Leo_G

You did just say that, right Sam? I guess you can be on my 'To watch' list.

Anyway, I'd probably reword the statement to:

"Just because I'm a pervert doesn't mean I'll makes anthropomorphic characters."

If a pervert is a pervert, you'll probably know. And it won't be furry ears and a tail that tells. Do the guys that pump up the breast slider and put their females in bikinis or go hitting on any females in-game get a pass while me playing a bird demon should be burned at the stake? Lol, well maybe I should be burned at the stake since I'm probably a pervert too @_@

Now that's a phrase I haven't heard in a while...maybe it just fell out of fashion.

I'm speaking of the 'little room for error' part. It was something used a lot to describe Blasters back before the defiance change. From my experience though, Blasters still have little room for error; you screw up and you could be dead.

I think Blasters and Stalkers do have that in common...the little room for error part, that is. The difference being, rather than ending up dead if you screw up, you can just find you're in the pits dmg wise. Screwing up on a Stalker doesn't really result in death unless you're just being stupid, which means you probably need to revisit 'Blaster 101: Targeting, Jousting and all around Not-Being-Dead'. When you screw up somehow on a Stalker, it usually just means you wasted placate, wasted AS, wasted time and wasted endurance...but you can still fight because at least you're alive.

As for their selling point for teams, I suppose they still have issues there since 'A stalker ='ing a less aggressive and less AoE scrapper but is far less likely to die unless they don't know what they're doing' probably isn't a hugely useful trait in the general sense. Or 'A stalker ='ing a less damaging, melee-limited Blaster that is much easier to solo' isn't either.

The idea was for the toggles to be inherent. So any Stalker could aim at specific points on the body. The balance would probably come set by set. You could make certain sets particularly good with either A: body or A: legs (I could imagine aiming legs for Spines would be good since the spines set is already built to snare) or you can use the aims to balance the sets better, evening out their utility by doling out the extras more knowingly.

Actually, I'd say the jumper should jump *off* the edge of the building, i.e. using the corner edge as a launching point angled downward rather than upward.

As for the whole 'running should be faster than jumping', isn't running just jumps that don't have as high an upward velocity? Every time the foot hits the ground, you're basically 'jumping' from that planted foot into the air onto the other foot a short distance ahead of you.

Vs jumping, it'd depend what kind of jump you're doing and what kind of running your doing. The runner could 'accelerate' better...if you're trying to accelerate, you increase the stride while keeping/increasing pace. To launch into the air takes more spring in the stride resulting in a 'burst' of speed past the smaller stride of a runner without the same ability to keep/continue acceleration.

If that was all mental gibberish bleeding out on my keyboard, what I'm thinking is, the initial spring from a running jump is faster than simply running up until deceleration in the air occurs but even running will result in deceleration between strides just like leaping would.

But then mechanics can play a role too. Take a cheetah: there are points in their stride where none of their four feet touch the ground which could mean springing makes you faster than running (cheetah's strides are over 20ft, mind you). Or perhaps the kangaroo: their spring can go over a person from a stand still and most likely higher with speed. Higher speeds equals higher jumps and the mechanics of their legs most likely makes use of momentum to achieve extreme top speeds that translate into longer distance.

Okay, now use Aid Self while moving. That *is* kind of what Ninjutsu is about...particularly the non-static positions unlike Stone, Willpower and Invulnverability. Or did you want to just stand in one spot and hit buttons? I kinda sorta have to move about when I play my DB/Nin Stalker to line up cones and get at foes that are moving around on my caltrops (I really need to finally respec out of that power...)



It's actually nice to hear how people build there characters in general. As an aside, I tend to lack a concept until I visit the costume creator of open up Mids'. I generally start conceptualizing how their powers work, look through pools that I'm interested in or the costume pieces I find 'click' together then start forming the character from there. I have no list of 'performance powers' or 'concept powers', I just have the build and the look. After getting both the look and theorizing how their powers work and interact with eachother, I make their backstory and then from there it differs from character to character.

