Punchy

Spine burst is still there. Quills was removed from spines.

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No, BETTER. They drain endurance (Ice also give slow resist and a slight amount of defense). Which is a heck of a lot better than a one brawl attack.

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Eh, the endo drain on those powers is pretty useless. You're not sucking even a minion dry with them. At least the damage from Consume helps you defeat the mobs a touch faster (although most of them will heal it back up before you get to them).

The endo drain is semi-useful if you're teamed with an electric blaster or a Kinetics user, but that's certainly not the common case.

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Fair enough, so let's just say the secondary effects of all three powers are pitiful and get to the real issue which is that the Ice and Energy powers have 1/3 the recharge.

Because there is NO way that a brawl damage attack justifies a 180 sec. recharge.

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Doesn't consume also have to be slotted for acc, while the others are autohit?

You probably should play a stalker, then, since it seems like you haven't. Stalkers aren't hard-mode pvp by any means, but it's not quite the 'I win' button you think it is.

Controller, actually. Ice/rad from the sound of it.

Hotfeet is autohit, but choking cloud isn't. Choking cloud afaik has really low accuracy, so it's fairly ineffectual at stopping a stalker.

And as I understand it the slow in hot feet eventually gets suppressed. When that happens it won't interrupt AS anymore. So just standing in hotfeet isn't 100% protection. Moving around while in hotfeet will protect you a lot more, since even if you do something that roots you it shouldn't be enough time (from the videos I've seen) for the suppression to kick in.

Very true. Actually, the emp IS the easiest target... but for some reason it's not uncommon to see everyone trying to hit the buffed and healed blaster.

It's very hard to test. Virtue doesn't have that many decent emps, and even fewer spines/ stalkers.

Wait a second, though: a non-stalker's -stealth cap is fairly low. Even with SI, according to peritus' numbers you'll see them WELL before they can see you if you have +per power. In fact, at the stealth cap (attainable via grant invis) you can actually stand within unenhanced impale range and not be seen. And my experience vs. level 50 illusion controllers running SI is that I can see them from quite a distance away. I've never seen one drop in and out of LoS unless they were far, far away.

Peritus' numbers seem to confirm it: a non-stalker at stealth cap is at -575 per. An SR or Nin stalker running their ranged defense is at +800 per. 225ft is what, half a superjump?

While I admit that the blasters can still see you with stacked CM even after tactics is gone, the stalkers should still be able to escape. This game favors the escapee, and each of the stalkers can make sure that only one of the two blasters will be attacking them at a time.

Finally... you actually need only 2 of the stalkers to be in hidden state to kill a defender, provided the other stalker doesn't miss with their impale. The two built-up crits will drop a defender to a sliver of life, from personal experience. In fact, I doubt that after two built-up crits a defender can heal themselves enough to survive a 3rd crit, even if they're off timing... healing aura is a 26% heal enhanced, and a BU impale crit drops a defender nearly 50%.

I admit the strategy is difficult to pull off, but we're assuming players with a high level of skill, working via voice-chat to syncronize their attacks.

Yeah, but we're talking about 3 grouped stalkers vs. 2 blasters and an emp. Let's suppose that the stalkers have grant invis, so that puts them at stealth cap.

If your 3 stalkers are spines, couldn't they just spike damage via impale the emp (who is the only one who can't see the stalkers) dead? If the blasters aren't running tactics themselves, suddenly they're blind... and the stalkers will most likely get away even if they have tactics, thanks to the magic of placate (unless a single blaster can quickly kill a stalker with only ranged attacks).

Are you entirely sure that one emp can stack +per via multiple applications of CM from the same buffer? If so, that's fairly broken. As I understood it, the main reason why the mez buffs stack is that before, when they 'replaced' the older buff there was a chance that a lingering status effect would take effect in the tiny window between one application and the next, and that could mean disaster when toggles drop. There's no such motivation to allow +perception to stack like that.

Well, to be fair, if they're EM they have better than tanker damage. (The other sets I'm not sure about.)

That's very flawed reasoning. Then scrappers and blasters are overpowered? You see them, scrappers especially, the most.

Stalkers are indeed very powerful, but their power possibly is the only thing that begins to balance hero vs. villain pvp. Honestly, stalkers cannot be nerfed without looking into hero ATs and also nerfing accordingly, or things will be terribly lopsided.

