Player99
-
Posts
327 -
Joined
-
Quote:responses in bold...Originally Posted by Bellen
Solo = Self Sufficient Build (good damage and midigation) Bot/traps
Teaming = Best a Specific function need by a team (need to pick a role, damage, healing, cc, buffs ? no do all) bot/traps can tank and debuff/buff/damage
Farming = Best attacking out groups of easier monsters (usually AOE focus, with overall damage) Assault Bot says Hi
Tough = (AV>GM) High single Damage output and good single target Mitigation Assault Bot's Incindiary missles + web nade says hi
PvP = .... Bots/traps with TP foe
If any build met the criteria, then why would any one play anything else.
because bot/trap can be dreadfully boring at times -
just thought of another:
a mix of the MM trap's tier 9 and Assassin Strike.
essentially, stealthily plant a bomb on a target, either after X time or you detoggling the power, it blows up sililar to time bomb -
Quote:then why are there so many brutes?Originally Posted by Silas
Honestly? I've no idea.
For what its worth, I'm not sure how much damage a blaster would have to do for me to invite one over a corruptor to my team, but it would have to be pretty broken.
No amount of damage a blaster brings is going to make them a force multiplier. Force multipliers rule this game.
they *are* a force, not a multiplyer -
anywho, going off a hypothetical here, and probably inacurate maths...
the fabled Fire/elec build i mentioned earlier that can break 300 dps, did about 312 dps.
with a mod of say, 1.4 for range, 1.25 for melee: it could easily shoot out 350+
think 100 more dps than the top scrapper build should close the gap? -
i was referring to fire/kin cors, but whatever
anywho, the kheldian squiddies have a technical Ranged damage mod of like, 1.4 or such, and they doen go around 1-shotting everything. Granted, a blaster has more attacks... -
Quote:true, and i dont think anyone except for I think a fire/fire/mu Dom can match the raw output of a fire/elec/(elec usually) blaster, both which can breach the 300dps benchmark.Originally Posted by Silas
This is true.
One could argue that Blasters can get high levels of mitigation through IOs (ranged softcap def etc) but that's largely moot as the same level of investment would make a tough scrapper even tougher while putting out competetive damage.
IMO, I agree with you. Blasters do have the highest raw damage, but many other ATs can come close while bringing more to the team/being easier to solo. Shame, really. Although it is worth noting that if you have the support to keep them on their feet (emp or therm or what have you), some blaster combinations can put out absolutely ludicrous amounts of raw damage.
My Fire/MM blaster is monstrous with a good emp.
however, this still falls under what I said earlier: other ATs can do near blaster level damage, but with disproportionate defenses. The problem is that while blasters do like, 1.2 x as much damage as a (scrapper/brute/potato), those at's are 2.5x as tough at the least.
Hell, even the fire/kin corruptor can match blaster damage, while having Kinetics to at least help defend itself.
I wonder if it would be game-breaking to buff the blaster Damage scale yet again to say, 1.5. (and melee from 1.00 to a scrapper's 1.25) Blasters would be undisputed kings of damage, but that's it. -
you know, i think blasters dont have enough cannon for the glass part..
i mean, scrappers/brutes/corrs/doms can *approach* their level of damage, while having much more disproportionate levels of defence, whether it be from a armor secondary, or just migitaion via debuffs/control
I mean, who cares if the blaster does 270 dps, while the scrapper does 250 and is 5x tougher? -
I'd like more powers that have attributes like Oil Slick (arrow)
For example, a water control set could have a "bubble" that can do different stuff based on what you or other players attack it with:
Ice attacks freeze it and all inside (or just slow)
Fire attacks boil it and do some DoT
etc, etc. -
Hi all, I've been pondering this for a little while, especially after lurking around the forums for as long as I have. I have seen many, many claims of X build can handle AV's no problem, Y build can farm like nobody's business, etc, etc.
But here is the big question: in the grand scheme of things, what build is overall the best (not from a flavor standpoint or playstyle, I mean technically the best) for simply playing anything in CoX? This includes:
-solo
-teaming
-farming
-tough target take down (AVs and even GMs)
-PvP
or whatever else you can come up with.
In my personal opinion, I think it is down to these two:
Ill/storm and ill/rad:
I am not an expert on controllers, but word is that these two can make the game easy mode. An ill/rad has even been reported to have Soloed Lusca. /rad gives the controller powerful debuffs that it's pets take well advantage of, but storm offers even more shenanigans that honestly shuts down essentially everything when combined with ill/'s shenanigans. I don't know exactly which is better of these two blue-side reps, but the ill/rad does have the title of soloing lusca, and /storm isnt exactly team or farm friendly. However, all of storm's craziness could be a boon in PvP?
