MrQuizzles

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A couple of things:

1. I believe the LT acc bonus is 1.15 (57.5/50) not 1.16.

2. I believe the level bonus is +10% per level, not whatever it is the spreadsheet is using.

3. The I7 scaler has a discontinuity at +5/+6. From +5 to +6 it doesn't work the same way. I believe that at +5, the acc bonus is 1.5, and at +6 and higher it stays 1.5 but the critters start getting tohit bonuses again. +5% would be a good number to assume from +6 to +10 (the tohit increase that existed from +1 to +5), although I haven't tested this thoroughly yet. But while I could be wrong, I strongly recommend you assume I'm a good guesser in this case.

In fact, I'm so good of a guesser, I'm going to guess that my own +10 number above is wrong.

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Yeah, don't use the version in the first post of this thread. That's an old, incorrect version and I can't edit the post.

This version contains fixes to all the things you've mentioned.

Except the to-hit thing. I don't remember _Castle_, Geko, or anyone saying anything like that, I'll have to dig up their posts again to double-check.

It seems that the only mention of that was in Statesman's very first post about the subject. It was never discussed again, so I'm not exactly sure what to make of it.

Later in this thread, Statesman said the following:

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In order to balance the playing field, we decided to give mobs the same base To Hit value instead (this was, in fact, brought up on the forums!). Now all mobs, regardless of level, have a base to hit of 50%. The only difference between ranks of mobs (boss, lieutenant and minion) and levels is the Accuracy.

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So I'm thinking the +5 and above thing never actually made it into the final version of the change.

This is a related plug to the spreadsheet found in the post that the link in my signature links you to!

The Issue 7 spreadsheet will calculate minion, LT, boss, and AV accuracy in the level range of +10 to -10 enemies for a given defense/tohit debuff value.

When powers say "-acc" in the short help, they really mean -ToHit. There are no powers that debuff accuracy, and there are no powers that buff accuracy.

You must remember that before release, Darkest Night was nothing but a damage debuff. The tohit debuff was tacked on when the damage debuff alone was found to be lacking. It's a -damage power first and a -tohit power second.

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Can someone summarize the pros and cons of this set. So far Jacob's Ladder and Chain Induction are the 2 attacks that are lacking, correct??

So should they be worked into a build or can those 2 power slots be used for something else.

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There's nothing wrong with Jacob's Ladder. The AI is easy enough to trick into getting them to line up for the smallish cone. It doesn't cost too much endurance, and the damage is pretty good.

Chain Induction you can easily skip.

I find it quite odd that Electric Melee is more smashing damage than energy damage. I was kinda expecting it to be the other way around.

Nope, they do the exact same amount. It's kinda disappointing.

Edit: and some screenshots of SMASH! , because I care.

For those of you who were dissing ThunderStrike earlier.

Delicious!

If only you could hear what that sounds like, you'd know why it's called ThunderStrike.

Well, I got Chain Induction not too long ago, and I must say that I'm fairly disappointed.

The initial shot does as much damage as Havoc Punch, which isn't bad, but then it arcs around doing damage that isn't mine. It's not like it matters that it's not mine because the damage sucks, quite frankly.

The chain seems to be dependent the accuracy of the enemy it's arcing from, so it can stop rather quickly. Sometimes it doesn't even get to arc at all and it's just a fancy-looking Havoc Punch.

If an affected enemy dies before the power arcs from the enemy, the chain stops.
The range on the arc is just as long as the range to initiate the attack. If enemies are too far away, the chain stops.

The bit about it doing more damage when arcing from a boss than when it arcs from a minion? Incorrect. Chain Induction arcs from a Luddite Torch Bearer (Minion) to a Luddite Friar (LT) and deals 18 damage. It then arcs from the Friar to a Luddite Crusader (Boss) and deals 18 damage. It then arcs back to the Friar from the Crusader and again deals 18 damage. These enemies were lower in level than me, but that shouldn't matter. The only thing that changes how much damage it does when it arcs is the level of the enemies it affects.

