Pirates_Rule

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This isnt the case, yet we're now forced to be amongst those who think that way.

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No one is forcing you to get the badge.

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Does this mean that villains can get isolator too, if thats the case, then heroes should get jail bird too.

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Now we begin to see the continued shortsightedness of the Devs' handling of Isolator.

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Wow, ye of little faith.

Isolator is marked as "Hero Only". Villains can kill the contaminated for 100 years, and never get the badge.

Only Heroes can get the badge.

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um... how is your average villain going to know that?
I can forsee a lot of villains trying, stealing kills from heros in the process, and then raising a fuss when they wonder why their efforts aren't being rewarded.

Just move the one Contaminated over to Peregrine or somewhere so Villains will never see him.

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As a villain, I like being able to interrupt the efforts of heroes. Sounds like a totally intentional mechanic.

Great thread, the format suggestion is a good idea, a sticky for this thread isn't a bad idea either.

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In that you can keep it out permanently. Did I miss something about the Patron power pets not needing to be recast? Do Controllers' pets not need to be recast? I thought it was only Masterminds. But I'm not big on pets. I only have one on my 39 Corruptor because there was no power I really wanted to take at 38.

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I haven't actually seen anything official myself, but supposedly the patron power pool pets (say that ten times fast) are permanent (in the non recasting way). Control Pool pets have been that way since I5.

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So how does this still explain how PATRON pool pets can be perma, but Dark Servant the 9th tier power for defenders is still thrown to the curb by not being perma :/. Bringing this up again cause it still exists and is a HUGE QoL issue, not an uberness factor.

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Interesting that Defenders can't have it out permanently. Because Dark Miasma Corruptors can.

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Permanent in that you can keep it out permanently, or permanent as in you don't need to recast?

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This power, when looking on the bright side, is an area effect debuff. Accuracy I believe?

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And damage.

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So what makes darkest night "unpredictable?" Well, first of all, it is not just an AE debuff, it is an aura you stick on a single enemy target. If the rest of the enemies suddenly move away from him for some reason, they lose the debuff.

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Fortunately, we know that Darkest Night does not exist in a vacuum. Almost anyone with the Dark set will have tar patch. Tar patch means the rest of the group is NOT going to be moving away. Since Tar Patch comes complete with autohit -speed and -fly debuffs, it's VERY effective.

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If your teammates kill off that particular enemy early, the debuff drops.

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Pick a target with a name that is unique to the group, if possible (such as the boss/lt/or a minion that doesn't have any doubles).
/bind ctrl+button4 "team $target is my focus$$powexec_name Darkest Night"

Now your team should have no trouble not killing your target. If they do, then it's because your team is unpredictable, not the set.

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Finally, of all things, this is an accuracy debuff. As nice as that is, there is no guarentee that the enemies will not get lucky and land lots of hits on you anyway.

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Again, not in a vacuum. Pick up Fearsome Stare (another pretty much must have power). Not only does it add more accuracy debuff on top of darkest night, but it holds all enemies in their place unless you are attacking them. Their accuracy is not only massively debuffed, but they can only attack you after you attack them. Even con minions are pretty much floored at that point, and +2/3s aren't that big of a threat either.

I'm really not so sure what's unpredictable about this. By level 15 I could solo spawns in my missions set to unyielding with 2 players in it, and I wasn't able to twink my dark since it was on a different server from my main.

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Anyway, this really has NOTHING to do with the subject of patron power pools.

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True, but it's still an interesting debate.

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Maybe it's just me, but that's in pretty poor taste.

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It's not just you.

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Baron Faust won't associate with other villains. They're too petty. He needs no Supergroup!

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They're affordable solo. Or maybe he inherited them from Baron Fausto, his father.

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Seriously, though, does anyone actually do this? Is someone out there so committed that they won't use the ferry or helicopter lines? How does one PvP with that extreme devotion?

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As Clint said, I don't think anyone is seriously saying that PPPs should be taken out, or anything that extreme. Just that maybe we could have some alternatives that aren't so constricting.

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To everyone who's having character issues here, take time to pause. This villain is a sinister, brooding Mastermind; let's call him Baron Faust. With an army of the walking dead, he scoffs at the very idea of lowering himself to work with those pitiful whelps at Arachnos! He's stolen souls, he's defeated iconic heroes, he's...lost his ferry pass! Curses!

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Good thing Baron Faust has a base with Teleporters, and doesn't need the ferry system at all.

States, is there anything being planned for those who would rather remain independant?

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Its to late at this stage to have ... the color of electric melee for villains changed.

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Oh, please. They just need to change that one spot in the code where it says 255 0 0 to 224 255 255. kthx

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If they wrote code correctly, you'd be right.

