Misaligned

Interesting challenge. I have yet to pay more than 75mil for any enhancement. That was a LotG 7.5 and I only bought 1. Beyond that, I think the most I've paid is 40 mil. Probably less.

Me too

I have an "idea" of what I should be spending. However, I have put limiters on this guy that I don't normally - Procs at a certain level range for example. Normally I buy procs at whatever range I can get them cheapest. Also, this is my first level locked character. No waiting til 40 for example to get an IO that I'm not willing to pay for.

This should be interesting to say the least.

Update: The character in question has been moved to the market. He has everything trained and slots are according to the build posted. He is currently sitting on exactly 0 inf. He has no salvage and no recipes. He does have 7540 AE tickets that he will be rolling with after this is finished.


Still about 24 hours before I start slotting! Plenty of time to try and manipulate prices on some of these if you want

Remember though, if I go looking for something and there are none in range, I reserve the right to look lower than -3 levels.

Good luck people!

How evil! I likey!

Right up to the point where doing it was no longer worth it. And imo, that would come extremely quick if there was no timer.

View what the A Merits did to Numina's and Miracles. Now this is just my opinion about observations in a game, but it seems that the "big 3" have already come down quite a bit. I also see them being more plentiful, which is why they're coming down in price.

As soon as a 2 A-Merit recipe is valued below 40 mil, you're out money. This does not even take into account the 50 Reward Merits you burn when you convert. Those have a value as well, albeit a reduced one. We could reasonably say that 50 reward merits = 1/2 of an A Merit since "most" of the recipes that cost 200 reward merits cost 2 A merits.

So... in reality (disregarding the maths above - I'm still not sure that's right), when the price of the any given recipe drops below about 50-60 mil, it becomes a loss to convert for straight purchasing. Others may still random on that merit, and they may win, but there will also be a point where that ceases to be overly profitable as well.

See info #8:


Well - to address these in order:

The build has Mag 5 KB protection due to perma-domination

Celerity Stealth is slotted in a level 14 power with a level 35 IO. Refer to info #5:

No Stamina:

In the Mids build, I show which powers I intend to run during combat. I usually do this to get a good idea of where my recovery will be at. You will notice that I only actually intend to run Tactics. My Recovery is 1.9/s and my use is .29/sec. This gives me a net of 1.61 / sec. Not fantastic, but I will have Domination refilling my bar every 80 seconds or so - and Consume is up about once a minute. Based on that, recovery should really not be an issue. My only real concern is my end slotting in the powers is not all that great. However, using Seeds as my main form of control, I don't see the need to go "all out" if my blue bar is hurting and I have no blue skittles to eat.

Build critiques are nice for possible future alterations, but the build will be created as is.

Nought, I have you as guessing 880, 890, and 990 mil. Care to pick one?

Keep on guessing people!

Good luck and have fun!

I think a lot more salvage moves through the system than people realize.

Using this method every character I have who has tried it gets that extra slot after about 3 days. Despite the appearances of the market, a LOT of salvage moves through it in a day. On any given day I will flip all of my slots at least twice. My kids, with 11 slots each are flipping all of their slot at least twice a day. That's 220 salvage that they're moving all on their own...

I also "guesstimate" that this method will generally touch on about 1/4 - 1/8th of the actual volume that moves through in a day. Yes, it says there are 350 for sale and that number bounces between 320 and 380, but in reality, the 350 that you saw an hour ago are now mostly gone. It just has a very nice equilibrium on supply and demand.

At level 4 you have 4 market slots. Yes you can run back and forth to the vendor many times after your bids do fill. Yes you can use this to make money. However I made this guide for this reason:

Make a toon. Level it to 4. Mail yourself 50k. gain about 10mil a week on that character with no more than 2 minutes of work each time you log in - maybe twice a day. Its seriously low maintenance. Its also extremely easy to do and requires no thought beyond finding the right salvage for you. You never even have to move from that spot!

There's a ton of ways to make inf at low levels. I personally found this to be the easiest and also has a very nice gratification to it when you see sales every time you log in. Also, this method gets you more market slots really quickly - which is a nice boon. Simply buying and vendoring does not

While I personally love the idea, I was originally looking at sinking money into things that don't actually "do" anything. The AE mish slots are borderline on that, but in the end, they don't actually impact the game.

