Manchuwook

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Target flip-flop due to multiple taunts should be a valid strategy for a team.

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Sure, then Stalkers should get a % chance to placate with each hit they get as well, scaling with the amount of endurance it costs as a guildline. It works essentially the same, except in reverse. AFter about 5 or 6 hits, you shouldn't be allowed to hit the stalker again, and have to beat on something else. Oh, and make placate AoE instead of single target.

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Seriously? Stalkers should get a chance to AoE placate and pull off AS at their leisure because MULTIPLE tanks might be able to prevent ONE person from doing anything but RUN AWAY or ATTACK THE TANK?

Think about that for a second...




-Taunt provides the tank with no extra bonuses, it just stops you from completely ignoring them.

-Taunt can still be broken by RUNNING AWAY or killing the tank (yes, it's quite possible in a team setting).

-At most, I'd say two tanks could "Ping-Pong" one person with any consistant success, and even then you're fighting with a 1:2 ratio, as such that one person should be hightailing it or dead.

Its only viability is in a team setting, and in that case it would be one or two tanks doing what they were made to do (protect the squishies from the most dangerous opposition) or a team full of tanks ping-ponging only half the opposing team... leaving the other half to slaughter them.

If the odds were better, (IE 2 tankers being able to lock half a team between them using multiple taunts) then it might be overpowered, but really, it's not like a hold... you can run away, wait till it wears off, get out of the taunt's AoE range, use a power, call a friend... there's enough options available in a team setting where ping-ponging with taunt is a worthless strategy in an even team setting.

The only time this might be "overpowered" would be in a drastically skewed match, like a 2 on 1 (or more) setting, and in such a case it SHOULD be a worthwhile tactic.

As a side note, you could give break frees some taunt resistance if buffing up taunt feels dangerous (Even though people would be stupid to use it to break out of taunt, when you can just back around a corner... ).

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You stress that this is in a team situation and then fail to take into consideration what your teammates would be doing in the process. All it would take is 2 tanks and a controller and any team could be easily decimated. Tank 1 gets down to half health, Controller snares/AoE holds, those that aren't hit with it are taunted off tank1 by tank 2, tank 1 heals up/gets healed, tank 1 taunts off of tank 2, controller holds/sleeps/confuses any who aren't taunted.. rinse repeat, dead team of anything. And the ducking behind a building is not an option, because if it is the healer that is taunted (of which there are very few in CoV) they will no longer be able to heal. If it is a brute or a stalker, there goes the DPS to take out a tank, and if it is a dominator.. who am I kidding, nobody PvPs with a dominator.

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Target flip-flop due to multiple taunts should be a valid strategy for a team.

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Sure, then Stalkers should get a % chance to placate with each hit they get as well, scaling with the amount of endurance it costs as a guildline. It works essentially the same, except in reverse. AFter about 5 or 6 hits, you shouldn't be allowed to hit the stalker again, and have to beat on something else. Oh, and make placate AoE instead of single target.

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Logged in to check my build some more and to mess around in RV. First I tried to tackle Mako along with about 16 heros and Mechs. We got him down to about 1/7th health and he went into a Super Mako MoG. Absolutely, 100% could not hit him no matter what ANY of us did - and he regen'ed all the way back to full Health. OK we say, lets try again since the recharge on that thing has to be pretty huge. Nope, same thing every time we got him below 25% health. Pretty freaking ridiculous. Finally we all gave up.

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ROFL, now you see how villains feel when they fight regen scrappers

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It's not close enough.. Mako needs also to jump around like a mad hare on a mixture of PCP/Amphetamines and Captain Crunch.

Regen scrappers are nerfed and noone plays them because they suck so bad.




































Ignore the man behind the curtain, too.

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Has anyone checked the Scrappers? I have yet to hit one. 12 misses my first day out with dbl acc.'s in my attacks and no hits at all on a Scrappmeister. Everything ELUDED! At least it would be balanced. But I gotta say, not even a PP in MoG mode got off that much.

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All I can say is 'Endurance Drain'. If you have powers that can do that and you run them out of blues, then you are set.

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If the "taunt ping-pong" isn't acceptable as a tactic to use in PvE, then why isn't getting multiple Assassin Strikes within a few seconds? After all, we really don't have any defense against three or four stalkers coordinating their AS to hit at the same time. Why can't tanks use group tactics with other tanks?

Now it seems that only damage will cause an interrupt in a stalker's AS. Well, I can certainly tell you this...getting hit with three AS by coordinated stalkers time and time again isn't fun, either.

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Exactly.