Bots/Traps
The second candidate and the red-side rep, I think this guy can essentially do anything in the game it wants to. On the MM boards there are numerous threads showing this build taking down the Redside GM's with ease, with one guy even taking down every one. There is also a thread showcasing a player tearing through +4,x8 missions no problem, something other At's would see as a tough challenge, he takes it as a field test of his latest macro. The build is team friendly, but may not be as effective due to traps taking a bit of time to set as the team allready goes ahead. Farming also isnt an MM strongpoint. In PvP the bot's uncanny toughness and lesser resisted damage output, along with /trap's multiple debuffs could spell trouble.
Now, i don't know if my opinion here is accurate, but what do you guys think could be the ultimate build? -
Quote:they simpy cannot beat the raw power. however, some fights they can beat out a blaster, but it is very rare.Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
That's a good point I was forgetting enhancement slotting. You're right, it's not very realistic, I'm ignoring Build Up (both have Aim), Defiance and the fact that Defenders get better bonuses from sonic than Blasters. Overall, I mostly wanted to point out that the sets with high -res or +dam do close the gap to a considerable extent.
Defenders will never have the overall damage levels of blasters but some primaries do give them a decent boost.
also, while defs get more -res from sonic, Blaster's sonic does more damage per hit, and has defiance... -
Quote:but thats without BU/Aim or even e second shot (defiance).Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
They can come very close though, if you take the best case solo scenario a Cold Defender with Assault (60% resistance debuff some of the time) compared to a Blaster with Assault the defender will do 99.3% of the Blaster's damage against even level enemies.
-
Quote:i never said -50% res, i said the def somehow eliminated the resistance (which would need like, -100% or some silly number) It's just a hypothetical giving a really basic means of how a Def could outdamage a blaster vs some targetsOriginally Posted by Rush_Bolt
No.
50% -RES does not cancel out 50% RES. RES resists -RES. Assuming this hypothetical Defender did have 50% -RES, it would actually only give out 25% -RES since the 50% RES on the AV would resist 50% of the 50% -RES.
So...
(100 DPS - (100 DPS x (50% RES + (50% RES x -50% -RES))) - 25 REG=
(100 - (100 x (50% + -25%))) - 25 =
(100 - (100 x 25%)) - 25 =
(100 - 25) - 25 =
75 - 25 =
= 50 -
Quote:lol, forgot about snipes...Originally Posted by FireWyvern
If you're talking only of damage, as in burst, then blazing bolt (fire's snipe) wins.
If you're talking highest DPS, there's a bunch of better power then KO Blow, namely Clobber and Seismic Smash, wich both recharge faster then KO Blow.
anywho, with DPS Blaze wins no contest I belive. The thing does like...51.21 DPS by itself with just SO's, and has 309.95 DPA. (blaster #'s)
dunno if anything outperforms it in both areas anywhere with other AT's -
Quote:depends...Originally Posted by Darth_Vernon
A side question. Does anyone know what the highest damaging power in the game is for ST and AoE. I was thinking it was Total Focus (prob blaster version w/ build up, aim, assault, and I/Os). Probably a nuke for AoE right?
for reliable damage i think Blaze wins no question. Possibly with KO Blow in second. Overall however Total Focus and Energy transfer put out the epic power in one shot, but have horrid animation times and i believe recharge times.
AoE wise, Rain of arrows is where it's at if you are looking at reliable damage you can kinda spam, but Blizzard on a Corruptor wins AoE no contest. -
the damage differnce while solo is 90% in the blaster's favor, but 10% of the time some defender builds can actually outdamage some blaster builds due to the nature of Debuffs vs certain targets.
for example, you have an AV that has 50% resistance and regens 50.
a blaster with raw power lets say shoots out 200dps, that will be halved to 100 by the res, and -50 from the regen. The blaster now shoots out 50dps vs the AV.
a defender could be pushing 100 dps, but also has the benifit of -resist and -regen. Lets say the defender eliminates the resistance (still doing 100 dps), and halves the regen, and now does 75 dps.
Nowadays, it may be a bit of a stretch as even my own blaster, who has only a purple pet set in Voltaic Sentinel, and is elec3 (not the *best* damage oriented blaster) can pump out 270ish DPS on a good day, so blasters may just have the raw power to close the gap in some cirumstances like this (he'd be doing 85 dps in this example, with no debuffs to aid him).
Another note is some blaster sets offer these debuffs, such as sonic/ and /mental. So the vast majority of the time the blasters will flat out beat a defender in terms of damage, but there are cases where the defender can shine as well, and even out-damage some blaster builds in the long run (but this is rare).
Another boon however is that defenders can damage foes much more safely also due to debuffs, but thats a slightly different story. -
Quote:VVVVVOriginally Posted by FireWyvern
If it's not for GMs, AVs and purples bosses....why do you want the single best damage? Any blaster/scrapper is more then enough to finish a mob in a few secondes....
