Melancton
-
Posts
1262 -
Joined
-
***SPOILERS*****
Quote:I LOL'd.Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Alexis' death served two purposes. One, as has been noted, was psychological warfare against the Freedom Phalanx. Get Ms. Liberty, Statesman, and Manticore all fighting with each other. The other reason, revealed only in the villain arcs, was because Wade intended to carry out a ritual that would get him some Statesman-empowered blood (apparently not realizing that it can be purchased at the Black Market for a fairly insignificant amount of influence).
Lazarillo, as far as I know you are not a Dev.
You make as good an explanation for a number of things that can be made. Some make some sense, some do not appear to ultimately hold water, but that is more of a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" thing, and it is not incumbent upon you to defend the thinking. So thank you for pointing some things out that I had not considered, and for providing the villain content, which I never play. You explained the logic of the authors very well. 
-
Quote:Maybe he entered the Mutara Nebula.Originally Posted by Cosmic_Herald
To me, it leaves far too many holes in it.
The fact that no one can find him right now? Please, tell me that all the tech, all the psionics, all the magic out there and they can't find Statesman??
Excellent question.
Purportedly, he is "flying around to clear his head" as opposed to wreaking havoc on the perps who offed his daughter, or even investigating it.
As you say, a lot of holes. -
Quote:Did Alexis have any super powers to steal? It appears to be a gray area; she may have retired because she no longer had powers. I have not seen a definitive answer there, and there have been claims either way. I don't know the answer.Originally Posted by Yamato_Iouko
The pillar can't steal a person's powers permanently if they're still alive. The first SSA showed that.
If she had powers, I sure did not see her use any in her defense. Maybe I missed it, but I do not recall seeing any. -
Quote:Could you then explain the villains' plan to me, then?Originally Posted by bpphantom
For what it's worth, I played the arc red-side and I pulled the trigger on her.
***SPOILERS****
Other than "We wanted to do an arc with multiple missions," the sequence and venue of the actions make no sense at this juncture.
If Alexis needed to be killed (for whatever motivation, but likely to make Ms. Liberty go rogue and Statesman commit some grave error "due to grief"), then why did it need to be in Warburg? One would think that if the "extra protection" she got going into a hostile area was so easily neutralized, (see: Manticore's babbled excuses) then one would believe they could have offed her anywhere. But let's assume for a moment that Warburg somehow added some advantages to the villains.
The whole bit about the missiles and "stopping them" was really just attached to the story with a few nails. If Malaise was supposed to get captured, it sure would have complicated things if a massive US nuclear retaliatory strike hit Warburg with him still there. The possibility of the missiles launching adds no benefit that I can see to the overall villain goals--- why risk it?
Why have Alexis appear alive to our character when it is revealed "she had been dead for at least twenty minutes" before we arrived? We would have captured Malaise either way. If we were inclined to kill him for her murder, we would have done so the moment that we realized she was dead and LONG before we took him in. So why kill Alexis and then have her appear to be alive and well and merely captured?
Why does Malaise have to be a prisoner to get close to Sister Psyche? She worked with him in the past, etc., etc. If firing up the Dirge of Chaos was all the advantage he needed, he presumably could have called her up, said "I'm having internal conflict over being a villain again," set up an appointment and gotten near her that way. Fire up the Dirge, prang SP mentally as he did, he still gets his "I am a great artist" bona fides, etc., etc. and the whole Warburg gambit is avoided.
yeah, yeah, yeah, Manticore and Ms. Liberty are all honked off, we had to fight him, we will probably have to fight her, blah blah blah. Again, banged onto the story with some nails to give us something to do and appear really edgy by fighting other heroes.
"Don't leave!" Master Yoda warns. If Luke goes to help his friends, he will sacrifice EVERYTHING THEY HAVE FOUGHT FOR! Luke is not strong enough to face Vader because the training is not complete! Luke leaves, gets his butt kicked and... the Rebels still win. So much for sacrificing everything. Oh, and when Luke returns to complete his training? Yoda tells him his training ACTUALLY IS complete, and the only thing he lacks is that... he must face Vader.
