Leo_G

He does have a point, Umbral. With an unenhancable endurance cost penalty on your SS attacks, some builds will only be able to run this new rage for a short time, basically ending up with maybe 120% of the duration of BU but with only 50% of the 'bonus' (I say 'bonus' because, techincally it's not the same bonus as BU but you get the idea) with the added cost of being nearly out of a blue bar. That's not quite fair, IMO.

Why not just add a delay to your endurance penalty? Give the toggle 15sec of your extra damage with no penalty. This means you get 'free damage' for a time which is kind of what BU and powers like Power Siphon and Follow up do...they give you some extra 'free' damage with not real downfall. Where this new Rage can mix it up is after that 15 sec, they can keep on raging at a cost.

Even though I honestly don't care for Umbral most of the time (mainly because he often refuses to look at things from others' perspectives it seems), I do actually like this idea to fix SS. As is, there's no mechanics in the game to simply dump your endurance into your powers to get a better effect. And with teammates/buffs/IOs, many can reap the rewards of limitless endurance and it leaves the utility of endurance management powers at a fraction of their use. How many are going to be craving Quick Recovery in the future now that everyone gets Stamina in the pre-lvl6 game? Who needs to fill their endurance bar every 30 sec if you simply build to never run out in the first place?

When people compare builds where endurance management sets would prevail, you have to remember that those sets were designed that way. They were designed to have an offensive edge because they have extra endurance to burn. Too bad there's not much opportunity to 'burn' it, with the only advantage of such powers being they offer a buffer in the face of drains.

For Brute/Scrapper Dual Blades? I can imagine. For Stalker Dual Blades? Probably not. >_>

But seriously, Stalker DBs does have some little features that make it kinda special...even if one of them is kinda a mistake (everyone should stick procs in Stalker Ablating...it's interesting).

Probably because you get your smash/lethal and some energy defense with your first toggle which covers pretty much everything the enemy will throw at you in the beginning. No cold or negative energy and fire is mostly coupled with smashing damage of the Destroyers. Only later do the Pyrokinetics and Psionic sindicate foes come later and there's usually only one of them in a group.

So you can pretty much get all your protection from 1 toggle...and when you encounter energy damage (pretty much all the PPD and Clockwork), you can turn on your other toggle for even better coverage...better than you could get from other sets at that point.

For SR, you're going to have to run at least 2 toggles (melee and ranged) not to mention the lack of SO rech in your mez click will mean it won't always be up. Not downing on SR, but it's a pain to start...

I've got a few Energy Aura characters, 1 of which is a KM/EA stalker I took through Preatoria, and it wasn't uncommon for him to be able to just stand in place for a couple seconds before queuing up AS while there were PPD swinging/shooting at him.

IMO, I like where EA is. It doesn't do too little or too much so most likely, it will see buffs at best and nothing at worse. And there are so many possible improvements you can choose to boost the set by. As a kinda-hybrid of defense/minor-resist/minor-heal with a stealth twist, you can aim an alteration from any of those angles.

Moderately improve the resists of the passives? Maybe add a -dmg component to Energy Drain to aid in taking hits? Perhaps giving Conserve Power the tweek of improving the heal on ED while it's running?

I agree with this. Unless you're hitting BU whenever it's recharged, some of this feature will be wasted. It's a DPS feature on a Burst damage ability in place of a Burst damage feature (i.e. critical damage on CS).

Probably won't ever outstretch Power Siphon's boost, that's for sure, but I'll keep it. I guess if I'm up against a hard target, this set would be better served to just keep hitting BU and meleeing it out and when you're out of BU and CS is recharging? Hit placate and AS then keep going.

Just making sure we're clear on that. But if I were making an educated guess based on logic and observation of patterns, I'd say if the devs proliferate EM, they're not going to do a half-***ed job and take the road that takes the least use of a calculator. They're just going to take the animation, damage, recharge times, etc and tweek it till it's Scrapper EM. Afterall, they did it for Brute Claws which could have been an easy cut/paste job.

I figured it was after the first couple of pages, but I was just trying to divert my attention so I wouldn't catch myself quoting and responding to every statement I had something to say about. Lol and there's a lot I want to say too but I'm controlling that urge.

Everytime you link to that and I watch it, I hate that attack more and more...

The resenshuriken is suppose to slice up his chakra network every time he uses it, right? It's suppose to be dangerous/life threatening (and I'd presume that shippuuden movie was before the Pain fight so he probably doesn't have sage mode or control of the kyubi so that's not healing him...). Hell, the explosion itself should have ripped his clothes apart (if not the majority of his body).

I like huge OMGWTMFH!1 attacks as much as the next guy but...uhg, I'm just not liking that omni-weapon anymore. Much prefer Asuma's more subtle version of the whole 'cut stuff with wind' skill.

Have to say, I don't keep up on stuff on the MM front. They're not my AT.

But considering what customization may come down the pipeline, I wouldn't expect to be able to swap one unique pet model for another (like is being discussed)...maybe just color then and add/remove certain accessories...but you'll still have the same base model.

Besides, I like the idea of being able to customize what units. So if I want ranged ninjas, I can pick that from the start...or melee robots...

I've got no reason to excuse myself as I'm not going anywhere. I can stop responding to you, though. I'm beginning to hate Candlestick for being right about the pissing match, though. And he probably won't share any of his popcorn either.

And PS: AFAIK, the only corrections addressed to me were the couple from Siolfir which I concede to. You haven't been 100% accurate with your info either so why not excuse yourself?



Just so you understand where we've treaded:
-You're arguing that it'd be easier to proliferate Stalker EM to Scrappers.
-I say it could be just as easy to proliferate from the other melees.
-You press the issue of crit values, still claiming it could be easier.
-I say we don't know that.
-You admit you're only guessing.

