OdiousClan

Works great - until you zone. Soon as you zone the arms come back.

At least that was my experience trying your method this morning...

Thoughts?

Anyone else noticing this? Periodically, especially localized (really bad around trains, etc), persistent rubberbanding. Will take a minute or so sometimes to "fix itself."

I've *only* noticed this since Thursday. Well, in its current very persistent form. It's not always, but once or twice per mission, and periodically trying to fly across city zones, it's been happening quite a bit this weekend.

Nothing has changed with my hardware. We run 3x computers, 3x accounts, didn't have this problem except really this weekend. Also, no lag evident on my internet connection, or with other games (i.e. FPS, LOTRO, etc).

Anyone?

Your strategy may well depend on your primary/secondary combination. Or, maybe that's not really necessary for me to state The "unshakable agro" has always annoyed me, but then, it's just something to work around - it is what it is.

I will default to BG if I have to, but I like to at least TRY to get some focused damage going first, before I have to "turtle up."

I've had great luck primarily with /traps and /dark. Both work wonderfully, /traps the best, for mucking up the boss's pathing or simply giving yourself a little time. Basically, just find a corner you can target around but can use to deny LOS to the boss (and LB entourage). Drop caltrops or tar patch, as applicable, to slow the responders. However, before you drop the GTAOE, put your pets on "goto agro" and place them where you know the ambush is coming from, so they have to walk THROUGH your pets INTO your slow patch. That'll often give me enough time to create some sort of effect to shape the battle.

Different banks (and ambush locations, but I worry *the most* about the actual boss, especially if it's a high damage level 50+ boss) have different maps with different opportunities. Ideally, I like to be around a "U" shaped corner, which often will make the boss stop, think, and get "confused" on the GTAOE patch. Every second he hesitates is another chance to kill a LB or put more damage/effect on the boss.

Necro/ is good thanks to the minor -tohit most of their attacks apply, and lich's holds. Bots/ of course is great because of the KB, but of course some bosses are quite resistant to the KB effect. My Ninja/ is ... OK. At least they put out damage the fastest, but since I run Ninja/FF there's no slow function. I don't find a great deal of synergy with repulsion and force bubble and melee pets, so I don't usually run them. Rather, if I need to tactically retreat to another corner, I'll force bolt the boss or LB off me, and focus pet fire on that thing while I back off. If I have to I'll turtle up in BG, and if I REALLY have to I'll PFF up... but I'll usually put the pets in agro mode prior, not BG since it can be a bit wonky IME when I'm PFF'd. If necessary I'll use detention field to snag the random LB that gets through, but I am more annoyed than enthused by that power.

My necro/ is /dark, so in these engagements I have pretty good luck - tar patch usually slows the creeps down enough that fluffy and lich can hold/slow most of them such that not many make it through. And I can at least try to save myself with twilight grasp if someone makes it far enough to smack me.

Often if I can slow the boss enough I'll focus fire deliberately on the LB, especially the sneaky ones that can do the most quick damage, and then I'll push on to the boss.

I honestly have found it hit or miss to use a big debuff like darkest night. First, in order to apply it I'd really have to be in BG mode, and I'm still vulnerable to the boss's first attack. I prefer to try to stay out of BG unless I need it, so I really don't start bank boss fights with it. I'll use it instead in regular doors. But, starting in BG and applying darkest night (or the various equivalent debuffs in /poison, /thermal etc) is a perfectly good strategy - I just find it to be slower and bit more random. YMMV of course.

I don't have much experience with /thermal... I have run it into the low 20s, no more. It would seem you would simply have to spend a lot more time in /bg, using your heals to keep pets alive as damage was shared, and hoping warmth would keep you alive. Heat exhaustion would seem to be the power of choice for slowing down incoming damage? Again, my gut feeling here is that BG is probably going to be the mode of choice for most of the fights in a bank.

/Storm is kind of painfully easy, truth be told. I have an "easy-mode" bots/storm... I hate the look of hurricane, but will use it specifically (and generally only) for banks. I'll just throw on 'cane, stand right around a corner with the pets out in agro mode, so the boss'll have to run through the pets into 'cane. When he's just approaching pets I'll drop freezing rain. Every once in a while I'll get unlucky and get one-shotted but it's pretty rare.

