influence/infamy or enhancments. Although these are not entirely right, they do not allow someone to be a better player. They simply allow the player to do more of what they already do. Sometimes advice is the best gift you can give.

I personally save influence/infamy and enhancment gifts for Sidekicks that I see are trudging along in SG mode - helping the SG with Prestige. That is a good "Thank You!" for their hard work and dedication. It also builds good relationships in the Teams and SG. It also is infectious.

One of the hardest lessons you can teach your Sidekick is when to call off the Sidekick mentality. Too often, people get used to the idea that they can Sidekick to a Mentor and forget about gaming. This is referred to as Power Levelling. When that player gets to level 50, they will immediately create their Kheldian and start Power Levelling again. After that challenge, it is off to build another and another toon. They only have experience as a SideKick and their only contribution is to PowerLevel other people. Teaching them to be that 'Hero' or 'Villain' is the most important moment of that toon's life and often reaches into their Real Life. Arguably, some of the best in-game players are some of the best Real Life people. Use that time to create a true Hero or Villain.

I recall a movie by the name of 'Unbreakable' with Bruce Willis and Samuel L. Jackson. In it, Samuel L. Jackson's character states that he could not be the person he is without finding that one person that is to be his Arch-Nemesis in life.His opposite. Incidently, the movie is about comic book heroes and I would recommend everyone to view it if you get the chance. After all, when faced wit ha situation, it is the choice you make that will define you as an individual.

--- Hope this guide helps make your SG, Team and Sidekick/Mentor experience better ---

In all honesty, the game is already printed and the CDs are being made.

When you log in for the first time... expect a patch.

Supergroup Name: Santa's Toyshop
Supergroup Leader: Santa Laws
Global Name: Genericperson123

Well with just over 2 weeks left in August, we are quickly running out of time for testing such a major change in the structure of ice tanks.

Protector is also home to the Mythos SG. We are Superteaming it up Issue 5 and beyond. Just like this.

Here's an (I hope) original suggestion....

How many times have you gone out, slipped on ice or grabbed the wrong area of something covered in ice?

Ice tends to be sharp as a knife. I have accidently cut myself on ice.

So have ice have "retribution" properties and hurt the attacker when they hit us when we are armored in ice....

Man I hope this makes it to you...

Can you tell us anything about zone not released yet south of Faultline? Has it been scrapped? Future issue? PVP zone for COV?

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People have recorded the base of Invincibility at 3.5%, so I was only going by that, please feel free to give the correct number (for range too please!)

3.5% * (1 + (6 * .22)) = 8.12% per mob.

8.12% * 14 mobs is 113.68.


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The number isn't 3.5% base - it's 1.5%. To be honest - I don't know where the data came from that led to 3.5%.

Certainly, your points on Toxic and Psi are true; let's not forget that Invulnerability has an inherent weakness to Psi in Unyielding, though. It's safe to say that Ice is better (albeit marginally) because it lacks that weakness.

You're 100% correct about assuming 14 mobs in EA AND Invincibility - though something else isn't taken into account. Invincibility works only while mobs are in melee. So as the number of mobs decrease, Invincibility decreases. If a Tanker leaves melee range for 1 second, the buff from Invincibility fades...This isn't the case with EA; it's a click that lasts 45 seconds. The calculation of mobs is done at the moment it's used - and that buff carries throughout the 45 seconds. It doesn't decrease like Invincibility.

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But Ice Tanks do have a weakness to Psychic

As if popping puple inspirations weren't all we needed to get more defense... now those same purple inpirations named luck will provide less defense than they did in Issue 4.

So we need to pop 4 more Lucks in order to be somewhat the same?

Throw the Ice Tanks a pickle and let us become Incarnates already...

