MentalMaden

I started writing up some thoughts about three different times but got pulled away for work stuff everytime. A lot of what I had to say was more for the spoiler thread though.

I think we're at the episode that was more "TV show direction" than "book direction". Which is fine. (Not a complaint) By far the least off the page episode of either season. I will finally post in the Book thread my thoughts on the changes, etc. They are all pretty positive though, so yeah, I enjoyed it.

The 8000 is when the Wall was built, the 1000 is how long its been since there were reports of Others.

And yes, Brienne was great as well as the others you've mentioned.

That kid can flat out act. You heard it here first. She has to be a front runner for supporting actress this year. Maisie and Dinklage will get Emmy's this year.

Top shelf, man. Top shelf.

Who's that at the door??????

Ok. On the Wall. (Beware, this post will meander and wander)

I'll start by saying I really don't have a single theory or even an educated bet on what I think will happen at the Wall. So if it seems one second I'm saying 'this' then the next second 'that', it's because I haven't figured out 'what' I think will happen. But there are a lot of factors to consider regarding the Wall but one that I think is most important.

Jon Snow's state of health. I think Jon's fate will have a lot to do with which direction Martin is taking the story regarding the Wall. I think we can all agree that he'll likely be alive by the time we see him again whether it's by natural or magical means. If he doesn't make it (which in Martin's world is completely possible) then I think it's safe to say that things will go sideways rather quickly. In that scenario I can see the Wall coming down/or breached and the war with the Others spilling into the 7 kingdoms. Stannis at this point is the first line of defense and likely the Northmen (even those loyal to Bolton) will join the cause and in my estimation Stannis' side and likely more will come and help the cause as word spreads. This will leave King's Landing vulnerable for say someone to ride in on dragons and take the Iron Throne. Meanwhile as Winter becomes stronger a stalemate will be taking place up North. Dany, in an effort to prove herself will go and fight for the protection of the realm. Stannis, being Stannis, will still refuse to bend the knee. His claim to be Azor Azhai will be proven wrong when he's charbroiled by dragonfire.

If Jon lives, a lot of the story will depend on how he survives. If he's resurrected by Mel he will be declared Azor Azhai reborn (whether it's true or not) at which point he will lead the nights watch and wildlings (and eventually Stannis and the North) in a war against the incoming Other invasion with Dany likely swooping in with the dragons. And becomes one of her riders along with Tyrion (my guess), yada yada yada. They take the Iron Throne as a couple. This is probably the most cliched (and predicted) endings.

But there may be another way to look at that scenario with a twist. What if Jon is resurrected, but NOT by Mel. What if he is resurrected by the Great Other? Think about it for a second. Why is Coldhands even in the story? How is he different than the Others? Or is he even different than the Others? What if Jon's dead body is taken to a God's Wood and someone intervened? What if the Great Other is merely a reflection of the old gods? What if he unites the two sides of the North and takes on Robbs calling of secession from the 7 kingdoms. Again the North serves merely as a distraction for Dany to take King's Landing. Then we'd get A Song of Ice and Fire not as a love story but as a battle hymn.

Now I'm not so sure any of that will happen. I think it will all come down to what Martin is wanting to say in the ending. Is all of the things happening right now of world changing significance? If so the wall may come down, or supernatural forces will battle it out once and for all. Or are the event of ASOIAF merely a cycle of things that have been happening for thousands of years. In that case the wall will still stand, the supernatural battle will be more wimper than bang and someone will take the Iron Throne while the list of the dead grows. And life goes on.

Now, what do I think will happen? I think likely we'll get more of the "life goes on" story. I think Jon's "death" (note quotes) will allow him to take Robb's crown. I think he will unite both sides of the Wall to the new Northern Kingdom. I think whatever conflict they have with the Others will be brief at best. I think Dany will take King's Landing ferociously and will for a time be a little drunk with power, I think she'll try and destroy the wall and the Northern rebellion only to end in a stalemate thanks to the Walls magic. I think at some point Jon's true parentage will come out and this will lead him and Dany into a truce....not a relationship. Then I think she'll finally realize that being Queen over the seven kingdoms is no different than the slavers in Essos and she'll break it back up into the Seven Kingdoms. She'll go to Dragonstone and the Stormlands, Jon will have the North, and then fill in the blanks with the appropriate survivors.

Edit- So in other words, I'm not terribly sure the Wall will server that much of a "function" of the story. It's a location, just like the Red Keep or the Sept of Baelor. While it will be a significant setting to the story, I'm not so sure it's function will server any more than it already does.

(There could be a LOT more, but I had to stop typing)

Actually Martin (in a recent interview: Link ) noted that Azor Azhai and the Prince that was Promised are essentially the same prophecy/person.

Edit: If you aren't interested in all 7 minutes (its a very neat piece though) the quote is at the very end. Interesting to note: you can see they are shipping Myrcella off to Dorne this season.

Agreed, I think an "Everybody Dies" ending is just as tired and lazy as a "Happily Ever After" cliched ending. I'm expecting bittersweet, a good mixture or sad and happy. Poignant.

I think that's where conventional fantasy wisdom takes the story and it quite possibly is the way it will end. If written well it could work. I just feel like Martin is going to put a major twist into it all. Dany, Jon and Tyrion (IMHO) are the three main characters to this story and it would seem they are all on a path to eventually meet. Will they end up allies? It seems that way. I'm not 100% convinced that Dany will end up an agent for good though. Not that she's evil by nature or anything, I just wonder how far from the Mad King she really is.

I think an interesting thought (not a solid theory, just musing for fun) is Dany realizes that being Queen of the realm is no different than the slavers in Essos and melts the iron throne and allows the 7 kingdoms their own sovereignty. Jon the North, Tyrion the West, Sansa the Eyrie and Riverlands, She returns to the Stormland and Dragonstone, blah blah blah. [Insert whatever else here] Just typing out loud.

You assume I'm saying they are somehow unsatisfactory by that statement. Quite the contrary, I admire an author that doesn't stick to tired old cliches or obvious plots. Don't get my statement wrong, Martin does things very deliberately and for a purpose, they just aren't necessarily what you or I may come up with. The Wall will obviously play a major role in the story, whether or not it's as cut and dry as you think is highly debatable (though possible). He just always seems to come up with a refreshing take on things. If you take my post to mean there is something wrong with the books or his perspective, you took it completely opposite of what I meant.

Then you don't know Martin's writing. (BTW, that's a semi joke, so don't take it as any kind of challenge. It just means that Martin likes to turn a story upside down from time to time)

Nobody is arguing that though.