New Dawn

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You did say its perma- able at 4 DO slots before didn't you Praf

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No, I said it was permable with 4 level 15 common IOs.

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I do apologize, I really gonna have to stop rush reading these things between load times XD.

You did say its perma- able at 4 DO slots before didn't you Praf, in this thread and we do get it down to 119.5 sec like that and then add the cast time of 1.5 secs and get 121 secs which is 1 sec beyond the 120 duration and yet to your maths it still takes 50% -rechg for problems to occur don't it?

*Tired of dying after writing for too long during a load screen*

Even Dominate is sometimes positional. I separate positional damage from psionic damage, shields has no def to psi. Posting between load screens is clearly not time enough for me think in the round about way. XD I did in fact actually read your comment wrong as well and for both things I apologize.

I've had plenty of downtime moments with that active defense.

Lets say you find the 4 DO slots for it to near perma, so that its now 119.5 secs rechg, you then add the cast time, 1.5 secs, probs occur. I am not happy with finding 4 or 5 DO slots but then maybe the idea is to make haste of value at those levels.

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I will be the one tanking properly asap

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Which for just about any tank, is level 22.

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Don't be daft, earlier than that, when you go up in levels you go onto better enhancements but then at the same time the enemies become more challenging, so lower levels = less challenging anyway. In the lower levels its 12 on for most Tank types I'd imagine with good teams despite level 6 being plausible, especially those of SG teams normally the Tanking can start. The entire Atta mission can be done on other peoples insps for back up if there is neither a defender or controller present so its not that bad. Unhastened Shields? yeah 22 it starts to get better, bit gutting really.

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Toggles suppress and you got nothing, shields down and aggro passed on.

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And it takes an awful lot of slow to do that (at least -80%).

And if it looks likely, you can activate OWTS.

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Hold up I've had my Active Defense slowed to not recharging in time prior to even being able to get OWS like 24 lvls prior. Getting slowed with an only just permable Active Defense doesn't require 80%. When I talk about lower levels I don't mean 32 onwards anyways.

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And if that fails it is easily countered by a break free. Which is more than can be said about Invn's Psi hole.

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At low levels on one long TF you can run out of BFs, in some teams vs certain reps you can run out of insps altogether.

Invuln has a Psi hole, Shields has a Psi hole what's the difference? Oh wait, all Invulns, when thought about, must come with leap pool, fitness, fight pool and now Psi def and psi resists.

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just accept that whist you might have a problem with clicky mez protection, other people do not.

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How about I accept that I and some others have a problem with it whilst you and some others do not? Because that is the reality.

I think some people level skipping much content as they go, missing out on how things would of been had they done it when they lacked the slots.

I came up with a similar build now, I think this is min/maxxed to an intention well but could be slightly less expensive for unnoticeably little difference.

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That another of your unfinished symphonies hun?

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It's out of the dictionary. I will tank LR unaided with a Firetank whose got an unfinished symphony of a build using hocus pocus tanking and I reckon, the entire inner circle together with just a Trick Archer for support as I love them so much.

I am a big believer in letting a Tanker tank on their terms at the end of the day. People put things right thru experience.

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Well, looking at his build, he's gottan ~20% positional defense to all three. And the performance shifter gives 3.13% aoe defense so i'm guessing he slotted it for that and not for acc and recharge.

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*cries*

I meant that I would aim to obtain the same thing but with not giving away buffs like acc and rechg to stamina, lets say you could get the same build but with more acc and rechg in some attack. I'd do that or gain another advantage somewhere else. He might be able to, I dunno, I didn't have time to look at it in detail then.

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A tank taking aggro is simply doing his job. I don't see how ego comes into it.

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Since when is taking aggro same thing as herding?

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v. herd·ed, herd·ing, herds
v.intr.
To come together in a herd: The sheep herded for warmth.
v.tr.
1. To gather, keep, or drive (animals) in a herd.
2. To tend (sheep or cattle).<------Tanks can only herd.
3. To gather and place into a group or mass: herded the children into the auditorium.