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What do you mean 'exactly'?! This is apples to oranges in comparison. Stalkers don't have nearly the hitpoints or defense a tank has, and honestly, if the tank is seriously talking about being able to survive 3 assassin strikes simultaneously.. they need to have their head checked.

Ping-pong taunt is NOTHING like an AS. An AS you can heal up from, and only goes off once (maaaaaaybe twice) during a fight, meanwhile you could taunt until you are blue in the face or the sun sets. There are plenty of resists for damage, but not nearly enough against taunt.

Sure, but taunt doesn't go away if you are hit or the taunter is hit by someone else. Placate doesn't even do this, unless it is one-on-one. But then again, why would a tank need to even taunt on one-on-one unless he is distracting someone until the blaster arrives... at which point, they can't retarget to the squishy.. e.g. "I Win Button."

Perma-taunt is rediculous.

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If the "taunt ping-pong" isn't acceptable as a tactic to use in PvE, then why isn't getting multiple Assassin Strikes within a few seconds? After all, we really don't have any defense against three or four stalkers coordinating their AS to hit at the same time. Why can't tanks use group tactics with other tanks?

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Ah, the old stalker defense. Tanks, last time I checked, had more hitpoints than stalkers, and therefore can handle their own aggro just fine.

When confused and then taunted/hit with gauntlet, their name is still blue.. does that mean I effectively can't attack anyone for the next 2 minutes?

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how come when i use placate against a scrapper he just keeps on coming? if he has assault isnt it just supposed to lessen the placate time, not totally get rid of it?

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Placate is not autohit, and gets knocked out if you are DoTted.

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While it's cool to see the signature heroes and villains, I won't be bothering to attack them. There's no point, they're impossible to take down. Before last night's CoP, we had 20+ heroes attacking Lord Recluse, all the heavies in the zone, and who knows how many pets - and his life bar barely budged. I think I saw it drop to about 80% once. Lag was horrendous with all the power effects being thrown around. Either tone these guys down or people will just ignore them.

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I agree that lag is a big concern for this zone. With 2 or 3 Signature AV's/Heroes spawning at a time with over 70K HP (note that is more than Hamidon), it takes a whole lot to take them down, even with all the Heavys on them. There were a couple of nights where I was teamed in RV and got all the badges except Scirocco, so it is possible to take them down. However, needing to turn graphics quality down to bare minimum in order to play in the zone cheapens the experience. The devs did an absolutely wonderful job with the design of this zone. It's a shame that many will need to experience it at extremely low quality (if at all).

Hades brings up a good point about base camping too. The bases (especially the villain one) are in need of serious re-work to prevent camping. I think it fair to say it's a given that opposing groups will be camping each others Heavy pads to prevent them from taking control of the pets.

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See, me personally I would just get a whole bunch of shovels and force The Council to dig and underground interweb underneath AP, then have all the exits all over the place. We all know the doors are in place for the zones.. just have folks pop out of there from underground. Just have it so heroes/villains can't open the opposing side's door and add a hellacious -perception buff whenever someone walks through it to lose targetting. This shows the level of arachnos/hero infiltration so I don't think it would lose the immersion. Give both sides 5 exits so it would take some coordinated effort to camp them, and even have the pop you out a random door whenever you exit the base. Obviously it is already in place since they have the dimensional door in the same zone, twice.. y'know. Just trying to brainstorm here. I just like having a secret escape hatch for the villains. I don't mind so much the Heavy camping, but at least you have the option of turning around and doing something else.

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However, if there are folks that are spamming AoE snares, Holds, Confusion, and all the other nasty stuff to keep me from running out, I fully intend on thinning out the ranks.

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I think either thing-- base camping or TP foeing-- is bad sportsmanship. When I finally encountered the entrance to the Villain bae, I turned tail. I don't want to be someone who exploits. TP Foe and hit me all you like, but DON'T just throw me into a drone.

Anyways... that's one opinion. I don't think either act is justified and it disappoints me that players think that's winning.

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In my mind, one leads to the other. Base camping involves TP Foe into a mass of heroes that already have powers queued up that you have no chance of escaping. Base camping seems to be more despicable because the folks doing it actually get the reward of reputation. Droning is an act of desperation with no reward, but yields the same results. Someone has to run back.

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btw you got it backwards, the heros are usually the ones tping villains into drones

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Hmm, not on my server (Victory), in Siren's Call they villains do that a lot...

It's no big deal, but I think it's unsportsmanlike. Feeble and weak. And I mean that for anyone: Hero, villain, what have you.

I hope they figure out a way to make it a 'chain reaction' where any Hero who does this winds up going to the hospital.