But we'd have had shared mission completion and newspaper-style missions hero side by now if they did that.

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I understand people like their characters. Heck, Lord knows I've been [censored] over a couple. I quit for three months after I5. I just think it's important that people realize the source of the sadness in this thread isn't one-sided. It's two-sided: the direction the devs are taking on the one hand, and a certain level of stubborn rigidity on the other. Not meant as an insult. Just as an observation.

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I don't think anyone is being unreasonably stubborn about this. It's that I (we?) don't have anywhere to fall back to besides quitting, as only the devs have the ability to change it. It's a take it or leave it situation for me (and I think most of my villains will probably leave it, if I even bother to do the 40 game more than once). But the devs, who are no doubt still reading the feedback, can choose to alter the situation (even if it takes a couple issues for them to do it), and it seems that there are many who would like this reconsidered.

I can choose not to do any of the 40+ content, but I think that pretty much everyone can agree that choosing not to play the game is not a winning move (except in the case of global thermonuclear war).

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So it comes down to the proverbial rock and a hard place. Some people want a bigger overall story arc. Some people want more freedom to do whatever they want. Both pay the same 15 dollars a month.

How would you handle it?

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You seem to think these are mutually exclusive. I see no reason why both can't coexist. The big overall arc doesn't have to interfere with freedom. If you want to impact things on a large scale, join up. If you wanna just go be a villain on your own, you'd be ignoring all the other stuff anyway.

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I think having two different games, one each that fits each philosophy, is a great way to solve the problem.

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And I think it's a poor one.

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And really, that brings us into the next argument. "CoV feels too much like CoH" versus "CoV isn't similiar to CoH enough." Both sides have their points and non-points. Both sides pay the same 15 dollars a month.

How would you handle it?

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It's a non-issue IMO. I don't see what it matters how similar the games are or aren't to each other, what matters is whether they're fun. Is CoV fun? Sure is. But it's not nearly fun enough to keep my 15 dollars a month after the first couple months I played it. The only time I've spent on CoV lately is to try and painfully solo through the last 2 levels on my dominator.

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If we're truly admitting this is a case about imagination, then we have to concede that imagination has no boundries. What's in the game is a starting off point only if you will it so. You can sidestep it all you want.

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Just because you can imagine something, doesn't mean you enjoy it.

I can imagine up a story about me becoming a princess and being chased by all the hansdome princes in the land, but I won't have fun doing it.

I'm certain anyone who wants can come up with a story that fits. I think the complaint has always been that its a constricted position. Not that it cant be done.

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[comic knowledge]

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I'm not even gonna try to put up an argument on this front. I'll just say that most of the villains that stick out in my mind are of the manner I described.

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In my opinion, a lot of these objections boil down to me to be "I can't be in charge and I can't be cool if I'm not in charge". I just think that's just bogus thinking, and I don't know how you could implement it so two hundred thousand players are all in charge.

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You were just saying how there's a difference between being a lackey and working in a hierarchy. Well there's a difference between being in charge, and not taking orders as well. Just look back at CoH. None of my heroes have felt like they were in charge, but they didn't feel like lackeys of the Freedom Phalanx either.

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If I were going to complain about anything, it'd be that.

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I think there's too many things I'd like to complain about with regards to the PPPs.

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I doubt it'll happen, but I can't say that we won't, for a fact. Neither can you. All we can do is say that it's very unlikely.

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No, but I can say not having that option is foolish. I can say a lot more about it, but I don't think its necessary as the argument pretty much is self explanatory.

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Where's my option to borrow or steal temporary powers when I think I need them in CoH instead of waiting on the occasional largesse of a contact? Where's my option to take Portal Corps portals where I think I need to be instead of where some contact heard some other guy tell his shoeshine boy that there was a strange signal? Where's my option to take sidekicks into Hazard or Trial Zones where there are people waiting to be rescued and to hell with the gate guards?

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Damn good question. If I was in charge contacts would only be one of many ways to obtain a mission.

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There's a certain level of "deal with it" necessitated in either system.

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True, but heroes are supposed to try to work within the system. There seems to be a decent amount of backstory in PC relating to heroes' position within the legal system. It's not an entirely radical idea to expect them to work within the rules.

But villains? No, the villains that make good characters are the ones that don't lick the boots of a superior. There's no room for those kind of villains on the rogue isles, only the kind that can follow the rules and do what their told!

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Where's the option to change alliances and go over to other patrons?

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They said they're working on it.

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Honestly, I can't imagine how any of this got off the drawing board without that feature.

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Where's the option to pick up 7 of my buddies and just get into a fight with the patron and take the powers?

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How do you know you don't get the chance to?

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I think it's pretty clear that obtaining these powers will be more in depth than a single AV fight.