I've been on ITF teams where it would of been safer if the Tanker had done some, lets call it short pulling, not far and atleast then even if some others didn't die there would be no end issues, sometimes you just run out of end and there are still more cos you couldnt recover it, even with stamina. I just don't see rules until there becomes a need for them, usually when I am on a Tank the first group sets the rules. I may tank it well for a patient team and then ask if they're happy with it, usually its okay and then I may tank the exact same way for a team who just balls it up and so I may change my ways, and if they're too good I may not see the tank as worth playing in that team and might get something else as its nice to feel useful.

I want to know, about this granite combat jumping about

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I actually like it when the Tank herds, as long as it doesn't take forever. Watching a Granite slowly crawl through the room is snore-inducing. Watching one quickly bounce about with combat jumping, I can handle that. Piles up the mobs nice and tight for my AoEs (especially fun on my Warshade).

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I tp about, you can mudpot "tick" them and get back to a good point where they're all tight. I like tight on stonetanks cos it not good to chase things, gauntlet is potentially poo, recharge can be gimped as hell. I'd love to leave teams ahead of time on scrappers let alone tanks but you can't always predict the outcome. If I left the team behind on a Tank and some blaster ended up tanking an ambush I've failed my job. Job of the tank is to redirect and so mitigate attacks.

Shannon was always one to do one grp at a time since aggro cap, she would run thru and maybe footstomp centre, then turn to other side for knockout blow and direct cones. I may pull to not get ambushers from above or around a blind corner. Relying on being without fight pool there are times when as much eeked out of Invincible is required. You must of read combat attributes and seen how much def debuffs can affect a tanker. They don't have divine avalanche or parry to fall back on and it is their job to turn attacks their way. Ofc if a Dark def wants to flyby dark night everything and I intercept I am not gonna say no. I don't like repetition.

Its upto people how they want to play their tank at the end of the day.

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See, unfortunately I don't believe in hocus pocus tanking techniques to be disclosed every thrid Friday of every even month and stuff.

Dunno, you see Tough and Weave weak, I see the Phoenix rez as part of the attack chain... sorry, can't think of an appropriate word in English I'm afraid.

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Rise of the Phoenix is part of a concept and a fun power. Tanking in this game is not something that is the same as in other games. The fact that you can get back up and start again is a good thing. If you had an unstop crash and died in the middle of a mob then you wouldn't not want it surely?

As for Tanking, I don't get the hocus pocus bit. I get the bit where not everything is found out yet. Its not necessarily magic.

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To me herding is slower and plain boring

First of all, the tanks i've grouped with have for the most part been rubbish at it, often scattering groups rather than bunching em up.

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The run in and hand clap? For example. Yeah I know I dislike it too, but on one claws/sr build I am likely to run in and shockwave. Sometimes its fine and sometimes its not fine. Not everyones character operates the same way as other - actually usually when I see handclap opener it's never fine. Atleast with a cone kb mobs can be directed into a wall, but if chances are they may stay there, "in" the wall. I might kb back into the team. Prolly a bunch of firekins anyway.

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Secondly i tend to play mostly damage heavy ATs (Scrappers, Blasters and Brutes), i can often obliterate a group before a tanker manages to get them where he planned to.

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Again with your powersets and AT tactics could be better off changing. Your a Brute. If I was on a Tanker I would either let you take all the alphas or work with the second group. You can't justify what's good in a team from your powersets tho, often Tanks take into account everyones powerset, and level. Ofc some Tanks will deem a good job despite Murray dying 6 times in a TF but there will be others who would call that poo as people do put different things first.

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Especially hate herding on my brute as i see my precious fury bar tick down between each group.
Like an itf i did a few days ago. The desktop general we had for a leader insisted on herding, so i stood there... waited...waited...waited, then i could kill the group with shield charge and lightning rod, then it was back to waiting...waiting... waiting.

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That Tank was in the wrong. Villains don't need Tanks, on a mixed team like that the job of who should be doing what blurs. Depending on the Brute it maybe safe or make more sense for some powersets to wait for the Tank or go with the Tank. Brutes are designed to build fury and just like Scrappers no Tank should really give that much of a toot if they get mullered so Tanking for them ain't even a consideration.