If they ever did this though... *evil laugh*

Thanks! I was not aware of this "trick". I will include it up above

Who says I'm trying to deflate the market?

Inf sinks for those who have "too much" inf is just a flavor thing. When you have 40 bil - what do you spend it on? Inf sinks! Needless junk!

Why not have some of that go back into the nether regions from whence it came?

You can see that this can turn into a nice little profit machine with very little work from you once you get it up an running. This is NOT how the marketeers make all of their billions. In fact, if you did manage to max out at say 100 a day, you would need a little over 4 years to hit the inf cap on this character if you were doing nothing but this.


This is not meant to get you billions, but it IS meant to get you up and running so you can do other things to make billions! I suggest reading Fury Flechette's guides and journals, Organica's guide to reading the market, as well as Archie's journal about hitting the inf cap in 5 days. They're all extremely informative and will help guide you on your way! This guide will provide you with the small amount of investment capital you will need to get started playing like the big boys (and girls)!


Also, if all else fails, you know that this works for you. You know that you will always have this amount of income coming in as long as you keep it up. If you venture into deeper waters, and bomb horribly (I did! I do! I will!), losing most of your capital, you still have a back up!


Good luck! And HAVE FUN!!!

If you didn't sell at least half of your stock after 24 hours, I would suggest looking at another piece. We're trying to deal in volume here, and you're only trying to sell 40 of these. If it takes more than a day to sell 20, we've got better things we could be selling!

Here's the plan: You're going to buy one kind of salvage. You're going to offer one set price and you're going to sell one kind (the same kind you are bidding on) of salvage at a different set price.


Go back to the Market and open up the salvage. Start looking through all of the uncommon (yellow) salvage. Here's the markers you are looking for:

1. Salvage that has about 300-600 available for sale.
2. Salvage that has less than 50 bidding on it.
3. Salvage that has recently sold for over 10,000. (not necessary, but a plus!)
4. Salvage that has all 5 spots as selling today.

This part is kind of a guess, so don't worry if you don't hit that perfect salvage the first time!


So start looking for something that matches our markers above.


Once you have your salvage picked out, start by bidding 500 x 10 for all 4 of your market spots.


Why 500? Well, this gives you priority over people bidding 100 or 123 or 11 or 1 and in the end, you're not making a huge dent in your profits.


Now go play the game! This isn't Monopoly! Go arrest bad guys! Go do villainous stuff! GO


PLAY!


Back? Have fun? Great!


How does your market look? Did you buy a lot of the salvage you were bidding on?


Yes? Great! Go to STEP 3


No? Don't worry! Check back tomorrow and see how you did. Some days are slow. Some are busy. Don't get down if it doesn't click immediately!


When you come back the next day, did your bids come through?


Yes! Great! Go to STEP 3


No? Don't worry! Grab what you did buy, vendor it (at a profit, yay!) and try again with a different salvage after canceling all of your current bids.

“50,000!!?? Oh my! I've never seen so much money!!”


Don't panic! Its not too hard. Here's what we're going to do. Go to the Black Market or Wentworths and start putting your market slots to work!


At this point, you have 4. This is plenty! More is better, but this is perfect for your brand new character!


At this point, you will have to put in a small bit of leg work if you're not sending yourself the 50k. I promise this will be the absolute hardest part, so don't be overly worried about it.


On the left side of the market interface are categories. Click on the bottom one: Salvage. Now expand out the Invention header by clicking on Invention. On the right side you will have a somewhat long list of all of the invention salvage that is available in the game.


Notice how some are white, some are yellow, and some are orange? We're going to start with the white ones. Start clicking through them until you find one where there are 0 bids. I cannot tell you which piece of salvage this will be, so this one's on you, sorry Generally whites will have the most sales at 1 inf. If you're having no luck, or if you just want to, you can try the uncommons (yellow) and rares (orange). Just remember to stick with the stuff with 0 bids on it!


Find one? Great! Now bid 1 on 10 of them ( Bid 1 x10 ). Do this for 4 different pieces of salvage. Get any? Well, maybe you did, maybe you didn't. If you didn't, don't worry! This is a bit like fishing. If you prefer to speed up the process, you can Bid 11 x10 instead of 1. But I find it to be about the same.