I did run a couple of mercs/ builds up into the high 20s, low 30s... specifically /dark and /FF, and found them to be hands-down the poorest at handling banks. Perhaps at 50 the set starts to shine, but they really didn't have the tools, either in terms of high damage output or interesting effects, that other sets have. So, I put those on the shelf, at least for cranking the difficulty up on banks.

Anyhow, best of luck, if you find any other interesting ways to cope with banks, post. I'd sure be interested

Yes, precisely. When I summon them they sometimes run up, then dash right back off again.

I almost only ever play solo. This happens ALL the time to me... don't know if team size has anything to do with it at all.

Currently I'm working on a Ninja/FF. Not sure if that has anything to do with the periodicity.

As to porting, what happens is they keep going in and out of the doors. They follow me through the doors, immediately run back through, then I'll see them running around like idiots... it's actually somewhat funny with elevators. They'll run in and out of them, then dash off who knows where.

I thought maybe it was just graphical artifacts, but it's not - they're really not there. I can tell because when one or two come back, they'll be in PBAE buffs like dispersion bubble, but the other ones are NOT. They're off... somewhere.

Like I said it's not game-breaking (I just have to make sure I deal with ambushes BEFORE I go in the bank door), it's just a major annoyance. It's weird.

This is not a new issue, but if anything it seems to have gotten worse over time. It's been written about before, but I'm just back after a bit of a break and it's happening to me a LOT now.

About half the time I go through an elevator or into a bank door, my pets just run off. Sort of like when they run back to kill a Freak that res'd... but this is for no apparent reason.

The problem is it's extremely inconvenient in regular missions, and downright problematic in banks, especially if you're catching the ambush just inside the bank door. Nothing like trying to dismiss and resummon all your pets with half a dozen or more Longbow smacking you around.

I've tried waiting - after 5 or so minutes SOME of the pets will come back. Sometimes the missing pets will be standing by the door after a few minutes, inert and non-responsive. Sometimes they just won't come back at all, but I'll see them off in the distance running around (the green box off through the walls when you select them).

I've experimented with different modes - i.e. put the in "stay/passive" before I go in the door, put them in BG, put them in "follow/passive" etc. Nothing seems to have any discernible effect - when they want to poof, they just poof.

Has anyone found a work-around? I play mostly mastermind alts, and as such this is near-and-dear to me :/ I'd really like to find out the "magic combo" that gets the dolts through doors reliably.

Again, elevators and bank doors. That's where it happens. Very often. Generally, only dismissing all and resummoning (and rebuffing) all will reset them.

Of course I've reported it it - but we know how long it takes to find, let along fix, such wonky behavior.

And here I was just expressing my opinion, vis-a-vis the discussion points in the post. Sure didn't mean to give you any "more work." Sorry 'bout that.

I'm confused by your comparisons: are you comparing an SR Scrapper with baseline powers to a Bane running pools? Might as well compare a baseline Crab to a fully IO'd Bane, otherwise we're not talking about apples and apples. Clearly anyone can take extra powers from pools and add bonuses from IO sets.

For a more apples and apples comparison, a "normal IO" SR build is around 30% defense. Bane is closer to 15% except for ranged.

But it doesn't really matter: my point was the streaky math thing. Since the Bane relies almost exclusively on defense, he is very vulnerable to both defense debuffs and "lucky hits." Resistance builds could be considered less reliant on "luck" to carry the day. you can have 40% defense, and still get hit really, really hard with the streakbreaker or just a bad roll.

I can, and do, play a Bane and an SR built. It's just not my style, because I don't like the "miss-miss-miss-dead" chain. It happens; some people did that level of adrenaline, some don't. I never said it was crap, or that it was broken, only that for me I found it odd that Crab seemed to do the same things better in some circumstances, and that I was grasping for what Bane did that Crab couldn't.

My Bane as built is running at just shy of 30% ranged defense, and around 16% defense to the rest. That's 45 IOs, no sets to speak of, won't until 50. That's w/o Cloaking Device running (although I do run it all the time) - obviously there's still a bit of defense even suppressed.

