MentalMaden
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Posts
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Quote:Why they are gathering is spoilery.Originally Posted by Lothic
The TV show has already told us the Wildlings are gathering enmasse and that it's never happened before. That's not a spoiler. Why they are doing it has not been revealed yet, but again I say it's probably very safe to say that the fate of the Wall, the Wildlings and the Night's Watch are all fairly well entwined.
Again I'll point out that you don't really need to know ANYTHING about the nature of what's north of the wall to understand that the Wall stands to keep "bad things out" and that it would be a "bad thing" if the wall somehow failed to do that. Tell me how interesting would this story be if we find out the Wall totally did it's job as expected and everyone lived happily ever after?
It could be a big ole red herring drawing attention away from some place that forces are needed. While that's not necessarily true, Martin has been known to make feints. Part of the story of the Wall is whether or not it is important. You can see that on the show already. The amount of attention given to the wall may or may not be vitally important to who wins the Iron Throne. -
Quote:Sigh.....It has nothing to do with the Wall being outdated. Something is happening right now that has never happened. And that's the wildlings gathering enmasse. That's why they are ranging, because they want to know why they are organizing. The full reason is a bit spoilery if you'd like to ask me, PM me.Originally Posted by Lothic
I'm open to the idea that the original purpose of the Wall itself has become so "outdated" at this point that the Night's Watch is going to have to move out significantly far past it in order to "confront" whatever the current threat is.
But even if it comes down to some kind of "twist" like that then my more generic observation that the wall has "failed" during this story is correct. -
Quote:There has been no confirmation of Jon's mother as of Book 5. As long as you don't believe what Ned says.Originally Posted by Diggis
Wasn't there a confirmation of Jon's mother in one of the stories. I want to say is was when Davos was in White Harbour, but I don't remember the details.
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Quote:You've dug in and aren't really listening to what many of us are saying. It's not just the Wall protecting the realm. It's the Wall and the Night's Watch. That's very important as the realm has almost forgotten them both and it is already playing a significant role in the story. That's why the Night's Watch are on the huge ranging this season. And whether or not this protection actually works is significant in the future of the story. Some of it already (up to Book 5) and some coming up apparently in 6 and 7. You are kind of creating a problem that some of us are saying isn't there without spoiling some of the story for others. That's what we're trying to say.Originally Posted by Lothic
I don't think it's really a "spoiler" to say that the Wall is going to play some kind of key role in this story. I got the gist of that after the first 5 minutes of the first episode.
All I'm suggesting is that they're clearly building up this "hype" that the Wall is the only thing "protecting" the happy-go-lucky peoples of the south from all the ickiness of the north. If that doesn't play itself out in the form of seeing what happens when that protection fails then one has to question what that apparently major plot thread was for in the first place.
Edit- And yes saying anything more, would spoil the show for people. Some future events are directly related to this topic that mentioning would ruin significant plot points and surprises. -
Quote:Breaking out Checkov's Gun again, hey? You're getting into spoilerish territory, Lothic. I can't really respond to that for the sake of the non readers. You are acting like this "issue" isn't addressed in the books, and it is. In subtle and not so subtle ways. Some of us readers are trying to say things without spoiling things for others. Maybe just trust us a little. The usefullness/non-usefullness of the wall is an important subject.Originally Posted by Lothic
If whatever Evil() in the north is going to threaten the kingdoms of the south the Wall is either going to be breached/bypassed by the end of the story or there's going to have to at least be a credible possibility that that could happen.
This is Chekhov's Gun where this time the Wall itself is the "gun" - if the Wall doesn't fail in some form or fashion then there wasn't much reason for the Wall to be there in the first place. -
Kind of similar: What impression do you get from TV-Stannis as opposed to Book-Stannis. I think they're pretty accurate, if I remember correctly I had kind of "he's a bad dude" vibe from him during reading Clash, and I kind of see him being portrayed as a heavy on the show. He's turned into one of my most favorite characters now, so I feel pretty good at the direction they are going with him as far as parallel with the books. At first seems like a bad guy but then winning readers/viewers over. Thoughts?
Edit- and what are your thoughts on what seems to be reduction and possible redaction of Selyse and Shireen respectively? Personally I think they will give Selyse more of a role later and likely after they recast from an extra to an established actress. The Shireen bit worries me as I think she may play a vital role further down the road in Books 6 or 7. -
Quote:And don't get me wrong, I was fully on Tyrion-love reading Clash as well. And like I said, its only a minor issue I have. I just think they could turn down the hyperbole on Joff and turn up the Lannister in Tyrion a bit. It's there don't get me wrong, I think its the strongest arc of the season. I just wish it was a little more finessed.Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
I definitely agree that they are going out of their way to make Joff evil, which really isn't necessary.