Keep doing this, collecting the purchased salvage until you can't hold any more. Feel free to cancel a bid at any time if you're not getting any bites.


Once you have 15 salvage on you (not the market) it is time to start making your starting money! Run over to the closest vendor and sell it all. Whites are worth 250, yellows 1,000, and oranges are worth 5,000. To get to our 50k starting point, we'll need to sell about 200 whites. Bleh. Yes its some work. No, its not a lot of fun. But it CAN be done if you have 0 inf on another character to share. If you can spare the 50k from another toon, do it! Otherwise, its 14 trips to the vendor for you!




Ok! Back so soon?! Great job! It took me about 50 minutes to get my 50k. Like I said, mailing it would have been MUCH easier.


Moving on!

I ran an experiment for a week. I was about to move about 200 uncommon salvage a day no problem. People generally paid an average of twice my asking price (dunno why).

It was low maintenance, but it eats all of a characters market slots.

I was able to clear about 40 mil in one week doing this on 2 characters.

I used 1 kind of salvage (per character) - I paid 500 for them (essentially free) and sold them for 15,000.

Now that you know the potential of what can be made, you can decide if using your tickets to buy salvage is worth it. Imo, its not even close

There's 186 bids. And they're selling for 180 million now. Perhaps... just perhaps... all of the evil non-flippers are hoping to get in on the action? Have you ever used a respec recipe? how many? In how many years?

Why are there 6 outstanding bids for Bat wings?

Why are there 6 outstanding bids for Bone wings?

Why are there 4 outstanding bids for Draconic wings?

Why are there 257 outstanding bids for Rocket boots? There's 155 for sale by the way. A purely cosmetic costume piece...

Why are there 26 outstanding bids on Tech wings?

Why are there 413 outstanding bids on the mid level Temporary Power: Ethereal Shift, when the other 2 (high level and low level) have a combined total of 0 bids? These all provide the exact same power...

Care to speculate about evil flippers invading the costume piece and temp power market?

And once again we can point out how a market without flippers becomes either an extreme crap shoot, or a fixed price system in which you will always pay more than any system which has flippers.

To this point, I see all of your arguments hinging on the fact that someone who wants to buy something right this instant cannot get that item for free.

And? How exactly do flippers affect this even one tiny iota?

This is not a locked system. Supply comes in from anyone, supply goes out to anyone. Respec Recipes don't just drop on ITF. Alchemical Silver doesn't just drop from Posi TFs. The ability for everyone to have a shot at everything is exactly what keeps flippers from doing exactly what you claim they're doing - raising prices. The only exceptions to "available to everyone" rule of this game are purples, which require you to kill mobs of a certain level and PvP IOs, which require you to... PvP.

This "flippant attitude" you claim to be seeing is the people of this forum trying to logically dissuade you from your high horse about how flippers are ruining the economy for the casual player.

There are 2 fundamental truths about this game's economy:

1) People have no patience. If you can use that to your advantage, please do.
2) People are sheep. They do what everyone else is doing, regardless of what is best for them. Once again, if you can use this to your advantage, please do.

From those fundamental truths, people have devised the following system:

1 - Bid on items you want to sell. Bid high enough to get some, but low enough that you will have bigger profits.
2 - Sell those items for LESS than what the going rate is. This ensures yours sell first and that you sell more.

Patience gets you the items you want at the price you want. This should be applied across the board when making purchases. If you intend to use, or sell that item, patience is generally key.

Knowing that people are sheep allows you to get 20 million for an IO you list at 11 mil because that is what they are generally selling for.

Patience also comes into play when you understand that some people don't even leave their bid up long enough to let the game process it:

Selling IO X for 15.3 mil.

Normally sells for 20,000,000.

Last 5 sold: 20 mil / 20 mil / 20 mil / 25 mil / 25 mil

Yeah... 2 sold at 25 mil... while I have 5 up for sale at 15.3 mil.

A - Clearly people bid creeping there
B - Clearly evil flippers driving up the price
C - If people were bidding 20 mil... and not leaving the bid up long enough for the game to process it, forcing them to then feel they need to bid higher... how exactly do flippers effect this? In fact, it is these lazy people with zero patience that drove the price up for about 30 minutes last night. Not the flippers.