I thought I was crystal clear in my ramblings above: with the Crab, I don't even need to use my self heal, let alone any pills to kill a bank boss. With the Bane, I almost always have to use Aid Self against bank bosses - almost nothing else ever touches me because I kill it so fast. And frequently I have to use a green pill or two as well. All attacks are 3-slotted for damage, and all but Bash are 6-slotted overall. All defense and resist powers (except Wolf Spider Armor) are 3-slotted for defense/resist as appropriate. So, my defenses are mature, as is my attack chain. I am not running maneuvers or CJ.

When a bank boss at 5 difficulty level connects with me a second time (which it virtually always does - this is not "I tried it once" this is 30+ levels of running primarily paper/bank missions), typically that takes me down to blinky, and I have to react. I am absolutely at a loss as to how I could change that fact - until I am very, very heavily invested in IO sets. Pets can not pull bank boss agro off.

I already touched on "tactics" a bit: sneak in, hit hard (built-up and surveilled Shatter), get boss flopping with KD if possible, if necessary run off around a corner and use Aid Self. But I've not infrequently been dropped in a heartbeat by bosses like Cacophony who debuff and then do that awful tier 9.

I am absolutely perplexed as to how, with something on the order of 15-20% melee defense, you're managing not to get hit most of the time bu grape bosses. 20% is respectable defense... until you're being hit by a purple bank boss or some hard hitters like grape warwolves.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way questioning whether or not you did these things. All I'm saying is that with around 20% defense I get hit frequently enough in these conditions to need to heal myself in combat. I have no idea why our play experiences are so different with basically the same AT with the same basic levels of defense.

Again, my build has mature attack chain (all single target mace powers + crowd control + AS, all fully slotted except as noted above), and a mature defense with all Bane powers taken and slotted, except for WSA, which I DO have, but which only has one slot. Adding CJ and Maneuvers did not change this on test - I still get same result - purple bank bosses hit too routinely and too hard for me to ignore and just press a kill, unless I'm willing to flip the coin and die every other or third time if I happen to whiff for some reason on a killing shot.

So, enlighten me! What "things" do I need to work on? Or are you just naturally lucky with your combat rolls?


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Wow guess my work is never done. Right now you have pretty much said you could not play with a /SR scrapper. Not trying to question your tactics or skill, but maybe you should look at your powers and slotting with your Bane. With my Bane I was soloing even level EB's at 24 and soloing +2 and +3 EBs at 32 without insperations or IOs for that matter (didn't IO til 40). So if you are having trouble robbing a bank at 40 you should definitely look into your powers and slotting because at that level you shouldn't even need tactics

SR Scrapper
Total of 19.49 unenhaced total powers 6

Bane Spider
TT:M 10%
Suppressed 3.75%
Combat Jumping 2.5%
Manuvers 3.5%

Total 19.75% 4 powers. Note did not include CT as it only does range.

Overall the only thing that SR scrappers have is scaling resists and def debuff (I wouldn't mind this being added to Banes). But Banes get resists and an Hp buff, pets, and placate, items which a SR scrapper does not have. Not trying to say with power pools that even SR scrappers have access to a Bane is better, I was just showing how with a little bit it can go a long way. So I am not saying that you are a bad player I would just say you need to look at a couple of things in your toon.

Note: Yes a SR scrapper can get CJ and Manuvers but it takes them 6 powers already to get what a Bane can get with 4.

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I have a 50 Crab and a 44 Bane. I wish I had a 50 Bane, because I dig the Bane - it's so COOL. However, it's not as fun to play because I hate, HATE relying on stupid Aid Self or green pills. The fun, for me, is figuring out how to work all of my builds so I can handle bank bosses at difficulty level 5.

The big difference is two-fold, IMHO.

First, Crab can easily - easily - immobilize virtually anything, and stand back and pick it apart. Sure, it's a bit slower than Bane but not in my experience as painful as some would suggest. Couple great ranged defense, great resists, and a very solid ranged attack chain, and you have lots of dead bank bosses. I can't remember the last time stupid Cacophony got the best of my Crab.

Second, I get the feeling some folks are really downplaying resistance. My first 50 was a tank some years back, Invuln... and then I played a Regen scrapper. Whoa! Man, I missed those resists. I am running around on the Crab with very respectable defenses AND solid resists. Oh, and the self heal/buff.

