New_Dark_Age
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:That is what I meant when saying all inherents other than Gauntlet increase personal surviviability and help when soloing. Scourage, Fury, Containment, and Critical Strike increase personal surviviability because they give more damage and the faster you can kill the more surviviable you are.Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I don't know, out of all the ideas I have heard for Tanker Inherent changes, a "Reverse Critical" isn't really a bad idea. It wouldn't even have to be an increase in Resistance (thus running up against the cap) just 5% of the time the attack only does half damage. The only issue I see is how to implement it. (You could do something like Critical, split up the damage on every single attack and "if target=Tanker" make half the damage occur only 95% of the time, but I imagine editing every single attack in the game is more trouble than it is worth)
I did have a similar idea for Super Reflexes, though, before the scaling Resistances came along. A sort of "saving throw" where even if you are hit, you still can be partially missed. And there is some sort of mechanism that takes the damage incoming on a Mastermind and splits it. So maybe use the Mastermind mechanism, and 5% of the time divert half the damage to nowhere?
The usual suggestion, having resistance increase the more foes are hitting on the Tanker, is usually vetoed by the devs right away because of concern over what a scaling resistance would do. (Especially on top of another scaling defense like Invincibility) At least this idea, while variable, is variable in a completely random way.
I will point out, though, that no AT has an Inherent that gives them SURVIVABILITY. All Inherents except Tankers and Defenders give additional damage. Sure, a dead foe can't hurt you any more, but that is an indirect buff to your survival, not a direct one. (Whoops, add Dominators to the list of exceptions now too, forgot
)
Tankers and Defenders, though, are unique in that their Inherent ISN'T offensive. It isn't really defensive, either, although Vigilance does give you more End for both attacks and defenses. And Gauntlet defends your teammates, even though it doesn't defend you. (And the Dominator's greater mitigation under Domination is still only because of greater controls, and still runs a risk of missing)
I do feel the Tanker inherent should increase survivability directly. -
Quote:I am aware of Vigilance's uselessness in the majority of situations. It still protects the Defender personally on teams though very rarely. It still has more uses personally than Gauntlet. Gauntlet is dead last in the list as far as personal aid goes since it provides none.Originally Posted by Rodion
Having played numerous tankers and numerous defenders, I can tell you from personal experience that the defender's inherent is totally useless when solo. Gauntlet is always useful, even when solo, because it automatically aggroes mobs and makes them return to you when you use things like Burn and other Fears. Vigilance is also essentially useless if you have Stamina or are playing on a competent team, or if you are mezzed.
Tankers are already extremely durable. I've made tankers that can easily solo x8 team sizes, and these tankers aren't decked out with LotG or Numinas or purples, or anything crazy like that. They do use IO sets extensively, but mostly ones that you can pick up immediately or within a few days on the market. With IOs there are many ways now to increase Tanker durability that also allow you to customize your character to your liking.
I also think your proposed solution falls short. Critical resistance to an incoming attack not useful in the same way that a critical hit on an attack is. A critical hit essentially multiplies each attack's damage by 5-15% over time.
Critical resistance would not be something that you could count on, so you have to build the tank to the same specs you would without the critical resistance. If it is a "small" chance, that implies something like 5% or 10%. A "large" percentage of the damage might be 50%. That means that on the average damage would be reduced by 2.5% or 5%. You can easily get this much extra resistance that you can count on for every attack by selecting the right IOs.
However, most players who are interested in making tankers more durable don't want more resistance, they want more defense. What many would really love to have is resistance to defense debuffs on tankers that don't already have that.
Tanker primaries are already calibrated to give tankers the amount of defense and resistance that the devs consider to be proper. If they deem tankers to be too squishy, then a far simpler solution would be to simply increase the damage resistance and defense numbers of the tankers who are falling behind. They've already done this, tweaking Invulnerability at least a couple of times to deal with shortcomings pointed out by sets such as Willpower.
