Omega_Chief
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Posts
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Joined
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Perhaps somthing to experiment with then, hash out a proposal with some Unionites, who knows what we might come up with, worth a shot if you're serious about the whole integration aspect.
Or who knows, get an EU trail account and have a nip over to see what it's like right from the source :P -
I might hazard a guess that it's because the majority of our RP takes place on the actual server, which makes it quite hard to integrate people into the Unionverse when they're not actually playing in most of the Unionverse.
If we had more forum RP it might help the case more, indeed I belive there are a few Unionites in some of your threads I belive. Though that being said I belive our intial attempts at merged threads just didn't seem to work out and wern't popular as I recall.
That isn't to say we're deliberatly trying to exclude non-Unionites, heck Devious took part in the latest Union thread! It's just we have threads once in a blue moon and even then they're related to events that happen in game, we're sorry it's just our RP style makes it hard for you to take part in without being on Union :< -
Hey I'm not doing all the work for you here, who knows what kind of epic defection you'll pull off, or where you'll be sent to die? maybe even Preatoria or the Shadowshard, resulting in an adventure in itself to get back to Primal Earth, leaving him an expert on other realities so he gets asigned to a hero group who works with them or somthing?
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Have him get sent on a mission by lod Recluse to another Reality, where he gets begged to save people by one of the civvies there but can't and then due to his guilt switches sides?
Alternativly have him be sent up to die for whatever reason, it happens after all, and then he decides he doesn't want to work for someone who's just going to throw his life away and so quits. -
Quote:Y'mean the Arena Match I perfectly accepted as Skies having lost IC? And my grumbling was more directed at how I as a Blaster had no hope of beating you as a Mastermind in PvP.Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
And Z, given that Omy whined about how unfair the game system was, and how it should of gone differently due to who Boundless is, when he used Boundless in an Arena match against Baron Eternity, I'd say my point was accurate.
But we found a nice OOC compromise! For you to fight without pets, and when I lost, I accepted my loss.
Infact you may recall the Baron using his victory to try and stir things up with Pious!
This kinda goes against what you're arguing.
((Edit: Grah hit post too soon, anyway post continues!))
Another thing to point out, is you keep using analogies and things that relate back to single player RPGs (Like Oblivion, Fallout) or Pen and Paper RPGs (Like Exalted or DnD) that really don't mesh well with an MMO RP enviroment.
This is because in a PnP enviroment you cna chat to your GM about your character concept, arrange setting things up so they all fit, like being Prince of so and so land or having a mystical family weapon of some kind. While a single player RPG doesn't leave you much room beyond a bunch of preselected choices to tell variants on the same story.
With an MMO we have the game mechnics like a Single Player RPG, yet our roleplaying is more like a PnP game, in that we want to explore stories other then the main, otherwise we all tell the same story and man would that get boring quickly. So for RP we play a little loose with the game mechnics, as they are not set in stone rules for how things must function from an RP point of view, as any GM of a PnP game will tell you sometimes you need to looses or tweak the rules sometimes or even replace certian things with house rules! -
Wha? Not at all, I took inspiration in terms of concept for a single character (Boundless Skies) from Exalted, but that's only in terms of how her magic works, she's nothing like an Exalted character!
And no, you seem to be totally misunderstanding the point I'm trying to get across.
Just... sheesh CB you've RP'd with me, you know I'm not that bad D: -
Of course in an RP enviroment you'd talk it through with the other person! Sheesh, why do you think I used two of my own characters there! Because I happen to know both thier strengths and weaknessess and what I'd say for each one, it saved time to bring forth an example!
And to be frank I resent the implications you're making in my direction.
But of course PvP is perfectly balanced! And those of us with not much time can of course grind up levels on hard to level builds as well as get the millions of inf to slot them up, because why it's just as easy as you said it is. -
Run Serpent Drummers arc and get back to me on how powerful the General is, I'll wait.
And so, what you're telling me is, if I have a character I enjoy playing, yet isn't IC at the power level of a lvel 50, I should just stop playing the enjoyable character because thier powerlevel has to directly corralate to thier security level.
Wow, I'll make sure my former Hellion Demon MM never goes above level 15 then, I'd sure hate to have people make unrasonable assumptions on power level there.
But seriously CB, Correlation is not Causation! Just because many powerful heroes have a high security rating does not mean the rating is so high because they're so powerful!
Otherwise I need to go put on a pirate hat to stop global warming. -
And what if I don't want my level 50's to be gods and goddessess huh?
