Remidi

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So by this quick sample, I got 60% that was useful in *any* way, and only 20% that was what I could call universally useful to me. Those odds just aren't good enough for me to waste merits on random rolls.

[/ QUOTE ]

10 rolls is 200 merits, which we'll round off to say is any one IO of your choice.

you'd rather have taken 1 of your choice instead of 10 rolls that yielded 6 that were useful?

[/ QUOTE ]

But 4 of those 6 fall into the 'a little goes a long way' category. In other words, after getting a couple of them they would fall into the 'useless to me' category. So in the long run, I am trading 2 probably useful recipes for one dead certainty of exactly what I need.

QR

On the subject of random rolls, I did an experiment. I have run ten TFs since the merit system details were put out, and I have kept track of my drops.

4/10 - Useless to any of my alts.

Edict of the Master Damage
Malaise Proc
Call of the Sandman Acc/Rech/Sleep
Pacing of the Turtle Proc

2/10 - Generally held to be of limited value, but I do have some alts who could use those sets.

Performance Shifter Rech/Acc
Dark Watcher Rech/End

2/10 - Moderately useful to me. They're from good sets, but they are procs and I don't put very many procs in my builds.

Positron Proc
Devastation Proc

2/10 - Useful pieces, ones that I can use in a number of my alts.

Scirocco Dam/Acc/End
LotG End/Rech

So by this quick sample, I got 60% that was useful in *any* way, and only 20% that was what I could call universally useful to me. Those odds just aren't good enough for me to waste merits on random rolls.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Opportunity Cost. Spending those 20 merits on a random roll at Pool C is a bad bet if you're looking for something specific. The most you'll have to spend for a specific recipe is 250 merits. Or 12.5 random rolls. It's a bad gamble to take the roll. Before this, it wasn't a choice. You did a TF you got a roll, not skeeball tickets.

This isn't a problem with Pool D which is tiny and nearly everything it it is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed that if you want one specific thing, and anything else is basically worthless to you, then the random roll is a very poor deal.

If your needs/wants are a little more flexible, it becomes a better deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only way I could become that 'flexible' is add about a dozen controllers to my stable of alts.

Right now I have 15 alts that I play, and they are in a wide variety of powersets. But I would say that for roughly 33-40% of the katies I run, I end up with a recipe that *none* of my alts can use. Those aren't good enough odds, sorry. There is no way I'm using my merits for random rolls when there is at least a 1 in 3 chance that I'll get something totally useless to me.

Welcome to the forum, Synapse. Glad to have you on board.

[ QUOTE ]
Poster: MadScientist
Q: Pool C and D are no longer dropped anywhere in-game. To my knowledge, those will be the only items purchased from stores that never drop in the wild. My question is: What are your goals in making that design move? What do you expect that unique situation to achieve?

A: In the past, completing a Task Force gave you the option to choose a random IO recipe. This rolled on a reward table. All we’ve done is remove where you roll on the reward table. Instead of it being upon completion of a Task Force, now it’s purchased from a vendor.

One of the benefits of doing it this way actually gives the players the option to choose rewards from a large amount of task force level ranges instead of whatever one the Task Force would normally use. So, you can spend your 20 merits to roll on random roll from a variety of level ranges (10-14, 15-19, 20-24, 25-29, 30-34, 35-39, 40-45 or 46-50.)


[/ QUOTE ]

Like Mad, I am concerned that now the Pool C and D recipes are essentially store-bought commodities rather than normal rewards. While yes, the level range choice is very nice, the day I will use my merits on a random Pool C roll will be the day I have completely kitted out all my alts with every bought one.

I understand your reasoning behind the idea that you've just moved the point where the random roll takes place. But from my point of view, by taking away the random drop and making merits my only reward and my only way of obtaining the recipes I want on that alt, you've made them far too valuable to me to blow on a potential Call of the Sandman.

Which brings up another point, which may be outside of your range of duties, but perhaps you could pass it along to whoever's job it is. The Pool C itself.

The speed katie has been popular with a lot of players like me who are casual players who want to make their limited time count as best as it can. Katie is fast, and most importantly fun. I've run a speeden once. Once. I didn't enjoy it, so I considered it on my 'once for the badge' list. But I've run a lot of katies because the Mary fight is one of my favorites in the game.

But the biggest advantage to the speed katie is that if the RNG made a frownie face that day and dumped yet another Trap of the Hunter or Malaise into my lap, it was no big deal. But if I'm spending a chunk of a Dr. Q on it? It will be a very big deal.