I am also aware of the durability of Tanks...............and Scrappers ....and Brutes....... who all can solo 8 person missions.
And no IOs do not justify an inherents uselessness when other ATs are benefiting from their inherents.
Perhaps I can come up with a better idea to Strengthen the Tankers inherent. Regardless, the inherent should be strengthened in some way which increases surviviability unless the devs plan to buff something else about Tanks which would make them more ideal when GR is released.
Edit: I find Memphis Bill's idea quite intriguing. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Something about this bugs me. I'm not quite sure *what* though. Can't seem to put my finger on it.. I think cryotech's probably close to it.
Still, a small secondary effect that simulates the tanker getting the enemies attention, helps protect the team, and is useful solo, on top of gauntlet?...
How about a -tohit debuff?
Throwing that out for the heck of it really. Just for the amusing image of "getting them so mad at me (the tank) that they can't shoot straight."
Cool. I did not think they would approve of anything that affects the mobs so I did not propose such a change. The -tohitbuff probably would not be anything significant since they would not want all tankers to have mini-Dark Melee.
Maybe if there was a small chance that each attack would inflict a decent-tohit debuff on an enemy or enemies it would be workable. -
Quote:Originally Posted by CryoTech
I think that your "Critical Resistance" idea might not work to well or effectively. Because if your already at the resistance cap for a certain damage type then while your soloing if you happen to be fighting mobs that use that type of damage, the new gauntlet won't be aiding you at all.
I can't think of any resistance based set that doesnt reach the cap for some damage type except maybe WP? So you still wouldnt benefit all the time from this new gauntlet.
Edit: Only resistance sets that dont reach a cap with 3 Resistance IOs per armor is Dark Armor and WP, Dark Armor gets close to reaching psionic cap however; Ice Armor, a defensive set, even reaches a resistance cap for cold.
Yeah thought about it. If it resisted the attack entirely or ignored the cap, it would still be benefical. Even if it only resisted a percent of the damage it still would help against enemy groups whos damage type you have not reached the cap on.
You seem to recognize the need for a change though so if you have any ideas I would appreciate it. Whatever works. Gauntlet simply should help the Tanker in survivability in some way. -
Quote:How does Gauntlet help a Tanker's mitigation at all ? It doesn't. The proposed inherent is a step in the right direction according to the concept of the Tanker.Originally Posted by Solicio
I did read the whole idea, and I think you're going in the wrong direction. If anything, Guantlet should become more effective at drawing aggro rather than damage mitigation.
As for scrappers, their inherent currently matches their role--damage dealing. Scrappers are more solo friendly, and the ability to score critical hits reflects that.
I'm sorry, but scrappers aren't tanks--they aren't designed to fill the same role. Tanks are designed to be more team-based than scrappers. Being a tank means sacrificing damage for greater mitigation and aggro control. That's why the inherent is the way it is.
Scrappers are designed to be a high damaging AT so they have an Inherent that improves their damage. Tanks are designed as a high surviviablity AT so it is only logical that their inherent helps them survive by mitigating damage to some degree. -
Quote:I did not think you read the whole idea. Gauntlet would still exist as normal.Originally Posted by Solicio
You mentioned how Going Rogue is going to raise questions about why someone would pick a tank when they can pick a brute--the answer is GAUNTLET. The major difference between a tank and a brute is that tanks are specifically designed for damage mitigation and aggro control. Changing the tank inherent into something more "solo-friendly" would blur the lines between those two ATs even more. It's ironic that the way you intend to improve tanks is by making it more difficult for them to do what they do best--taking damage and making sure the rest of the team doesn't. If you change a tanker's inherent, the question wouldn't be "Why should I play a tanker when I can play a brute?", it would REALLY become "Why should I *INVITE* a tank when I can invite a brute?" The current answer is "because a tank does a better job of keeping us from getting killed".