The SSAs are making about as much sense as Yoda did. -
Quote:Never going to happen, Slick. You are talking like a single Rikti blade-slice could breach Positron's armor and cause an anti-matter explosion. Oh, wait...Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
After reading the chapter three and four spoilers I don't expect to be subscribing in March or any other time just to have access to the story.
The silly thing is that we're "shaking up" the establishment so that we can delete Jack Emmert's Mary Sue and replace him with Matt's Mary Sue. Clearly, that's a better situation than what we have now. (Do I need to put sarcasm tags in?)
What happens the day that Matt gets kicked upstairs or leaves Paragon Studios? Do we start shouting for Positron's blood? I suppose that's when we REALLY shake up the status quo and use Positron's power to blow him up and the entire city along with him. There won't be anyone more powerful or more important than my character after that, and the world will be a better place for it!
Well, no worries, apparently it would not level the entire city, it would just vaporize Posi again, but as long as the Dark Watcher is around, he can fix things faster than you can say "Padme Hung."
As I mull it over, I cannot come up with a better reason to kill Statesman, keep him dead and remove him from the game than your theory that his association with Jack is odious to the folks who have the power to make it happen.
The problem is, they have continually depicted Statesman as a self-righteous dill-weed, utterly ignoring the possibilities Troy Hickman introduced, so are we supposed to be sad about it? Perhaps that was part of the plan as well.
There is a tremendous disconnect between the History of Paragon City backstory materials (and perhaps the novels, which I have not read) and the portrayal of Statesman by Fish and other subsequent writers. The Statesman I learned about in the backstory does not deserve the short shrift he is getting and I am not happy to see him depart. Dill-weed Statesman, who was a straw man set up to be knocked down by the "edgy" story-line, I will not miss. -
Quote:From what has been said, Rocket Board is faster than Fly and it does not take a slot, and you can use it sooner on a hero. The vast majority of my new heroes have it now, and it is very efficient. All of my heroes take Hover, as that is my preferred combat mode, so the combat aspects of Board v. Fly are moot.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Honestly, it does kind of bother me that all these cool travel concepts are getting introduced as purchaseable travel powers, as if suggesting that my fliers that match them shouldn't actually take Fly at all. Especially with a flying carpet, it seems like we can jump around on the thing as though we're on the ground and animate all our powers accordingly.
The only reason to take Fly now is "concept," or if you are muling an IO that will only go in a Travel Power. If the Board will not work, due to it being ugly, you preferring your toggles stay on while you fly or your hero needing to actually up-up-and-away, then Fly it is.
The extra power slot with the Board opens up a lot of possibilities. -
Quote:True enough, but Malaise is powerful enough to kick SP's rear all over the place psychicly now--so much so that we need to rescue her. (was he boosted and/or possessed by someone more powerful? I dunno.) That is why I figured that with that kind of ramped-up ability, distance would not be a factor, since it isn't for the very powerful psychic folks in the game.Originally Posted by Lazarillo
Malaise isn't really a typical psychic, though. He doesn't do the normal telepath thing. It's not hard to imagine that part of his general trick and illusion repertoire would require being nearby. He might be able to read her fears from far off, but he can't necessarily bring them to life at unlimited range. Phantom Army can only be summoned so far away from the caster, after all.
It is very unclear and odd. -
***SPOILERS******
Quote:I am trying to follow the rationale of the story, and it is just confusing.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Yeah, because 'Hey, we're invading to sort out the head-case!' is a sure fire way to...uh...get the head-case to unload all those missiles on everyone, not just Paragon. Because hey, he's a fruit loop!
And yeah, Clockwork King being probably third most powerful psyker in the world (1st Penny, 2nd Psyche, 3rd Kingy) probably helps. Although I do feel the Clockwork got left with a rather large gap in their explanation (why lightning bolts etc?)
In "Goldfinger," our bad guy gets supplies from a number of Mafia types. They come to his headquarters to receive payment. He tells them that they can get $1 million today, or $10 million after he pulls off his heist. They are skeptical. Goldfinger explains his plan in detail. One guy is skeptical, and he and Goldfinger step out of his headquarters office. The guy is driven to a remote location... and killed!