If you want to take a team into consideration.... then you'd have to find a way to make it fair. Obviously, a team of 7 scrappers will much prefer to have a kin, rad, dark, etc with them then a blaster. While a team of offenseless defender/controller/tanker would prefer a blaster.
Since a blaster and a defender are so different, you can't put them in the "same" team of 7, and expect it to be fair.
thats whyQuote:1. fully slotted for damage. playing team only.
anywho, the defender builds shouldnt matter as long as fire/mental exists. It has -regen available, in blaster form. -
solo isnt the question though, its for a team setting, and with a team you need to factor in that there will be at least 1 damage dealing AT on it, which outshines the Def as even though the def sets up the team to do more damage, all it's doing is makign the Damage AT even better, thus keeping it's rank as the damage dealer of the group.
also, should like 5% of the games content (GM's) be taken in consideration for which does a better job, as the GMs have specific requirments you need to fill to beat? -
Quote:All true, but that same effectiveness also varies greatly by team make-up and size. For example, although the defender definitely adds damage, it wont be significant if its just the Def, a tank and like a PB lets say (although the kheld gets dam from them anywho, but thats another story).Originally Posted by NeonMan
Well, did the team do that much damage before they arrived? No? Then I consider them to be damage dealers, yes, since they are contributing damage to the team. If built and played well, on a full team they contribute damage FAR in excess of their percentage of the team makeup. Fun facts (using Defender numbers here):
1 member out of 8 = 12.5% of the team roster.
Assault adds 9.3-ish% damage to the team.
Therefore a Defender doing nothing but running Assault and blasting is contributing at least their fair share of the team's damage. That's not even touching their primary powerset, most of which can buff team damage far in excess of that. To pick a random example Freezing Rain debuffs resist by 22% vs. +3 opponents (more if they're lower). So by hitting one power per fight, running Assault, and shooting said Defender is contributing more damage than any blaster I've ever managed to build. Maybe there's some miracle blaster who can top that, if so I'd like to see the build.
Oh, they could also do some "defendey" stuff too, I guess. *shrug*
On the same note, a blaster on that team would be 10x as good due to it just being able to run in: BU + AoE = everyone died. As opposed to a def who has to setup buffs or debuffs first.
on a full team, the blaster would contribute the same static amount of BU + blah = dead guys. The def would be even better as more sources of damage are buffed/more enemies are debuffed, making the net effect better, but again..it isn't directly dealing the damage, it's just making everyone else better. Now if the blaster and the defender are on the same team, the blaster wins out IMO as at a base level, the blaster does pump out more damage, and after the Def does it's thing, the blaster is simply going to be pumping out even more.
It's not that im disagreeing necesarily, it's just I dont see the Def as a damage dealer, as much as a damage enabler.
true, but again, it would be the damage dealers in the team pumping out those #'s, the def simply enables them to do so, while without the def they are still doing more damage than anyone else on the team...Quote:They sure would. Said damage dealer often won't even realize that he's become even better due to the actions of another character, he'll just melt spawns faster than before and think, "Wow, I'm amazing!" This is why I included the caveat that helping the team isn't the way to go if you're egocentric. Some knowledgeable players will recognize the contribution, most will just wonder why their last team sucked compared to this one. 
-
Quote:yes, but do they actually count as damage dealers, as they arent really the ones doing damage?Originally Posted by NeonMan
Because assuming you don't run into stacking limits (seldom an issue), a buffing/debuffing defender who uses their abilities well adds more damage to a full team than a blaster does. The fact that the damage increase shows up mostly on your teammates' orange numbers and not your own is irrelevant, if the goal is to do the most damage and you aren't a glory hound.
Sure, you could have damage buffs and resist debiffs to make the TEAM's damage output better, but does that mean that that particular build/at/potato is good at pumping out damage, seeing as all it does is allow everyone else to do more damage?
what if a damage dealer is on the team allready? wouldnt they then just ebcome even better? -
Quote:yeah, fire's powers are just too good by themselves, then tack on the extra damage they do as a side-effect and you have epic damage.Originally Posted by Silverado
Maybe, but even with all the -res stacking, Sonic is still way behind Fire in damage (solo). You should be able to do AVs just fine though
-
wait wait wait.....why have blasters been mentioned only like, twice here?
-
yeah, im giving it a half hour
EDIT:
huh...still didnt work -
yeah, but it was paypal...
-
so..i finally got my money order in on paypal today.
go on the store, buy Science pack no problem
go back and try to buy Martial Arts:
"we're sorry, please try again later or tomorro" o_O -
my charts did an actual % increase in effectiveness, not the actual raw numbers..
in other words, comparing power X between mach 2 and purple builds, overall it is only like 5% less efficient even though the stats are higher, they arent *that* much higher.