Netphenix5
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Posts
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Joined
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Just a bit of necro-posting to say "thank you!" Two years I've been playing and I never really understood the secrets of getting rich of the market, but you definitely helped my latest character a LOT. Didn't get the two purples, but half a billion in two weeks is way better than anything I managed before - especially on my server.
So again, thanks for this very detailled, useful and entertaining read.
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Quote:Not to sound confrontational (I understand your point, believe me) but it makes as much sense to me as typed defense.Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
It makes no logical sense, though. Positional defense does, since you would avoid ranged/melee/AoE attacks differently, but positional resistance? You get harmed less by being stabbed with a knife than having it thrown at you?
I mean, I'd like SOMEONE to explain to me why my character can be a wiz at dodging a bullet but has to be a sitting duck when hit by a ball lightning. What, the "oooohh, shiny" factor overrode his impulse to, you know, DODGE?
Yet typed defense exist in the game, so I really think an argument could be made for positional resistance - and I tried to work an explanation into each power description, you'll notice.
The same reason we have positional defense and typed defense sets instead of just one type. *shrug* And just as I don't think a SR and a Ice armor toon end up in the same spot, neither would this set and, say, Elec or Fire armor.Quote:Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
What would be the point of adding Positional Resitance? If you have a toggle that adds resistance against each position (Melee, Ranged and AoE) you're in exactly the same position as if you had, say, a S/L toggle, a F/C/Tox toggle and an E/N/Psi one.
It'd work the same as an SR build - sure, you'll END UP taking them all, but for the levels where the AoE toggle is unavailable, you'll be more careful around fireballs.Quote:Originally Posted by Dr Harmony
All this accompolishes is letting someone make a build where they skip one of these toggles, eg you decide to let yourself be vulnerable to AoE attacks.
How many times do you do that with existing armor sets? I find I always take all major powers to cover all bases. Sometimes I'll delay one power a bit, but its not a particularly exciting part of my career where I'm vulnerable to fire or whatever, its just work in progress.
I'm well aware of that. I wouldn't expect such a set to be available in a week. But as mentionned, things like Elusivity or the way Embrace of Fire works now had to be hard-coded THROUGHOUT the game, so it's not like it can't be done.Quote:Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
Cool set idea aside, I'll add to the "Standard Code Rant" here.
Since "Positional Resistance" doesn't exist in the game, to make this work they'd also have to add in "Positional Damage". Not only would they need to figure away to work it into the damage mechanics, then the would also have to add it into every single attack and every single defense/resistance set in the game.
It doesn't look as simple or easy once you realize how imbedded such a change would need to be.
What it boils down to is, would teh devs think the effort worth it? That I can't answer for them. I'm just posting a concept suggestion
- and, if I may be so bold, one that would be easier to implement than half the set suggestions we see float on this sub-forum, wouldn't you agree? 
Oh and Leo_G : thank you for the positive feedback. It's much appreciated. At least I know SOMEONE likes the idea ("they love me, they really LOVE me !" )
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Quote:Again, like they did with Elusivity? Which doesn't affect every player of CoX (only PVPers) but still had to be hard-coded in for everyone... It's not like they don't know how to do it.Originally Posted by Codewalker
Changing that would require changing the way every power in the game works :-/ I didn't say it would be easy, I was just expressing an suggestion. And I still think it would be a cool set.
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The way I was envisionning it, it would be coded in a roundabout way - essentially the resist would be to ALL damage types equally, BUT would only get applied if the positional tag was the correct one. No need to add damage separations or what-have-you.
So the first power would give, say, 20 % resist to S/L/E/F/C/N/T/P BUT ONLY IF DELIVERED THROUGH A MELEE ATTACK. This takes care of the Psi wall argument, since Psi is notorious for having attacks which have no positional vector, only a type label, which this set would be powerless against.
It would also solve the issue with such powers as Tough or IO set bonuses : Tough's S/L resist would be apllied no matter what the attack vector is so long as it's S/L damage, and would stack with the S/L resist from the powers if the tags match.
Frankly, unless there is a code secret that I don't envision, all it would boil down to would be an IF/ELSE test (well, more or less.) The only truly annoying part would be adding a tab in the combat attribute window to display those vector restistance values.
