NancY

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So can level 50's hang out in Atlas following lowbies just waiting for them to attack something and pounce?

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No auto-exemp, that's ridiculous in the first place. A level 50 could do that I guess, but that's why there'd be no reward for killing someone that much lower in level. Grays would give no PvP points. And that lowbie would have to attack another player first, or turn on their flag, for that level 50 to "pounce" if an invitation to PvP could be called pouncing. :/

A villain with his PvP flag off walks into Atlas Park. You can't attack him if his flag is off. No one can gank him. He and his friends walk into Atlas Park, you and your friends do not have your flags on, the villains cannot attack you, even if their flags are on.

If a villain without a flag on walks into Atlas Park and attacks a PPD officer right in front of you his flag would be turned on. You, and any other heroes there, can then attack him too. But that would also set your flags to on. Or, you could watch and see who wins. If that officer isn't alone though, that villain is getting attacked by the officer's friends too.

And flags would have to be on a timer. They'd go off after a certain amount of non-PvP-combat time.

Basically, turning a PvP flag on means you're open to be attacked, not that you can now attack everyone regardless of whether their flag is on or not. Well, you can attack them if their flag is on, just not if it's not on. But as soon as you attack that PvP On flagged player, your flag goes on too.

On a side note: today's WoW patch did away with the pet trap exploit that could in effect put a non-flagged person into a flagged PvP state.

Can and have what? Been ganked/have ganked on a PvE server? Did you do something shady like standing right by the flight master so someone clicks you instead of them, or by using an exploit like one of the hunter's traps?

Same as there, if you healed or buffed someone that was engaged in PvP combat it puts you in PvP mode also.

A) is voided by the above.

B) Those could be figured out, but nothing you're running would drag you in if a player flagged for PvP were to enter the radius. It also wouldn't affect them though. An AoE won't hurt them if you're not flagged too. Any power you use on another player of the same faction, buff, heal, tp, would put you in PvP combat mode also. You can participate or be a spectator but you can't help someone without putting yourself at risk too.

So how would that not work?

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I'm not here to condemn that gameplay. I'll have that gameplay when I choose it, and not while zoning in from a mission door, thank you very much.

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No, you're obviously NOT getting it. What you describe is a PvP server in WoW. Like our PvP zones, but in every zone of the game. Anyone of one faction can attack anyone of the opposite faction at any time.

That is NOT what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting what WoW calls PvE servers. You play the game the way you normally would, doing quests/missions, but if you saw someone of the opposite faction with their PvP flag on you could attack them. Doing so puts your flag on too though. Or, if you saw a hero and villain going at it you could join in, which puts your flag on. More people can join in as they come across you all. It's nothing like a PvP zone from here, or an open PvP server there. It's up to the individual to PvP or not, but everyone has access to all zones. You might have to watch out for guards of the opposite faction but that's all that stands in your way.

You can't get ganked in the PvE type server.

Why are people not getting it?

You still have PvE.

You just have the option to PvP too. Wherever you want.

I swear, it's like people see "PvP" and their brains lock up. It's more realistic to see villains in hero zones and heroes in villain zones than treating them like lepers and locking them away. This current mindset in segregation is stupid. It's one of the reasons WoW has 10 million players and CoX has 100K at best.


Oh, and it's not *my* job to get more CoV players. That's the job of NCNC, NCSoft and the devs here. When they pay me to get more players I'll try to do that. Until then, sorry.

*edit: content

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You go to the Tram (or submarine) and see:
Atlas Park (PvE)
Atlas Park (PvP)

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I like this idea. It keeps PvP optional while adding variety to the zones. However, I'd group all the PvE stuff at the top, have it so people have to scroll down to the PvP group at the bottom... just so there aren't any complaints about accidentally clicking on the one below what they wanted.

OR, thinking a bit more on it... have the PvP versions be accessable from OB portals, so that they could be on a different "shard" where some key technologies were circumvented and Arachnos has a bigger foothold.

