Rylas

I never claimed it would be unkillable. And a lack of DDR is an intended weakness of the set. Would you blame someone for not using Psionic Clockwork to show off the strengths of Inv? And since I wasn't using any attacks, it's hard to see how much impact the heal procs could have had, or might have had in a debuffed situation.

And that's defense to Smash and Lethal in defensive mode. So there is some protection there to avoid DDR from lethal. It's not awesome protection, but there is some. Also, this isn't the only set lacking full mez protection. I don't think it bears scrutiny as that's not a standard to go by for all armor sets.

Well, now that I dragged out my Tanker video, we might be able to get some more finite answers. On the tank, in defensive, with lvl 35 common IOs, he was getting 24.65% S/L defense. So on a brute, that would be, what? 18.49% defense to S/L?

That's actually pretty decent in a group of 10.

You are correct, I misread your post and my memory inserted the word "Thank". My sincerest apologies. You're still strongly implying that it was nerfed horribly, which it was not.

And you're certainly entitled to the opinion that the set is below-average to average, but the fact that a lvl 44 Bio tank with nothing more than level 35 Common IOs can stand in the middle of a +4/x8 CoT group and stop to do its taxes while it waits for them to do anything impactful would argue much to the contrary. That's far above average.

I can't look it up so easily at work, but yes. It starts at zero for S/L. But you can get S/L defense in Environmental Armor in Defensive mode. Someone else will have to tell you the numbers on that, sorry. And while it's not high, you do get very good resist for S/L in Bio Armor.

You said we could thank her for working to get the set "nerfed into oblivion." A sentiment that is matched in your other posts here:

and here:

...and here:

Clearly, you thought it was nerfed into oblivion.

What was that you were saying about revisionism?

Initially, in the forums, Synapse posted changes. The first included placing -Rech on Defensive mode. Then people reasoned that -rech would affect defensive powers as well as offensive powers. So then, Synapse came back and said those changes would be undone, but he posted that before the first set of changes went through. Unfortunately, the build that was rolled out was the one with -rech, because those had been made already. Then about a week later the -rech was taken out.

Good catch. I also forgot to mention that the -rech (present in the video) was removed from Defensive mode.

Keep in mind, there have been changes since then. Mainly that Offensive mode was boosted on its damage, and Efficient mode was given more recovery. Parasitic Aura had it's recharge time shortened, but I can't recall if I even used PA in the video.

Only if I can be the committee lead for choosing paper stock. People never think about paper stock!

Wow, good catch! Now I'm going to re-watch that movie with the perspective that he gets what he deserves.

Also, Erica Durance of Smallville fame was in SG-1. (apologies if already posted)

Probably because KO is still nearly half a second faster. But I'll let that slide, because perception can feel very different when you're waiting.

Now, I get what you're saying: Don't use it on small targets. But let's think about this. How fun is it to go up to a full health minion and one-shot him? It's pretty darn fun! I mean, you can't possibly blame people for wanting to feel that kind of power. Can you!?

Now, lets say you're just on a team of three. And you've got mobs galore all around. You pick yourself out a little guy, and you say, "Oh yeah, that there's a b-e-a-uh-yooty!" You've queued yourself up, you've lined the guy up, and you're going into full acti-

DEAD.

"Oops, my bad, bro!", says your SS pal. "I didn't see you targeting that guy."

It's inevitable. People can't help but kill your target. It's like you're some kind of magic magnet for getting NPCs targeted. It's like your friends are targeting through you all the time. Or at least, that's how it feels.

So I get what you're saying. But there's a reason people play the way they do, and it's to feel like their character is powerful at what they do. If you have to reserve all your hitters for long boss fights and AVs, where they don't feel as powerful, then it gets pretty un-fun fast.

Now, I say all that, but I still feel the biggest mistake in EM's changes wasn't bringing its DPS in check. It was completely changing THE FEEL of the set. Things were fast. Things were fluid. You got your business going and it was MOVE MOVE MOVE. Not anymore.

They would have been better off lowering the damage and keeping the animation times the same. Yeah, people would have reeled over the nerf, just the same, but you wouldn't have completely changed the way they had to play the set. And that's a real shame.

Well, for starters, if they're dead and you landed ET, you still lose health.

For finishers, if you're only helpful advice is that someone should play another set, then obviously EM needs looking at.

Looks can be deceiving. I will say, it can achieve some great survival levels, but it does have some holes as well as weaknesses. Keep in mind, if you're looking at Defensive Adaptation numbers, it looks incredible. But it will come with a -Dmg debuff in that adaptation.

It lacks DDR as well, so if you're in a high Def Debuff situation, a lot of your mitigation goes out the window. But you do have two strong Heal-type powers.

