New Dawn

I remember agreeing with most everything he said. How hard is this to sink in? I do not keep an archive of "exactly" what he said. I do not need to. If you have a problem with what I have said it is upto you to prove otherwise not for me.

The statement is the truth. People have opinions and that's that. Their opinions can come from private excel sheets and just like not all opinions need to be backed up, not everything that is private needs to be shown.

You can't prove that I am not telling the truth even though you may like to. Also where you got the thought that I said I made spreadsheets to prove Statemans points is a wonder.

I had my spreadsheets, I never told you that in this thread, I never made them to prove Statesmans points. All things I have said are true from the time I logged into the forums. What went on before is not on the cards and didn't have to be.

I don't find you at all justifiable in trying to prove anything against me and until you can find something then you have nothing. I will continue to see that you have nothing no doubt.

Plus this has been the most childish waste of my time.

April 2005 is before my time on the forums. Anything before that (Sept 2005) I had not seen. Did I say that I made spreadsheets to prove Statesman right? Don't think I did. I did say that I basically agreed with what he said apart from a couple of things, one with a mathematical error.

I am innocent to proven guilty and this is not looking like you are proving me guilty at all. I am not going to dig up all of Jacks design announcements when all I have said is that I agreed with most of what he said, this was on the European forums and from the time I discovered them which is fair. It's not upto me to prove anything because I have nothing to prove to myself.

All in all, what you've thought as inplausible is not inplausible at all.

Just a little interjection, Tankers with taunt , 6 slotted taunt can have trouble out-aggroing a Brute. Taunt is just piece of a puzzle that is called threat. The Brutes damage on top of its gauntlet, along with it vicinity + auras can all stack to vast amounts of threat which versuses all that on a Tank.

ED happened after my join date. Oh wait that is just my forum join date. Forum join date is basically when I first found out there was a forum. I joined the game in Feb 2005, game was just out in the UK I think. There is atleast one where he got the numbers wrong. Alot went into complaining about ED, problems with Tanking, Statesmans idea of Tanking. All you've got to look at is what happened on the US forums I think. It's too much work for me to try to dig up european forums. It wouldn't surprise me if much has gone. If you want something to prove against me, you can dig it up.

Statesman posted more on the european forums than anyother Dev. Warwitch though came within 2 posts of it I think. Other Devs one or two if lucky. Warwitch also came over which was nice. Certainly War witch is possibly our fave dev.

That is 25th April 2005. I logged into the forums September 2005. That to me may of never been quoted about after my join date on the European Forums. Atleast I don't remember it. I can only go from my join date. What I said was relevent from my join date.

Don't know what you mean by that exactly but the european forums was a lot less animated than the US. Sometimes problems were ironed out quicker, sometimes slower as they just werent thought of. It's a shame that Dr Rock from Union didnt collab with Mids from Defiant then the builder would of been cooler. Dr Rocks sustainability calculator was moving towards a more complete model. There is and always was more than just relying passively with shields. I had been telling him that. I thought I might go through this bit before looking at what you said Statesman said.

Then whatever it is you are talking about do you have links to it?

I do play Champions Online and Star Trek Online. I was one of the few without something against him. I didn't find everything people said about him justifiable. I didn't agree with most things people derived from what he said. All this was on the European Forums. The day ED came out I took my Invuln and tanked a +2 Neuron mish for a PuG and wondered what all the commotion was about. Never had a problem adapting.

I have no reason to be worried.

Yes it was very nice. I did give it a 2 minute attempt to find something Statesman said but came up with nothing. If you would like to come up with something he said or was quoted on the European forums I might be able to scroll down on it and find me.

Edit: One other thing, did you know Dr Rock at all? Like on talking terms? Oh and this is more like me proving my existence.

I tried doing this : http://tomax.cohtitan.com/digest/ind...y=9&european=1

What you got?

Dr Rock was a friendly guy ingame and out, he wanted to pass on to me his damage sustainability calculator. I had a different name then, I changed it when coming over. Infact I changed it 3 times. We were allowed to change our names in coming over. Basically if you want to dig up the archives then please do. I tried but they're not always easy to find. I have nothing to prove to myself.

You might not realize it Arcanaville but some of us came from the European forums with only a European game account. I have difficulty placing you in our discussions but atleast I know why. No I didn't take part of any conversations pre september 2005. I have never said otherwise also he was around quite sometime after I joined the forums and of them I did agree with. People took what he said in one light. I took what he said in another. We argued over this on the European Forums. To not consider the european forums is a bit vacant I think.

Being flexible with Statesmans statements I agreed with practically everything he had to say. There were a couple of things wrong like a mathematical error but not much.