So I have to ask - is there any possibility of revisiting the recipes that are included in Pool C? It really makes no sense whatsoever for there to be as many confuse recipes in the pool as healing ones. There are simply far too many of very limited value. I don't mind using random rolls for Pool D, because there is only one vendor trash recipe, but Pool C is chock full of them.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, nobody is buying the 'it is too confusing' line. Anyone so befuddled by two different types of salvage shouldn't be out on the internet unchaperoned.

[/ QUOTE ]

My SG mate saw some Elite Chain Guns arranged nicely in a coalition base and wanted to place them in our base.

He gave up. Why? The current base salvage system is indeed more complex than what they are proposing (and needlessly so). He grew frustrated with the very specific recipes required to make components and the mind-numbing amount of useless base slavage that won't combine into anything of value. He didn't know that the Supercollider could craft all salvage and was frustrated with jumping from one work bench to another. We also have an IO crafting table and thus lack one of the three tiers of worktables. Oops, without using a Buff Station, he was occluded from even crafting tier 2 salvage.

That is a lot of speific and largely esoteric knowledge required to make a base item. The new sysytem is: look at recipe, buy the 3 to 5 invention salvage required from the market interface, then craft. That's it.

The whole process of turning Base salvage into Component salvage is a useless step and I am glad that it is gone. Two of my 4 SG mates are already excited about the new base system and cost structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll be the first to admit the old system is far from perfect. But what the devs have been calling 'confusing' isn't the crafting process itself. They have been saying that the players are confused by the presence of two kinds of salvage. That when they see 'Salvage Found' they are confused about what kind of salvage they are getting. As other people have pointed out, then how can players be expected to understand Merits and Vanguard Merits, or a host of other similarly named items in the game?

[ QUOTE ]
Sunstorm is still fielding questions and/or rounding out on ones already posted. Due to his new status to the boards we will be filtering these out in bunches, mainly because we don't want him to get caught in the wiles of the forums.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too late, we already have our hooks in him. *cackles madly*

Welcome, Sunstorm, and thank you for answering our questions.

[ QUOTE ]
Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference. This is crucial: the base must be entered in order to trigger the Prestige refund. If your base is not loaded, then the refund will not happen until someone enters it.

Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. There are bases with rooms that are works of art, and it seemed nearly a crime for an SG to tear them apart to get a room refund. You really need to take up that offer of a tour. Once you've seen a pirate ship in a base, your imagination runs wild.

And I am very happy to see that our concerns were heard about the teleporter recipes. That is probably the first item most base builders craft, and having to come up with some of those items would have been a nasty shock.

[ QUOTE ]
Q. Base salvage, why replace it, and what will happen to it?

A. Base salvage has little value to most players. Since there are a limited number of base items to construct, once those items are built there is little need for any further base salvage.

As a result, base salvage tends to either gather dust on salvage racks, or be a source of confusion with Invention salvage. Base salvage will not be removed though, so anything not converted to Brain Storm tokens will remain in game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, nobody is buying the 'it is too confusing' line. Anyone so befuddled by two different types of salvage shouldn't be out on the internet unchaperoned. I think it is far more likely that you want to reduce the number of items in the storage database but don't want to say why just yet.

You can tell me. I can keep a secret.


[ QUOTE ]
Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?

A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.

Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.

[/ QUOTE ]

I made a joke in another thread that someday I'd like to meet The Market, because evidently he's the most important player in the game.

All kidding aside, I am thrilled to finally have invention salvage storage. But the sting of losing that much capacity wouldn't smart so much if we got some relief on the eighteen bins per base limit. Is there any hope of that coming? Otherwise my SG is going to have to split into personal bases to handle our storage needs.


[ QUOTE ]
No rent is charged for basic utility items like Teleporters, Teleport beacons, Medical Reclaimator's, Basic Work Tables, and Invention work tables. Rent free bases of any size can still be built, with all the normal utilities available. In the future, we will be looking into improving how rent is charged as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for giving us hard numbers. It is always good to have solid info rather than speculation. However, I find it amusing that you don't see storage as a utility item. For my SG, it is the number one reason we have a base. Personal space, teleporters, medical items, those are all nice. But what we really want in a base is a big, big closet. We maxed out on storage bins before we ever built our first teleporter.


[ QUOTE ]
A. Actually, we looked at a lot of features. We have plans for not only Base Raiding and the Cathedral of Pain, but also the base editor as well. We want to add new base decorations, new permissions features, and a few more goodies as well. We are still working on these, and they will be added in as we can get them completed.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good to hear. Since all the I13 news we were getting focused on raiding and restoring things like IoPs and the CoP, those of us firmly in the PvE crowd were rather worried that our needs would go begging.

