November

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Right now a lot of posts have talked about the high Prestige cost of Base items - and that they're bringing in a ton of Salvage but can't really do anything about it.

Bases, as they currently stand, really focus on mid and large sized groups earning Prestige - so the complaints have a good point. We're trying to work something out so that a smaller group can get something useful quickly - and also put Salvage to use! Can't promise a timeline, but we are working on it.

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Right now - I'd appreciate it if ANY Sized SG could have something useful to show for their efforts.

Jack... you know I love ya (in a purely manly way) - but this whole SG Base Construction issue has finally tripped my buttons. I'll support you and your decisions - because I love the game. But as one of the leaders of a very large family of SG's - so far bases have been a waste of our time, effort and energy - and a dismal failure.

There is not ONE device currently which we've purchased with our hard won prestige that justifies the cost of them - not ONE.

We have teleporters - which only go to hazard zones and tend to often drop us in mid air, causing damage to our lower level toons and sometimes ... dropping us into nests of villians. How exactly would you classify that Jack? As a "Useful" item? Sure - it works sometimes ... and sometimes ... it'll get you killed. That's useful.

Reclaimators - these - I used to like a little. Sure - initially they only give you 25% of the health of a hospital - but it was nice they'd drop you at the door of the mission you died. This is no longer the case seemingly - so - what's the point? If I don't save on the run time to get to the mission - I may as well just go to the hospital. --- Oh -- but you point out in many hazard zones there are no hospitals! -- Yes --- but I point out --- making us run allll the way through a hot zone to get back to the mission with 25% of our health... isn't "Useful".

SG Mission Computer - ahem... call me when it actually DOES something.

Let's see... what other things do bases do that are useful? Oh... right - we can build things in the workshop ... things Which Don't Work And Cost More Money Than A Gold Plated Out House And Are Almost As Useful!!

Listen - you want to tell me there's useful stuff in the base?

Make it actually Useful to my SG. Make it offer some benefit they do not get from just doing it the same old way. Otherwise -- do not use the word "Useful" in conjunction with bases around me.

It just runs up my blood pressure when I think of how many hours I've asked people to push for this item or that - only to tell them "Hey... umm... uh... it doesn't really work so hot..." after we get it installed.

Like I said Jack - love ya, love the game - but just like you I have people I have to answer to in this game. You're putting me in a bad spot... make me proud an tell me there's actually stuff going into bases that everyone can afford - that actually has some merit other than a "pretty" bit of eye candy that cost a fortune.

Now... please tell me there's actually going to be some kind of actually USEFUL features to these bases??? And please do not tell me PvP it's yet another PvP feature. My Reclaimator only heals to 25% and my blood pressure won't hold if you do.

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Is it just me or did the Ego in this place just double???

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Is this the part where I respond with something witty like "Yes, since you arrived?" to start a silly flame war?

Look, this forum is about a video game. Nothing about a video game is ever going to rate as a truly meaningful issue. In the end it's just a video game. That said, a forum discussing unimportant issues can still yield insight into important ones. And I've seen a lot of things on this forum that makes me very concerned about how impatient and entitled our society has become. Does that mean I'm exempt from that category, not necessarily, but I am at least conscious of the issue so I can watch myself and try to ensure I don't end up falling into the same category. I think society would be better off if everyone did the same but I have no right to expect it of others, only myself.

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As you will note - I did in fact edit and apologise for that comment being unfair.

As for societies issues - that's between you and society. As for this just being a 'video game' - true. But it's one that I and others such as yourself pay for not just for the initial copy but for the on going maintenance of. As such, we have a right to expect certain things in return for our money - - just as in the game we have a right to expect certain things in exchange for the level of effort we exert to achieve a goal.

At this point - I would say the costs of SG bases make them only marginally more successful than the Arenas which seem to be only useful as an extra place to buy Insps these days.