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I have one reason and only one to TP Foe folks into drones. When there is a large group outside the base camping it. If it is just one or two people, I will gladly run out and fight. However, if there are folks that are spamming AoE snares, Holds, Confusion, and all the other nasty stuff to keep me from running out, I fully intend on thinning out the ranks. Only reason why I didn't do it in RV was because the toon that has it fully slotted is 36.

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Can't really say what hasn't already been said. More heroes than villains in RV, but then, what else to heroes have to test? I'd wager a guess that ALOT of the villains are instead messing with Patron Power arcs and Mayhem Missions. I'm sure when more and more villains eventually hit 50 this will even out quite a bit. At least, I hope so.

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The only the the Heroes are testing is their mad base camping skillz. I have not once seen the 'Freedom Phalanx Reinforcements' gold letters show up.

Hey Devs, if you log into RV right now (2330 GMT) on a villain, you will see exactly why rewarding folks with Prestige for kills will keep villains from playing in this zone.

64 heroes vs. 17 villains. On a Friday Night. Peak Playing Hours.

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I've noticed that very little actual testing could get done in the test server. I've tried every day at all different times and every time I'm in Recluse's Victory there is some annoying person that thinks they have to kill me like its the regular game. Then on top of it I return to the same area to continue and they kill me again and again, talk about annoying. Come on isn't it obvious when I'm trying to look around and not even fighting back that I could actually be testing something? The test server should really have some restrictions put on it.

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You have a good point, but they can't really put restrictions on the Test Server. Conditions there need to replicate as close as possible conditions on Live.

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If what we see in RV is what will be in live, RV will be totally devoid of villains.

You're right, it was a troll.

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What exaclty is your post? A cry or a troll? Certainly not very constructive IMHO.

Quick list of things that may need review in RV:

<ul type="square">[*] Mission contacts - where are they?[*] Base camping - will probably mellow down as more higher-level villains pop up with PPPs (PPP discussions are in other threads).[*] Brute Furry - needs a PvP fix (known issue)[*] Heavies - too much damage? Too camped? Maybe need a despawn timer as suggested so people can't hog them?[*] Heavy AI - bugged? Needs investigation.[*] Round speed - too fast? Need less heroes and/ or more villians to be sure.[*] Prestige bonus timer - 5 minutes or 10? Working as intended?[*] Framerate after leaving RV - definitely something is up. Perhaps there are some residuals in RAM or VRAM?[/list]
Didn't have time yesterday to go on Test, but I'll give it another pass tonight I think.

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<ul type="square">[*] No PvP Mission contacts... only one goal in the zone.[*] Base Camping will not go away any time soon... Unless the villains can actually fight back and win.[*]Brutes are not always furry, I don't think we need a fix for that. However, I don't like how the scaling goes for gathering fury.[*]Need more heavies. Not just spawn points, but how many spawn apiece. I don't know what the dev's think the average population of the zone will be, but 3 is right out.[*] Heavy AI uses Pet AI for MMs, which I'll agree is bugged. On both accounts.[*]Round speed does not allow much time for fighting back, and is certainly not to scale as Siren's call.[*] Prestige bonus timer should be shortened. I don't treasure the thought of being a potato being farmed for prestige by heroes.[*] Framerate issue. Even on a 7800GS, I was even getting flipbooking. Newest drivers, 2 gigs of memory, 3400+ 64bit proc.. yadda yadda.[/list]

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One thing that always turns me off to going to Warburg in CoH when Im leaving a toon in the 40-50 range...it takes so long to get there from pi. And my 50 is parked in the Hive, so thats a long hike too. This is one thing that was well done about CoV...all the gates to the PvP zones are in the according PvE zone.

Is there anyway we could do one of the following...

1. Make an enterance to RV in pi
2. Make a gate that takes us to atlas from pi
3. Move the RV enterance alltogether

Another complaint about having it in Atlas is lag, especially near the statue. Its like putting it in Talos.

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Ever try Base Teleporter Pads?

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ok to defend the OP on this... I'm not sure how you have a level 50 tank and not know that the Telepads in COH are crap compared to the Pads in COV. We have way more zones then they do, and our telepads only go to zones that are really crappy. Yeh you can TP to the hollows to get to Atlas, but what about the return trip? Villians can use thier pads to go to every non PVP zone. I think heroes should be able to as well.

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Base --&gt; Crey's Folly --&gt; Crash Site --&gt; PI

...doesn't take that long

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nope and couldnt have said it better

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Yeah.. but CoV has less zones altogether. You have as many hazard zones as CoV has regular zones.