Since you chose to ignore my previous post, I'll quote you, then show you just how foolish you're being.

There are currently 29 Respec Recipes for sale. Right this instant.

There are 179 bids.

What are those 29 listed at? I could tell you by bid creeping them and buying them all out, but frankly, they're most, if not all are listed at 151,111,150 or higher. How do I know this? Because the 2 guys who paid 180mil for them AFTER the 151,111,150 was purchased would have gotten them for 151,111,150 when they copied that guy's bid.

Next, let's just take a second here to think really hard about this. There are not a finite amount of these things sitting there. They come in, they go out. There is no in-game limiter saying "only 30 of these can exist at one time - ever. Anywhere". The 151,111,150 could have just as easily been someone who's been sitting on the high bid for a while and Joe Schmo listed his for 17,500,000 when he missed a 0. I did that yesterday. Missed a zero on a sale. It cost me a lot (in relative terms). You have no idea what-so-ever which recipe that person bought, when they bought it, or who they sold it to. Your speculation is not founded in reality any more than me speculating that all of this is actually YOU in an underhanded attempt to somehow cause dissension.

Now, let's go back and address something else for you - another assumption you made, took to be the gospel truth, and now have shoved your foot so far into your mouth that you are dangerously close to swallowing your boxers:

When I first started playing this game, no market knowledge at ALL, I bid 10,000,000 on an item I wanted to bid 1,000,000 on. Sure enough, I won that bid! Yay me! I was out approximately 2/3rds of my wealth from that mistake. That one hurt... bad.

What did I learn from that? To be careful when placing bids. I also learned to bid like this:

1,123,123
15,123,123
7,123,123

You know why? It makes me 99% less likely to add an extra number to my bids. I did that looooooooooong before I made enough inf to buy you, your children, and your dog.

That is not a "trick" only marketeers use. Tons of people do this. You'd know this - unless of course you are too inept to watch the sales on a piece of common salvage? How many do you see go out for an even number? Maybe 2%? Hell, I'll give you 10%. So in your words, anything without an even bid is being purchased by a flipper? So what... the flippers are buying 90% of the stuff from... flippers? Makes perfect sense to me that with a population of 50k people playing that the vast majority of transactions are now conducted by flippers.


Now, to address something else for you, because you're really not getting this:
People don't bid creep. They just don't. They're sheep. They don't do it. They just don't. Seeing a patern here. Hell - people like me count on that fact. Listing my enhancement at 11mil when they're selling for 20 to ensure mine sells first. I'm counting on the sheep to just blindly bid what the last person bid - and they do. I'm now up to 18 of the same enhancement sold. All listed for 15.3 mil. 16 have sold for 20 mil... cause that's what the last 5 said they sold at!

Second - WTF are you smoking?! Paid more than they wanted to pay... well DUH! I want everything for free. Reality sucks though, so I get over it.

Third - WTF are you smoking?! If they "didn't want to pay that much for it" why on God's green Earth did they continue to bid... for something that can be earned for exactly 0 inf!!! 0!!! Not millions. Not even thousands. 0!!! Respec trials take no more than 45 min with a horrible team. But they continued to bid on an item that isn't even "required". They continued to bid and somehow got suckered by a flipper, and not some random dude who said "holy #$^&! Look at that! I can sell my respec recipe for 170 million!!!" No no... it must be evil flippers.

Forth - WTF are you smoking? Using Respec Recipes to make your point? Could you maybe use a costume piece? Its actually LESS useless than a Respec Recipe.

Here's the dirty little secret you seem to have missed on Respec recipes - you know who buys the vast majority of these? Rich people. Rich people who are doing one of the following:

a) Stripping a toon to send the enhancements to another toon
b) Stripping enhancements off of a toon because they want to sell those enhancements to people like you
c) Stripping their toon to delete it to make something new.

There is almost no other reason to use a respec recipe. You can do a trial and get one any time you'd like. The recipes are there for the people who want to respec over and over and over to remove enhancements.

Honestly, I just wish those things took their very own salvage. I might actually invest the time and energy into dominating that. I mean if someone feels that 45 min of their time is worth 180 mil... wth do you think they'd be willing to pay for the rare salvage to make it?! Now that would be sweet!