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Quote:Well remember, your Scrapper's secondary is my Tanker's Primary, so there.Originally Posted by Dispari
I think the reason they don't make more secondaries is that secondaries really just aren't exciting. If you look at the most popular defense sets they're the ones where people don't have to use them. Ever. Just toggle on your Willpower, Invuln, Shield, or SR powers and go to work. People like primaries that are busy and interesting. People like secondaries they don't have to think about. Creating a new set people won't have to think about isn't very exciting. *Snap !*
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That's the point, it would be a totally new armor concept. Since vectors are already coded in (for defense purposes) I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be too huge a project to tie a resistance mechanics to it - certainly less than invent a new type of protection altogether, like they did with Elusivity. And frankly it's always baffled me that one could dodge shots or fire, but could only resist the later.
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I think a "Chi Armor set" with vector-based resistances would be a cool addendum and a refreshing change from the other resistance-based sets.
Chi Armor
Through meditation, training and effort, you have attuned your body to the flow of universal energies. This grants you hightened senses and lasting power, as well as toughen your body against incoming blows. You have no protection against attacks you can't see coming though, such as direct attacks on your psyche. Your training has also taught you to weather blows, not dodge them, and so you feel every hit, even if they don't hit as hard.
Harmonious Cloak : Your training allows you to smootht he flow of internal and external energies in your body, spreading and defusing the force of melee hits (+resist against melee)
No-mind Focus : You are now capable of perceiving the Chi flows and disturbances caused by your foes' aggressive thoughts. By following those flows, you enhance your accuracy and perception (Passive +ToHit, +perception bonus)
Yang drain : By absorbing the Yang energies of your foes, you can both focus their aggression on you and boost your own health (Taunt aura with a +regen bonus per enemy around - maybe a diminishing return)
Unseen swat : You control has improved to the point where you can deflect incoming ranged attacks with a focused spike of Chi, lessening the impact (+resist against ranged)
One with Nature : Balancing your energies with that of your surrounding, you harmonize your inner self and protect it against disturbances (Mez protection)
Karma Shroud : Nearing the mastery of Chi control, you surround yourself with a shroud of Chi which cushions you from blasts, explosions and area-based attacks (+resist against AoE)
Yin absorbtion : you have attuned your own energies to the point that you can replenish your endurance faster by absorbing the ambient energies (Passive +recovery boost)
Precotious Reincarnation : in a last-ditch manipulation of the Karmic Wheel, you can return your departing spirit to your mortal shell. Such a transfer requires energy that you drain from your surrounding foes, leaving them tired (self-rez with a very long recharge, stuns, slows and recharge-debuffs the enemies around)
Karmic Avatar : Drawing massively upon the surrounding energies, you infuse yourself with Chi. Your recovery, resistances and Regeneration are all massively improved for a time. Such an desperate effort in exhausting though, and once the rush passes, you'll be left drained and unable to recover for a while (+Melee, Ranged, AoE resist, +Recovery, +Regen god mode with the usual End-crash and a recovery AND REGEN debuff) -
I think a Chi Armor set with vector-based resistances would be a cool addendum and a refreshing change from the other resistance-based sets.
Through meditation ,training and effort, you have attuned your body to the flow of universal energies. This grants you hightened senses and lasting power, as well as toughen your body against incoming blows. You have no protection against attacks you can't see coming though, such as direct attacks on your psyche. Your training has also taught you to weather blows, not dodge them, and so you feel every hit, even if they don't hit as hard.