It sounds rather limiting making a list of 'musts' and 'wants'. Occasionally I'll just say 'hey, I haven't used the concealment pool. that'd totally could work like blah blah blah' then shift around the build to fit it. And I can usually work another angle of the build or cover over the loss of some other power with IOs. In the case of dropping one of the passives for confront, that's if you cannot swap anything else and if not, you'll be losing some passive resists but you can cover over the lack of defense for a position by swapping some IOs around to cover it.

Well, it'd have to be a pretty crappy/situational gadget or you'll surpass Ninjutsu on the AT it was created for. No, you'll probably get some sort of throw-away/utility passive instead.



My apologies. The way I tend to write, I use words and heavily direct their meaning through context. That is, don't try reading too deep into the extra meanings because I've most likely forgotten/ignored them in favor of particular meanings, specifically:


elitism - 1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority
2. (A) The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.

So yeah, I'm leaning toward the entitlement version of the word. Entitlement that one must have the best defense, the best version of the heal, the best recharge, etc. and anything that gets in the way of this mentality must be removed.



The difference is, I'm not trying to make a bad argument. I'm making a logical argument. And I've used multiple points to argue the issue. The thing is, I haven't really read much opposition to the direct points I brought up:
-Theme. Ninjutus is about guerrilla warfare and spying. Explain why this fits a Scrapper who themselves have expressed how upfront and in-your-face their style is. What Scrapper wants to run and hide? And even if a Scrapper does, they don't get as much from it. The style of the set does not support the style of the AT and the theme is a mismatch.

-Proliferation. Tends to be on a whim of the devs. If a set doesn't fit, has balance implications or like above does not support the style of the AT, it tends to get backburnered...that's as good as never proliferating it. The same things happen to sets like Regen Brutes, SS Scrappers and Shield Stalkers. For balance or theme reasons, these sets will see resistance and Ninjutsu is no different. Conclusion: If Shield Stalkers are a no-go, I can imagine Ninjutsu Scrappers sitting in the same boat.


To put it plainly: SR+weapons *IS* equivalent to a Scrapper /Nin built for the only reason that /Nin isn't available for Scrappers. No, it's not the same as a /Nin Stalker but then are you willing to give up a chunk of your HP and slightly lower DPS for that equivalence? If not, and not to sound rude but, I honestly don't *care* about the entitled equivalence you expect.

Sure, flip the argument about me feeling entitled to AoE and damage sets for Stalkers but that's to address a particular balance concern of the playerbase that feel the ATs damage is lacking. Not because I think Stalkers need to do more damage but because there is no option available to compromise defense for offense like the other damage dealers. I guess if there was a balance concern between /Nin stalkers and /SR+weapons scrappers, you'd have to prove to me there is a large enough gap in survival to warrant this proliferation.

Honestly, I don't really care for /Ninjutsu. What makes Stalkers unique to me is their style and that style feels more important than to the Scrapper or Brute. Once you start thinking in terms of style, it bleeds into performance (that is, I feel it makes performance better).

That said, what makes Ninjutsu so special? Well, it's on an AT that fulfills the concept of the set. What would make Ninjutsu ninjutsu if the style or tactics of a ninja never come into play? I'd rather a modified Gadget set created instead since it seems all that is desired here is a gadget using Scrapper. Then, at least, you could figure in a concept for a gadget using Brute or Tanker.

I have suggested a similar type of change in the past, except rather than giving the AT specific snipe powers that have varying uses and/or effects (but honestly speaking, a plethora of snipes is rather useless unless they don't alert the foe which wouldn't be balanced nor have much use on a team) I suggested 'Aim:' toggles inherent to the AT itself.

Aim: Leg = toggle this on and your powers have a reduced chance to hit but come add 100% snare effects like Knockdown, Immobilize, Slow movement and -Jump/Fly and -Range. Good if you want to do base damage while keeping foes planted.

Aim: Body = toggle that lowers your damage output by a degree but imparts debuffs to some of your attacks that include -dmg, -rech, -regen and -heal. Good if you're aiming to help take down a strong target via debuffs or to help out a team but you won't be tops for damage.