Meanwhile, Goldfinger does not return to his headquarters office, but rather KILLS ALL THE OTHER MAFIA TYPES.
Um, what was the point of the offer? Why not just kill them all and be done with it?
Oh yeah, Goldfinger had to explain the plan so that James Bond could HEAR IT EXPLAINED.
Maybe something like that is going on with Marshall Blitz and Alexis' murder, but for the life of me, I cannot figure what. It is ham-handed, illogical storytelling from where I sit, and it does not make sense. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
So no, Arachnos can't be held accountable for Blitz. He's not with Recluse anymore. Do you blame your car dealer when you strip the bolt on your oil pan?Reading through the thread, there have apparently been some developments in Warburg as such.Quote:Originally Posted by Lazarillo
To be fair, in that case, Recluse can't exactly protect Warburg and go "Nope! Sovereign nation! Leave him be!" Basically, Blitz is either acting as a rogue agent (in which case, Blitz would be crushed in Melancton's scenario), or he's a protected official (in which case, the entire Rogue Isles would be crushed).
***SPOILERS****
I am willing to suspend a lot of disbelief, given a bit of reasonable rationale in a good story. In a real life scenario, some rogue agent pointing nukes at us and making threats the way Blitz did would likely get attacked by the US military and neutralized. Double if he was making threats. Off the chart if he murdered the ambassador.
The underlying story, however, does not even make much sense. Alexis was "dead 20 minutes before" our characters arrive to make the rescue attempt. And then Malaise surrenders. In order to get, what, close enough to Sister Psyche to activate the latent Aurora Borealis? This in a world where the Clockwork King can animate thousands of individual minions from Far Far Away? Close proximity does not seem to ever be needed for this psychic stuff.
At the moment, the underlying story seems very arbitrary. It makes it tough for me to accept the "sovereign nation" and "Blitz is a rogue" cards being played. Of course, I am not too happy that my hero gets to stand around unable to take action while all the murders and such take place, which does not help matters in the enjoyment area.
-
Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
EDIT: Oh sorry, forgot. Dark Watcher is mad at Statesman too, for completely irrational reasons like not being able to find him in an infinite number of Earths he might be on when DW was really the only one of the Phalanx who could even travel between dimensions.Well, what is the story there? As far as I know, only the Dark Watcher could travel between dimensions at the time he became stranded in some horrible other dimension. In the CoH comics, he simply returned. How did that happen?Quote:Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
Might wanna read into that a little more.
To the point, he blows his stack at Statesman out of the blue: "...you left me wandering the outer dimensions and sacrificed Hero 1 to the Rikti." (ftp://ftp.cityofheroes.com/comics/topcow/comic_20.pdf p.17)
As far as I know, there has been no further elaboration or explanation. What was Statesman supposed to do that he did not? (And as far as Hero 1 goes, Hero 1 knew what he was getting into leading the Omega Team, so he was not "sacrificed" by Statesman; he volunteered.)
If you can shed some light on that, please do. -
You know, all of this illustrates how terrible the writing for the game has gotten. The Devs must think it is wickedly clever and/or dramatic, but it is maddenly inconsistent and lacking in logic.
The Rogue Islands is presented as a sovereign nation, like Latveria, and although it is headed by a villain who sends his uniformed super-powered underlings into the U.S.A. to commit crimes, "there is nothing we can do about it."
The Rogue Islands also have missiles pointed at Paragon City. The U.S.A., of course, is fine with having pip-squeak nations a short distance away point missiles at us that can devastate a U.S. city. Just ask the Cubans. We are totally cool with that.
***SPOILERS****
So when the official U.S. Ambassador to negotiate the missiles issue goes to the Rogue Islands and is "kidnapped" and murdered before you can say "Jack Robinson," (and our contact says she was dead 20 minutes before we even arrive to rescue her) and the missiles are being armed for launch, the U.S.A. is still totally fine with that. Why would we take any official action against the Rogue Islands? It wasn't as though the actual leader *wink-wink* ACTUALLY KNEW *wink-wink* that Marshall Blitz was doing any of that. And since they are a SOVEREIGN NATION, we can't legally do ANYTHING to them.
