Liquid

I forgot to comment on this.

They told us no on making in-game enhancements work identically to SBEs. That also means no enhancement boosters, attunement, and they level with you. They told us no on that whole package.

I never saw any response to removing the 3-level-below-enancement-level restriction for set bonuses, and I'm not even sure it was asked for at the time (because we were specifically asked "would you like in-game IOs to work like SBEs?").

Please stop saying this, as it is not true. As I said in the post above this one that I am replying to, Reward Tokens are not free and are not earnable in-game. Each one costs $15, with a discount if you spend more money at once. There is also an opportunity cost for spending Reward Tokens or Paragon Points on Enhancement boosters-- you cannot choose another item that you otherwise would have chosen. You can't have "Enhancement boosters are free with the stipend" AND "premium powersets are free with the stipend" AND "costume sets are free with the stipend", so this whole "x is free" thing needs to stop unless it is earnable in-game.

The 3-level-below-enhancement-level rule needs to be removed for in-game enhancements just as it has been done for SBEs. That would resolve this issue for both sides.

Enhancement boosters cost money too. There is no in-game way to earn them. You can only get them through the Paragon Market and Paragon Rewards (which, if you only use the ones from the sub fee, limit how many you can get over time, and means forgoing other options. But you can get more if you spend more real money buying Paragon Points!).

So that's not a solution at all, unless they put enhancement boosters on Merit Vendors. And even then, the issues of lower volume for level 30ish enhancements (which, boosted to +5, are the only things equivalent to the SBEs), and inf-loaded level 50s competing with level 30s for the only thing a level 30 can slot would remain.

They need to remove the 3-levels-below-enhancement-level rule for set bonuses. That would resolve this issue in the fastest, easiest, and most elegant way.

Thanks for this, Tunnel Rat. I know a lot of people prefer the CoV version of Fire Shield, but I prefer the original CoH version. I feel that it looks more like an aura of fire that protects the character, whereas the CoV version looks like the character has been set on fire, which looks painful, not protective.

I understand your opinion, and accept that it matches the decision that was made when Power Customization was implemented, but I'd like to say that for a lot of players, City of Heroes' strong point is customization. This game, more than any other game, allows the players to define what is "signature" to their character. It was disappointing when these decisions were made for us, when we could have used the sets to create so many more concepts (full Ruby Armor, bright energy clouds) if we'd had access to the color options that other sets have. Also, dark options were allowed for Energy Blast, Energy Melee, and Energy Aura, which are supposed to be positive energy; it seems inconsistent to not allow light options for negative energy.

My personal opinion is that theme should only be something of concern for player powersets when it comes to Epic ATs, which are designed to have abilities defined by the developers. Please consider letting us fully define the themes for our abilities with the rest of the powersets.

Thank you so much for responding to this thread as much as you do, it is very appreciated.

In an amusing twist, I had a radio mission send me to the beam in Peregrine at lunch today. Was what occurred within real or fake?

(Note that I found it humorously fitting that I was facing the new CoT.)

I hope the current developers feel the same way, and then apply that to set bonuses on in-game IOs by removing the 3-below-enhancement-level rule.

However, the original rationale for the 3-below-enhancement-level rule wasn't about progress at all (you couldn't even gain xp when exemplared back then), but to keep exemplared players from outclassing native level characters due to the larger number of set bonuses from their higher number of enhancement slots.

Why is this no longer an issue if the set bonuses are acquired through real money?

There are currently two rules for exemplaring and set bonuses:

1) If you exemplar more than 3 levels below the level of the enhancement, the set bonus from that enhancement will shut off. This means that if you exemplar below level 47 with a level 50 IO, it will not provide set bonuses.

2) If you exemplar more than 3 levels below the minimum level of the set, the set bonuses from that set will shut off.

Store bought IOs ignore rule #1 because they have no level of their own.