If we are impatient - it is because we feel as if the level of effort we've performed thus far should provide us with certain levels of satisfaction from the product which are not being met. That's a basic law of consumerism - that the customer dictates the direction of the product based on their input.

Your model of thinking is - we just need to try the product more. Okay - fair enough. But since I'm the one having to put forth the effort - and I'm the one having to test it out - yeah, I expect something better than what we've seen so far.

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The lack of patience shown by the player base concerns me...

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Is it just me or did the Ego in this place just double???

- Okay - that was unfair. But the "impatience" issue is really a subset of the over all question. Why is it discouraging?

Well for one thing it requires a pretty monumental effort for very little return. And yes - regardless of the size of your SG the return thus far has been minimal.

Let's look at the items from the CoH perspective -
SG Mission Computer - everyone thought this would be cool. A possible answer for the lack of end game content. It A) Was bugged from the day they sent it out the door. B) Has no missions for anyone in CoH (so why make it an option at this point for us???). C) Please tell us if the item won't do us any good BEFORE we get our hopes up.

Reclaimators - One of the few Items I do like we've built. But even still - at first they were disapearing from the base without notice. Our SG spent over 60k on them until we got a decent response on it. Now they appear to be one of the few items that works - but frankly at 25% health, no end - and the only way to upgrade them was via the Healing Badges which were bugged, and even then we're talking some massive healing action. They are at best - a margninal success.

Teleporters - another useful item - but hey, even though you get 7 zones to choose from only 3 are actually useful to anyone... and I'm being generous when I include Striga as useful since you zone in at Moonfire which is a damn long way. You have Perez, Crey's Folley and Striga - the rest will probably seldom if ever be used. Again - marginal functionality.

Workshops - Hey we can build our own stuff!! Hey.... it costs us money when we do and they're only slightly better than off the shelf. Not a particularly good bargain there. I personally have issues with having to pay really outrageous prices for something I make with my own salvage. That grates on me.

Make me do TF's or something hard so that when I get the stuff -- I have to bust my butt to get it - but don't charge me for it after I've done all the work. It's insulting.

In essence - everything else will take so long - require such a level of sacrifice and for what? The more than likely probability that the quality of the experience will be the same as what we've come to expect? Broken, expensive trinkets??

Don't blame the player base for being impatient. Blame the dev team for releasing this without thinking it through - planning it sufficiently and testing it thoroughly.

The players had no part in this.

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The Mega Monitor is an overpriced control aux item. I think it's craftable at the Advanced table, but I can't remember for sure.

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Yes... and for a MERE 1.5 million I think it was when we crafted ours ... you can actually install it.

Not going to go into the insane logic behind that. It just raises my blood pressure.

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Is there a way to get a list of SG mates like you can for your friends list?

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And like a previous Poster Here - anyone know anything about the /sgstats command ???

I think someone told me once you had to be the leader of the SG to invoke it. Any truth to this rumor?

Deleted... saw my answer was as goofy as the one it was parodying and not half as well written.

--- move along -- nothing to see here -----

Well I've seen companies that made you pay for the stuff that CoH is giving away - namely the updates.

An old axiom of business is never - EVER - give anything away for free. Not because you should be greedy, but because customers frequently are. Once they get one freebie - they want another and another.

Then the day comes when you've cut your costs and can't afford it anymore and they scream about how unfair it is that they have to pay for what they got for free once.

CoV is a seperate game. It's played in a seperate map - and there is limited connectivity between it and CoH from what I can see. Frankly, from what I understand of the AT classes in CoV - PvP with heroes would be very ego damaging for them.

The Tanks in CoV are more like what got nerfed in I5 - they have damage AND can take the hits. The Controllers - or Dominators - have both Controll and Damage. The Blasters - have the opposite of Defiance, the more damage they do the more powerful they get. Or so the last interview I read on the subject said.

So ... I don't think you can compare the two as easily as many of these people are doing. An equal level Hero vs. Villian match? I'm putting my money on the villian. Because of this - doubt very many people are going to go PvP and interact between the games like people seem to think.