Mercy &gt; Port Oakes &gt; Cap Au Diable &gt; Sharkhead Isle &gt; Nerva Archipelago &gt; St. Martial

Compared to:

Atlas Park &gt; Galaxy City &gt; King's Row &gt; The Hollows &gt; Perez Park &gt; Skyway City &gt; Steel Canyon &gt; Talos Island &gt; Independance Port &gt; Terra Volta &gt; Brickstown &gt; yadda yadda yadda

Crai More.

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Not many hero archetypes can, either. A scrapper has a chance, so does a blaster, but neither is guaranteed. Also, can a Tank defeat a Brute? Tanker damage is weak, and they don't have the benefit of Fury.

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Uh, until they patch it, BRUTES don't even have the benefit of fury.

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That's tragic, but it doesn't really have anything to do with my question.

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The answer is yes, a Tank can defeat a brute. I've fought Fire/Fire, Ice/Ice, Invuln/SS, Earth/Fire and every combination contained therein. Just keep Dull Pain/Earth's Embrace/Fiery Embrace on two recharge enhancements, and you will whittle them down.

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Not many hero archetypes can, either. A scrapper has a chance, so does a blaster, but neither is guaranteed. Also, can a Tank defeat a Brute? Tanker damage is weak, and they don't have the benefit of Fury.

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Uh, until they patch it, BRUTES don't even have the benefit of fury.

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Recluse’s Victory – new high level PvP zone, open to players level 40 and up.”

All off topic posts will be removed. Please do not post bugs/feedback/balance issues before testing this content. All bugs/feedback/balance issues should be posted AFTER Recluse’s Victory has been explored.

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In my own opinion, I foresee this PvP zone to be like all other PvP zones in every other game. If you are a villain, don't bother going in till you are 50 and have at least 10 Hami-Os. In addition, make sure that you have a guaranteed, co-ordinated group of 8 members who know how to stick together and know when to pull back.

Otherwise, this zone will be nothing but an area where the heros farm prestige for their bases for hours on end.

Bar none, this is the biggest eyesore in PvP misbalancing I have ever seen. Even with Cackle as the leader, shouting out commands, we were ripped apart by 3 heroes. Our full group of 8, sitting at one pillbox.

Good luck getting a heavy, they were camped about 50% of the time I was there. I got killed so quickly.. didn't mater if I was fighting back or just repeatedly clicking on the glowy with Overload up. All it takes is one tap, you won't get it.

If you don't feel like lining the pockets of heroes, stick to Siren's Call. This zone, in all it's "cool featureness" is really just a place to keep the villains disenchanted with poor base defenses trapped behind a line of 5 heroes with Confuse, invulnerable undispellable pets, hurricanes, long range-one-shot snipes, ice patches, and all the others with no chance of a CM or resistance.

Good job.

I despise this zone. It has left such a sour taste in my mouth for the whole experience. Is this really what you want? A playground for the CoH bullies?

As Commander Mark would say:

"Draw draw draw!!"

And I did.

The only thing I can say is the folks with talent isn't a matter of how well they draw, it's a matter of what they pick as their subject matter. The biggest piece of advice I can give anyone is don't just sit there and draw eyes and faces... that will get you to a point, but you gotta get "The Eye." And "The Eye" needs to look at the weird stuff from a different angle. Draw a pill bottle, a sarcophagus, a monitor, your alarm clock, your roommate's elbow... once you get "The Eye" and see the vast possibilities of subject matter around you.. then go exploring your own imagination. You will find that your imagination is an amalgam of shapes and pieces of what you saw with "The Eye" before.. you just arranged them into a happy place and put it on paper.

The reason for the Stalker dominance in PvP zones is because Stalkers are the only ones that are worth PvP'ing with, Brutes being second in a very short list. Corruptors cannot pump out enough damage as most of their slotting went to buffs/heals/debuffs and Dominotors dropping their slots in either sub-par damage or sub-par holds (easily broken with purple candy, easily bought by the rich heroes). The end result of taking away the effectiveness will not be more diverse ATs, it will just mean less players in BB and SC.

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EDIT: Additionally, this change was mostly aimed at the Bloody Bay and Siren's Call levels where Stalkers are so far above any other AT in Kill Count vs Death Count that it isn't even funny. In higher level PvP zones, players have plenty of options of dealing with Stalkers, which *should* force Stalkers to Team more.

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Yeah, and the kill count order is usually:

Stalker
Blaster
Scrapper
Controller
Tanker
Defender
Brute
Corruptor
Dominator

With forum posters wanting stalkers to be barely just above Brutes. :P

Okay.. who is the one smoking crack now? Folks can get a placate resistance.

Just do us all a favour and plug your cake hole.