And honestly, tanks don't need their mitigation boosted. If you're making squishy tanks, that's your own fault. They aren't an inherently vulnerable AT, you've just sacrificed mitigation for damage in your own personal builds.
I am sure if Scrappers did not have Critical Strike or Corruptors did not have Scourge or Controllers did not have Containtment you probably would be here arguing that they should not have an effective inherent that benefits them personally , probably to promote teaming or whatever. They do have an effective inherent that helps them survive personally so Tanks should as well. -
As a man who makes solo efficient builds, I am unsatisfied with how the Tanker inherent Gauntlet does nothing to increase the player's survivability unlike all other inherents. While I understand that a change to Gauntlet is not of the highest priority and other changes have been recommended before, I think the Tanker's inherent should be strengthened to aid them personally since all other AT's inherents do.
Going Rogue also raises new questions such as "Why would I want a Tanker on my Team when I can have a Brute" and "Why play a Tanker when I can play a Brute" While the Brute is not as durable as a Tanker , he is pretty darn close and has Fury, a quality which may put him more in demand on a team than a Tanker.
A Tanker's inherent should simply be like a Critical Resistance. Simply put, the Tanker has a small chance to resist a large percent of the damage of an attack that lands on him. Gauntlet would still exist as it does for arggo mangement.
Of all the Archetypes, Tankers come up short in their inherent. Even Defender's inherent helps personal survivability on teams though I feel Vigilance also needs work. Tankers should have an inherent that benefits them personally like every other Archetype. I feel this change matches the concept of the Tanker well as it increases durability while not increasing damage and it maintains the Taunt of Gauntlet. If my change is unworkable then something else should be done. -
Quote:Originally Posted by SunGryphon
None. You're just going to have to be a little patient and wait for a day or three to get the other pack.
I assume this has happened before. It isnt a big deal. I just would like to know when I can attempt to purchase it again. Guess I will try again in 24 hours. -
Quote:Read that. No time is given nor any good alternatives. For example, what other online retailers sell such a thing ?Originally Posted by StarGeek
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I have decided to buy all the Packs today but the NCsoft store only allowed me to purchase 3. I have purchased the Magic, Cyborg, Martial Arts packs. When attempting to purchase the last one, the Science Pack, it said I reached an online purchasing limit. Kinda silly if you ask me.
Does anyone know the time that must elapse before I can purchase it using my card or a way around this small problem ? The Ncsoft store foolishly does not give this information at least in the initial message when it declines you. Going to a local store really isnt an option because of location. -
In my neverending quest to make a god I was wondering what ATs can almost make their god mode permanent with the right build and investing in IOs. I am assuming the most likely canidates are Elec Armor and SR ATs with natural recharge powers plus Hasten.
What builds can almost Perma their god mode or at least have their god mode up for 50% of the time in battle ? I am not just looking at Melee ATs but others as well that get God Mode powers in their Ancillarys/Patrons. What Ats and build are they and how can near Permagod mode be achieved ? Is it worth it ?
Thanks -
You are pissing on the wheels of progress Smeg. Burn needs a Buff. End of Story.
You have nothing to lose with the fear effect being removed from Burn and the Immobile protection being placed in Plasma Shield. It increases solo efficiency which is the highest priority of an aggressive intelligent player and this change will make a FA AT perform better on teams. You shouldnt need a team to commit mass slaughter on a FA with Burn. If you are content with needing a team for Burn to work , then you probably are the type of person who should roll a Defender.
FA needs other buffs as well. Blazing Aura isnt anything special since other defense sets have damage toggles nor is Fiery Embrace unless you are a Fire Melee. -
Quote:I like your 3rd option Power Up the best but I do not think it needs to have such consequences. Fiery Embrace, Aim and Build Up do not have such a penalty.Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
I could think of a few possibilities that I'd rather have than a regular click heal. Or at the very least, would better suit the powerset.