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P.S. - The Dictionary is a much better source than Wikipedia as it cannot be altered by just any nobody on the internet.

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And with the entire internet doublechecking the work, I'll take wikipedia over a select group of dictionographers.

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"Keep your friends close but your enemies closer."

EDIT: These are villains. They don't have to be telling you the truth all the time.

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Wait, wait, wait. Villains???

Where's the option to pick up 7 of my buddies and just get into a fight with the patron and take the powers?

Where's the option to change alliances and go over to other patrons?

Where's the option to sneak in and steal the powers under cover of night?

Oh right. We are villains who follow the rules! Grrrr! Scary!

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You could just as easily take it that the Patron is afraid of what your character is becoming and is sucking up to you with gifts...

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From Wikipedia:

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Generally, patronage is the act of supporting or favoring some person, group, or institution. A patronage system has different characteristics depending on the area in which it is practiced. Generally it can be described as a system where someone in a powerful position (the Patron) offers handouts in return for support.

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Maybe they just picked a bad name for the pools, but it comes off to me like I get powers in exchange for doing stuff for the patrons. If they're afraid of me, why am I doing stuff for them?? It seems to me like it will take a serious pair of blinders to RP this into the PC having the dominant position. Maybe not though.

This could all be incredibly easily solved by offering pools similar to the mastery pools to non-aligned villains. Or even just make patron pools exclusive from mastery pools. Take the patron, do the content, but if you want, you can stick with the mastery pools at the expense of patron powers. Or you can respec back into your patron's powers and out of your mastery pool later.

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And then I came back to CoV and started playing. I was trying not to think ahead, because I knew what the 40s would bring me - nothing. I'd have all my powerset powers by 38, so what else would I take? Kick, Tough, Weive, something else I haven't decided on. Extremely underwhelming. So much so, that I really don't want to think about it, because it's depressing.

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This sounds about right. I opened up my hero planner the other day to figure out what I was going to do with my brute in the 40s, since all the patron pools left me with a feeling of "bleh". I stared at it for about 10 minutes, and closed it. I feel like I'm more interested in taking my brute to 50 just so I have a level 50 villain, than I am in playing him through the content, and that bothers me.

I think what amazes me the most is that even after all the great QoL improvements that drew me to CoV in the first place, I apparently seem to prefer the poorer QoL in CoH to CoV, cause it's just a more fun game to play. My SG has moved back almost completely to the hero side, and the only time I spend in the rogue isles lately is to painfully try to level my dominator to 40 using PUGs and warburg missions since there isn't nearly enough 35+ content.

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Captain Mako -Leviathan Mastery

Spirit Shark #1 of Brute and Stalker
School of Sharks #2 of Brute and #1 of Corruptor and Mastermind
Chum Spray #3 of Brute and #2 of Dominator and Mastermind
Summond Guardian #4 of Brute and Stalker(also #4 dominator in Scirocco set)
Water Spout #2 of Stalker and #1 of Dominator
Spirite Shark Jaws #4 of Mastermind and #3 of Corruptor and Dominator
Shark Skin #2 of Corruptor and #3 of Dominator and Mastermind
Summon Coralax #4 of Corruptor and Dominator

Unique power only Archetype of Captain Mako

NONE! and Oh! Yea! NONE!

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This whole post was worth reading, but I think this part here exemplifies the problems I have with the PPPs. Very little variety between Patrons and even between ATs just makes me lose interest. Add to that a general lack of synergy (esp compared to Ancillary pools), and this whole thing starts to look like someone's brain fart.

And why does everyone need a pet? Isn't that why masterminds are around?

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PvPTaunt changes: When a player is being taunted, the effect can now be broken by running a good distance away. Additionally, hiding out of LOS of the taunter will cause the effect to expire sooner.


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This is being tested on Test right now...


Yeah...

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Don't know if this is I7 or before but...Guantlet will work in PvP soon.

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Will this include taunting auras?

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So here's a serious question.

Why doesn't the Brute who takes Mace Mastery get a SMASH power. You put a gigantic mace in my brute's hands...it just screams SMASH!!

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If you give a brute a mace, the brute needs to hit things with the mace. This is as basic as it gets.

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Well, at least you spelled out why you don't like them.(unlike the person I initially responded to) I can respect that. Why don't we both wait for the hard numbers and then rejoin this topic, ok?

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Dont think the numbers are going to help.

The base power choices are poor.

Dominators so desperatly need a build up its not even funny. Yet they give them end recoveries, they dont need end recoveries they need damage enhancers.

The powers themselves are wrong, the numbers wont help it.

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Um? They already have their click domination power that boosts damage and mezzing? Why do they need another damage boost?

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Hi my name is power boost if you want me so bad take Energy or Icy Assault

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Power boost in no way boosts damage.