[ QUOTE ]
So, beyond that, I’ve been a long time reader of the base threads, and am looking forward to seeing the new bases that will be built. My goal is always to make base building better, and we will keep working to bring in new features to improve bases.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again, welcome. You will find that most of us are easy to talk to. We only get testy when we think no one is listening.

Welcome to the forum. And on behalf of the base builders, I promise we'll be gentle.

*snaps on latex gloves*

What?

(Just kidding. I look forward to wrangling issues with you.)

Base Repricing

[ QUOTE ]
1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?

[/ QUOTE ]

It will allow us to buy larger rooms so that some things like storage bins aren't so cramped. We can decorate more. But since we already have all the PvE needs covered, it won't change anything but the visual look of the base. There is no additional functionality that we can gain from the change.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Partially. Many rooms will be replaced by larger counterparts, but without destroying any crafted items.

[ QUOTE ]
3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?

[/ QUOTE ]

I intend to start in the early morning and tell my SG mates to stay out of the base for the rest of the day.

[ QUOTE ]
4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?

[/ QUOTE ]

The positive - Well, cheaper is always nice.

The negative - Having items crafted under the old system placed at the old cost is very irritating. To be honest, I intend to take the hit and place the Ley Tap I already have crafted rather than chase after the invention salvage to craft a new one.

And the whole 'tear your base apart to get it' issue? Very disappointing.

There is also the irritation that we will have all this nice shiny new prestige and nothing to buy. We have no interest in raiding, so we already have everything we need.

[ QUOTE ]
5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not much either way. As I said, we already have the necessities. This will give us the prestige to place some defense items we were planning on using for decoration, but beyond that, it doesn't accomplish much.


Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage

[ QUOTE ]
1) What is the negative effect on your base for this feature implementation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine personally? None right away, because I precrafted everything I thought we could possibly need that did not change much in placement cost. If I were starting a new SG or did not follow the boards, I would be howling at the difficulties that scrounging invention salvage is going to create.

But in the future if we decide we want something I didn't think of? I know perfectly well who is going to take it in the shorts to get the invention salvage.

[ QUOTE ]
2) What is the positive effect on your base for this feature implementation?

[/ QUOTE ]

None. I'm not being a smart aleck, I simply cannot see an upside to using invention salvage rather than base salvage.

[ QUOTE ]
3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, what's to learn? Have X items in your possession, hit button. The same as every other crafting mechanic in this game.

[ QUOTE ]
4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of my SG mates do not do any crafting. One won't even use WW. We give him all our SOs and DOs for him to sell. They will not be happy that they actually have to do something with whatever base salvage they have besides dump it in the bin. I predict I will be explaining things over and over.

The biggest side effect, however, is the loss of a place to keep things like Halloween salvage. Under the old system, one bin was more than enough to hold all the holiday items, base salvage and components. Now we will have a pittance. While I'm thrilled to have invention storage at long last, thirty items is laughably small.

[ QUOTE ]
5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?

[/ QUOTE ]

None. My SG is a small group of personal friends. To put it bluntly, I know where they live. But for the large SGs the devs seem to want to encourage for raiding, the problems will be massive. Better, more refined security permissions are something we *have* actually been asking for.


Additional Notes:

For our SG, this has put the storage issue front and center. Maybe losing salvage capacity wouldn't sting so much if we could just buy more bins to ease things. But we can't, because we're already at the eighteen bins per base cap. Now more than ever we are discussing splitting off into personal bases coalitioned with the main one so that we can increase our storage.

I have to give this to the devs, straight from the shoulder. Most of us see bases as a place to keep our stuff. My SG didn't bother to start a base until the storage bins were introduced. Raiding will never happen in my base. Storage, however, is needed each and every day.

All the best to you, and I hope your new position is everything you hope it will be. Good luck!

[ QUOTE ]
A storage limit of 30 salvage is ridiculous.

The system is more complex than the old.

It's burdensome to base builders. It encourages theft.

Issue 13 base salvage changes: Fail

Edit: Already crafted items place at the old cost, if you haven't placed them already they're wasted effort.

There are so many things wrong with this new system I get furious just thinking about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This. 30 items? That won't even hold my SG's Halloween salvage.

