Lemur Lad

Hell, you could even say ever since they decided to sell Collector's Edition versions with extras, we've never had "all" for the base price of game+sub

If you think I was saying that to be insulting to you, trust me I wasn't. It's a known fact that the guy who picks up his ball to go home, then turns around and says "and another thing..." never ever wins the argument.

Calling the way you write rambling isn't an insult. It's a very recognizable form called stream of consciousness. Under normal circumstances, putting your thoughts down as they occur to you and then not editing for structure only works in creative applications, not argumentative. If you are editing your thoughts and structuring your posts, you're doing a poor job of it.

I'm really not trying to dismiss or insult you. I'm trying to point out fundamental flaws in your method of delivery so you stop blaming other people for not understanding what you're trying to say. Because in truth, a writer that blames his readers first is the one that's being insulting.

They aren't. Premium accounts keep what they've paid for. ATs included. Unless there's been some clarification since the 5-10 times I saw it directly reported from SDCC that that was the case.

See, this is what I mean about you not having a fundamental grasp of certain facts. Cite where you get this information, state your point clearly, and you can be corrected. Stop running so far afield when you're not even fully conversant of the basics.

Well yeah. That's why I wrote the sentence after the one you quoted. I never said I was able to understand it, just telling him what he needs to do for regular human type readers to.

I did decide I want to pull this one statement out and apply a little common sense to it.

Who cares what statistics say? If X number of people come to the game that couldn't afford to before, and spend n<=$15 a month, that's still X*n dollars that the company never would have seen.

If the number of people staying or becoming VIP stays roughly the same, then all of that money is gravy.

Besides, claiming "statistics say" without actually citing the source is downright silly, and probably part of the reason people are ignoring the "literal meaning of your words"

That's another point where you're wrong. I've read both your posts. More than once. If you want people to understand the literal meaning of your words, you need to learn to put them together in a much more coherent and concise fashion.

Complexity of thought and language is fine when you have the skills and take the time to convey it, but you haven't. You're making a lot of broad assumptions about the current state of the game, the state of VIP and Premium accounts after Freedom, and the future of the store. If your statements and citations had been even a little more concrete I'd take the time to start correcting them, but you can't blame people for not following what you're trying to say when you write like a tilt-a-whirl.

I'm not blindly defending what is to come without genuine knowledge of such. I am mercilessly pointing out your attempts to make a point while ignoring key pieces of factual historical information.

It's simple. We've nearly always had to pay for new powersets for a stretch of time before they became free. That's not changing with CoH:Freedom no matter how many times you try to say it is.

A cruise liner that doesn't get as many passengers as it used to isn't the same thing as a ship going down after it hit an iceberg. The other games I was referring to went to their f2p models usually within 24months of launch, and amid reports of anemic numbers from the get-go. That's the distinction I was making.

You know, I'm not so sure about that. Here's what we know is done, in the works, or been hinted at:

Beam Rifle (Freedom Launch)
Street Justice (done- coming "soon" after launch)
Titan Weapons (specified as for the store)
Staff Melee (a now not so secret leak)
"Good things" coming for Dominators (strongly hinted to be new set(s) whether they are for the store or for release remains to be seen)

They have a lot to be going forward on, and this is just the stuff we know about. I doubt they're going to make us wait long for Street Justice since people are super hyped for it, and what I've seen on beta doesn't show it to be in need of serious work.

Anyway, that's 4 sets already in various stages of done-ness. Under the new model, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new set every couple of months for the next year.

All of this is apropos of nothing, I'd love it if they maintained that kind of pace, even at 800pp per set.

Objectivity requires weighing all the facts equally. When you start doing that, I'll start looking at your statements with more than scorn.

I did not quote you in error. I was referring to the inherent hypocrisy in your call for patience and your prior statements in this thread.

It's not meant to keep up. Not even the 550 a t9 vet would get is. That's the point. They're doing all this so they can give us more stuff more often without waiting for a booster or a new issue to do it. They'll make it easier for VIPs with the stipend but it will still cost money to get everything.

However what's available in the store isn't the end all of the situation. It's what is in each issue plus what they add to the store. If you feel what's in the issues plus what you get with your stipend is less than what you used to get from free issues, then you might have a leg to stand on. However from what we've seen and what's been hinted at for the store "Coming Soon" you will be very hard pressed to make that argument stick.

Which is why the assertions that we used to get all this stuff as part of our sub are ludicrous. Either be patient and wait and see, or be mad that the changes aren't fair. Trying to be both just looks silly.

Short answer: Nope. Rogues and Vigilantes get the option of doing content with teams on either side. They have increased Merit earning potential if they choose to take part in it, and that and their flexibility are their rewards.

Boosters and expansions are free?

Seriously. Take the blinders off. Don't ignore obvious facts in an attempt to make your point.

Incorrect on many levels. We never got everything as part of our sub fee. All the new sets launched with CoV were paid for by people who bought CoV. All the new sets that came with Going Rogue were paid for by people who bought Going Rogue (many of us even paid for early access to those sets).

The money for our sub fees didn't go toward the development of these new paid sets, some of the money from GR and the Boosters did. Now the money from these sets will go toward whatever the next sets to be launched are.

It's just paid for on a case by case basis in Freedom instead of in big chunks with expansions. It's even free for those with the patience to wait a little while.