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Unless the groups are spread out, just let herding die peacefully. To me it's seems that a few try stick with it, regardless that the main point of it was patched out in issue 3/4 or so.

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Tanks can not but herd as the moment their aura hits foes they're herding already, if foes move 3 feet they're being directed so don't think I am all for getting lots of groups all the time everytime or having mobs travel 100 ft past 6 herdpoints for the most obvious one thats mentioned in someones rule book.

Knowing aggro control, if my TA dies on a team with a Tank then I won't be too happy, in fact if I can't debuff as soon as I would like to through fear of getting aggro then I won't be too happy but I don't expect game breaking impossible. My Oilslick hits 16, 5 blazing arrows on 16 foes for 1.16 sec of my time in herding up I would hope its done fast as the make on it isn't necessarily much and even thats only with some teams.

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Another thing is that due to lack of basic skill, you and your team need the tank to bring foes in a silver tray, but that doesn't make herding good on large teams, just shows up a poor team.

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I see that, when Tankers feel the need to take Tough and Weave that it shows up a poor team. A team often can do way more damage mitigation than they ever do but they don't and so Tanks become less offensive and built more to have people shoot fish in a barrel. All powers offer flexibility just as different methods suit different people. What's stupid is not subjective to the stupid. Peoples idea of fun differs too.

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If a scrapper is not making a tanker sweat to arrive first into mobs, then the scrapper is not doing his job properly.-

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Scrappers don't make me sweat, even if they run in. I may stop and think "Oh dear" and see them instantly die. I don't believe in teams following them in either as they tend to enter dangerous points where they risk the team with more than the team can handle. Easily with more than any Stone tank can recover. You cant defy game mechanics. Ofc every team should be judge on its own merits and ofc I don't base my views solely around a level 50 game. I base things and what should be done by what one can see.

Scrappers tend to lack knowledge about anything but themself. I do on mine at times as it's less about support and more about fun.

I do often set up groups for Tanks WELL (not compromising others badly) on most my Scrappers especially with Willpower but I do see that Tanks look out for the team more than put their bodies to their own personal XP or damage over time. Often a Tank will be still with the team helping, supporting whilst I have gone off and got the next set up for just in time interception by the Tank. I know they could be off ahead and I could be finishing up but rather than tell people how to play you keep the pace going by doing something somebody could be, yet aren't.

Scrappers can lead in DPS but when it comes to potential teamwipes they're better at that too. I would rather think there is a player behind an AT, whose paid and have a right to play just as much as I do than just say what Scrappers can, can't or should be doing.

If you don't like someone don't team with them. I wouldnt kick a Tank for doing his job, keeping aggro off of the squishies.

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Herding in a team of 5+ is plain stupid except in very few particular situations. It's just a waste of time for the whole team while the tanker feels uber at the expense of the team, IOs or not, plus most AoE debuffs can be reapplied easily on next group so can't see a point there either.-

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A lot of tanks like to herd whilst the team is finishing off the last group. That could be even in a team which is fotmed. It has the next group ready. There is no waiting.

Waiting may come when more than one person is likely to get aggro cap or more than they can handle, because pulling is the sensible option. Waiting may come because you can't trust to leave people alone for 5 secs or you can't trust people to have your 6 in time. In a team today a Dark Def had Darkest Night and didn't use it. So many more things that could go on in favour of the team yet don't.

Sometimes that 8 man team isn't as ideal for you vs enemy as you may think it is and so you may have to mitigate by more than one means if you can. Be it buffing your own powers like invincibility or hitting as many as possible with AoEs, AoEs that don't necessarily include damage but damage mitigation instead.

I think establishing a train of thought based around 1 tank or 1's own tanks, teams, would be very silly.

Generally I may only herd 3 times in a mish, unless I deem otherwise as its quick anyway. I regard tending to the enemy as herding so even though it just looks like I pulled enemies tight to max out cone attacks and given them a wall to hit back to, its herding.