All enhancements have their enhancement values scale down when you exemplar (though they do it based on modifiers in a table and based on the difference between your normal and exemplared level, they do not become the same as lower level IOs as you've described). These Store Bought Enhancements do it on a slightly different scale that, based on testing in the beta, made normal IOs have slightly better enhancement values at some levels and SBEs have better values at others. Those values were so small that I think they're mostly irrelevant, but the set bonuses are still significant.

These Store Bought Enhancements, at their maximum level, give enhancement values at their maximum level. If you exemplar below 37 with normal level 40 IOs, the set bonuses shut off. If you exemplar below 47 with normal level 50 IOs, the set bonuses shut off. Not so with these. These have the enhancement value of their max level when you are at the max level, and you can exemplar all the way down to 3 levels below the minimum level of the set and keep the set bonuses. That is superior to the in-game level 50 IOs. It's also superior to in-game level 30 IOs, as the level 30s don't give level 50 enhancement values at level 50.

I agree with this frustration. I slot entirely level 30s in order to keep set bonuses for exemplaring.

In beta I made a request that would remove my concerns about selling these enhancements: make the in-game enhancements work the same way. Stop making level 30 characters compete with level 50 characters (like me) that are loaded to the gills with inf because of the design of set bonuses and exemplaring. I was told this couldn't (or maybe it was just wouldn't) be done.

Set bonuses were originally designed to shut off when exemplared 3 levels below the level of the enhancement because of balance concerns-- the devs didn't want level 50's to totally outclass level 30s when exemplared due to retaining their set bonuses, and wanted to make them choose between enhancement values at high levels and set bonuses at low levels. But apparently this is no longer a concern now that they are selling enhancements that break that rule for real money.

So, if you can't make the in-game enhancements work the same way as the Store Bought Enhancements, can you just drop the "3 levels lower than the enhancement level" exemplaring rule entirely, leaving the only rule "3 levels lower than the minimum set level" just like the Store Bought Enhancements? That way level 50s can buy level 50 IOs in-game and not drain the supply and crank up the price of level 30-33s for people who actually are that level.

The Store Bought Enhancements keep their set bonuses to 3 levels below the minimum level of the set, making them superior to level 33 IO sets (or any level set if set bonuses while exemplaring are very important to you). The Touch of Death would work to level 22 and the Mako's Bite to level 27. This was tested in I21 Beta and called working as intended.

There is a very, very important aspect of these store-bought enhancements that is not mentioned here: their set bonuses do not shut off when you exemplar, unless you exemplar 3 levels below the minimum level of the enhancement. This means that purchased Mako's Bite, for example, functions like level 50 IOs at level 50, and level 30 IOs at level 30 with respect to set bonuses.

This is superior to the functionality of in-game level 50 IOs (whose set bonuses shut off at 46) or level 30 IOs (whose enhancement values stay at the level 30 value when at level 50). Though there are level ranges and exemplar levels where the in-game ones are slightly better enhancement-wise, these IOs are almost always superior to in-game IOs with respect to set bonuses.

One of the reasons this was viewed as somewhat excusable by some in beta was that they were "only" uncommon sets (despite having good ones like Reactive Armor and Red Fortune). But now you are adding Touch of Death and Mako's Bite, which are very valuable sets for set bonuses.

I'm looking forward to the rest of what you posted about. I'm glad to see the Preems getting a sale on Time Manipulation. Thanks for the update.

I know. It was really bizarre. I wish the thread wasn't gone, so that I could link it.

Yes, I'm 95% sure that it was Synapse. The post is gone, though, as it was in the I21 beta section, so I can't link it, unfortunately.


Yeah, that's always been my thought in response to the idea as well.

What's really weird about it was that when the Tier 5 powers were revealed, I pointed out the discrepancy (1 power set gets a power that makes it competitive, speed-wise with the others, and the rest get new utility or combat powers), and asked for Fly's speed cap to just be increased on its own, and for the Flight pool to get a different utility or combat power like the other sets got.

I was given the same server limitation response.