I'm sorry, but when you try to make a point by equating two things that aren't equal, I have to call you on it. Tar patch != trip mines. There. That's it.

As for nonsensical... you're trying as hard as you can to say that AS SHOULD have a range check because people can be slowed, and stalkers should have to team. Very true. People can be slowed, stalkers should team. But so should you! When you say something like 'slows from corruptors and doms are brutal and can't be overcome by quickness' it sounds very blatantly like you're solo! Well, GET A TEAM. Get speed boosted! All of a sudden those slows aren't that important. (Not to mention that superjump, one of the most common travel powers in pvp heavily negates slows.)

What I see from your posting is that you have a profound lack of understanding of how pvp works, of how ATs synergize and how the balance lies. Is there a problem in pvp? I believe so, others disagree. But most of us will agree it has nothing to do with your angry ranting.

Wait a second. You have someone STANDING AROUND after being ASd and placated long enough for AS to recharge? That's remarkably stupid. On both the part of the victim and the stalker.

So you played your scrapper in BB, and therefore you know the stalker playstyle? Yes, stalkers can get easy kills with AS vs. controllers/defenders... but you shouldn't be getting kills JUST with AS vs. anything else. Unless they're AFK or colossally stupid.

There are points to be made about stalkers, I believe. But one of them is not 'stalkers should have to slot more than one attack'. They do. When you claim theydon't you come off as ignorant to actual gameplay facts and extremely opinionated.

Again... what? How can you equate being TPd into a mine field and being TPd into a tar patch by a MM? One allows you a chance to fight back. The other doesn't, most of the time.

Besides... if you were a scrapper, you're telling me you couldn't get out of the tar patch before they killed you? Or if you were a blaster you weren't able to come right back and 2-shot the MM?

And if we're speaking of buffs, where are -your- teammates? Where's a kineticist to give you a speed boost, so you could entirely ignore that tar patch? Or all those slow effects you suggest are SO very effective at getting you ASd in pvp?

... what?

You can't AS -> placate -> AS. Or: you can, but only if you're standing around for quite a long time after the first AS.

Stalkers slot quite a few of their attacks; even NB stalkers don't rely ONLY on AS (they just lack the power to follow up an AS other sets get).

If you think a stalker can get by just on AS, without slotting their other attacks, then you are showing a profound lack of understanding of the stalker playstyle, and, as others have suggested, you should try playing one yourself. I won't tell you PVPing with a stalker is HARD, but then it doesn't seem particularly hard to pvp with a properly-built blaster or scrapper.

Actually, it might because it removes the rooting effect. So they can toss RI 'on the run'.

It sounds like you're being assaulted not only by a corruptor, but by 3 stalkers. And it sounds like you're solo. How does that prove anything? A scrapper loses to 3+ stalkers and 1+ corruptor/dominator? I would hope so.

What if a -stealth power were applied on an ill/ controller, wouldn't that help determine the size of the +stealth buff? If the magnitude of the -stealth power were known, of course.

Longbow has wardens, but arachnos has night widows. In arena gladiator events, at least, they're FRIGHTENINGLY powerful. Haha, I wonder if they'll get even worse with the upcoming claws fix.

Isn't slow a status effect, as well as the SPD, Recharge debuff? I say this because it seems like it can be outright resisted, and not just countered with certain buffs. My kinetics-user, even with a couple of siphon speeds on her still is made slower by quicksand. Meanwhile, it seems that speed-boosted friendlies can run right out of quicksand.

I just say this because maybe slow isn't a good type of effect to argue about, since it's arguably both a control (is imparting status effects control?) and a debuff.

In another thread, hopefully.

He really, really, really won't stop as long as you keep replying to him. Heck, I'm going to avoid using numbers in this thread from this point on.

Actually, I don't think he intended to obfuscate it either, but I do feel that the devs don't necessarily research (or consult each other about) an issue before posting on the forums, and that's why I think I'd like some confirmation. I base this on that 'nullifier toggledrops' thread a few weeks back.

Hah, in SC I run invincibility and it kills me MORE quickly than if I had it off.

Actually, I was thinking about this, and I'm not sure if it's true. Is a brute's rooted's slow effect smaller in magnitude than a tanker's? Should it be?

But anyway... I'm not sure if you should continue arguing with anarchicgorilla, since I've seen him carry on 'mathematical' arguments for PAGES in other threads, which just makes them drift off-topic with an endless flow of rather meaningless numbers.