Melancton

We warned them in Beta that this is where Ouroboros would lead to, but did they listen to us???

Well, now my ears are perking up. My 12+2 plan for this month is following, like yours, on the heels of my prior 12+2 plan, but it looks like I have been bumped to the 28th from what Spatch related. My reward token dropped as usual on the 23rd. (I did not even check on any badge.)

My understanding of Spatch's answer is that the 28th has become the Points date for anyone who has the 12+2 plan as it goes forward. Your experience indicates that yours also changed, but to the 14th.

Could it be that the 14th and the 28th (two and four weeks into a month) are now the dates, depending on what side of the 15th you were on previously, or is there a possibility that agitation your part, SG, got you a different date?

I am reminded of an announcement over the PA system throughout my high school in which the assistant principal said, "We are having troubles with the PA system. If you cannot hear this announcement, please send someone to the office to tell us." Not a really great plan, there.

I guess I should wait until the 28th and see what happens, as it seems that a lot of the support folks do not even know what the deal is and will give canned answers that do not apply. Oh Well

KM, time travel is one of many features in the game that pose a problem in having the Devs get the results that they want, ie Statesman and Alexis dead for sure and for good, and possibly Sister Psyche. Wade's Evil Plan, once revealed to the Player, would be easy to foil using Ouroboros to return to any number of points in Wade's life and bonking him on the head, stealing his technology, etc. Even Bill and Ted could steal his keys and ruin his day.

So there is already a tremendous amount of hand-waving there already, but if WADE using time travel is the reason his Evil Plan succeeds, you hit Ludricrous Speed instantly. He can use time travel but somehow, we can't?

The main problem with "Who Will Die?" is not that the Devs' silence on any number of plot points cannot be logically resolved. There have been some GREAT explanations offered here on the forums by folks to fill in the blanks. Had these explanations been part of the exposition in the stories themselves, they would have worked.

But the Devs just summarily had a number of things occur without any explanation at all, which is simply terrible writing. I won't repeat the list, but all manner of conflicts in motivation and characterization are raised.

What if the events of "Casablanca" just took place without Rick's speech about Paris or Ilsa's attempt to obtain the letters? Instead of a classic film with beloved characters, you would have a film where the audience is scratching its collective head wondering why on Earth what just happened took place with a bunch of cardboard characters whose motives cannot be fathomed. Sure, individual audience members could make suggestions to rescue the situation, but it would be terrible storytelling by the filmmakers.

So while your theory, in and of itself, is a fine one and makes perfect sense, I REALLY hope the Devs did not handwave our use of time travel away while making it the linchpin of Wade's plot.

Bingo. It takes effect this very month, too.

Thank you, Spatch. I had a feeling it was something odd like that.

Nah, one arrow is all it takes with her:



ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_11.pdf

Of course, the fact that Manti keeps doing it suggests something seriously wrong with that relationship...

Codewalker, you wry rascal you... there were several smiles and an LOL on my end.

I would expect research on the "Swan As Your Personal Masseuse" Ritual to dwarf expenditures on anything else in short order, but then again, I never understood Major Nelson's attitude toward Jeannie's desire to grant his every, every wish.

Redlynne, I guess I am looking at it from the standpoint of The Smile.

Even if I ultimately concur that Statesman "was 'struggling' aplenty when he was caught in that Beam Of Light ... but that it wasn't doing him any good," it is still his daughter's murderer now murdering him... to coin Nicholas Cage's famous line, How in the Name of Zeus' B-hole can Statesman SMILE at the end of all of that?? And smile so much that his face is STUCK that way once he is dead?? That is what is poisoning the rest of it for me. Because of the way it is presented, and the speed of the animation, it struck me like "I'll get you, you Evil Murderer of my daughter... wait, what, this was an Obvious Trap (tm)?? I'm DYING??? Cooool! I Welcome Death! I am seeking rest after decades of crime fighting! Fields of Elysium, here I come!" *Big Smile*

This is Bad Exposition 101.

Timing and pacing is everything. A few tweaks here and there by the Devs and I might be right with you. Some additional exposition, a better-written souvenir, a dramatic pause here, even a line of dialogue from Statesman that he will not give up, even though he dies shortly thereafter. It just strikes me that, under time and monetary constraints, they animated the sequence "properly" and it looks and sounds summary. Then the Devs, by "Pronouncement (tm)" versus exposition, have a set of "facts" that we are stuck with (smile on face, "welcomed death", etc.), all appearances to the contrary otherwise.