Harmonious Cloak : Your training allows you to smootht he flow of internal and external energies in your body, spreading and defusing the force of melee hits (+resist against melee)
No-mind Focus : You are now capable of perceiving the Chi flows and disturbances caused by your foes' aggressive thoughts. By following those flows, you enhance your accuracy and perception (Passive +ToHit, +perception bonus)
Yang drain : By absorbing the Yang energies of your foes, you can both focus their aggression on you and boost your own health (Taunt aura with a +regen bonus per enemy around - maybe a diminishing return)
Unseen swat : You control has improved to the point where you can deflect incoming ranged attacks with a focused spike of Chi, lessening the impact (+resist against ranged)
One with Nature : Balancing your energies with that of your surrounding, you harmonize your inner self and protect it against disturbances (Mez protection)
Karma Shroud : Nearing the mastery of Chi control, you surround yourself with a shroud of Chi which cushions you from blasts, explosions and area-based attacks (+resist against AoE)
Yin absorbtion : you have attuned your own energies to the point that you can replenish your endurance faster by absorbing the ambient energies (Passive +recovery boost)
Precotious Reincarnation : in a last-ditch manipulation of the Karmic Wheel, you can return your departing spirit to your mortal shell. Such a transfer requires energy that you drain from your surrounding foes, leaving them tired (self-rez with a very long recharge, stuns, slows and recharge-debuffs the enemies around)
Karmic Avatar : Drawing massively upon the surrounding energies, you infuse yourself with Chi. Your recovery, resistances and Regeneration are all massively improved for a time. Such an desperate effort in exhausting though, and once the rush passes, you'll be left drained and unable to recover for a while (+Melee, Ranged, AoE resist, +Recovery, +Regen god mode with the usual End-crash and a recovery AND REGEN debuff) -
Quote:You, good sir, owe me a clean keyboard, a bomb of computer screen cleaning foam and the fifteen minutes of my life I spent explaining to my boss why I sprayed company property with a mouthful of water then proceeded to laugh myself sick.Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
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Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Did I miss any?
I'd like to point you to my first post in this thread, #23 if I'm not mistaken. I listed my own 2¢'s worth of suggestions. May I specifically direct your attention to my fourth point? As I said, it's... Controvertial to be sure, but it would DEFINITELY make Tankers welcome in most current end-game content.
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Quote:I'll grant that my choice of words was misleading and I'll edit my post accordingly. But what I meant is this (ignore the approximate math, I'm trying to make a point) : if Scrappers and Brutes are 75% as resistant and equally agile as Tankers, hold the same aggro and kill those 16 mobs twice as fast (at the very very least), then they are not balanced. Moreso when the latest round of gimmicks made the 25% or so higher survivability of Tankers utterly MOOT.Originally Posted by TheBruteSquad
How did they 'Raise' scrappers and brutes? Scrapper damage and toughness hasn't changed in years, outside specific sets, and brute damage was reduced.
On SO's there's NO comparison between tanker toughness and brute/scrapper toughness. I've got a level 19 inv tanker I'm tinkering with at the moment and his smash lethal resistance on DOs surpasses most brute sets running toughness on SOs at level 50 (all but inv and elec).
If it weren't for IO defensive bonuses there still would be no question in roles. An SR tanker softcaps on SOs. An SR brute on SOs gets his teeth kicked in trying to tank with his mid 30% defenses. You can't really count outside buffs in this kind of comparison, as they turn any AT into an invincible juggernaut that make both Brute and Tanker a waste of a team slot.
The largest problem with Tankers vs the world these days isn't that the other ATs have been buffed to make them obsolete.
It's the abundance of defense bonuses in IO sets, and even support power sets, being bad game design.
I'll agree that the defense mechanics are broken in CoX, but we all know that they won't and can't fix them. But they CAN try to make Tankers better at what their intended role IS the way they did with Brutes by evening the Fury buildup (which on average made running it easier) or proliferating AoE-intensive sets like Elec Melee to Scrappers (whose higher damage cap make far more efficient on such a set than any Tanker) -
I think many will agree that Tankers are fine on their own, it's just that too much of the game has been tweaked to allow other ATs to trivialize them. I don't want my Tanker to outdamage a Brute, that would go against both theme and common sense ; however when a /Traps Corruptor can have the same defense levels as my Shield/ Tanker and do more damage at a distance, I feel I'm REALLY not needed anymore. Moreso when I'm playing a SR/ Tanker and CONTROLLERS peel the aggro off me unless I'm spamming Taunt.
Now, it's clear that it's way past the point where defense mechanics and caps could be tweaked game-wide to give Tanker their edge back. It would cause riot both in game and in real life, and anyway, with the RNG, even soft-capped will not always turn a Defender into a fortress. But things CAN be done to the Tanker archetype to give it back a role - and even better the role it is meant to occupy.