Though if you're bringing up that level s related to power level, why I'd like to present exhibit A:
General Aarons
An old man with just a gun and his fists, yet a Security Level of the 40s (In the RWZ at least, which would be his most recent apperance). -
It is however not a measure of power, as we've established. It isntead appears to be a rating of how much trust the government puts in you(Such as having to be 35 to get to the Warzone and tha teh higher arcs invovle secrets and conspriacies) or how much of a threat they view you as.
And of course once again we come to the problem of that might not fit with what we want it to, and that security levels almsot never come up in RP.
I mean really CB, it's like you're arguing for arguings sake here. -
I am aware of IC teaming, I have done IC teaming, now this may be because a text medium makes it very hard to judge just what tone you're speaking in, but from what I'm reading it sounds a lot like condescension.
Now I'm not arguing the Well points here because, and this may come as a shock, I'm happy with the explinations we've reached thus far, esepcially the one where most of us are in agreement that he choice of if our character is effected by teh Well or not is our own and not some person pulling that we must be because we have x in game effect.
My post may have sounded a lot like a lot of false accusations there, and for that I apologise, but it's just you struck a nerve. For you see I interpeted what you said (Perhaps wrongly, for which I again apologise) as the ever annoying "But I can do x ingame, therefore I can say I'm doing/I've done it IC!". This is where all the things about things that happen in game that don't make any sesnse popped up, because I have a big long list of them that I break out whenever this topic comes up, but perhaps again this was not the intent and this is neither the place or the time to focus on that.
Now, let me try and make the point I was trying to make here, and yes this is trying to be an actual serious point here.
Lets take my lvl 47 Crabspider for a moment and pit her against my lvl twenty-somthing Tank, now in an OOC fight or from a game mechnics point of view the Tank here has no hope. However from an IC perspective those super strength punches could potentially cripple the Crabspider for months if not worse.
And if we put them on a team together, will the Tank fare worse? Of course, because they're only a lvl 20 tank! But if we're IC we can justify that as just the Tank taking all the hits meant for the Crabspider there (Which can lead to some amusing RP or even a discussion about why!) as opposed to the Crabspider thinking "Wow this Tank sucks". From the other point of view the Crabspdiers much higher damage output there wouldn't be interpreted as them being much more powerful or "Oh my word she's so strong, she must be an Incarnate" it could just be because while the Tank is taking hits, the Crabspdier is gunning down the badguys.
See niether character has to assume the other is stronger or weaker based of off OOC game mechnics there, which is what I'm trying to get across and having people assume things like that about my characters would really annoy me.
I hope this post clarified the point I was trying to make, and sorry once again that the other post was a bit of a non-sequiter. -
Just like if you happened to be OOC doing far more damage then you would in terms of concept it can also be ignored, there is a disconenct you have to acknowledeg here, which is what my post was trying to point out in a bit of a ranty way >.>
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In the part where he described the guy on your team having a concept build and so falling over a lot more often, it sure sounds like IC teaming which is taking the game literally to me!
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Quote:Right! Cut your post down to the points I'd like to argue against, see there seems to be a bit of a disconnect here between the way many people veiw this and the way you view this.Originally Posted by Ammon
But it is no different to seeing an 8 foot man standing at the bus stop and thinking to yourself "He's incredibly tall". Does it mean you have to tell him so? Not unless you have a real lack of impulse control. My characters noting that someone is abnormally powerful, even for a super-hero, when it becomes as readily apparent as seeing that an 8 foot chap is tall is simply a thing called Roleplay.
This is exactly the same straw-man argument as the first point above. This is not an either/or situation. This is about a character with as many powers and abilities as a level 50 super-hero can get suddenly getting more. Its about taking the possible, and then going past it.
A character with one rocket launcher is not an example of this. The character with three rocket launchers, a full auto assault rifle, a flamethrower, pistols, grenade launcher and a crate of 60 grenades, three crates of assorted rockets, who claims to be just a regular soldier is the example. You're noticing something beyond the possible (or not noticing if it is not apparent IC) just like noticing that the 8 ft guy is tall.
I'm actually certain that some RPers will continue to have concept builds such that even if Incarnate are much harder to notice as such in play. The ones with the 'less offensive powers' you suggest. Maybe they took the basic +End alpha slot enhancement on a build that wasn't very well slotted for endurance before. That would be harder to notice, especially if the reason the endurance wasn't well slotted before was because they'd been overslotting damage and losing most of the effect to ED.
That's like where some very gimped 'character concepts' builds are noticeably weaker than most heroes. My characters do notice when another is continually the first to fall, weaker than the sidekicks, and those characters will note to themselves "He's a bit weak for a Hero. Probably does okay against muggers, and thought he'd be fine on our quest to battle Rularu. Wish to hell we'd brought someone more capable.".