The money for our subs goes toward whatever THEY say it goes for, not what you decide it goes for. You haven't paid for this new stuff already, you paid for the months of time you got to play, and the things they decided to include as part of the new Issue 21.

Extra stuff is just that. Extra. If you don't think you're getting good value for your money, so be it. But you're not being asked to pay twice, you're not being gouged for wanting it all now. They're doing the same thing they've always done, leveraging the cost of early delivery by allowing people to pay a premium price for it if they want to.

Extra stuff is not free stuff, and no you don't deserve to have it be part of your subscription, and no it hasn't "always" been that way before.

It could easily be read 2 ways. Since the poster wrote it as /time there's nothing wrong with the assumption they meant "along with the time manipulation set"

Without clarification, either interpretation is right, and upon reading it I was willing to call the poster incorrect myself, until I saw someone had done that already.

I would not consider this a Con for Scrappers. Shedding aggro like water off a duck's back may be bad if teammates are expecting you to do something you're not designed to do, but it's great when it lets you focus on your job, which is to flip out and kill ****.

Your problem really is having to choose what you want most instead of being force fed things you don't want in the order someone else chooses isn't it?

My mind is boggled that you think being able to pick what you most want first is somehow bad for the game or it's customers.

Yes all. Just not all right away.

Here we go again. Why are you arguing that being given the choice of what to get free and what to pay for is somehow worse that having to wait for new full issues, or paying for expansions, or paying for booster packs?

Paragon is offering those extras free to subscribers. All those QoL extras are part and parcel of the Paragon Rewards system if you don't want to buy them at the store.

They're not "double charging" subscribers. Nearly every new powerset added to the game since launch was charged for in one way or another initially, then made free later. That's precisely how it works now, except WOWZERS we get to choose which ones we get now and which we get later. You may not like having to make a choice, but a lot of people do, and they're not just the fans of the game. I've heard a lot of people saying they're coming back specifically because they like having all these options to choose.

You're opening yourself for attack because you seem to think that "All of it now for Free" is a sensible option, then telling people they're fanbois for pointing out how it isn't.

Not only is what you're saying inaccurate, it's nonsense. The attitude with which it's delivered leaves a lot to be desired too.

The game had its 7th anniversary this year. We're in the long run now, and the thoughts of people who like most of what the devs have done hasn't driven the game into the ground before now.

You're acting like people who are generally ok with the game's direction and say so is a new thing. I've been dealing with complainers like yourself who resort to comments like this for years. It's never been correct, and you're not correct now.

When I disagree with something the devs do, I tell them and make sure I'm heard. However I don't pollute the forums at large with a general bad attitude that makes me sound like a troll. I agree on what I agree on, and I disagree with what I disagree with, and I'm man enough not to sulk when I turn out to be incorrect. Maybe someday you can learn to do the same.

Don't change what your argument is when someone counters your argument. You didn't try to make the point that what CoH is doing is different than what other games do. You tried to make the point that what CoH is doing now is different that what it's done in the past. It's flat out not, and the people telling you so are not Yes Men for saying so.

You're allowed to disagree with the way they do things. But you should have your facts straight on how they did things before, and how they do things now, and how they're not really different.

Additionally, when you bring a crappy attitude, you don't have a leg to stand on when someone calls you on it. If your posts had been reasonable and rational instead of sulky, then the person who pointed out what you said was childish would indeed have been making an ad hominem attack. Instead they were just calling a spade a spade.

You're making the ultra common mistake of confusing not getting them NOW for free with not getting them for free. You listed 4 powersets. 1 for free, the others available early on the store. At 800 points each, thats 1 powerset every 2 months for 6months.

I don't know what paradigm for free new powersets you're judging this by, but there has been no stretch in the game's seven year history where they added 4 new sets for free that I can think of.

What you're really mad about is that you need to grow some patience in order to enjoy the new stuff for free.

I paid for my GR pre-order so I could get early access to the new powersets. If I like these new sets enough, then I will do the same again. I see no literal difference in the situation.

Since you opened the door to being blunt and dismissive by doing so to the people who responded to you with this comment, I will say this:

Not until you learn to write.

Dinging people for not understanding your point when you bury it in a lot of passive voice ******** and overused repetition, is ludicrous.

In writing or speaking repetition is a good mechanism for emphasizing your point, but not when it's overused to the point that everything you say looks the same.

On top of that, going on to explain in detail, without giving details and burying your meaning in convoluted language at the same time you expect people to know what aspects of the program you're referring to is not only vague, but next to impossible to parse out.

You'd have been far better off citing the a handful of specific examples of the things you're bothered about, and explaining why they bother you.

Telling people they're not understanding what you said when what you said isn't understandable. Do you see the irony in that?

PS- Don't knock the value of a simple declarative sentence.

PPS- This game has a unique F2P model because out of all the F2P games, it is in a unique position. It's not being born as F2P. It's not trying to save a sinking ship where the subscription model failed. It's got a strong core model based on subscriptions, and they want to give more to those subscribers at the same time they attract new people. They're not out to gouge anyone. They're just trying to stay true to what they have at the same time they accept the changing realities of the MMO market, and create a more efficient delivery mechanism for all the great stuff they have made.