PRAF68_EU

It would need a lot more than a "little" time, and given that a lot of CoX players aren't here for the PvP, they would be rather cross if the devs waisted yet more vast quantities of time on it instead of adding PvE content.


There are lots of games with good PvP, but very few games which are as much fun PvE as CoX. It should focus on adding more of what it does well, not fiddling with something it does badly.

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Replacing it with an effect that means the bottom line remains the same.


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That's the point. Bottom line, Invun doesn't underperform mathmatically relative to the other sets, if you take the passives.

It underperforms subjectively, at leat partially because people look at 7.5% and say "not worth taking", when in reality, over the lifetime of a character it represents millions of hp of damage not recieved.

So the objective is to make it look and feel better, without making significantly more powerful, because that would make it overpowered.

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Fun, but a good way to kill everyone's performance.

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in the day's of when half life was still the hot game, i had a weak P1 166MHz computer and weather didn't kill any performance.
the weather doesn't kill performance if it's done right.

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/e slaps forehead.

Weather wouldn't hurt performance.

Hero2's suggestion, which is basically to use the physics engine to spawn individual snowflakes, would kill performance (which doesn't make it a bad idea, it could work, and it could look good, it would just need a really really high spec machine).

Adding a few physics engine snowfakes for people with high end machines, in addition to doing it the normal way, could be very effective, since it would let you kick snow around, send up swirls when running etc.

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walljump.....now don't say that's not possible, even HL can do that...(and we all know how limited HL is -_-)

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HL uses a completly different sort of engine.

Castle has made a number of posts on this topic, and it appears that he was pursuaded to look at Invun on the grounds that it was uninteresting, rather than underpowered.

He thinks that one reason it underperforms is people skip the passives, so he is going to make them more interesting by adding secondary effects. e.g. slow resist to Resist Elements, Energy Drain resist to Resist Energies, and def debuff resist to Tough Hide.

He also recognises that it is difficult to fit many larger mobs into the radius of Invince, so that may get increased.


The other thing he could do is remove the resistance from Unyelding along with the -def, and share it out to the passives.

The golden monkies should be tier three. Tier one should be brass monkies. Whenever they are hit by a cold attack they use a ballbering attack (works like Ice Slick).

/yes to monkies

Fun, but a good way to kill everyone's performance.

Yup, I agree with Shadowe. Some of the VRs are rubbish, because they are meant to be rubbish: they are there to spread out the good stuff. Letting people choose defeats the object of VRs, to keep them playing year upon year.

No texture = looks awful, especially close too (unless you have a rubbish GPU anyway).

There is no technical reason why they couldn't do snow properly (they have already done frozen versions of the lakes in Steel Canyon). It's just a matter of developer time.

Unfotunatly, snow is not flat. It piles on roofs, it drifts into piles. When you walk on snow it goes crunch crunch and you leave footprints.

What might look passible in a screen shot wouldn't pass muster in close inspection.

I would like snow, but if it's worth doing it's worth doing properly.

Yup, half the end cost, same buff, and I think the rooted time is shorter too.

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I don't know if it's been suggested, but how about monster-play as an option? So you can't level the character you control at all, but you do get to fight against the players?

Perhaps offer progress for monster players by giving them tougher monsters/more notorious AVs to control after an amount of time or even a number of players defeated or whatnot?

In order to give players incentive to begin this passage, perhaps offer costume piece rewards or badges (for all their regular characters) for getting up to the top AVs?

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There is, sort of, in the form of gladiator matches.

However, I like this idea. Playing a longbow commander in Siren's Call could be fun.

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In most PvP zones, they have these things called walls, which you will eventually hit if you just press move forward.

Not to mention it is very difficult to achieve anything meaningful, or have any fun, when all you are doing is moving forward.


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If you aint worked out how to turn while moving forward yet, you probably are better off giving pvp a miss.

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Which is exactly the arrogant im-better-than-you attitutue that also puts people off going into PvP zones.

It seems some PvPers don't want other people in PvP zones, they want to keep it as thier exclusive little leet-club.

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Not true for my part i want more in the zones what i dont want is people moaning in broadcast that its not fair that they have just been killed.

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Apologies, I din't wish to imply that this was an attiture shared by all, or indeed most, PvPers.

It is just a small minority that give the rest a bad name.

good point, and you also can't RP, which pretty much rules out RP-PvP.

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In most PvP zones, they have these things called walls, which you will eventually hit if you just press move forward.

Not to mention it is very difficult to achieve anything meaningful, or have any fun, when all you are doing is moving forward.


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If you aint worked out how to turn while moving forward yet, you probably are better off giving pvp a miss.

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Which is exactly the arrogant im-better-than-you attitutue that also puts people off going into PvP zones.

It seems some PvPers don't want other people in PvP zones, they want to keep it as thier exclusive little leet-club.

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all that means is if they realy want to pvp they will learn how to counter a stalker

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Sure, but most people, don't "really want to" PvP when they enter a zone. They want to try it and see if it is fun or not. If thier first experience is being clobbered by an invisible stalker, then the chances are, they are going to decide it's not fun, and depart, never to return.

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It limps along, but empathically does not fly, and there's nothing to suggest it'll fly in the future.


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A lame duck could still fly.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.


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What on earth are you on about, it requires you to use the move forward button.

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In most PvP zones, they have these things called walls, which you will eventually hit if you just press move forward.

Not to mention it is very difficult to achieve anything meaningful, or have any fun, when all you are doing is moving forward.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

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True but all that means is they will learn the hard way, everyone was a pvp newbie at some point you can only learn by taking part.

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See previous post concerning learning from unwinable situations. They just put people off, they don't induce learning.

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It's not an unwinnable situtaion, it just looks like an unwinnable situation, which has the same effect.

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Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

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Don't forget stacked perception bonuses and an ability to handle alpha strikes without caving.

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Oh yeah, there are lots of other ways to counter stalkers, some of which are even available to inexerienced players (e.g. Dull Pain), but they are not available to all powersets, unlike movement, which anyone can do.

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The irony is, stalkers are utter rubbish against hard core PvPers who know how to counter them.

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Thats not the case for all stalkers, not for mine anyway

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Ok, I agree I was exagerating, a well built PvP stalker in the hands of a skilled PvPer is still dangerous, but against experienced oposition it is far from the "I win" button that it is against the inexperienced.

Oh, you can dodge stalkers by moving, but it takes skill, practice, audio, and a degree of intuition. All things unavailable to newbie PvPers.

On stalkers:

Yes, they are very difficult for inexperienced PvPers to counter, and someone who hasn't played one in PvP has no way to know how difficult it was for them to land that 2 shot kill. This is true with a real life assassin to though. Weeks of planning, they have to slip past the guards, find a vantage point, wait for hours or days etc, but as far as the victim is concerened, its just a matter of one minute you are alive, then bang, you're dead, and there was nothing you could have done about it.


The irony is, stalkers are utter rubbish against hard core PvPers who know how to counter them.

Niether case is a recipe for fun.

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but of the PvP implementation

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Given that the hero ATs where not designed with PvP in mind, there was no way to implement PvP in a way that would be balanced, without completly changing everything that had already been done in the game.

there are only two win scenarios for balanced PvP:

1) Design it in from the start

2) Don't have any PvP

The rogue isles posters ive seen had a weatherbeaten effect (part of the billboard rather than the poster itself?).

On the one hand, it keeps the poster blended, but on the other, it spoils the immersion aspect of someone going round putting up new posters.