Meanwhile, Ms. Liberty has been sending super-powered uniformed Longbow folks into the Rogue Islands. Since I have never played City of Villains, I don't know what their exact mission or deeds are, but it seems pretty obvious the Devs are playing along with the party line that their mere presence there is "illegal" and that Ms. Liberty is a such-and-such for sending them.
The very negative depictions of Statesman and Ms. Liberty are at odds with the History of Paragon City backstory feature on the CoH website. There, Statesman is a noble hero who saves the day time and again. The worst I see there is that two Rikti ships crash into the city after he blows through them in the opening minutes of the initial Rikti assault, which he notices and changes his tactics. A bad mistake, but that is about it. Ms. Liberty is chosen by Hero 1 to bear Excalibur until his return. Since he realized he was going on a suicide mission (and purportedly, Lady Jayne was his love interest, so that angle is not there), he was, in effect, entrusting the sword to her. Apparently she had qualities that made her worthy of the honor... but not so's you could tell from the way she acts in the comics and the game.
I agree with those who theorize that the deaths of her mother and Statesman will all make Ms. Liberty conveniently bat-guano crazy and turn her into an overt Vigilante, and she will REALLY go to work, killing everyone and everything she thinks is responsible. Since anti-hero Manticore was the darling of the CoH comics and he was running Wyvern, a vigilante operation if I understand it correctly, I don't see why they have to add Ms. Liberty to the roster of those taking the law into their own hands.
So Statesman is depicted an arrogant dill-weed goody-two-shoes over and over, and he is about to die. Ms. Liberty is an unpleasant, petulant, superhero-princess-mean-girl who will be Going Rogue. Why are we supposed to care about these developments? The Devs are going out of their way to make them creeps nobody would like... is the idea for us to simply shout "Good riddance"?
What lousy writing. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Melancton
Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case.Yeah, you got nothing.Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Innocent until proven guilty - all heroes should know that
You are arguing just to be arguing. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I am - what are the examples of Ms. Liberty being unpleasant in the game?Quote:Originally Posted by Melancton
Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite me
". That would explain why you don't see that as any big deal.Dad: Good morning, Golden GirlQuote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
I've offered my parents and grandparents plenty of backtalk when it's been needed
Golden Girl: Bite me
Dad: Thanks, I needed that!
You grew up in a Hollywood sitcom, did you?
I have a better idea. Why don't YOU make the case that the portrayal of Ms. Liberty is that of a noble, pleasant, co-operative and self-sacrificing superheroine and provide copious citations for it?Quote:Let's see some more then, if there's so much of it
Then we can make frivolous non-sequiturs and demand further proof.
Ms. Liberty's portrayal is revolting. I do not care for it. Since you think it is wonderful, make your case. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Melancton
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7
Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about?
Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language!
Ms. Liberty: Bite me.
(The above gets Double Word Bonus for depicting Statesman as a prissy Oh My Rosebud Ears old fogey as well.)Ah, you typically told your grandfather "Bite me", eh? Perhaps it was "Bite meQuote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
So backtalk to your family is forbidden?
". That would explain why you don't see that as any big deal.
GG, those three were the tip of the iceberg, and your response tells me you are arguing just to be arguing. -
Some examples of Ms. Liberty as a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl:
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_16.pdf p.7
Ms. Liberty: What the HELL are you talking about?
Statesman: Jessica! Watch your language!
Ms. Liberty: Bite me.
(The above gets Double Word Bonus for depicting Statesman as a prissy Oh My Rosebud Ears old fogey as well.)
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_17.pdf p.4
Ms. Liberty:"So Granpa finally left me the keys to the city. It's about time!"
ftp://ftp.coh.com/comics/topcow/comic_18.pdf p.24
"I always figured your arrogance would be your undoing" says the villain to Ms. Liberty... even the baddies have her pegged.
It is a lousy depiction. I do not care for it. -
Quote:You can't be serious.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Got any examples?