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You might as well leave things the way they are now. That's a big waste of resources for what amounts to what we already have, which is PvPers stuffed away in a corner somewhere.

I'm guessing many of you have never tried WoW because you don't understand what I was talking about, and I think EG is talking about too. Heroes and villains in the same zone doesn't mean world PvP, it doesn't mean you can attack each other at any time. That's what a PvP server is.

What I was suggesting is like the PvE servers of WoW; both factions can enter any zone, but can only PvP if they turn on their PvP flag. Also, attacking a member of the opposite faction automatically turns on the flag.

Missions would need to be spread out across all zones. New contacts and stores would need to be placed, but that isn't any more work than is being suggested in this thread, especially the suggestion of running 3 versions of each zone. That's 3 versions of each zone on every server!

Heroes and villains would not be "paling around" because it's not a shared zone of the type we now have. The missions would not suddenly all become co-op. PvP could take place anywhere if players wanted to take part in it. It would not be forced upon anyone like in the current PvP zones.

As for the comments that PvPers or villain players don't matter because their numbers are so small....I'm sick of the elitist attitude in this game. Those players pay the same each month that hero players do. They're entitled to the same treatment by the dev team that the hero players receive. Alienating any subset of players, for any reason, is not good business practice. Doing that anywhere else would be construed as prejudice and unacceptable. Why is it acceptable here?

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Maybe in Good and Evil can mingle in one world, Rebels and Imperials in another, but Heroes and Villians, just, no.

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That's b.s.

Good/Rebels/Heroes - Evil/Imperials/Villains


Doesn't matter what label you stick on it, it's the same thing. If it works in 2 games it can work in 3.

That's not the point. It would be more realistic to see a hero and a villain going at it in the middle of PI, or GV, rather than tucked out of sight in the current PvP zones. You could watch, or join in. There could be big FFAs under the statue of Atlas if people wanted.

At least with the zones, ATs, and powers merged any new Issues would truly be for the One Game. No more crying that they got this and we didn't. No more players feeling like their side doesn't matter. No more players feeling like their side is the only side that matters. It really would be one game. It would level the playing field, so to speak.

Plus, it would probably make it easier to add future content. They could add any zones that they wanted, because they'd be open to everyone. The way it is now, they can't add an exclusive zone to either side because the other side would [censored] about it.

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Open all zones to both sides.

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I couldn't agree more. And I suggested a while ago that they give all ATs to both sides because it's the only way to make PvP "balanced." I understand the initial design of making CoV different, but if comics have villains with the title of "Dr." why can't a villain learn...oh, empathy? Why can't a hero be in charge of some new young recruits like...oh, masterminds? For all the complaints about being forced to follow Lord Recluse, and the freedom the hero side offers, how come no one thinks AT and power division is strange?

If it really is one game, as so many people are fond of saying whenever red side needs are brought up, then make all zones open to both factions. Give players PvP flags; on or off, change them as the whim suits you. Never want to PvP, don't turn it on.

Some mission doors could be changed. If my villain is going to a warehouse to do away with some Longbow, why is that warehouse not in the middle of Atlas Park, or Skyway, or some other "hero" zone?

Merge the markets, but only at a neutral location. Put one in an annex to Pocket D.

For all the crap flung at WoW, they did a lot of things right. Not only the things mentioned above, but also the mailing of stuff to alts.

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so how do we see whos winning? i hate the antipation.

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muahahahahaaa you can't.. neither can i...
not until voting closes... then it goes to the committee for judging.

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Well, I'm glad I did that, lot's of good entries, I took notes, I don't even have to worry about when it gets to the committee I already know who I'll be picking

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Just out of curiosity, why does it "have to go to the committee for judging"? Why don't PERC reps vote like the rest of us, at W00T? If you have final say why bother with a poll?

I don't care who wins, I didn't enter, I have no friends that entered. But I sat there, watching entries, more than once, to pick what I thought were best and now I can't help but wonder if I wasted my time because it's going to be about favorites. No offense, ah take offense I don't care, but I don't trust any of these player run contests to begin with.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.