Aim: Head = toggle this on and your base crit rate goes up by 15% which stacks with Hide (so 65% chance to crit on AoEs and a partial extra chance to double crit on ST attacks) with a chance to impart a -ToHit debuff on the target.

This was a suggestion made before Dual Pistols brought about Swap Ammo so it wasn't a viable suggestion then. Now? It'd be possible but frankly, Stalker has way more 'tricks' in their pocket than their straight DPS cousins Blaster and Scrappers. It probably wouldn't be fair giving them even more.

Agreed on Stone, Mace, SS and Ice. As for Fire melee, there's the option of using either Tanker FM or Scrapper/Brute FM. With Scrapper/Brute, it has Cremate which *could* be a candidate for exchange as even though it is a ST attack, it is a pure DoT attack which is counter to Stalker's burst mentality (and works against Placate) but the other likely candidate for exchange would be Fire Sword Circle which I wouldn't want to be dropped.

But for Tanker FM, the set has 2 PBAoEs, Combustion being he likely candidate for exchange for AS since the set usually drops a PBAoE and Combustion is pure DoT. I'd prefer Tanker's version.

As for Fire Armor is actually the *most* likely to be proliferated. It's the easiest. Considering what the AT usually drops for Hide (damage aura then utility), all you have to do is drop Burning Aura for hide and you don't have to rebalance the set for any loss in survival (because you actually gain some). Vs the other possible set, Ice Armor, you'd probably lose Icicles but then Stalkers can't have repeats of powers and Hibernate would need to have something done to it since it's available in their Patron pools.

As for Shield defense: I already made a write up of a set called Strike Gauntlets (it'd still have the customization for shields but you'd have the option to just have heavy gauntlets too) which exchanged 3 powers (Phalanx Fighting, Against All Odds and Grant Cover) for 3 new ones.

-Hide (duh)
-Block! (a click defensive buff like Shadow Meld but with a shorter duration and smaller +def buff)
-Strike! (a passive +ToHit buff & gives a frenzy-like buff (Frenzy for Stalkers gives them a dmg buff and puts them back in hide) whenever you use Block!)

The set wouldn't have the sustained DPS as the other melee's SD but it would still have burst dmg capabilities as well as defensive burst capabilities over the other ATs. It's a fair trade and I could make another thread with the write up if you're interested.

But what is the issue here? That Stalkers have poor AoE? Or is it that Energy Melee has poor AoE across all ATs? When people complain about the amount of AoEs Stalkers have, they're comparing it across the AT not set by set. Otherwise, you can't say Stalkers lack AoE when you compare Stalker Spines vs Spines in general. Or Dark Melee over all. Or Electric Melee.

Giving Stalkers the sets with AoE resolves many of the issues of them lacking AoEs.

As a dmg AT, Stalkers *are* fine and have tools for supplementing their average DPS with burst. You can disagree but then that'd be contradicting the devs decision to leave the AT where it's at. So it's really just going to be you pouting, which isn't very productive.

And this is where I feel you're wrong.

You feel that stalkers are giving up AoE while I believe they have 'enough' AoE. You feel they lack the edge on AoE and I'd agree with you, but it evens out with their AoE burst capabilities. You feel that since Stalkers have little AoE they should be better at single target while I think Stalkers should just be given sets that are considered good at AoE (you'd probably take back much of your stance if Stalkers got Tanker Fire melee with combustion exchanged for AS or with SS, having a 50% crit Footstomp or throwing the AT Shields to make use of Shield charge).

You shouldn't have to bolster one AT over the others to make them superior for certain situations. Do people say "Man, we've got lots of minions running around...where can we get a blaster?" Probably not because any schmuck with AoEs can handle this. So why should Stalkers be special? It's not fair.

For some reason, I'm liking that fur color scheme...never tried a green furred creature like that. I think the most different I've ever made was a red & black haired werewolf...

*coming from a poster with a blue & white wolf in his sig*

Nah, I don't want to have to pick up SS to run different. I'd probably agree to making them simple inherents that you can choose between as well as alternate animations for movement powers, but currently we cannot customize pools so...