Okay ... am I the ONLY one who sees an issue with the fact that whether this is an expansion or whatever you want to call it -- it represents THOUSANDS of man hours of work to have pulled this off. And if you want *more* of it - aka - expansions and tweaks (nerfs) and all that goes with it...

That means more man hours. Now there is a reason why they call them "man hours". Because men=women=people WORK those hours so you can play. Believe it or not - they actually want to be paid for those hours they put in so we can all gather here and p*** and moan about their efforts.

Bottom Line - you want the game? It cost money to make it. They can't give it away for free even if they wanted to.

I don't think any of the people complaining here about the costs of this game have any idea how CHEAP it really is compared to the cost of developers, servers, code, software tools, marketing and so on.

If they're making a profit - it's not a big one. Look at the stock. It's not screaming up the ladder. You want this game to stick around? Quit whining and pay for it.

My 2 cents... take'em - leave'em - whatever you want.

Let me get this straight...

You cut a deal with the retailers ... and allow each of them to have a specific "add-on" for pre-orders, which was
A) Gender Specific
and...
B) Not even all that cool?

Frankly - I pre-ordered for the game so could not care lick one about the helmet. It's actually pretty lame as most helmets suck - the last thing I want in my customizable toon is something that'll make them look like everyone else... but Jeezus Jerrry Lewis ... what MORON thought up this PR move?

Could you possibly alienate more people with this "cool give-away"??

I can see making a deal with the retailers so each has their own different add on. But frankly - I'd have rather had some kind of cool Aura instead of the helmet I can only use on Male toons.

Sheesh ... go find your guy in Marketing and slap him. He's an idiot.

Just posted this over in another forum in answer to similar comments ... but the guy at EB where I paid full for pre-order told me to wait for a call when they come in, and he had no clue when that would be - or even if I'd get a box with Pre-Order.

So... buyer experiences may vary. I for one - will not be purchasing through EB again.

Durring my last respec I had a choice to make - due to my SG's requirements - I had to have Recall Friend, so that sucked up one of my Power Pools. Due to my end needs (I'm an MC/Force Fields) - I had to have Health Pool ... obviously, I had to have Hasten, which left me with a choice... Stealth, which I've relied on since I could get it... or Flight, which themewise fit my toon.

As a result from 35 on ... I've had to learn to live without stealth - which when it comes to Soloing ... was difficult but not impossible. In fact, I'd say I've become a far better controller because I don't have stealth.

I disagree with the changes to stealth - but by the same token, I don't see them as the end of the world. As someone who's learned to live without it completely there's a lot of mistaken impressions IMHO as to the degree it's really necessary that you have it in battle during attacks.

Like I said, I don't agree with the Stealth nerf, and I'm frankly not sure what the necessity of it was or why it was even determined it was needed. But I also don't think it's the worst thing in the world.

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It was only 2 bosses. And no, even 3 bosses aren't and never have been tough for a level 50 TANKER. Remember, we're talking about a tanker here, not a squishy.

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You know ... if I could clip off that part of the posting and keep the rest of it - I'd agree with you 100%. But something about that just... Blew off any chances of supporting your view.

That paragraph - right there - is EXACTLY why this nerf is hitting ALL of us.

It's the fact that you assume that the rest of us - should have to scale to YOUR standards. We can't adjust the Tanks - after all, they are the center of the CoH universe?

What - there's other AT's out there? Pffttt... who cares? We're tanks - do you have any idea how many times I've heard from tanks when we were trying to put together a team ... "I can SOLO this mission, we don't need a healer for it - I can take the damage. ", "We don't need a controller - heheheh - I can keep'em aggro'd and locked on me ... ", "Oh, we might want a blaster or a scrapper for damage, It's not really necessary, but it'll go faster."

And anyone who says they haven't heard that or soemthing akin to it while putting together teams, is a liar.