""
-
Quote:So what is to keep the current writers from revealing that Hero 1 was so arrogant that next to him, Statesman was Saint Francis? Are you relying on the History of Paragon City? That is routinely ignored regarding Statesman. Are you thinking that Hero 1's time capsule letter will keep him from being a pompous @#$%? The current writers could decide that this was his absolute best day and that usually, he is disdainful of everyone else.Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
I keep hoping that Hero 1 gets unRiktified, comes back, reclaims Excalibur from her, and then tans her backside with the flat of the blade until she'll think of him every time she sits down.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Why would a noble hero give Excalibur to Ms. Liberty for safe-keeping? She is depicted as such a mega Bee-yotch 24/7 that I cannot imagine what prompted him to do that. Perhaps he will turn out to be an idiot. He would have to be to give that storied sword to what she is depicted as.
It is an insult to one-dimensional characters to call the way the Freedom Phalanx and Ms. Liberty are scripted "one-dimensional."
-
Quote:Well, who WOULDN'T dislike such a transparently-scripted no-redeeming-value superhero-princess-mean-girl? Statesman gets the same treatment for the most part.Originally Posted by Benchpresser
If there's one thing the SSA's have proven it's that the entire Freedom Phalanx is a bunch of dimwitted chumps... the entire team ought to be wiped and heroes with actual brains be brought in. I mean besides Miss Liberty, the Regulators are a better team!
(ML seems to have inherited her grandpappy's talent for arrogance and holier-than-thou attitude- I seriously hope the next recipient of the Well's power is someone who won't be scared into impotence by it- I vote Back Alley Brawler...)
The writing is just getting worse and worse.
I finally played Episode 3 and 4 of "Who Will Die?" over the last couple of days. It is poorly plotted and poorly scripted. The characters are mostly cardboard cutouts or straw men/women who are set up to be knocked down. The key plot point in Episode 4 does not even make any sense.
Troy Hickman is probably shocked that he is thought of as "the good old days" in CoH story-telling.
-
Quote:At the moment, Charlie Brown would beat his incarnates. With his rock.Originally Posted by Premonitions
He's just mad that Casey Jones would beat his incarnates. With his hockey stick.
-
So was it Malaise or Penn Jillette that we were fighting?? And if the latter... where is Teller??? *ominous music*
-
I tend to rotate between a handful of heroes and play them thoroughly.
Initially, I was clearly not an altoholic; I was a piker.
But after playing for nearly 7 years, I have 10 lvl 50s, another half-dozen who could ding 50 at any moment and some heroes that I realize that I have not logged onto for six months or more.
I have probably around 32 heroes total now. Does having that many qualify me as an "altoholic" or am I still a piker because of how long it took to get that many?
-
Quote:Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
Reminds me of a SNL skit...Actually, this picture made me think of that SNL skit.Quote:Originally Posted by Golden Girl
-
Quote:Well, they ARE demons. Consider the source.Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
damn grunting
-
Quote:I think you are right, Scarlet. Zwillinger is very interactive and attentive, and the huge growth of the thread condemning the spandex-butted CoT costumes got the attention of the Devs, and the Devs, bless their hearts, have demonstrated that they will try to do right. At the moment, they think the Well is Compelling Story-telling, while we are objecting that it derails the freedom of cosmology that was one of the most attractive features of CoH.Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
I prefer to give Zwillinger and the rest of the CC team the benefit of the doubt. They'll come back from the holiday break and realise this needs to be managed better and I trust him to realise this is a big problem and to speak with the people that need to know and to come back to us.
What is surprising to me is the possibility that the Devs may truly not understand that "the little foxes spoil the vineyards." Getting two-shotted in the trials is like a Yellow Dawn with Hamidon: the playerbase will figure a way around it in time. But if what is two-shotting you is, in the player's estimation, ridiculous, then you just honk the player off. A sniper, say, with XYZ bullets shooting you from a tower is one thing, a "numpty with a rock" offing your Incarnate self is quite another. Do they not understand that?
Perhaps not initially.
I tend to feel, as you do, that this will go up the food chain, and, allowing for the inevitable passion and rhetoric, the meat of the matter will be considered. -
Quote:/CheersOriginally Posted by Dark_Respite
So ostensibly, yeah - at least as far as the current roster of seven goes, everyone knows who they are.
"You want to be
Where everybody knows your name..."
/Cheers