Lvl 18 is usually reserved for set-defining powers. Chain Induction, while neat, doesn't quite fit the bill.

So far, I'm liking the rest of the set, though. Admittedly, I've been taking advantage of the Pawn Shops in Mayhem Missions. I don't do it for the XP bonus, I do it because setting off all the security cameras brings you a huge load of enemies that you can herd up and then Thunderstrike the lot of 'em with full fury! WHAM!

That defines SMASH!

Maybe it's just me, but the accuracy for the set seems to be really off. I've never before found myself being saved by the streakbreaker so often. Heck, the streakbreaker half the reason I hit anything at all. Overall, I find that I'm missing a very lot. I can guesstimate that my accuracy lies somewhere around 60%.

I wish I could run herostats to confirm this, but it doesn't work with I7 as far as I can tell.

Damn, that looks neat!

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Apparently, this is the maintenance that doesn't end.

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Does it go on and on, my friend?

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And people started doing it....

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Not knowing what it was...

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And they'll continue doing it...

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I can't seem to get to this. And I really would like to.

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You're using the link in my post saying that it's updated (sig links to the post)?
What sort of trouble are you having (error message? simply not connecting?)?
Is anyone else having trouble downloading the spreadsheet?

Lysosome and Enzyme Exposures work great with Dark Miasma and Radiation Blast.

Lysosome Exposure- Increase ToHit and Defense Debuffs and Accuracy -is best for: Twilight Grasp, Fearsome Stare, Irradiate, Neutron Bomb, and Dark Servant

Enzyme Exposure- Increase ToHit and Defense Debuffs and Endurance Reduction -is best for: Darkest Night, Irradiate, Dark Servant, and Neutron Bomb.

Cytoskeleton Exposure- Increase ToHit and Defense Buffs and Endurance Reduction -is also a great replacement for a regular old endurance reduction in Shadowfall.

Don't worry about it. I found a place to host it so I don't have to bother you about it if ever it needs changing again.

It's also a place that'll let me host all my ridiculous pictures
*shameless bump*

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The name Cricket makes me teeheehee for some reason!

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This reminds me, Cricket, stay the [censored] away from the Comics section. Fair warning.

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Whatever for? It's perfectly normal down there in Arkham... I mean the Comics section... pay no attention to the gyrating purple hippo! The rest of us are (mostly) harmless!

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Oh gods, that hippo... *shudders*

I didn't nerf Aid Self, do you love me, too?

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1) With the I7 changes, the drop in the to-hit debuff really isn't going to be significant.

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The drop will be quite significant against +0 and +1 enemies, actually (averaging around a 7% increase in enemy Final Accuracy, even level bosses will gain around 13%). The drop will become minor against +2 enemies, and against enemies +3 and above you'll see a very minor increase (averaging around a 2% drop in enemy Final Accuracy).

Good news!

The Updated Spreadsheet!

All values and formulas have been fixed.
When tried against Statesman's 2-slotted RI example, The Sheet matches Statesman's numbers almost exactly (the hundreths place is off, possibly due to rounding).

Also:

An updated graph that properly reflects the doom and gloom that is I7. As with the other graph, RI 3-slotted for ToHit debuffs is used for all debuff measurements, 40% defense is used for all defense measurements, and the values shown are against LTs.

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Accurcy buff was the wrong phrase... what it should have said was accuracy modifer for level. I edited it to make it more clear.

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Well, there is no accuracy modifier so to speak. What the "accuracy modifier for level" is is how enemy Base ToHit changes with level. It's not actually accuracy.

Enemies, as of right now, cannot get any sort of accuracy buff at all (unless they're using powers that have inherent accuracy buffs, like archery blasts). Until Issue 7, their accuracy modifier will be 1.