What I would do is :
- Raise the HP cap on Tankers so there is a REAL gap between them and other Melee ATs. I'm talking easily a thousand hp or two at level 50. When I envision a Tanker, I see it survive even hits that lands and hurt - (s)he just keeps going. Of course, it would ban Regen as a Tanker set, but hey, we can Deal® If it messes up the balance, maybe I'd lower their Regen cap a bit so they can't be turned into Regen toons anyway?
- Raise the benefits they get from their armor sets. If my damage is lower than other ATs, then by damn, I wanna survive long enough to actually apply that damage. 90% res cap is fine and dandy but not if it means spending a billion inf to get there on more than one type. My Elec/ Tank is there Energy-wise, but that's it, and it means that even at 50 I must PICK MY FOES to survive an alpha... And that just ain't right. Same with SR - scaling res should be higher so that even if it lands I can keep helping. RES and DEF holes are okay - no one should be able to survive everything - but the other values should be higher across all sets. Other Melee ATs have the ultimate mitigation - they kill their foes faster. Give us a way to compensate that. Make us weaker than Brutes and Scrapper damage-wise, by all means, but do make us better able to survive where they can't, because that's our role. Which ties in with my third point...
- ...Raise taunt caps across the AT, boost the area and range of Gauntlet, Taunt and auras, and raise WP and SR's auras to REAL taunt values. I'm a tanker. My purpose is to be at the center of a cluster of mobs, slowly chipping at their HP, surviving their hits and keeping them off my partners' backs. I can survive it, they can't, so make it so I can keep more foes off them for longer. Additionally, that would balance higher HPs and armor values, because even with cap'd everything, 30+ mobs shooting/punching/tickling me is BOUND to have an effect. It's a balancing act. Maybe an upsliding taunt cap that raises with my level? Say, 8 at level 1 and 48 at level 50? 16 is just pathetic, especially with the seas of mobs we see in the trials. A widow can boost 255 allies with Linked Minds (not that there'll ever be that many, but the mechanic is there) - why can't I taunt more than ONE SPAWN on an 8-men-team map?
- EDIT : one last change I'd make, but I know it's gonna be very controversial... All those gimmics in the Trials? The unresistable damage, the auto-hit stuff? Flag them so Tankers CAN resist / have a chance to deflect a portion of it. NOT ALL, of course, but enough so that our one and only reason to be - surviving stuff - doesn't get taken away plain and simple. We are the ones that should get a chance to survive what no other can. THAT is the ONLY thing we have that sets us apart from other ATs. If we can't do as much damage, control as well, buff or debuff as well (and let's not bring Incarnate powers in this, you know what I mean) but still are meant to take those blows first, then don't make it so we die just as inescapably as the rest. That just ain't fair.
To summarize, I feel that the Tankers need to have their role confirmed, not repurposed. Make us tougher, more resistant, healthier, and more provoking to compensate. I don't need to be brawnier, or I'd play a Brute. I may take longer to solo a map because of my lower DPS, but I'm not gonna need to sightsee around the hospital as much either.
Right now, you gave Scrappers and Brutes very efficient tools and toys, to the point that Tankers feel like gimped versions of other ATs. Bruising was a nice touch, but we really need to be refocused on what our true calling is.
Man this got verbose fast, didn't it? (Edited for clarity) -
The contest sounds like a blast, and I'm AMAZED at what you guys did on a shoestring budget. I'm gonna spend half my week-end figuring out how you did some of those things... And the other half replicating parts of it in our base.
One thing that sorta bugs me though - in some of the videos, I see entrance portals in very big rooms... I was under the impression that it could only be placed in teh 2x2 "entrance" room. Did I miss yet another update to teh editor that would change that or did you guys just work some secret mojo I'm unaware of? -
Quote:That bites. Thank the Devs we got Taunt.Originally Posted by Sarrate
Quick look at it in City of Daata shows that it is indeed only 1s taunt. Specifically, it's a scale 1 taunt using the "Melee_Ones" table. Most other auras have scale 1 taunts but use the Melee_InherentTaunt table. The Brute version uses Melee_InherentTaunt, too.
My guess is it's a bug and not intentional. Then again, I always take Taunt on my Tankers, and always slot it with the Perfect Zinger Proc. Gives me a free psi-damage AoE, and on big clusterballs, it almost always goes off a few times... Yeah, it's piddly-squat damage, but it's fun !