I can see a balance target in their actions, the game was more or less balanced to the endurance bar (ball park thinking) not against time itself. Most players balance things against the second. In general I like what's changed so I like the direction things have taken it's just sometimes you can't change anything that is ingrained at the start that's the problem and put out more new content etc.

You're in melee, the team around you have just taken PBAoE damage, one more PBAoE damage and they could go down, hell if one of them and this could happen builds more threat than you in a moment they could go down. Are they a keystone after which more team members follow? Sometimes the support isn't there to get people back to full between PBAoEs, why should it be? No AT is needed. You can drop back and maintain highest threat until peoples healthbars are looking peachy again. I would sacrifice my own DPS if it means that the teams DPS greater DPS is going to be sustained.

No power should be needed. No AT should be needed. Correct?

Confront allows me as a player to confirm that other ATs aren't needed.

Scrappers can probably get their first all Scrapper MoSTF with my Scrapper tanking all the AVs for them. No one has to be defeated. No one has to turn their character into a medic or replace any of that bleep. You don't therefore need any defender, tanker, mastermind, corrupter, dominator, controller, I am just going to list everyother AT. That's how far no other AT is needed. The game was based around SOs, so looking at what anyone does with an incarnate build or fully IO setted build, somethings that most players may not unthinkably even have still is not something I would do.

Yes but Scrappers fill the role of a Tanker where needed. No AT was meant to be needed. A Scrapper without Confront just doesn't work for me. It means that something I could offer the team should they need it is skipped "needlessly". My builds are tight, but never need dice in the mirror as well tight.

I found that tactic when RV was first introduced so that Scrappers could tank GW and Mako together or Black Scorpion or Lord Recluse. With Scirroco it just helped to have someone with -fly. It could be a Peacebringer, Blaster or Trick Archer, whatever. There was no -Range then. It took a specific slotting in SOs. This tactic came out on the forums a whole 3 or 4 years later. Whilst the US forums were "my Icetank can't tank Lord Recluse", the EU forums was quiet for SRs scrappers were tanking Recluse, hell people did it with Divine Avalanche but that's good if you got DA. The point is people knew how to tank Lord Recluse with an Icetank unaided pretty instantly in the EU.

In those days half a server would need everything in the box as they aligned themselves up for the AVs to do what they liked. I would just facepalm watching Tankers direct cones into everyone. It seemed important that people stood behind a tanker. I used to facepalm alot.

Also in those days with an SO build a Invuln Tanker could tank Ghost Widow, Mako and Scirroco in melee, unaided, longer than what Stonetanks could last against Ghost Widow alone and by that clear way beyond 10 minutes. I play with things, somethings people find out 3 years later or more have originated from me but this one might stump many for way longer.

Or it could be that you think too highly of yourself that you missed the point of Scrappers.

Scrappers were designed to lead in raw DPS, this means run into mobs and do the most damage without outside buffs. They're more soloable. Blasters if they tried it would have their DPS lowered through getting mezzed. Without CM or such like to act as a Psuedo damage buff (by allowing you to use all your other attacks, you just ain't doing the DPS.

There was a time before CoV when people didn't always have a Tanker in the team. Instead of relying on Brutes they relied on Scrappers to do the role of the Tanker. You can get a Blaster buffed to high heaven to do the role of the Tanker. No AT is needed.

This is where you have shown me your limitation. Why wasn't Lord Recluse defeated? It is within the means of almost any Scrapper to use Lord Recluses limitations against him, use those Heroes you are meant to be saving to help you defeat him, that is what they're for. Now between keeping them Heroes alive and limiting Recluse some power like Confront is a good idea. I will use a Scrapper to tank Lord Recluse on the STF while people beat him up. It's no different. The advantage of Confront on such a mission is you can take them heroes you save with you, have them fight with you and keep aggro off of the team.

I know how hard Jade Spider can be. I question the "how easy to do all of it" it was for you.

What these forums are about you? My comments was about you? I was not putting words into your mouth. Go read other peoples posts, not just here but in the Scrapper section. Clearly one person thought it better to take Placate over Confront.

You were never refered to.

I never thought of you.

Don't flatter yourself.

What I have dug up that you said:

You missed the point of Scrappers. They are meant to in someway fill the role of a missing AT maybe with buffs, maybe without. Brutes weren't about in the beginning and I will add Blasters can be buffed to fill the role, well to more of a Scrapper as people would see them to some extent. Given the damage output of Blasters in a team. Given the level of buffage a Blaster can recieve why bother with a Scrapper? For what some of them have, a taunt aura, great for keeping mobs packed for debuffage and AoEs. What's logical is logical.