If they are using Warburg nukes IC then I'm sure they are also providing a great explanation for them. They will also have at most, what? Three shots? And all different types. They can call one big nuke damage attack down, and then its spent. Maybe they can also call down a buff nuke and a debuff nuke, but the damage one is done and dusted.
That's a lot different to calling on an Orbital station all of their own, time after time after time, endlessly if needs be. Calling down strike after strike after strike just minutes apart. That's someone who rather than having a Warburg Nuke could effectively out-gun all of Warburg! Maybe his orbital canon isn't doing as much damage as a single nuke, but he has an endless, ever replenishing supply.
Not noticing that a character you've teamed with for years suddenly is twice as accurate, can call on an orbital plasma cannon seemingly at will, fights Statesman as though sparring with a Troll minion, and can solo the entire Lady Grey task force mission without needing a single bit of support, healing, or rest ... that would be silly sounding to me.
Mainly that while IC teaming what you see on your screen is exactly what happens. Like all those non-bullet proof characters taking fullsides of Council minigun fire or rocket launchers to the face! (Hey by your logic my characters saw it happen therefore it happened by damn!).
Heck if you want to bring PvP into it (Though they're stupidly effective in PvE too) a small group of thugs is the most powerful force in the universe. Go fight a Thugs MM if you don't belive me.
Or heck there's all those thugs you fight you can punch with super strength, set on fire, freeze ina block of ice and wail on with spines/swords/claws and they'll be just fine! As you say yourself, our characters see this happen in game, therefore we msut treat it as actually happening!
Do you start to see why some people are having a bit of a problem with you arbitrarily deciding without thier concent that they're Incarantes simpley because you may have seen them use a certian power (Which they may have OOC!) or because you're judging them as too accurate or damaging? -
Just to provide a counterpoint to somthing Ammon said a few pags back (Why does this thing have to grow three pages when I'm unable to respond D
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You've said that if our characters start doing Incarnate level things they have to start explaining some external source or 'thier Well' right?
But what if our characters, dispite OOC having the Alpha slot, are not IC doing those things, or acting with that power level?
After all, that's what me in my own little side of this debate have been trying to get across. -
See, that's the point I was trying to get across since I first said somthing in this thread!
It's just talk came up like they had to be Incarantes regardless of what I wanted, and that didn't make me feel all the best about that whole issue
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Quote:While I fully agree with everything else you're saying here, this is the one part that niggles me and that I'm trying to object to here.Originally Posted by Shadowe
The important thing, to me, is what the individual character believes. If Joe Public S-Hero (L50 Tanker slotted with a Cardiac Alpha boost) thinks he's just extraordinarily fit, who can argue with him? Just because the game rules say that he cannot possibly be that fit unless he is an Incarnate, that does not mean that he understands/accepts/knows this.
Now lets assume I get a character to unlock said Alpha slot (Very unlikly given my play style), what if I don't want said character to be anything like an Incarnate? And whenver I RP with said character they're within teh powerlevel they've always been defined as being and as such are not incarnate level powerful? Do I OOC have to accept that "No wait actually because I went and OOC did this, and never refer to being like that IC I still have to accept that like it or not that my character is an Incarnate?" -
I was refering to her strength levels yes, being able to regen doesn't make her any less fragile! It just means she gets up again.
A fight vs say... Lord Recluse would go as follows:
Thebe: "Alright you giant spider bring i-" *Splat*
Recluse: "Pathetic"
Thebe: *Climbs up slowley* "Oookay that was a bi-" *Splat*
Rinse and repeat until bored.
Now she might say differntly IC, what with y'know the regen making her feel she's effectivly invincible, but in any IC or OOC fight if she's against someone she can't knock out in one or two hits, she's toast. -
Quote:And this is exactly my point. My most powerful character, Thebe, is little more then a super strong street hero! She doesn't have the same strength as others in the super strength leuge (Most noticabley States and Recluse who would wipe her so fast IC and OOC).Originally Posted by Rock_Powerfist
I think, after ponderous reflextion that for all my toons i will be treating Incarnate progression as i would a raising of the level cap, in other words just carrying on with the toons story in the same way as i have for normal leveling.
A number of my alts are played as street level heroes rather than the world saving sort, so there is no place for an IC incarnate event with out totally changing the characters nature.
The one character I have who would make sense to do somthing Incarnate realted to IC (Skies) just isn't at that power level, seeing how she just uses magic arrows and some charms/martial arts (Man I wish we had an MA secondary for blasters...) so yea, heck the in game power level of what a generic character is like at just lvl 50 is a bit beyond most of my characters!
As for powers that arn't in powersets, sure, I know what those are like such as Sue's mind reading which can't be in game (And there are many ways to defend from! Which kinda means she's as often in tehd ark as everyone else is :P) Or Skies spirit walks, which are just excuses to use certian AE maps or have certian parts of character development.