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Okay Statesman, I've reworked some of the Ice Armor Comparison spreadsheets I worked on with Havok, and I've put them online. The results are pretty grim when you look at them, and I think you have some real explaining to do. Here are the spreadsheets:

IceArmorvsInvulnTanker.xls

IceArmorvsInvulnScrapper.xls

Some caveats (some of which are listed on the spreadsheets):

1) Ice Armor is using 6 powers and 29 slots, and I have both Invuln Scrappers and Tankers using 7 powers and 33 slots. The primary difference between the Invuln Scrapper and Tanker is that for the Scrapper Tough Hide was given 2 slots and RPD 1, for the Invuln Tanker its 1 slot for Tough Hide, and 2 slots for RPD.

2) The calculations assume all mobs are in range for Chilling Embrace to take effect on them, and that all are affected (tough to judge how to do the 10 mob cap really).

3) Toxic can't be judged properly because its hard to judge the source of DEF vs a Toxic attack, since Toxic is only a damage type and not an attack type.

4) Psionics is not really correct, because based on (2) above the attackers would have to be in melee range and affected by Chilling Embrace, but Psionic attacks are all ranged attacks. Really the only true bonus for Psionics would go to Ice for not having the Unyielding penalty. So more realisitic numbers for Psi would be much lower.

5) Assumed the level scaling for Accuracy for mobs was the same in I5 as for I4.

Considering all that... looking at just even con mobs...

Ice Armor vs Invuln Tanker (even level foes):

Smash/Lethal: Ice takes 910.50% damage of an Invuln
Energy/Negative: Ice takes 178.67% damage of an Invuln
Fire: Ice takes 618.89% damage of an Invuln
Cold: Ice takes 91.01% damage of an Invuln

Ice Armor vs Invuln Scrapper (even level foes):

Smash/Lethal: Ice takes 320.60% damage of an Invuln
Energy/Negative: Ice takes 160.02% damage of an Invuln
Fire: Ice takes 554.28% damage of an Invuln
Cold: Ice takes 81.51% damage of an Invuln

And in both cases the margin only widens as the mob level goes up. For example lets jump to +1 level foes...

Ice Armor vs Invuln Tanker (+1 level foes):

Smash/Lethal: Ice takes 1327.11% damage of an Invuln
Energy/Negative: Ice takes 260.42% damage of an Invuln
Fire: Ice takes 723.12% damage of an Invuln
Cold: Ice takes 106.34% damage of an Invuln

Ice Armor vs Invuln Scrapper (+1 level foes):

Smash/Lethal: Ice takes 467.29% damage of an Invuln
Energy/Negative: Ice takes 233.24% damage of an Invuln
Fire: Ice takes 647.63% damage of an Invuln
Cold: Ice takes 95.24% damage of an Invuln

Showing that realistically, Ice is in fact not the tank who is strongest against Cold damage, Invuln, in both cases easily overtakes even Ice's best protection.

So overall, you've simply not done a good job towards balancing Ice Armor. If Invuln is still the baseline you've effectively failed.

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Nice well thought out post. I have been trying to explain this since Issue 2. People always told me better to slot resistance over defense. I am an Ice Tank! How am I supposed to do that?

In all seriousness, if you are still thinking that Ice Tanks are Defensive Build Tanks, then you are sorely mistaken.

States, I know that you told me that Ice Tanks were doing great in your tests, however I must insist that something else is wrong.

I took my Ice Tank into a malta mish and found that Malta rarely miss on the first shot. Especially sappers. When that happens, you are mezzed and unless you are lucky, you will remain mezzed thoughout the entire death scene.

I tried it solo set on the easiest setting and still died 3 times in the first room. I was mezzed the entire time (which I've been told won't happen) there were 3 sappers at the doors (which shouldn't happen) and their Accuracy was almost 100% (which shouldn't be).

Ice Tanks already suffer as PVP fodder due to low defensive values and now we will be PVE fodder.

I got 2 suggestions.

1. Officially retire Ice Tanks from the Tanker AT and allow current Ice Tanks a special Respec to re-roll as something else. This way we can be useful.

2. If you run an ice tank, just enter Costume Contests in Atlas Park.

If these numbers are even close to correct, our days of tanking are over. We might as well slot ourselves as a scranker and forgo all ice armor.

Talk about feeling inadequate! The only time I fealt good about being an Ice Tank was when they made ice armor stack.