I don't know why you are even going "if" I have been saying it since 2006. There were days when for the STF people would "need" a Stonetank, need an empath to stack CMs on that Stonetank, need a pocket Kin for that Stonetank, need a Rad to minus regen, avoid having Scrappers if they were going for an MoSTF. There was never any IF to it, a whole team of Scrappers could of MoSTFed the STF way back then.

No a win is where everyone stays alive, you can guarantee much more efficiency that way. No one likes to level slowly. Debt used to do that. People would moan about it, then do something stupid and put it down to something that "happens" and not learn from it at all. A Firetank maybe oblivious to the constant deaths the Blaster in the team keeps having but the Blaster is still up his butt because that Firetank makes him great XP. I am sure there would of been a greater feeling of adrenalin if the Blaster just experienced some being in the red and kept on playing. One thing that stands out is people like to earn good XP they don't do that laying on the floor. Another thing that stands out is that people like to be in that Near Death Experience zone, wondering "How the hell did we survive that?" I have to let aggro astray as a Tanker just so their little healthbars move, they have to have their little on the side battles otherwise it isn't fun. Shooting fish in the barrel isn't fun. Laying on the floor isn't fun. It might be nice if I was lazy but no.

Often these really tight builds are like Cars that needed to have Dice hanging from the mirrors. You can't fit it in but someone else will by removing the Dice. We all generally play different builds. I wouldn't want your builds and you wouldn't want mine. We have different intentions. Powersets, Power pools and so on allow us to define our characters by our own intentions. What we shouldn't be trying to do is define other peoples characters for them.

My Scrappers will quite happily do whatever a Tanker does basically. I play Tankers mainly, I have that mindset. Other people don't, by the sounds of things they may on a Scrapper have a Stalker mindset and wish to placate all aggro onto the rest of the team who are already in the red or something. Be that last Leg End standing that their n00b mates cheer on.

I don't either. We are not using Confront as part of an attack chain. Ranged attacks can miss, and by missing not attract anything to turn around and hit you instead. In that moment someone else could be defeated. If their important to other peoples survival, then others can follow to give the domino effect. There is a time and a place for every power. It's knowing the time and place. Sure if we stayed on fighting +0s that do not tohit buff, that do not have higher defenses then we can almost guarantee a hit, but there is always a 5% chance to miss. You can't say there isn't. Edit: Just to add the first Scrapper I had confront on has Focus and Shockwave, being a SR has good run speed yet I still found value in Confront for the range on it beats those attacks as well as beating travel, as well as more chance to turn an enemy onto me. People insist they can just stab things and thats it but that just doesn't not happen. I have seen alot of this insistence wind up to be hot air. Scrappers with Auras may do better to keep mobs in the debuff auras and pull long ranged strays back to them too.

Again this is has a time and a place, usually its survivability you are offering at the start of a fight. It's very good but not good for a win versus other scenarios. There are different ATs and different Powersets within them that tackle different scenarios differently and better than eachother. There is no difference so there is no problem.


Whilst Tankers and Brutes do "hopefully" make better meatshields. They're not always available. I am not one hanging on in a TF till we get a "insert here". I am one for the first come, first served, you'll do, change to your badge toon even if people think its useless type person. We are not meant to have to rely on other ATs or any Powerset we are merely meant to be better off in terms of something or other so this. A competent team could be made up of all the fotm sets, a competent team could be made up with all the fotl sets. What's competent is subjective. There is generally no such thing as a glass half full with me. An incompetent bunch of players can be made competent and nothing has to be failed at all. Some people quit when there are still options available. They have all the so called great powersets but they just can't do whatever it is together. I don't do that. There are many alternatives and failure should never be one. Getting Incarnated and IO setted isn't a must neither for pre incarnate content.

Some people are going on about removing the power for something else. Which is yellow, it's like "I don't want to guarantee myself the AVs aggro". Or it's not tactically good like "I don't want to do anything which can raise the survivability or the DPS off of the team". I actually think that the game is not complicated and people continue to demand more and more in their favour just to get through it. It's a bit like Daddy's little Angel wanting a Rolls Royce just to go to the shops or a laptop just to open up a Facebook.

I do not see it necessary to turn a Stallion into a Unicorn. Lot's of people think Scrappers are fine as they are and find it laughable to need a buff.

Yes the not caring who takes Confront and not providing selflessness towards selfish builds is fine to me. There is an unwritten context, I care whether or not I take confront for one and can change my mind on anything the next day for another. Or should I? Actually "Let Idiots Die" is a good philosophy. I'll concentrate on those bringing survivability to the team rather than those who only have themselves in mind. That's fair.