May the Force be with you.

SWG vet rewards.


I played MUDs that didn't have vet rewards but they did have preferred membership where those that paid more each month got access to more in game. I'd rather have vet rewards.

<qr>

As usual it's just another case of sour grapes. The people that want everything for free feel the need to put down those that support the game, especially financially. Kind of like putting their money where their mouth is, y'know.

Those that want everything for free never see themselves as selfish, self-centered, or spoiled though. No, they only have the company's best interests at heart.

As if.


I love the Wedding Pack. Reminds me of a Sims add on. I'd buy every one this game puts out, just like I have with the Sims. Just like I bought every expansion EQ put out when I played it, and like I bought The Burning Crusade, and will buy Wrath of the Lich King, for WoW.

That's what business is about, making money. The people that support those companies get something in return. If you don't want to support your game companies, then don't. But please, shut up about it already. If you put as much effort into making some money yourself, you too might be able to buy an add on or expansion.

Probably mentioned already, but I changed the tux tails inside color by checking the Copy Current Colors Across Entire Body button, setting the color(s) I wanted, then un-checking the button and changing the rest of the colors.

Thanks! Only I'll be here through August which is when my sub runs out. Even if I don't play I'd like to be able to make my voice heard since I already paid for the privilege.

Isn't it trolling a troll to make a post like that? The irony, it hurts.

*Pats you on the head and hands you a goody bag*

The party has been over for a while now, but thanks for showing up, Timmy.

Looks like you've got some catching up to do. I address everything you covered, more than once now, and I still stand behind it.

As for you assertion that CoV would be a dead game by now, that's speculation. I can speculate too: Maybe if it had never had direct ties to CoH the devs could have made it really evil instead of pseudo-evil and it would have brought in more customers than CoH.

Resources have been short for 20 months?! The horror!

You sir, can suck it.

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Asking for what villains need so it could happen is what should be done. Forget the "we need it cuz they got it" angle. It's distracting.

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Remember villains have some of the best stuff in the game and I don't think giving them to heroes is desirable but it is logical with a "make us equal" argument.

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Maybe I need more coffee, but that seems like a do as I say not as I do type of philosophy. And I reading that wrong? Sounds like villains shouldn't ask for it just because heroes have it, but on the other hand giving the cool villain stuff to heroes makes sense to keep things equal.

You know, I don't care if a dev doesn't respond in this particular thread, if one would just address the CoV players at all, somewhere on these forums. A state of the CoV game address, if you will.

Posi does still refer to these games as the "City of games" (emphasis mine). If it was truly one game why not refer to it as Cities of game? Um, maybe because it's not.

They really screwed the players on this. CoV was sold as a stand alone game, billed as a stand alone game, and now because the new regime doesn't want to put so much effort into it anymore it's blanketed under the One Game flag.

More than anything, I think CoV needs its own lead designer. I don't think Positron should be in charge of both. That's right, I said it. And I'm predicting that unless it gets its own lead designer, who can be CoV's spokesman or woman, or at the very least its own liaison, it will always be a distant second to CoH. That might be good enough for some of you, but it's not good enough for all of us.

Grasping at straws.

As far as what Posi says? He can say what he wants, as Statesman before him did. Doesn't make it true, anymore than believing that everything Statesman said was true.

But, if Posi wants to make that claim, he should also back it up with a statement that since it is one game, an issue devoted to villain side is an issue that everyone can enjoy. Haven't seen him do that, have you? I doubt you will, because then he'd have to back that up and most of you won't let him.

Oh, and if you can disregard printed facts, like game descriptions put out by the manufacturer, because ignoring them suits your slant, then I can ignore anything a dev says if it's not backed up by proof. Just saying.

And as long as you can install only CoV, and have an account with only CoV, and get a character from 1 to 50 in only CoV, it's a stand alone game.

Regardless of whether or not it shares an engine and servers. How could it not? It was an expansion to CoH owners. It'd have to share the engine and servers for it to be that to CoH. If it didn't, it would never be an expansion at all, which is how I'm wishing now that they'd made it.