But yea, that's the level I work on IC, it's the level I always plan to work on IC, even if OOC I get an Alpha slot or whatever. I can perfectly udnerstand people from an OOC perspective wanting to go and try out the new stuff, nothing wrong with that, heck I also do that. My question was simpley why everyone felt the need to make it happen IC as well. -
Quote:It's just that all this incarnate stuff is rubbing me a bit the wrong way, it comes out and all of a sudden everyones characer are going on simultanious uests or whatever to gain power.Originally Posted by Cowman
Actually, from my experience, that breed of RPer is fairly common if not the majority.
Whats wrong with the IC power level we had before? I just don't get why everyones suddenly decided to make all thier characters that much more powerful... -
Well from an IC perspective nothings going to change in regards to my characters, they're as powerful (Or not) as I want them to be! I see no reason why I -have- to make those at 50 suddenly have to make a power leap for whatever reason.
But then I'm the strange breed of RPer who doesn't think OOC level should dictate the power of our characters.
Like my lvl 20 somthing scrapper who's only IC super power is turning invisible/phasing! Those lvl 1 hellions are a massive threat to her IC wise! -
Quote:See the thing is, if you want people to play in your plot you kinda need to give us details, so we know what characters we can and can not use for this plot. By not giving us these details of course we're going to jump to certian base assumptions.Originally Posted by Jaijot
In RP situation you described before, GM deliberately provokes reaction from a player.
In this thread I started, I asked two questions:
Anyone interested taking part in this kind of RP thread?
And should I prepare InGame NPC for InGame interaction?
I did not initiate speculation of how possible or impossible RP plot I described was. It was not a subject I expected, and I didn't initiate it. Looking back the thread I can see it was you who dragged the subject in there.
Next time, take responsibility of your own actions. Don't put blame onto somebody else.
Though this raises a very valid question, if your plot is not set in the US, then how were you going to pull off anything in game related to it anyway? Doesn't that kind of invalidate your latter question?
As to your real world political point, you'll notice the rest of us were refering to either the US or UK in our posts (Which is where my example came from!).
Now I'm sorry for not being able to keep up with the politics of a country who's language I can't even speak, but I have a hard enough time just keeping up with the politics of the english speaking world at times.
I'm adult enough to apologise about dragging and argument here, but I still feel the points raised by several people here are rather important, as anyone who's run a plot can tell you, you have to be sure it makes sense in the context of the world it's being run in and give the players enough details so they know if they want to join in and with what characters, heck in doing so many players can come to you with neat little sideplot ideas involving furthering thier own characters and plots at the same time!
And yes all of this should be in the collecting interest thread, as it's impossible to colelct interest without knowing what we're supposed to be interested in. -
Y'know it might have been usful to anyone who wanted to get involved to know that the plot wasn't taking place in the US, as I think nigh on all of our characters are based there, setting it elsewhere is quite a big important thing that you really should have mentioned before.
This is because it can change which characters people can use for it, that is of course if you were going to set it outside the US from the start.
You can't exactly have a go at people for making assumptions about basic details you've neglected to mention, here's an example.
"Alright you're in a house, it's quite stuffy and warm"
"Yikes in that case I open a window"
"Aaaand now you're dead due to explosive decompression ebcause you were in a house on the moon" -
Quote:Only it's not only one person, most of the people who have responded to this thread have pointed out what they belive are issues with it, and most of the are indeed the same issue.Originally Posted by Jaijot
I am not willing to change and start everything from scratch just becouse one single person desires something completely different than I have prepared.
Now me, it's not about what I want, it's about making interesting RP that fits within the CoX world and we can all reasonable assume would happen.
What you're proposing kinda goes beyond the level we have players have a right to, if it were Paragon City politions or maybe Rhode Island that'd be just about acceptable, but you're hinting at much higher levels which veers off into changing the setting in a way we can't actually do.
To explain via analogy what if I wanted to run a plot where we explore the consiquences of killing every Rikti in the Warzone? I hope you can see why that'd be a little beyond our scope here.
Sure we can't say for sure what would happen, but we can have a pretty good idea, you might not be aware but things like potential science budget cuts or even proposed raises in tution fees have caused mass protests and so on in the real world recently, and thats over just money, people care a lot more about children then they do money. -
Quote:Only in every peice of Lore we have exactly what Mech and I are saying has happened, just look at the Might for Right act! Or anything involving Malta.Originally Posted by Jaijot
I have strong reasons to believe you are wrong.
It is possible for powerful politicians to pull this kind of stunt.
You do have to remember Primal Earth is not identical to the Real World.