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Herding is fine in a team of up to 5 people, more than that and specially in an 8 man team, herders should be kicked immediately for making the rest of the team waste time for no valid reason.

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Some people, using your term for herding, herd unnecessarily, its true, but then some people herd for some necessity that others may not see.

I wouldn't follow a binary set of rules on it, like oh noes its a +5 team. It could simply be that someone is still getting to know their tank or their team.

Intention is the most important thing. I'd rather simply be sure about whose side people are on. Some people would rather play safer than sorry. With every team being different you play to the expectations your most accustomed too.

Do you only invite IO setted builds/fotms for the greater pace they can keep up with?

Latest Guide I knew of on US server.

When it comes to our guides, they've disappeared, I did think that if anyone wanted saving them they could say something and I have no doubt that if anyone did a guide they kept a copy at home.

You don't see SR Brutes tanking till late do you?

They're safe in the knowledge quickness comes later at 35, safe in the knowledge that they're taunt aura is at 20 and not lvl 8, and safe in the knowledge that they can pretty much scrap their way thru game, for many levels they're not going to have every enemies attention for very long to get that much in the way of stacked slows.

Praf I don't solo the sodding thing. I will be the one tanking properly asap. I do know these slows, Frostfire and co, gets herded asap. You get slowed by CoT, you get slowed by Outcasts. Toggles suppress and you got nothing, shields down and aggro passed on. Now I know you can hasten things but I don't expect new players to come in and do all that necessary stuff. An early impression from watching Ice have np may make them re roll.

So now, when we think of Shield Tanks and what they can do we think of them automatically with Fight Pool, Speed Pool, Med Pool and Fitness Pool in order to be good.

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I'd guess the only reason Sister Psyche gets used more is that her costume is more revealing than Ms Liberty's.

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I thought American men loved red hair. Jean Grey - Red hair, Mary Jane - Red hair, what I've personally been told about american men by english women with red hair who went out there, just adds up.

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It's possible for a tanker to make Active Defense perma by level 12.

You just have to 4 slot with level 15 common IOs.

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I knew that fact Praf, I stated it days ago. You can get slowed. Its not perma enough.

As for Ninja and SR I will highlight the fact that they're on other ATs that aren't necessarily effected by every nme npc you can aggro cap and don't have the expectation of doing aggro control like Tanks do.

You get the moment of glory right after you res. Res + MoG, 2 powers in one? Can't be bad. Oh and add the PBAoE damage and stun and you got 3-4 powers in 1 really. It's been asked for before and I can't see it changing.

I've had 6 crashes since Maintenence. That's something to brag about I think so I will keep this going so we can have this game obtain a World Record that clearly other games will be envious of.

It's probably just the French Server as the German server is okay.

Whenever I do builds I believe in targeting the natural costs and effects, lowering the costs, raising the effects and then getting the bonuses I want.

When I see Stamina slotted for Acc and Rechg I ordinarily assume that a certain amount of percentage bonus is lost to somewhere else in the build.

I am looking at it thinking "Is there another way?" but perhaps there isn't. Dual Blades/Dark Armour with fight pool is thirsty on slots. It doesn't have to be if you can get Attack Vitals as pretty much the only combo you need to know.

I think its overkill for what teams need myself, so definitely team worthy.

Fun and making a concept just so is the main thing.

You've sacrificed resistance for a little confuse resistance, a tiny bit for a mezz that'll happen almost never to you..I like +rechg but I have to know how much I would "seriously" need. (I am not saying you've over recharged it I am just saying that with attributes, too much is a waste, as it can mean too little of something else - not that it necessarily would).

My build ain't perfect, its a work in progress as she is still leveling on Vigilance but if you want a lol at it I'll pm you it. It was done a long time ago but you might look at it for slotting ideas like I will look at yours for slotting ideas.

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180% would be enough, problem is he has no defense mitigation aside from heightened senses and weave.
He could do it with insps though.

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I will go with what an American AV demolisher said, as he's possibly the man to beat on it (I throw out any excuse of doing any math ) 190%+ but don't go more than 205%.