More like separate but overlapping.

Here's the Amazon description:

City of Villains requires a subscription to play online. Subscribers to both City of Villains and City of Heroes will have only a single subscription fee to have full access to both games. Those who subscribe to both games will receive four additional character slots per game server, and access to crossover areas from both games such as player-versus-player zones in City of Villains. Additionally, City of Heroes players who subscribe to both games will have access to the base building and base raids featured in City of Villains.

The description at the NCSoft store, which still lists the CoV box for sale:

City of Villains® is the standalone sequel to critically acclaimed MMORPG City of Heroes®. <snipped description>
IMPORTANT: Players who have purchased both City of Heroes® and City of Villains®® can play them both for a single subscription fee.

A game that does not need a pre-requiste game to play it, and is a complete game in and of itself, is a stand alone game, not an expansion. I've been playing MMORPGs long enough to know this.

I'm wondering, if someone only had CoV before they gave us the other half free, or someone that buys only CoV after that promotion ends, did/do they not get access to the crossover zones?

Bull.

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an expansion that you could play without the main game

[/ QUOTE ] is NOT an expansion, it's a stand alone game. What part of that don't you understand?

Plus, the official store SAYS it's a "Stand-alone title" I suppose NCSoft and Cryptic (since they developed it) are deluded too?

You can still buy CoV without having to by GvE.

No one has to go out of their way to avoid the other side, in fact, you have to go out of your way to come in contact with the other side. Jeez, you aren't even worth talking to you can't understand simple English.

I know they did that for a limited time, I don't think it holds true for forever.

Because my kid did have CoH, and she left for WoW. When I told her they gave her CoV for free she came back for a short time. A very short time. She's back in WoW, says CoX is boring and it takes too long to level. Maybe she's deluded too, who knows. Might be something in the water.

So you're telling me that if I went upstairs and installed my CoV disk onto my kids computer she'd have access to CoH?

Not GvE, just plain old CoV. She could play CoH with that disk? Or would she have to install a separate disk for CoH, or at the least add CoH to her account management screen?

Oh heh, look at the NCSoft store. Notice the words Stand-alone title: Does not require owning City of Heroes. Hope that's proof enough. I was going to add that as of last night Amazon was still selling CoV as a stand alone, when I decided to check an "official" site instead. Wow, I'm sooo deluded.

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Conversely, what I find sad is that some people can't wrap their minds around the fact that CoV is a standalone game, because it's thinking that's outside their box.


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Where is the evidence for it being a stand alone game?

Even if you only ever bought COV you can still interact with players from COH in the 4 PVP zones, Pocket D and the Arena. That right there shoots any claim that the game is stand alone in the foot.

I'll grant you that it was a marketing goof to give any impression that the game was purely stand alone. It should always have been made clear that it was an expansion for COH that could be played with out buying COH.

But your are deluding yourself by clinging to the claim that COV is or ever has been a stand alone game.

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Wow, do you have that [censored]-backwards. Where's your proof that it's nothing more than an expansion? The fact that a person can buy City of Villains and go home and install it, without ever installing CoH, and then can play it, without ever playing CoH, proves it's a stand alone game.

Said player would never have to see a hero player if they avoided shared zones, and the shared zones are nothing more than fluff, they aren't necessary to reach level 50.

Said player could go all the way from the tutorial to level 50 without ever having to know the CoH story line -or- see a hero. Or play a hero.

Said player would pay $15 a month to play CoV and never have to be concerned with the CoH story line -or- see a hero. Or play a hero.

Still deluding yourself that it's not a stand alone game? Maybe you need to check a dictionary then.

Oh, and there was never a marketing goof. Because they never gave the impression it was purely a stand alone game. They advertised it as an expanshalone...an expansion for CoH owners, yet a stand alone game if that's what you wanted. Selective memory doesn't make your belief a fact.

Now prove your claim, with actual facts, not made up ones.