There are sone inherently wrong things I want to share...

My Top Ten

10. The Ice Tank has been known for Defense. We are well protected, but suffer greatly when hit.

9. Ice Tanks are good in some situations, bad in others, and cause team wipes in others.

8. Hibernate get Ice Tanks into a lot of trouble. Nothing like taunting and resorting to hibernate to save your butt. Now you got to wait for your team mates to regroup and come save your butt again. Because those baddies don't mind banging for all eternity on the ice...

7. What does an Ice Tank use as an attack? After 6 slotting all armor, we are left with maybe 3 attacks... LOL... and one is icicles.

6. Every move has taunt with it. Great! I taunt everything to hit me so that I go down quicker and they focus on my team...

5. Ice Tanks are speed bumps. Some are better than others but are just a better speed bump.

4. We got love in Issue 3 with Stackable Armor. We got a little rework with Issue 4. We got a pinkslip with Issue 5.

3. Ice Tanks will be rare in Issue 5. This will cause us to be novelties that are there to show off... "Hey [insert Ice Tank name here]! Show me your Ice Sword!" and 'Oooo! I've never seen one of those before!" Hey! I already hear that!

2. Why should we be on a team? Everything we can do, others can do in their sleep. We bring nothing that can't be done better except die...

And the number one thing we can say about Ice Tanks...

1. Since we can't PVP well against the others (we can hibernate for a tie if the circumstances are perfect), and we can't team (unless we take all the defensive power pools powers and forgo any attacks), then we are left to do missions Solo... Oh, wait! What am I thinking? Solo? Right! And Ritki Monkies might fly out of my butt!

Game over...

Hammi wins by default!

And what about those AV have the capability of one-shotting most toons but run all over the map to avoid death? If you are one-shotted, then go to the hospital, make it back to the map but not to the combat area before the AV (we all know which ones run) goes down, that means no XP. Not to mention if you are a 50 and SK a 45-47. They would get no XP because they cannot hit an AV easily.

Nice Guide... Guess I'll hang my guide I was working on up.

A couple of things I would like to add:

- Never postpone committing violence you are inclined to commit at once. Later on, you might not be as pissed off.
- Sith never exit without a parting shot.
- A true Sith has a discriminating palate. There are some things so twisted, even Sith won't go there
- Sith may never score lower than 9 out of 10 or 5.4 out of 6 in an acrobatic maneuver (Exception: a Sith may rate 8.5 out of 10 or 5.1 out of 6 if he has already been mortally wounded-twice)
- Sith are hot [censored] with anything that is potentially lethal.
- The only real Sith holiday is Halloween.
- Sith do not require Beta'ing.
- Sith do not do cute!
- A true Sith lets his hate flow through him at all times.
- A Sith knows when to wait and when to strike.
- A true Sith doesn't give a rat's [censored] about the speed limit.
- A Sith Lord does not need to see his victims in order to destroy them.
- Sith do not use the magic word. Try growling instead.
- Sith are hot [censored]!

Taken from the Sith Academy

Now my challege is this... we needed a PVP guided for Sith and a PVE/PVP guide. Whose up for it...

And one last note for all the Sith Supergroups...

Taken from the Historical Writings of the Sith...

The Organization of the Sith comprises of 2 Masters and an Appentice for each. When the Apprentice feels the Master is weaker than him, he attepts to kill his master. If he is successful, He becomes the new Master and selects his own apprentice. If he fails, the Master has him killed and selects a new Apprentice. Either way the strongest lead the Sith!

This topic confirms one thing for me...


I better retire my Ice Tank because it was hard enough just not dying...

MY Ice Tank has to rely heavily on Pool Powers because I like to run invincible... Tough Weave and Hasten slotted for defense. Plus I got all the ice armors 6 slotted. I get hit so much, I almost have that damage badge for 10 million...

The one thing I liked was that EA saved me some debt, but that is being changed.

I see that after a month of being on the other topic... I am still not listed...

Santa Laws LVL 50 Ice/Ice Tanker