Quick Channeler: (Auto) Either a Quick Recovery or a Quickness/Lightning Reflexes clone, possibly half of both.
Redirect: (Toggle) 10% of the pre-mitigated damage from any Energy or Negative Energy attack that hits you will be released in a short radius PBAOE shockwave that damages nearby foes.
Power Up: (Click) Do 20% extra Energy-type damage on every attack for 20 seconds, followed by 10 seconds of reduced Energy and Negative Energy resistance.
Burst of Power: (Click when defeated) Explode with power as you bring yourself back from unconsciousness, doing medium damage and massive knockback on all nearby foes. Restores 50% of HP and endurance, no invulnerability (unlike Rise of the Phoenix), leaves you substantially fatigued for 30 seconds after 60 seconds.
The Quick Recovery/Recharge is also progress and will perhaps allow players to use Energy Drain more for Healing than for Endurance Recovery though solo the heal still seems weak.
Burst of Power would only weaken the set since a player must die to use it. I am by no means a fan of such Rez powers and their only benefit is that you can skip them allowing more room in your build.
Redirect seems hard to implement but I am not aware of all changes in the game during my absence. Plus it only works on 2 damage types making it useless in most engagements and it would be totally useless against ranged opponents.
You first 2 are good though and I like a consequence free Power UP more than a Click Heal. -
Quote:I was aware that such a change had been made to Energy Drain but I think it was a lazy change. Energy Drain primarily functions as an Endurance drain/recovery; adding a heal factor only divides the player on when to use it. My experience of game play judged EA still inferior after the changes so I have not used it but from listening to other peoples experiences with the new Energy Drain, the heal is not good especially when soloing. Energy Drain should have the heal effect removed and a Click Heal wih Toxic resistance should replace Conserve Power.Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
Psssst...
Energy Drain is an auto-hit AOE that gives you 45HP for every target hit. With 3 level 50 Recharge IOs, it's available every 30 seconds without Hasten, plus 3 level 50 Healing IOs will boost the health regained to 89.5HP per target hit, and it can hit up to 10 targets if you get a good brawl going.
For a set that's otherwise mediocre, this really is one of the best powers in the game.
I gotta agree with Docbuzzard, though. Conserve Power is useless for an Energy Armor character, especially since it comes AFTER Energy Drain.
Anyway what do you think should be replacing Conserve Power ?
Also when will EA be ported over to Heroes ? -
I was thinking about making either an Energy Aura Stalker or Brute but I know how inferior the Power Set is to others currently. However, I do know that Energy Aura will be given to Heroes in the future and because Conserve Power would be twice avaliable to Scraps and Tanks it is logical to assume it will be replaced on both games. But with what? What EA needs the most is a click heal like Reconstruction but I have not seen any information about what changes will be made to EA or when it will be ported over to heroes.
Has anyone heard any information about what changes will be made to Energy Aura and when this will occur ?
What changes should be made to Energy Aura ?
I figure if they gave EA a click heal , it would be a fairly good set which is why I am considering taking it if changes will occur soon and will considerably strengthen it.
Thanks -
Quote:I like all the changes you advocate in Fire Aura. The sole purpose of my posting was to improve Burn for more offense but I know that there are other areas of Fire Aura that need to be improved as well.Originally Posted by je_saist
players have been complaining about how bad burn is as a power for years. I should know, I'm one of them.
However, the devs have declined, for years, to revisit the changes made to fire aura. When they ported Fire Aura to scrapper, the devs didn't spend any time at all thinking about the power set. They just lopped 30% off the tanker values, called it a day, and moved on. Since I5 the devs have looked at everything else but Fire Aura. Even Invulnerability, which really didn't need a rework, got one.
Fire Aura? Still ignored. I honestly don't know what it's going to take to get the developers to sit down and rethink the power set, sort of somebody abducting Posi or Castle next Hero-Con, tying them up in front of a laptop, and not letting them go until they get at least 30 levels on a Fire Aura.