Many folks have tried to fill in the blanks for motivation and other mechanics, because the Devs utterly failed to do so. What you have cited is completely plausible (you have done a far better job than the Devs!), and had it been integrated into the story by the Devs in a skillful manner, I think all manner of criticism that has surfaced would never have taken place. That bloody SMILE and the "Statesman welcomed death" is just killing it for me.

Minerva, this is the archetypal "Agree to Disagree" moment here. You are citing all manner of legal jargon, and while I surely am not as fluent in that as you are, let me say that Statesman does not even meet the "reasonable man standard" for behavior, much less the "reasonable superhero standard." In the context of the entire situation and specifically the known facts regarding the recent attacks on other superheroes, Statesman is an UltraMaroon to WALK into something that is SCREAMING "OBVIOUS TRAP (tm)." It is simply not "reasonable" to believe that a superhero of Statesman's experience would do that under the circumstances.

Then again, surprise!, Smilin' Statesman "welcomed death" at the hands of his daughter's murderer and died with virtually no struggle at all. Statesman was not "reasonable" because the writers are co-conspirators with Wade in Statesman's murder. It is sort of a Deus Ex Machina in reverse.

Who Will Die?

I also refer you to another past thread about reviving Statesman. That would apply here, too.

Is Ms. Liberty still getting random strangers to bring back her evil great uncle's evil lover from the dead? Pretty bloody sad when all the heroes getting offed apparently die happily and cannot be revived by any means, but notorious assassins are back easier than you can make Folger's Crystals.

That is all very well put.

The manner of Statesman's departure, as you have summarized it, is the sticking point. The complete silence on why any standard attempts to revive him fail seems lazy. And to have Ms. Liberty, as one other thread satire put it, "have her mother die 3 months ago, her grandfather die last month and then help random strangers revive her evil great uncle's dead evil lost love" without a whisper of explanation why she chose that course of action (over reviving her kin) is just weird.

Your explanations would have been fine! The desire was to have Statesman die as a hero. There have been a number of other explanations that would have been fine, too. Officially, there were none, and we have only the inference that Smilin' Statesman would refuse to return if the ceremony were performed for him, as he was looking for peace after several decades of fighting crime and welcomed his death. There has been no official explanation why Bill and Ted could not fix things via Ouroboros, much less the player.

To coin the popular phrase: "That's just wrong." To coin Samuel Tow: "The final ruination of Statesman."

There is some fine writing in CoH, but the writing has been pretty terrible in a number of recent efforts...

To the point, I noted in another thread asking why Ms. Liberty does not revive Statesman with a ritual that the #1 reason is that the Devs want him dead. Moving on.

Okay, what about Alexis Duncan? Ahhh, errrr, ummmmm. Right, Red Widow it is!

As folks have been noting, for the Heroes to want to bring the Red Widow back is sheer folly on its face. The fact that it backfires cannot be any sort of surprise. And again, it makes the Heroes look like incompentent idiots.

But as an extra added bonus, it appears you (the Hero) have to cut yourself and use your own blood during the ceremony?!?

Yeah, I'll be taking a pass on this one, too.

It may very well only apply to new accounts "by default" as you say. In that case, problem averted.

When we get to "choices," we go back to opening up the entire thread about Statesman walking into an Obvious Trap (tm) and all of that.

Even assuming for this discussion, that the very second the Obvious Trap (tm) energy struck him, Statesman was a goner, it is very unseemly for Statesman to not struggle and to actually SMILE ABOUT IT. Dylan Thomas's exhortation to "rage against the dying of the light" and "not go gentle" comes to mind when it is the murderer of your daughter, that you moments before had sworn to take in, that is the one who is killing YOU as well. Instead, Statesman smiles as he sails away.

If he had no choice, why does she need to convince him? If the fact is that he is Shuffling Off This Mortal Coil regardless of his desires, why does she even bother to tell him to rest? Why would his opinion on resting even matter? If struggling is impossible, why does her opinion matter? The very strong implication is that there IS a choice here.

Even if struggling does not help and is useless in the final analysis, even if the odds were so impossible it could not possibly make a difference, struggle and defiance in the face of impossible odds still seems to strike a chord and evoke heroism. The defenders of the Alamo had zero chance, as was amply proven, but their struggle even in the face of that is a source of admiration and inspiration for many people.

I had thought Statesman was made of sterner stuff than the death the Devs provided him. And if he wants to stay dead, again indicating a choice, with all of the factors previously noted, as opposed to trying again to remedy them, that does not speak very well of him in the hero department, either.