As far as making Tyrion too "good"... well, when you're surrounded by actual villains (Joff), fools (Joff & Cersei), and schemers (Littlefinger & Varys), it's bound to make you look good. Hell, I was rooting for Tyrion at this point in the book, even though I wanted Robb to eventually win the North.
Tyrion is still a Lannister to his bones, and I think it's coming through, although maybe a little bit too subtly.
This was not one of my favorite episodes, but I'm waiting for Renly's end so we can see more Brienne and set her off on her quest!
BTW, I always pronounced the "Qu" in Quarth... I guess I was wrong this whole time.
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Wanted to discuss the latest episode with spoilers......
The Tyrion stuff has been outstanding this season. Probably the stuff that feels the most true to the nature of the books. Dinklage and the people he's acted with have done an outstanding job of showing just how special this character is. That said I worry that the show is trying too hard to show how "bad" Joffrey is and how "good" Tyrion is. I think the fact that Tyrion is truely working hard to make Joffrey a success is lost a bit. Now mind you I'm doing a little nitpicking here, but I'm worried that non readers will lose the fact that Tyrion at this point is trying to be a good Lannister. Why is it important? Well I think when he finally deals with his Daddy issues it will lose it's impact if we are made to think Tyrion might as well be on the Starks side. Anyone else see this?
Qarth and Harrenhall were both very impressive. While Harrenhall isn't how I pictured it in my head I was glad they gave it the massive scale. And Qarth was much more impressive than I'd imagined and makes much more sense to me now that I've seen their interpretation. Loved the "Karth" not "Quarth" bit. We've all had it in our heads.
Maisie Williams is knocking it out of the park this season. That kid can act. Just watch her non verbal reactions to things. I'm giving her an underdogs chance at an Emmy this year if her story continues as strongly. Will be interesting to see how they compress things for her arc with Tywin at Harrenhall. I'm personally not that worked up over these changes as I felt that part of the books became very confusing with who was in control, etc. I'm assuming that Bolton will at some point take it to give us more of an introduction to him than just in the field with Robb.
Loved the episode. Loved the shadow baby. Can not wait for next week! -
Quote:More of a plot device than dragons? I think they are the most heavy handed of all plot devices, and that's not mentioning our most recent discovery of Melisandre's talents.Originally Posted by Lothic
I guess I'm just finding the Wall to be a plot device that's a little too obvious and heavy-handed to be accepted at face value. *shrugs*
That said, Lothic, there is a level of hubris attached to the wall and what could be a false sense of security. At one time there were 19 castles along the Walls 300 miles fully functioning and staffed with Nights Watch i.e. not passive protection. Over the years with magic and the Others seemingly things of fairy tales only 3 castles are being used and the Night Watch's numbers have dwindled. And this could all be important to things happening later in the series. Many even hypothosize that forces may try to bring the wall down and that could be a major plot point in the future, but that's speculation and fodder for the Book spoiler thread. So in a way you may be correct......or not. -
Quote:Martin/Turtledove mash up! Somebody call their literary agents!Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
That's an amazing premise for a novel of an Alternate History WWII!
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Quote:Ok,once again. Nobody has said things like permanently keep things out....as we've said it doesn't keep things 100% out. It's an impediment. Also: It's not really built for wildlings and what few come over have been handled quite easily by rangers and such. Wildlings aren't the problem. It's been Summer for many years and dragons haven't been around for so long people almost don't believe in magic and mythical creatures anymore. The Others have been all but an old wives tale. So much so they think the deserter at the beginning of the series is insane when he tells them he saw the White Walkers.Originally Posted by Lothic
And as I implied before whenever I think of the general idea of "let's have a wall that'll -permanently- keep the bad things out" I just think of how well that worked in real life with things like the Maginot Line.
I'm sorry if my historical knowledge tends to make me "disbelieve" the implied effectiveness of an 8,000(!) year old wall no matter what the circumstances are fantasy or otherwise.
The Maginot line wasn't trying to keep out zombies, giants, and zombie making frozen men riding giant ice spiders. Historical knowledge is great when reading this series, but this isn't historical fiction; it's fantasy. -
Quote:Just a little background to help you out Lothic:Originally Posted by Lothic
Right, walls can't hold an enemy back forever and that's PRECISELY the problem I have with this wall in this story. According to this story this wall has somehow "worked" for hundreds of years. How is it really possible that things have remained so static for so long? It just seems like the people of this story take this wall far too much for granted and it simply comes across as that much less "plausible" to me because of it. *shrugs*
Yes the waters around the British Isles can be rough. But just like in this story the Scots didn't really need to go too far out to sea in order to just skirt around the edge of the wall if they really wanted to. And like I just mentioned above the wildlings have had hundreds of years worth of opportunities to catch a calm day to go sailing if they wanted to.
The wall was built with powerful magic by Brandon the Builder 8000 years ago. The magic makes it where the Others (White Walkers) and Wights can't pass through the walls.