I think where its real strength is going to be is in its ability to adapt. Defensive isn't quite Granite, Efficient Adaptation isn't quite WP, and Offensive Adaptation isn't quite FA. But it comes somewhat close to those and you can switch between them as you need to.

It's incredibly fun.

H'mmm...

The passive-aggression is strong in this one.



...I like it.

Yes, a buff to EM is much needed. Or a tweak, anyway. I understand the need to bring it into balance from its glory days, but I think the mistake that was made was that it affected play style greatly. It was a fast-moving, fluid-like set. Now it's wait times and late deliveries.

I'd have preferred a reduction in damage over elongated animations (so long as the DPS remained the same as it is now). As it stands, my Ice/EM tank will remain shelved until it can be made decent again.

Ah, I see what happened. Bio Armor was defaulting as the armor when I started up Mids and it threw the numbers off. I switched to WP and I'm getting between 63% and 64% Fury to match the damage now.

Those are pretty easy numbers to maintain on a brute.

Even if you click Critical off?

If so, then 74% just to match in mids to crit averages.

Yup, I have to agree with this. It's too soon to use Mids just yet. I've only been able to rely on it for power selection order for the time being. I have an idea of what I want to go for, but I need the numbers to be right before I spend anymore time on it.

I am impressed Mids has been updated to this point though. Especially with all the changes that have been made to Bio. Kudos on trying to be ready for when it goes live.

It can and it can't. It all depends on the groups you're going up against. If they have a lot of mixed damage attacks, then your lethal and/or melee defense numbers won't matter.

But when you run into groups like Warriors or a lot of the KoA and KoA spin-offs, it's going to be much more helpful.

If I implied I thought it was useless, nothing could be further from the truth. I was only stating that Bio can negate its defense in a lot of situations. That is all.

Well, I'll agree that Johnny can dig his heels in the ground and insist on silly things sometimes (No offense, Jonny). But he's had a few nuggets of good input in this thread. Not always realistic, but considering his usual demeanor, I think he's done pretty well.

But you gain a debuff on another power. So by that logic, it's also a debuff.

Starsman's point was that it's not always so cut and dry.

At least have the courage to name the people if you're going to say some people don't provide good input or have feedback you deem unworthy. Just remember, you invite the same criticism of yourself if you start bringing that kind of talk around. Don't worry though, I think you've made a couple of decent points.

Still, for starting this fiery inferno of flaming, you must be subject to 30 lashings with a wet carp.

Do you mind listing those things that shouldn't have been changed to help give a better perspective of where you coming from?

If changing what you quote is how you make your point, I don't think you're going to be making the point you thought.

Are you implying that while I don't represent the player base accurately, you do? And are you trying to say I'm the only one who's admitted there's an imbalance? I remember a few others in here who have said the same. Or are you saying you refuse to admit there's an imbalance? And I'm not clear why you bolded the "It's just the people that like being vocal." Did you take that as an insult? That's what we are, the vocal players of the game. That doesn't mean we're crackpots or anything. We're just willing to take the time to discuss things. It's not like were elected officials, so we can't say we represent the player base. It also means you don't either.

So instead of "adjusting" other people's words, just use your own. Your point will be less ambiguous.

You use that phrase a lot like it's a golden ticket; WAI. Just remember, there have been many things that were WAI that players found imbalanced and through constructive feedback were able to bring into a more balanced form. Invincibility comes to mind. Aggro being without a cap. Hitting more than 15 targets with AoEs. And that's just a small part of the list, I'm sure.

WAI does not equate to being free of ever being changed.

Stop equating balancing to nerfing. If people bring it up, you're better off just ignoring it rather than bringing more attention to it. I think that's what Starsman was trying to say. If people feel one AT is encroaching on Tanks strengths to the point of being too much, you should just assume that eventually the topic of limiting they're ability to do so will come up. The only thing you have to fear is if the devs think it has weight, which you obviously have an answer to.

I doubt this thread is going to convince the devs one way or the other if they want to touch Tanks. There was never a promise of it, and I doubt they haven't come up with their own ideas anyway. I'll agree with what has been said by others. Tanks aren't broken. And I've said I'm not worried if they get anything done. But not being broken doesn't mean they still can't be improved, so I'm glad people are brainstorming. Whether I like their ideas or not.

You should really avoid using the forums as a form for taking consensus. It's just the people that like being vocal. That doesn't mean they represent populations accurately. And for the record, I've been playing Brutes more than Tanks and I'm willing to admit there's a balance issue. Whether it will get touched so far along doesn't seem likely, but that doesn't mean we can't admit it's there.