Since about 40 the Crab had absolutely no problem whatsoever running bank missions at 5. I can barely do it with the Bane now, almost regardless of tactics. Oh, if I pop purple pills, and chomp green skittles I can kill the bosses no problem! That's not my point - in a pure comparison, Crab has no problem treading where Bane isn't the best (for me). To make a skittle comparison, eat a couple of reds with the Crab and he'll kill really fast like the Bane.

From a "L2P" perspective (before someone drops that on poor, squishy me), one thing I've played around with and find somewhat tedious is to capitalize on KD as a soft control mechanism to augment defense. To that end, I have Air Superiority in my main attack chain. So, start with Surveillance, hidden strike with Shatter, then follow up with pulverize, then Crowd Control, Air Superiority, back to Shatter, etc. That's great - except the one or two hits that make it through ANYWAY tend to take me to blinky red because of my low resists. I'm running Tough, but that only helps so much. When I'm 50 if I invest 8 jillion inf, I can get sort of decent resists, but nothing near what I could get for same investment on Crab.

Honestly it just feels like Bane faces the same problem any AT that relies largely on streaky math faces: the occasional big hits that get through just hurt really bad. SR plays the same way: you're an untouchable phantom of death and then you're faceplanted, and there's not a lot you can do about it.

While I would LIKE to have a self-heal of some sort (just because I don't like Aid Self for concept or animation - it's absolutely trivial to reliably cast it in combat with Bane), and I would LIKE to have some resists, I think the main thing I would actually ASK for would simply be very solid Def Debuff Resist.

Of course, the big thing Banes lack as compared to other similar defense ATs is any sort of Tier 9 like Elude. I'd happily accept the crash to push through a tough battle, and it seems well in keeping with the similar concept of the Crab "shooting up" when the going gets rough - some sort of "stims." If I could wish for one thing for my birthday (other than that pony I never got?) it would probably be something like MoG or Elude. The pets are great, and I have 'em: but they won't pull Bank Boss agro. Ever. Of course, they might manage to immob the boss, but I still have to close to kill him.

Oddly, on paper a ranged Bane should do very well in terms of efficiency over time. However, I tried it a few times on test and it was tedious and boring... and misses all the frenetic FUN of being a Bane and clubbing things to death. Er, defeat.

So my take, for what it's worth: in my situation, it's very, very hard for me to love my Bane, because the Crab does the same things at a higher difficulty level effortlessly. That's what I find hard to figure out. I get that not everything is created equal, I just haven't really yet encountered anything that my Bane can do that my Crab can't.

As to some sentiment that resists aren't that great against heavy hitters: far as I've always understood it's basically a percentage thing. If you hit me for 100, and I have 50% resist, I take 50. If you hit me for 1000 and I have 50% resist, I take 500. Over time, I think the theory is that it evens out - if a Bane is only hit 1 time in 10 for 1000, and a Crab is hit 5 times in 10 for 200, it'll be the same. However, it's clearly not that simple. And, of course, with a high-level Crab it's more like "gets hit 1 time in 10 for 200." Clearly that's not real math based on any data delving, it's just a quick illustration. So, I'd rather have BOTH in healthy measure if I can, to be honest.

One thing I'll honestly admit: my Bane is much more "blue efficient" than my Crab. Having said that, I don't really care... with the Crab all it means is I can't just spam all my attacks all day long because I'm running 42 toggles. With Bane I don't need to run all those toggles, so I have endurance to spare - as long as I survive. And to be fair I typically survive, I just hate having to run away. Personal preference! I know, I want my cake... I want to not have to run, but I want to not have to rely on skittle. Of course, I believe I can reasonably expect that outcome, since I already HAVE it with the Crab.

Bane gets props for some of the coolest looking anims EVER though!!! Shatter all the way.

Cheers...

Perfect, many thanks. Somehow I was overlooking that... I thought it had something to do with proximity text (i.e. when you hear them talk).

Presume I have a boss named "Bullyboy," and an object called "Widget." In order to complete the mission, the player must defeat Bullyboy, and find Widget.

Currently, the compass text seems to always say something like:

Search Warehouse
Bullyboy, Widget

I'd really rather I could make it say:

Search Warehouse
Defeat Bullyboy, Find Widget

But, I can't seem to alter the subtext no matter what text settings I change.

Clearly, I could rename the boss "Defeat Bullyboy" but then it would look silly when you found him

Thanks...