Hurray for closure. We basically end up with where I started from, FYI.


And this is what I mean by needing to have the last word. But I'll continue to discuss.

None of that matters. So what if Batman uses Caltrops? What if my character is *more* modern than Batman? We've got hovering assault turrets, teleporation grids and extra-dimensional technology. Who's to say my character hasn't advanced beyond archaic caltrops? Or relying on magic or mutant powers?

Beyond that, there are just characters that do not use gadgets. They rely on their powers. Caltrops are gadgets and not everyone is a gadget user. If the use of gadgets weren't an issue, people wouldn't complain about the tricorder from the medicine pool.

Conceptually, no, caltrops is not general enough to fit as an inherent. In a pool, perhaps.

We can only hope. Honestly though, I think my Elec and Spines stalkers would be too good >_> but I'll take it.

IMO, the current 100% crit on Burst is good compensation for the static 20% chance to recharge BU on CS.

Which says nothing about anyone being wrong. It's more a comment about always having to have the last word...kind of like now. Honestly, I don't have the time to be bothered with responding to every nitpick (like being wrong about the stun with Energy Transfer or the stun chances Siolfir pointed out) and it's even more useless when I have to keep repeating myself for people like yourself.


One last go...yes, I did read your post. You're just not bothering to understand that removing one crit value to add another could be just as easy or hard as removing one gauntlet value to add a crit value. What you're not bothering to get is, we don't know what's easier but you seem to think you do.


A generalized statement. The characters that tend to use caltrops are ninja-esque or gadget-users (See Tsoo or Knives of Artemis) and not all characters are either. Caltrops is far more specific a concept than Hide or Domination which are currently inherent or Fitness which will be inherent.

Again, I wouldn't get too attached to the 100% crit on Burst. I'm enjoying it myself too but I don't wanna be sad if/when it goes. It's sort of mitigated by my enjoying the AS animation so I still have to choose which to start a battle.

From another hypocrite? Unlikely.

Since stating "Scrappers don't want stalker EM proliferated" makes no sense, the only probable translation is "Scrappers don't want EM proliferated", which we know isn't true as there are still players that play and like the set.

If that's not what you mean, then I'd say clarify your stance.

As for fewer players playing the set? This is true. 5 is less than 6 and it's not a mystery that people will gravitate to other sets for whatever reasons.

But 'far' fewer? This would have to be proven. I can prove players still use and like the set, which is the only point I was making at the start.

I'd hardly call 2 posters throwing quips at me 'flames'. Maybe a cigarette bud...

And where did I say you're not right? If anything, I just returned the nitpick because the point was, the values are different and would require more than just adjusting them to proliferate not to mention scrappers can't get Assassin's Strike and would either need a new attack or pull out a version of Whirling hands with independant values and add to it.

And I'd hardly call explaining my post 'taking it personal'. Truth be told, I already 'took it personal' when BillZ, someone I actually considered a respectful poster, stooped to something petty. But like you said, rep is gone so there's nothing to take personal now. At this point, I don't really care what anyone thinks of my opinion. I'll express what I like and you can just not read it (see my posts on why I don't care for new Inherent Fitness!).

That said, I already explained why I'm not totally behind the OP's suggestion. Just because I make a stalker doesn't make them ninjas...

I'm not the one that keeps bringing it up. I only mentioned it in passing, then clarified the implied meaning. If you have such an issue with my posts, then stop misinterpreting them. One way to do this is to just stop trying to interpret what you want to hear.

Aaaaand, considering Stalkers still have a crit chance on held or slept foes in PvP which is indeed a value added to the AT's powers to simulate their inherent...

...I say just stop trying to be right all the time.

I was trying to make the comparison between mitigative powers, specifically Repulsing Torrent. If the theme of the set is -dmg, then its mitigating power should have it but it doesn't. It doesn't even provide a self-damage buff when used with Power Siphon and the KB isn't 100% either.

But my point was, KM has multiple deviation points, the stun in the tier 9 being one of them.

Well apparently I'm suppose to be prissy so no.

Lol so when someone gets proven wrong (such as the rep system being mainly for griefing or useless +rep circle jerk games and only minorly related to anything related to worth or as a gauge to grade others...that's why it was removed) we can just say 'invalid argument. drop it.'? Yeah, I have a feeling I won't ever get that courtesy from you guys.

Invalid argument. Drop it.

Not good enough? Well, considering Stalker EM was proliferated from the Tanker version with the same values except with extra flags to work with crits, placate and hide, you have a pretty useless argument. Even porting EM from Stalkers to Scrappers, they'd have to rewrite every crit value and all the flags since Scrappers don't get placate or hide or scaling crits but instead get different crit values for minions vs others. It'd be just as much work delete and add those values as it would be to delete the fury/gauntlet values to add Scrapper flags. It's a moot point. Without changing/adding values to cover the ATs' inherents, the only difference is power order.

To say the rep system was accurate for many posters then turn around and name more exceptions that we all know outnumbered the first case (you also forgot the posters that turned rep off so no one could see how much/little rep they had) is contradictory.

This is stupid. I can give you evidence that there are still a decent size of players playing EM but to expect the same number (or even close) belies the results you want to see. What about those new sets introduced to those ATs? Or even lowered requirements to play EATs.

No, the proof you want is impossible. But that still doesn't mean no one likes or wants to play the set.

What? You search for your name on the boards? How vain. You can't be just reading the Stalker forums as you hold no interest in them nor bother to try and understand them.



This is relevant to the statement you quoted.

PS: How's that rep workin' for ya