And I know there is no way they are going to reverse all these - well, to call them unwanted would be an understatement - changes, but could they at least make it so our precrafted items are placed at the lower cost? Devs, if you're going to screw us over, do you mind not rubbing our faces in the dirt while you're at it?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we know if rent costs are staying the same? That would give me pause before upgrading some of my bases' plots. No need to upgrade the size if a possible SG slowdown will lock me out of my base or make me tear it all back out to afford it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rent is now apparently based on the number of storage items (maybe some other items too?). It's undoubtedly a LOT lower than it is on Live. We were never given info on how rent had changed (or even that it changed at all), but some people were able to work out that it was based on the number of storage items they had.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, what???? Are you telling me that my tiny SG is going to see its rent go through the roof because we have 18 storage items???

[/ QUOTE ]

It's like 100 per storage item... some of the other crafted items are like 200 or 300 each.

Unless you pay zero rent now, the reduction in rent is drastic...and no longer based on plot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, breathing easier now. We have a 12x12 base with a rent of 43k. Since some rents are in the hundreds of thousands at the moment, I was seeing my SG's life pass before my eyes.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we know if rent costs are staying the same? That would give me pause before upgrading some of my bases' plots. No need to upgrade the size if a possible SG slowdown will lock me out of my base or make me tear it all back out to afford it again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rent is now apparently based on the number of storage items (maybe some other items too?). It's undoubtedly a LOT lower than it is on Live. We were never given info on how rent had changed (or even that it changed at all), but some people were able to work out that it was based on the number of storage items they had.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, what???? Are you telling me that my tiny SG is going to see its rent go through the roof because we have 18 storage items???

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Basic Telepad
Clockwork Winder, Temporal Sands, Simple Chemical, Psionic Manifestation
Alchemical Silver, Symbol, Inert Gas, Black Blood of the Earth
Ruby, Destiny, Silver, Hamidon Goo


[/ QUOTE ]
Crap on a cracker. And here I was the one who was giving the devs the benefit of the doubt to NOT MAKE THE TELEPAD REQUIRE HAMI GOO!!!

Grr.

Criminy sakes...the new base costs are enough to make me wanna rebuild the base to recoup costs. Thinkthinkthink...if I expand the size of the base from 8x12 to 12x16, assuming that would recover the prestige for the 8x12 plot size...make a new secure teleport bay in the new space, move all my present telepads there (and not waste frickin' valuable salvage rebuilding 8 arcane teleporters!)...

[/ QUOTE ]

Godamighty. Teleporters going from cheap and easy to "Delete one of these and you are out of the SG in a heartbeat!" That was intelligent. What happened to "We want to make things easier."

We already have all of ours, but I'm crafting a dozen extras, just in case, before I13 goes live.

QR

If an item was crafted using the old base component recipes, is it placed at the new cost or the old one?

[ QUOTE ]
1. Confirmation that patrol XP is optional

...

Yeah, I think I'm within my rights to be very damn worried.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm having a really hard time seeing anything worrying about people being able to choose which of a number of available offline-time bonuses they receive. People who want double xp can get it. Those who don't want it don't have to earn it. I can't see a downside to that.

[ QUOTE ]
(QR)
[ QUOTE ]
On patrol is the default Day Job for players who don’t log out from one of the specific Day Job locations. We wanted to make sure everyone got some type of reward, even if they didn’t have the time to get to a specific location before logging out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to see that this will work as originally announced, though now that On Patrol's reward is known I'm sure others won't be.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I saw that I mentally threw confetti into the air. I outlevel stuff enough as it is. Thanks, devs!

I would only be in favor of shortening the badge earning time if the time to recharge the temp power associated with it was doubled or tripled. Getting the badge means getting the goodies linked to it, and that shouldn't be too easy.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You basically have said to badge collectors exactly that: "Continue to collect badges, but only collect some of them."

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there's already a history of that. That's what those of us who can't do the ski slopes were told. "Physical or other problems that prevent you from twitch gaming? Tough noogies."

[/ QUOTE ]

By players, not explicitly by the developers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explicitly? No. But they did implicitly when they created a second, new set of badges based on the exact same twitch gaming for the upcoming winter event. There is no other message that can be drawn from that than, "We listened to your concerns about not being able to get those badges, and ignored them." So the devs don't really care if we can get all the badges or not.

Actually, I don't mind the thirty day earning time, and making those badges a long term goal. But I know that arguing that it isn't fair for the devs to create badges you feel you can't get has already failed to sway them, so you need to find another angle to convince them.

[ QUOTE ]
You basically have said to badge collectors exactly that: "Continue to collect badges, but only collect some of them."

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there's already a history of that. That's what those of us who can't do the ski slopes were told. "Physical or other problems that prevent you from twitch gaming? Tough noogies."