... Let me Stress. That's a BAD IDEA. No. We Shouldn't actually do it.
PUT THOSE ROPES DOWN RIGHT NOW!
Fire Aura does not Tank well. I watch Invul, WP, SR , Ice and Elec perform much better. I played a Fire Aura Tanker to lvl 28 who was mostly loaded with SOs and I would jump into a crowd of enemies and when I took the Alpha , my health would go down to under 50% and I would then use healing flames, but then it would quickly drop again immediately after, often forcing me to use inspirations while my heal was recharging. I watched in envy as other Tanks were in no danger of dying fightng the same group enemies. This is one of the reasons I rerolled as a Fire Scrapper. Fire Aura on a Tanker just felt weak. Before making a Fire Tank, I played a Will Power Tanker to lvl 20 and did not die a single time in those 20 levels. On my Fire Tanker , by lvl 20 , I must have died at least 12 times.
Making Burn into a effective attack would be a step in the direction of offensive over defense. Another improvement would be to improve Fiery Embrace for a longer damage duration and shorter recharge. As for improving Fire Aura's duribility directly, I will leave the ideas to others for now.
I am surprised this problem with Fire Aura has lasted such a long time considering all the changes made to this game in my absence. -
Quote:Whatever works. It is currently too weak right now so a sensible change should be made with the scatter effect being removed.Originally Posted by Cynical_Gamer
The scatter mechanic was added because Burn was too strong without it. I don't see them changing that. How about front loading most of the damage?
They can front load the damage and make it like the power Combustion with the Burn animation simply lasting the same length.
Regardless, Fire Aura needs a more offensive tool to do what it was made for. -
I recently rerolled my Fire Tanker into a Fire/Fire Scrapper and having ignored the advice of many other players I decided at level 30 to take and test Burn. To sum it up, it sucks. The enemies both high ranking and low leave the burn patch and scatter before 3 ticks of damage making it a worthless attack power unless you have other tools or other players to force the enemies in place.
Fire Aura claims to be the most offensive power set. It appears to sacrifice durability in layered defense, no KB protection and no good Tier 9th power for better damage. But where is this damage ? The only thing I see which other Defense sets do not get is Fiery Embrace which is a weaker form of Build Up unless you are a Fire Melee. Outside of that , it offers nothing more than other sets do not have. The set description is therefore misleading or an outright lie which is why I use the word FIX and not CHANGE.
Burn should be fixed to do what it was destined to do, BE AN ATTACK. The Fear Effect should be removed and the Immobile protection should be moved in Plasma Shield because having Immobile protection in an attack is just strange and would only hinder a player from using Burn offensively since he would need to use it for protection as well. Having Immobile protection in Plasma Shield would also completely end the Fire Aura ATs disadvantage of having to take the Leaping Pool, since currently Combat Jumping is a better alternative for Immobile protection than Burn.
Others may claim that they like Burn the way it is because it makes mobs scatter thus increasing their surviviality. This is not what Burn was made for though and their mitagation will just as well be served or better served if Burn was just an effective attack because enemies would die faster, the philosophy of Fire Aura.
As for farming, the arggo cap has made this change to Burn unjust. Using Burn as a farming exploit is no longer an issue, at least no more then any other AOE oriented ATs.
Fire Armor simply fails to deliver on what it promises. Fiery Embrace alone simply does not suffice. In order for it to be a truely offensive power set, Burn should be changed into a more offense attack by removing the fear effect and placing the Immobile protection elsewhere. If the damage must be front loaded or its recharge be changed slightly then so be it. -
I posted my build incase it will help. I will not be using Burn for Immobile protection. I would take it for offensive reasons only. I need to know if Foot Stomp will work well in preventing mobs from scattering before they take a good amount of damage and if Burn scatters harder enemies like bosses and above. You already make it sound like Temp Protection is not to essential but I still need to know if it is the more logical choice in my build or should I just not take both.