There is a division of the Nights Watch that constantly maintain the integrity of the Wall.
As we said before, the wildlings don't have large ships so the number that come south by water and climb over are easily handled by rangers or Northmen. They have also never been organized enough to care. Wildlings except for a few far Northern tribes do not congregate in towns, cities or tribes. In other words besides a little mischief or raiding, they don't care to come south of the wall.
The Wall was really built to keep giants, giant ice spiders, Others and Wights out of the south. i.e. grumpkins and snarks. The only problem though is they have pretty much disappeared in recent times as magic and mythical creatures seem tied to the presence or lack of dragons. While there was still a few magic users and mythical creatures around when the dragons were gone, that has drastically increased with the birth of the dragons. And that is believed to be why the wildlings are massing an army. The question is 'is it for an attack or self survival'?
The Others are also tied to Winter and this has been one of the longest Summers in recent times. That is why there is all this concern about it becoming Autumn and "Winter is Coming" and with Winter the Others can extend their range deep into the Realm. It is suspected that this could be a long one, which could mean several years (even dozens) of Winter. -
Yeah, it's not just what areas are in the episode. I'm pretty sure Winterfell, the Wall and Kingslanding are shown every ep.
Loved the Quarth/Qarth joke. I'm sure everyone that has read the books had that debate in their head while reading.
Good to see they made Harrenhall massive, I was worried they would scale it down. -
Saw a funny post on Twitter:
For the night is dark and full of.........WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT???? -
Quote:Since you are quoting me, note I did say I wasn't 100% sure (you seemed to leave that part out). It was always my understanding it was a performance issue, but I very well could be mistaken.Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Just as a public service announcement, performance is never EVER the deciding factor of what the devs will or will not do. The resources in question are development resources, not technical resources.
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If I remember correctly it takes up more system resources than symmetry and the concern is large groups of assymmetrical characters would cause significant performance issues. Something like that, not 100% sure and how its different for robotic arm or big shoulder pieces on one side.
Important? not sure how important to me. -
Quote:Short version: family drama.Originally Posted by Mental_Giant
I barely understand the history behind the two Blackfyre Rebellions... which probably means they will be crucial to the plot!
Imagine Thanksgiving dinner with the family, but with swords and ba$tard cousins. -
Quote:All very strong possibilities in my opinion as well.Originally Posted by RosaQuartz
I was about 50/50 after my first read, but on re-read, I'm about 90% certain that Aegon is a fake.
I believe he's actually the son of Illyrio Mopatis and his silver-haired second wife. I'd say there's also a chance that Aegon may have Blackfyre blood through his mother's side (I'd give it a 40% chance). Finally, I'd say there's some chance that Varys himself may come from Blackfyre stock, and could potentially be Illyrio's brother-in-law (15%). -
Quote:It seems like people helping support the game over the long haul especially in this economy is the perfect reason for giving them nice rewards. It's been hard on everyone and people have had to make sacrifices for the things they want. I see no problem with NC showing their appreciation to people who were here early and stuck with them even through hard times. Yes, I'm tier 9 (on two accounts) and yes I will "add to this conversation" all I want.Originally Posted by Virfortis
The Mecha armor is designed for VIP players that have played for a long time, or are spending a lot of money. This is completely unfair because the set will be gone soon, and very few people, especially in this economy, can afford to instantly become Tier 9 elites. If this does not seem like a "haha, you're poor" stunt by NCSoft, what would?
If you're already tier 9, you don't have anything to add to this conversation.
Since the trolls are here, I've got better things to do. NCSoft clearly doesn't want my money, so they won't be getting it.
I sympathize with people who want something, but at least these rewards aren't unobtainable like vet rewards used to be. -
Quote:No. Dwight Shultz played Murdock.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Is that Bob Saget?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Zwillinger
In Each and every person hired here at Paragon is the "A" team.
There is no plan B.
They would be the Z Team, but not enough hats. -
RIP to the worlds oldest teenager.
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My guess is they were made a while back before players started complaining about tinted pieces. It seems they are trying to keep it away from newly created stuff.
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Ahhhh, very interesting perspective. Given it's where Martin is from, it seems like there is definitely some influence. I've always thought of Dorne as a mashup of Spain and North Africa as in Moorish Spain. There is a lot written about the ASOIAF historical analogs on the internet. I've never heard an American analog like that. Very interesting indeed.
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It's also important to note they are way behind Westeros in terms of technology. They don't use iron weapons (unless stolen) and are still at best bronze age in terms of progression (and that's only a handful of tribes). So what would seem easy for a Westerosi, isn't true for a wildling.
As Atter said, the wall was originally built to keep "things" out, not people. The small influx of those that did come over was easily handled or accepted by Westeros. Now it's a problem though, because they seem motivated.