Now, I can understand the desire to keep ones superiority - and skills and abilities. I feel for you - I do. But you were NOT the only AT affected by these changes. You are however acting like you are. It's your arrogance - that just shines a light on the whole "Tanks are not over balanced when you consider what we do..." argument.

It's not about what YOU do - it's about what we ALL of us do. We've spent a year learning to base everything on the super build - or the tank - to such an extent that it's the one AT that people think they can't do without.

This game was never meant to have one build that was not replaceable in a team. It was never meant to have one build that could out-solo, out-team, out whatever - everyone. If you thought it was - then you never read the manual and I'm sorry.

The purpose of an MMO - is that we ALL have a stake in the game and we ALL have a reason to be here.

Like I said, I feel for you - and the fact it's taken them this bloody long to do something about this, allowed us to get attached to a way of play and toons we've created - and then drop this bomb is cruel.

But was it necessary? I guess it was.

>> And my most sincere apologies for going off topic like this -

Wish States' Bro well - and a speedy and safe return. You should never apologise for putting family above a game or a job.

Ooops ... sorry already posted ... can't respond any more. Dang it.

Lvl 11 Fire / Fire Blaster
Tested in Sky against Lvl 10-12 both in Mission and Street use - Mission Setting: Rugged

Results... Defiance all but worthless. By the time it was actually making a difference I was so close to dead all it did was get in one good shot before I dropped.

Lvl 12 AR / Fire Blaster
Tested in Steel against Lvl 10-12 both in Mission and Street use. Mission Setting: Rugged.

Results... Same results. This time not so many deaths as this toon has Leadership and the Added Defense kept me alive much longer as limited as it is. Defiance? Due to adding Leadership pool, the toon was able to stay in the orange much longer and accumulated more Defiance. It's effects were better - but in each case the end result was the same - I merely hurt them more before I died.


Went back in ... and tried the missions again - this time ignoring if Defiance was available and playing as normal.

I did watch to see how often my Defiance meter kicked in... and in order to play as I normally would, defiance would not kick in. It's not that I don't get into the 40% level - I was in Yellow/Orange around 20% of my play ... the meter barely budged. When it did - the effect was not even as if I'd popped a Rage or the difference between my toggled Assault On/Off.

I'm sure the point here is for us to play normally and on the rare occasion that it kicks in - it's worth it. But from what I could tell - and btw - several times I died even before it could kick in - it's just a cool concept that provides nothing more than the 14 cup holders in a vehicle with seats for only 6 people ... it's nice but has no function.

Two Notes:

1) With the Defense Nerf I won't say I'm squishier ... because I'm flat out liquid. I had to play like a paranoid squirell trying to find a safe tree to hide in constantly in Steel and Sky. Not saying it didn't make it more interesting - but I suspect that living in perpetual fear and hiding out was not the games original intent for heroes.

2) Defiance - as a concept is kind of cool ... in actual use - it's a blow out. Has no real purpose aside from what was mentioned above... my attacks did get more powerful 1-3 shots before I died. I doubt that will impress anyone.

3) In the entire time I was playing - with both blasters I had several people come up to me while my toon(s) were in the yellow and red. Never once did any of the healers (yeah I checked) - offer a complimentary heal like I'm used to.

They never asked, they never commented, they just stood by and watch me die.

Bottom line... I am now in need of a big sign that says, "HELP!!! I DON'T WANT TO BE DEFIANT!!". This is going to really handicap Blasters, it's a seriously bad idea and should be scrapped in it's current form.

If it's adjusted to help us more - all it's going to do is make people angry we're over powered. A possible solution has been presented to increase our ACC and END, although instead of END I'd rather have my defense boosted.

Over all, I'd rather have none of these changes and be allowed to proceed with things as they were. I dealt more than enough damage before, and had my defense at a reasonable level.

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Thus the solution for now is to PL until you can solo, then solo whenever possible. Personally I no longer do AV missions since I can't solo them. This apparenlty makes the devs happy.