Understand that whether I choose Burn or Temp Protection, I will be selecting them late in my build most likely.
Thanks -
Hello, I have recently created a Fire/SS Tanker and because of the tightness of the build I have some hard choices that must be made. In short, I must choose whether to take Burn or Temp Protection or neither and I must choose between either Ring of Fire or Char in Pyre Mastery.
Understand I am building for solo efficiency with max amount of damage possible but effectiveness on a team is important to me as well.
As a Super Strengh Tanker with Foot Stomp, should I choose Temp Protection or Burn or neither? How effective is Burn soloing and teaming with SS ? Does Burn scatter harder enemies like Lieutenants, Bosses and EBs ? (I understand Burn scatters mobs but if it is effective against harder targets because it doesn't scatter them I might consider taking it) Does the Slow resist in Temp protection justify taking it over Burn ?
What is more logical Ring of Fire or Char ?
(Edit)
I did not feel the need to post my build because my character concept makes it quite inflexible but I will incase it will help. Knockback protection will be attained through IOs.
FIRE AURA
Fire Shield
Healing Flames
Blazing Aura
Plasma Shield
Consume
Fiery Embrace
SUPER STRENGTH:
Jab
Punch
Haymaker
Knockout Blow
Rage
Foot Stomp
LEAPING:
Combat Jumping
FLIGHT:
Air Superiority
Fly
FITNESS:
Swift
Health
Stamina
SPEED:
Hasten
Superspeed
PYRE MASTERY:
Ring of Fire or Char
Fire Blast
Fire Ball
That leaves me one more power to choose and no I will not drop fly because of concept reasons. Whether I choose Burn or Temp Protection , I will most likely be taking them late in my build.
Appreciate the help. -
Quote:So it is simply the more KB IOs I have the greater my KB protection will be ?Originally Posted by munecaroon
Immob Protection:
Outside of Burn I think best way is still Combat Jumping (Immob Mag -10,7).
KB Protection:
For Fly'ers I'd say keep Hover on an extra mouse button or ALT/CTRL key. Your toon will just do a spin in the air (but can't do anything else like attacking).
Invention set KB Protection:
Karma and Steadfast might be *cheapest* but still won't go for 2M or less (I might be wrong, recipe prices have nose-dived since issue 16 for a lot goodies).
Mag 4 KB protection is not much in the long run though, it's enough for the usual brawls though.
2x Mag 4 is better (Mag 8 KB prot).
Some AVs/GMs, FakeNemesis' staff attack (for bosses your level and higher) and Rikti pylon will still beat that (need 11-12 pts KB protection here).
You can have 2 builds for a single toon btw, in case you don't know, see a trainer and there you can ask to Change/Rename your build.
Both need individual enhancements and a respec will only change 1 build.
Both builds will have the same XP (you don't need to earn extra XP for your 2nd build).
This can be handy if you like to try out powers or like an easy level up build without burning respecs. For example you could just get CJ and Acrobatics on 1 build and later decide where to go after you leveled up a bit (and have more Inf). -
Thanks for the information so far.
So there is no IO alternative or another alternative to Combat Jumping in my case ? -
Hello, I have not played very much since the arrival of IOs. I have just recently created a Fire Aura Tanker and I wish to know the best way to plug the holes of lack of Knockback resistance and Immobilization resistance outside of Burn.
I have been told that since the advent of IOs , investing in the Leaping power pool is no longer required as long as I have sufficient influence to obtain certain IOs. As of now, I am level 10 and I currently have about 2 million influence at my desposal.
How can I obtain Knockback and Immobilize protection outside of the Leaping Pool ?
How much will it cost ?
How effective would this protection be ?
Thank you for your help. -
Increasing the Argo Cap is a good idea. The more enemies able to focus on you the more powerful and awesome your character can feel. 17 is too low.