Yeah, the beam makes sense in context. I guess I just view it as a symbol of the whole thing, and how AE content is not connected to the real world. I'd rather be teleported into the mission from wherever I am than step into a digitizing column in a VR arcade run by villains.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was their goal-- to separate player content from dev created content. I agree with that desire, but I think it should have been done via the UI, in a meta-game way, instead of in a canon way. The player needs to know it's not official content, but making the character know it is unnecessary, and the way it was done runs counter to the genre in my mind.

Anyway, in regards to using the TuT, it definitely makes doing things easier, but it's not as immersing as having to go to a specific location in the world.

Sorry for the AE tangent. I just saw it as comparable.

It's a little more than that-- let's say you want a character with Fly, and you want both Burnout and Afterburner.

Well, currently, you'd need to take 3 powers in the Flight pool (Flight, one other, and Afterburner), and 3 powers in the speed pool (two powers + Burnout). That's 6 powers, and that means you've got 3 powers you didn't specifically want, meaning you likely had to sacrifice other choices to get them. But with your suggestion, you can take just Flight, Afterburner, and Burnout without sacrificing 3 other power choices to get there.

Maybe some context will make my objection seem less weird: I think that Architect Entertainment is a terrible concept for player-made content--in fact, I think that player-made content shouldn't have a different in-game concept at all. I think that player-made content should have functioned in the same way developer made content functions (i.e. through doors out in the world), but been accessed through a different area of the UI (perhaps a tab like the Tips tab that was explicitly labeled as player made content).

My objection is basically over the idea that superheroes/supervillains would stand around and play/create VR games about stopping/perpetrating crime, when there is actual crime to be stopped/perpetrated. And it's doubly bad for Heroes because of the fact that it was made by Dr. Aeon and run by Crey.

Does that seem like a less weird objection now?

Right, but that's what I don't like about it. I actually think it's worse than the TuT because it's explicitly presented as being fake. At least I have the option to run to a gateway in Dark Astoria for Kane's Mansion, or stand next to the sewer entrance in Atlas for DFB if I want.

I feel exactly the same way about the Mission Architect and its giant yellow pillar. Part of the fun of this game for me is feeling like the events that transpire are occurring within a larger world. The TuT and MA make it feel fake. There's no connection to the world.

I agree with you that hard choices are a good thing for the game. It promotes diversity, which I believe causes people to have more attachment to their characters.

While I think it's too late to do anything about it, the problem this suggestion is solving (as Jagged mentioned in his response as well) is the "we want to add a new travel power, but can't add a full new power pool for it" problem, that I believe led to inherent travel powers (which you argued against above, and I agree with) like Ninja Run and Beast Run. The inclusion of Ninja Run and Beast Run as they are already did reduce the number of hard choices when it comes to travel powers. I think I saw more people using Ninja Run as a travel power than any other travel power before the addition of Beast Run or the Rocket Board, and on characters that didn't remotely look like it fit their concept (if they had one).

Also, since Fitness became inherent, I've never run into a situation where I would have liked to have 5 Power Pools. I think I only ran into one when Fitness wasn't inherent. 4 Pools appears to me to be sufficiently large that it really doesn't create hard choices in the vast majority of cases.

So, had Jagged's suggestion been implemented prior to the Martial Arts pack, and Ninja and Beast run been added to that pool and require a power pick instead of being inherent, I believe we would have more hard choices than we do now. There is also the balance consideration that people who use Ninja Run or Beast Run get one more power pick than those who use the other travel powers.

But it's too late to do anything about it now. Players would be very upset over having to spend a power slot on Ninja or Beast run, especially after having paid money for them.

Edit: The above was all written without considering the fact that Jagged suggested that all non-travel powers in the pool be Tier 2 powers. Yeah, that removes some hard choices.

Hey! That's the statue from the Collector's Edition of the Distinguished Competition!

BUSTED!

And the actual threads for them now display the first few lines of content, like the search interface does.

We were all level 30ish, so that's not what was going on when I was testing it.

That seems to be what is supposed to happen-- when you set a mission, it gives a system message that says something like "You are now experiencing the world shaped by <so-and-so>'s actions". But we still end up being separated by the phases. I think that's really the point of the thread-- that there appears to be a bug with the phasing tech.