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Quote:But at least we'll get them points on their 'heal others" SG badges.Originally Posted by StrykerX
That's true solo, but Tanks are normally team ATs so really the most important things are the ability to take an alpha and the ability to keep tough enemies focused on you. SR Tanks will be more vulnerable than most because if the RNG doesn't like them on the initial alpha they're going to be in danger of being finished off by a lucky boss hit. Decent healing or some resist buffs from the team will help of course, but I can see SR tanks breezing through most spawns with little trouble and then having some very nervous moments on others... most other Tankers are going to be more consistent on how much damage they take so SR Tankers may annoy Empaths more than most.
One way to help mitigate the Alpha on a SR tanker would be to get one of the teleport AoE attacks - since SD is out, that would leave Electric Melee or the new T5 Leaping Pool power (and CJ would go great with SR...) Jump in, knockdown, mop up.
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Thanks for the info. Panacea - that's the one that actually gives you back both health and endurance when it triggers right? Any idea where I could find some hard numbers on it (beside its price.)?
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Quick question for Trap masters out there - I'm iffy about procing my traps on my Corruptor.
I understand how procs work in "drop" powers like Caltrops or a Triage Beacon (not that you's want to proc the latter). But I'm less clear on how they'd work on something like Acid Mortar (does each shot have a chance to trigger a proc like Achille's Heel?) or the Drones/Poison Trap (would a Clouded Senses or a Lockdown get to go off when they go "poof"?) -
Quote:I love love LOVE my AR/Traps Corr. Caltrops/Poison trap + Entrangling grenade (for Lts/Bosses) + Acid Mortar + Ignite = dead mobs. The orange numbers are GLORIOUS. Add Full Auto for sheer ZOMG overkill. Crashless fast recharge "Nuke"? Yes please!Originally Posted by The_Ringer
No one for Assault Rifle, eh?
I know you've already rolled, but I found this to be an incredibly fun combo. KB synergizes very well with Caltrops, and you get a LOT of AoE.
It's a fun set and there is probably no better pairing for it than Traps. -
As mentionned by Silas in his amazing Traps guide, take Provoke from the Presence pool. BAM - GM on a leash.
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Quote:Actually you may very well be those days, since they fixed that issue a couple weeks back.Originally Posted by Blackleviathan
Yay I'm. Not the only one with this issue then Base editor works fine on Mac now. At least it does on mine.
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Well, I tried SR and so far I'm loving it. I joined an Admiral Sutter TF a few days ago at level 22, SK'd to level 40, and managed to hold the aggro on BOTH Duray's on my own - only died twice.
Funny thing is, we had another tank along to help, but the little b**ch had an uppity fit and left us in Skyway after causing our debuffer to ragequit the TF... With 6 people and only my Tank as a Melee, it took us 25 minutes to finish the TF, but damn, I never felt more heroic ! Frankly, I amazed myself with how survivable this set combo is. May not be "Master of" material, but definitely a fast and fun ride !
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So in regard of iTrials, SR would be far easier to globally softcap (position-wise) than pretty much any other set, correct?
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One more piece of information came my way while playing last night : the so called "incarnate softcap" (that's what they called it). Could someone explain this concept to me?
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My AR/Traps Corruptor. I made it a couple years back when every single person I asked was pretty much replying "Assault Riffle? Are you drunk?" and boy oh boy am I glad I did.
He was my first villain too, still is my only REMAINING villain and is a ton of fun on teams and solo. Now mind you, I solo him far more often than not, since on my server Redside was pretty much dead till Freem came along, but he's probably the safest solo toon I have - and he's not even IO'd.
Frankly, AR is a boon to corruptors, with Full Auto and Ignite being such Scourging gems, and traps ensures that mobs are hit harder and longer by both of those. That toon is and AoE death machine. -
Definitely my F^3 permadom Katen. Plays like a highly survivable Blaster on speed, I routinely solo +3/x6 with him. He even exemps very comfortably to 25 and such. So much burning goodness... Hmm.
My Mind/Psy dom and Dark/Sonic defender are serious runner-ups though, and I'm having a blast with my brand new and shiny SR/MA tanker.
Altitis? Who, me? How'd you figure?