Eh, after being caught in caltrops, earthquakes, ice slicks and quicksands, you kind of get why jumping is so good...because it can easily be negated by a patch while running is always good.

You can slot for -movement resists but not for -jump.

Eh, it'd be useful for a limited situation of facing AVs and GMs. EBs usually don't cause much concern once you get to the point of surviving much of what they'd throw at you (popping a tray of reds and then just AS > attack chain > Placate > AS > chain will usually end those fights quickly). I wouldn't turn it down but frankly, I feel it's unneeded and somewhat unfair considering Stalkers are a damage AT among other damage ATs who all need to be competitive for that team spot.

If Stalkers had a 'switch' that changed that 2.8x dmg AS into just base 1x dmg but added a substantial debuff, that'd at least mean you want another dmg dealer to keep the DPS+Burst going while the Stalker keeps the target debuffed. Summary: Stalkers shouldn't be a dmg dealer AND a debuffer, just one or the other.

Personally, I'm of the opinion of giving Stalkers the same edge the other melees have: AoE and offensive buffs. The sets with good/best AoE are generally the sets Stalkers don't have. Looking at stuff like Mace, Super Strength, Ice, Fire and armors like Shields and Fire which provide offense would help the parity of the melees more than you think.

I don't suppose it's possible to make a robotic-like dinosaur or wolf like that (yes I've seen the 2x EXP weekend project of those guys on facebook).

Maybe we should ask for robot animal parts (robot tail, pls)

Well sorry, I didn't think that I was-

Oh, you were talking about that guy. Well, I'm still indifferent. He can say whatever the crap he wants. I'm just not the only one that doesn't care if he pushes 'post' or not, apparently.

It was in regard to the thread itself although I suppose it could extend to those that share the same viewpoint I'm speaking up against. If you don't fit those descriptions then congrats, stop thinking they are aimed at you.



Don't forget being interruptible.

You just explained why you wouldn't need Ninjutsu. The downfall is that it's not as loose to fit in superfluous powers like confront? You can easily skip a passive, lowering your defense to 1 position (probably putting you in the ballpark of real Ninjutsu) to pick it. Done and done.

So you don't need caltrops, or the heal and if you really need the AoE placate, there's a temp power that has the exact same stats.

I guess if you *really* want Blinding Powder, that's the only real reason it's needed so much, right?

Yes, you have to have an elitist mentality to min/max. If you're aiming to cap defense or HP, you can do that by modifying the performance to be better with IOs, inf, accolades, etc without min/maxing. To min/max, you specifically disregard superfluous parts to achieve maximum effect. That is to say, one can make a build with recharge in mind or capped defense and things, but you're going to have to min/max for *all of it*.




Is it so hard to accept that I'm just playing the opponent of Scrapper Ninjutsu? It has been stated just how unneeded the prolif is since it can be nearly duplicated with a special build and how it isn't thematically in line with the AT.

So why proliferate it, again? Because you want it bad enough, I suppose. That hasn't really worked for me getting Shields for Stalkers, tho.

I would have sworn they used a kind of multi-spiked star shape to censor stuff in those Girls Gone Wild commercials sometimes with words in them.

And don't make me start with the armor piercing rockets of the Nemesis Automatons or Zeus Titans...Wow, that's weird...and I'm sure there's someone out there that finds it arousing.

How is that balanced? With swift, you retain full control of your speed but it's slower. With hurdle, you gain more speed but you cannot control it besides cutting the jump short.

So cut on swift and sprint and see how much control over your movement and friction you have. Then start jumping around without combat jumping on. See how you can't change direction mid-air or how it's hard to slow your ascent?

Ah, so you picked one of my names? And you said you'd pay for it, correct?

For some reason, those sparkles in that center pic look like they're censoring something >_>

Oy, why do people have to do this? I mean, I'm pretty indifferent about a lot of things and I'm sure there are people out there that care, but your intolerance is surely making people care less and less for what you think.