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Umm... so my solution is to not play the game but let someone else PL me so I can miss all the lvls and content that I'm paying $15 a month for??

rrrRRRRRrrrrrriiiiggghhhhhttt....

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How can you say a support AT is being "penalized" for not doing damage? You ain't supporting you team much if you are back 300 feet munching on Cheetos.

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I dunno... other day I'm on a mish and it's for a buddy who needs a controller to help handle mobs that are wiping out his entire team of 7 repeatedly. I get there and I'm sleeping, Holding, Terror and Mass Confusing everything in sight due to the number of villian groups all tightly packed.

Even with terror I do minimal damage to mass groups - I died like 3-4 times just trying to be everywhere at once. Granted they were playing like idiots and told them all so - but for my efforts to get them through the mish and complete it ... I got tons more debt than I ever recieved in XP.

I was in no way shape or form "munching on cheetos" - and my view is that thanks to the changes now out there I usually make more points soloing than I do with groups.

Here's why:

1) You can't garrantee that on your server there are people in your range who can team with you when you're playing. So you take the teams you get offered as an MC, not the ones you want to be on.

2) The lvl spread will force you to exempt or SK someone - usually outside your range. One of you - will not get the pts you deserve if you play your hardest.

3) It really hasn't stopped power leveling in the least - I still see swarms of lower levels in PI, and the Ferry from Talos to PI is still packed with even level 1s standing around going "Hey buddy can you spare a level???".

They may be happy with the changes - but what this has done to teaming is damage that will continue for a long time. My SG is having serious issues because the new people we bring in ... can't play with the more experienced ones, can't learn squat from them - without being penalized.

I'm sorry the answer was to put a level barrier on the upper zones ... not mess with the XP system. It would have been easier to implement and not affected so many people.

Cuppa, Dev guys...

I don't hate you - and I don't hate the changes. Changes to any game just change the game - if I love it and I do, I'll adapt.

But that doesn't mean I don't see things differently than you and want things differently. I am one of those people who frequently jokes that "The Devs hate my AT", and I have to admit to some extent ... it's not all joke.

When you consistently are told something is being looked at for your AT ... and nothing happens or worse ... you get nerfed. You tend to feel the Dev Gods are against you.

As an MC, I've always had the weakest of everything - except holds - what happened to me? I, as well as every other AT which relies on them (other controllers and defenders) got my holds nerfed for Arena through the use of BF's - which you should have seen in testing. The rest of us did.

Yet - we got nothing in return to help us in Arena, granted - in the early days of Arena on Test if there was a scrapper or a tank i just gave up ... now I can survive against them for a while but ... making the envitable outcome of a battle the same but just prolonged isn't balance guys.

In the Arena, you created temp powers for every other AT class to assist them - BF's, Stuns, Web Grenades, even fly hover, stealth, jump ... but what did those who control get?

I don't see a temp power to increase my damage. I don't see a temp power there to allow my holds to work against a break free. So if I feel I got shorted in that - perhaps there is a reason I feel that way. If I feel I was not represented, then show my where I was so I can feel as if you do care about my AT.

I'm sorry if you're recieving mean spirited posts - those are not the core of the game community. You guys work damned hard (I know because I build software too - dev is a hard path when you have users picking over everything). You turn out a good product. (I know there's a lot of issues with I4 - this was not a minor upgrade it was a major change to code on multiple levels - great job guys. There's bugs an then there's bugs - these are livable and being worked on. You rocked with this release and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.)

But... I've seen it posted over and over - and I tend to agree, a Blaster should be able to blast and be a damage king, a tank should be able to tank, a scrapper scrap and a controller control.

I can hold them ... sometimes ... if they don't have a BF.

My suggestion for helping us - would be the ability to fire off more controlls faster. Make them run through those BF's or make the BF's only last about 3 seconds. That would be fair. A very - very slight increase in damage would be nice but - hey that is giving us more of an advantage. I'd rather remove the issue nerfing us out of any use - than get the damage if I had to choose.