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I'd still like someone to tell me where I'm going wrong with my numbers. I'm probably messing up somewhere, but I'd like to know where and what step. Here's my post

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HOw exactly is everyone getting their i7 numbers? By the way I remember the forumla

A +3 boss has a 1.15 rank mod, a 1.3 accuracy mod, rad infection does .4372*.65*.7= .2

1+.15+.3 * (.5-.2)
1.45 * (.3)
43.5% chance to hit for a +3 boss in i7

Now, before the nerf, with boss tohit and rank tohit bonus
rad infection does 0.5187*.65*.7=.256
boss bonus=15%
rank bonus=27%
50%+15%+27%-25.6%=66.4% tohit for the boss

Correct me if I'm wrong with my numbers, but this is a huge boost from now to i7.

EDIT: Saw where I messed up in one calc, but I'm not convinced about i6 numbers yet tho, pre this nerf


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EDIT: Fixed an error. Numbers are more in favor of this as a buff than before.

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The answer lies in the fact that nobody puts only two ToHit Debuff enhancements in Rad Infection.

Statesman was, in a way, downplaying the effects of the enhancement nerf by having his RI two-slotted for debuffs.

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To-Hit Debuff powers will likely see an overall change along with defense but it's more one in predictability and an overall increase of power not a loss.

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ToHit Debuff powers will see an overall change. It actually makes them less predictable since they now scale on a curve rather than a straight line, and the overall change in power is a loss, not an increase.

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Blueeyed is correct on both accounts.

When stacking -res powers, they all get summed up and then applied. One resistance debuff doesn't affect the others.

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That can't be right for the Tar Patch stacking on itself. I know the increase was not a flat 30%. I was *more than doubling* my damage with three -30% Damage Resistance debuffs when this first hit test.

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It was a flat increase of 60%. Get two Dark Defenders together and try it yourself.

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Already tested, thanks. On test when I could three stack it myself.

Why don't *you* go test it to match what you saw?

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I did in I4 when it was on test. The resistance debuff enhancing other resistance debuffs was one of Erratic's main concerns about Tar Patch getting the -resistance. If you remember, he was very much so against Tar Patch having any -resistance.

A quick test against an even-lvl Nemesis soldier revealed that they stacked at a linear rate. Erratic's exact response to this was "at least we're spared that madness".

I think you need to re-check your tests, they seem to be either fabricated or wrong.

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Blueeyed is correct on both accounts.

When stacking -res powers, they all get summed up and then applied. One resistance debuff doesn't affect the others.

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That can't be right for the Tar Patch stacking on itself. I know the increase was not a flat 30%. I was *more than doubling* my damage with three -30% Damage Resistance debuffs when this first hit test.

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It was a flat increase of 60%. Get two Dark Defenders together and try it yourself.

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Except that you have less resistance to resist the second debuff, hence it is more effective. About 1/3rd more, I believe.

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This does not seem to be the way the effect is calculated, at least for Archery's two resistance debuffs. While damage resistance does resist damage debuffs, at least for Disruption and Acid Arrow, the calculation is done before any debuffs are applied.
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All debuffs are considered "damage" or an attack and are resisted. Dark Miasma's are "Dark Energy" so things with high Dark Resistance are less debuffed, they "resist" it better. If you lower their resistance (like by debuffing their damage resistance with Tar Patch) you can debuff things better.

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This is assuredly not the case. Tar Patch works well against Banished Pantheon for my Dark/En. By comparision, a TA/Dark's Disruption Arrow would get reamed by them.

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Blueeyed is correct on both accounts.

When stacking -res powers, they all get summed up and then applied. One resistance debuff doesn't affect the others.

Not all debuffs are resisted normally like damage. Take defense debuffs as an example. Only defense debuff resistance resists it. Same with ToHit Debuffs, only ToHit Debuff resistance resists it.

Damage debuffs are resisted kinda wierdly. An enemy has to first resist a type of damage and then also deal that type of damage, and only the damage-types for which those two requirements are met will resist the debuff while all others won't.

Resistance Debuffs only allow you to debuff some aspects, like damage, better. Actually, that's really the only thing that's affected by it.

I have never seen any evidence that ToHit debuffs can be resisted with normal damage resistance.