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't look at the day job badges as 'jobs my alt is doing right now". I look at them as skills that have been accumulated over their lifetime. Not that many people start off in one career and stick with it their entire lives.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you can do just that with Day Jobs. Within 10 days of unplayed time, your skills already start to give you benefits. (And 10 days is the maximum benefit, so you will likely see benefits in under a day of out-of-game time, depending on what kind of benefit it is.)

After 30 days, you are considered a professional at whatever you were doing. Players that want to be jacks of all trades can spend a small amount of time at each job, getting a wide range of bonuses, while those that want to focus on a few skills can become experts in those areas.

If the devs make the time requirements so short that everyone can get every job, then that makes all of the jobs meaningless. They might as well have a "Can Do Everything" job in that case. They don't want all players to have every single job. They want players to choose what they want to focus on just like they are required to choose which AT and power sets they want to play with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, while I have no problem with an alt having every day job badge, I also have no problem with the 30 day time period to earn them. The jobs I listed for myself are over my 45 year lifespan. I didn't do all those things in a couple of years.

I see nothing wrong with setting getting all the day job badges as a long term goal for my characters. Of course, I confess I'm more easy going about it because I doubt I'll have any problem getting them, seeing that I'm coming up on my 42 month badge and still don't have a 50. Altitis? Who has altitis?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Explain to me how one toon can have twenty or thirty day jobs. (Trizz, do NOT post that youtube here!)


[/ QUOTE ]

I know a guy (in real life) that has A) worked construction, B) was an amateur boxer, C) was a mechanic, D) was a car salesman, E) bred dogs for police use, F) was a master welder, G) was used as a human forklift, H) was a bouncer at a trucker rest haven, I) was a factory foreman, J) last I heard was doing custom metalwork design and fabrication.

That's just the stuff I know about, and he didn't have powers granted to him from beyond the unknowable veil of time and space, verily, infused with the powers of the gods themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or like me, who has been over the course of my life a farm worker, worked a factory assembly line, a secretary, a cashier/hostess in a restaurant, bred tropical fish, and have worked in three different areas of crime lab work - serology, drugs, and now computer crime. At the moment, I'm working on getting a writing career going.

I don't look at the day job badges as 'jobs my alt is doing right now". I look at them as skills that have been accumulated over their lifetime. Not that many people start off in one career and stick with it their entire lives.

QR

I'm hoping a dev can give us some clarification on one point. When day jobs were first discussed, they made it sound as though you either "worked at your day job" by logging off in one of the selected spots, or were "on patrol" if you logged anywhere else.

But the announcement makes it sound as though we are always on patrol when we log off. I disagree with that completely. It's enough of a pain to not outlevel some things in the game, like those stupid Safeguard missions. I think it should be one or the other. That way you can log off in a day job zone even if you don't care about it just to avoid the 2xp on alts you want to slow down.

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of people seem to be saying, "60 days is fair to earn an Accolade because you get a power at the end of it."

You may have failed to read that you can only use the power a set number of times, and then you have to log out at one of the two job locations that led to that Accolade for 8 days to fully recharge it. It's not like "Elusive Mind" and "Geas of the Kind Ones" where you just wait 15 minutes and they come back. They probably don't have a 15 minute timer between uses, either, but when they're gone, they're gone until you actively choose to spend 8 days not playing that character.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I would think that part of it would appeal to the RPers.

Forex, I have an alt who is a medical student. Say he gets the healing accolade to fit that. Heck, from an RP standpoint it fits him better than the medicine pool, since he 'studied' to get it. Part of the time I can set him to work towards other badges, and part of the time I can put him to recharge his accolade power. From what has been posted, it doesn't seem to be an all or nothing thing. Just choose what you want to work on that time.

QR

Wow, it's true. People on this board really can complain about anything. Considering that I've been in an MMO where your character's skills constantly degraded and it seemed like half the game was just running in place to keep what you had, I'm not going to complain about freebies.

For myself, I would only tweak it a little. I think the double xp bonus is overly generous, and I would trim the badge time back to roughly 25 days. That way if you were playing the alt regularly, your actual calendar earning time would be about a month.

And I have no problem with it taking time to earn all of them. This game is full of badges that can't be rushed, and there is nothing wrong with setting long-term goals.

QR

*knock on door*

"Congratulations, Sir or Madam, you have won the lottery. Here is your large check you did nothing to earn."

"You can't fool me! This is a trick to make me pay a lot of income tax!"

*door slams*