Lemur Lad

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  1. If you could tell us what flavors of AT we're dealing with, I could be more helpful. It really makes a difference knowing what buffs and debuffs are available.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    I missed that, and continue to miss that. Only by sematical twisting is it possible to make that statement. As far as all information currently provided states, VIP subscribers will get more actual content for the same subscription price than they were getting before. The only way to state otherwise is to say that we used to get "all" and now we're getting less than "all" which is, on top of being factually inaccurate, silly besides. "All" is not a quantity, and ever since they decided to sell booster packs and boxed expansions, we've never had "all" for our subscription.
    Hell, you could even say ever since they decided to sell Collector's Edition versions with extras, we've never had "all" for the base price of game+sub
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
    1) Forum tip of the day: Insult others when they accuse you of insulting them. It makes you look so much better. /sarcasm
    (Yes, the golden rule, treat others as you would like to be treated, makes it perfectly fine for me to say that because you asked for it by treating me as such.)
    If you think I was saying that to be insulting to you, trust me I wasn't. It's a known fact that the guy who picks up his ball to go home, then turns around and says "and another thing..." never ever wins the argument.

    Calling the way you write rambling isn't an insult. It's a very recognizable form called stream of consciousness. Under normal circumstances, putting your thoughts down as they occur to you and then not editing for structure only works in creative applications, not argumentative. If you are editing your thoughts and structuring your posts, you're doing a poor job of it.

    I'm really not trying to dismiss or insult you. I'm trying to point out fundamental flaws in your method of delivery so you stop blaming other people for not understanding what you're trying to say. Because in truth, a writer that blames his readers first is the one that's being insulting.
  4. Forum Tip of the day: If you say it's going to be your last post in the thread, don't come back and post more. Certainly don't come back and post another page and a half of the same rambling stuff.

    Quote:
    Go ahead Lemur Lad; refute that the first boxes included those archetypes as a feature under the same price. I would like to see the excuse for letting people play the other 8 for free while those who purchased can't play all 10. Not even "performance issues" could be cited as a good enough reason.
    They aren't. Premium accounts keep what they've paid for. ATs included. Unless there's been some clarification since the 5-10 times I saw it directly reported from SDCC that that was the case.

    See, this is what I mean about you not having a fundamental grasp of certain facts. Cite where you get this information, state your point clearly, and you can be corrected. Stop running so far afield when you're not even fully conversant of the basics.
  5. Theoretically speaking, we already have this, it's just mainly used on Objects.

    I've always hoped to see them find a way to apply it to NPCs or even player costume parts. However I don't expect to see the last mainly because we continually heal from low to full in seconds.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Justice Blues View Post
    Really? you were able to do that? I tried, but the walls of text and no logical progression from point to point made my eyes glaze over and my head hurt. And I wish I were joking.
    Well yeah. That's why I wrote the sentence after the one you quoted. I never said I was able to understand it, just telling him what he needs to do for regular human type readers to.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
    I can tell you it certainly may not be worth enough for those coming here because of F2P who didn't find the subscription worth it before Freedom. They tend to spend less with statistics showing(as best they can) that most F2P players pay little or nothing while 10% of them pay more than the equivalent of $15 per month to varying degrees, while still not subscribing.
    I did decide I want to pull this one statement out and apply a little common sense to it.

    Who cares what statistics say? If X number of people come to the game that couldn't afford to before, and spend n<=$15 a month, that's still X*n dollars that the company never would have seen.

    If the number of people staying or becoming VIP stays roughly the same, then all of that money is gravy.

    Besides, claiming "statistics say" without actually citing the source is downright silly, and probably part of the reason people are ignoring the "literal meaning of your words"
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
    only because you people don't even try to comprehend the literal meaning of my words
    That's another point where you're wrong. I've read both your posts. More than once. If you want people to understand the literal meaning of your words, you need to learn to put them together in a much more coherent and concise fashion.

    Complexity of thought and language is fine when you have the skills and take the time to convey it, but you haven't. You're making a lot of broad assumptions about the current state of the game, the state of VIP and Premium accounts after Freedom, and the future of the store. If your statements and citations had been even a little more concrete I'd take the time to start correcting them, but you can't blame people for not following what you're trying to say when you write like a tilt-a-whirl.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    You question my objectivity when all you have done is blindly defend the changes without any genuine knowledge of what is to come.
    I'm not blindly defending what is to come without genuine knowledge of such. I am mercilessly pointing out your attempts to make a point while ignoring key pieces of factual historical information.

    It's simple. We've nearly always had to pay for new powersets for a stretch of time before they became free. That's not changing with CoH:Freedom no matter how many times you try to say it is.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robotech_Master View Post
    I kind of wonder about that, really—the "not trying to save a sinking ship" thing. There seem to be a lot fewer players around now than there were a couple years ago before I let my sub lapse. It tends to be a lot harder to build a team than it used to be on the less-populated servers. I also notice that the subscriber figures for City of Heroes on MMOData haven't been updated since 2009, at which point it was on a definite (if gradual) downward trend and only had about 125,000 subscribers.

    How many subscribers are there now? Have the devs said lately? Perhaps the ship has grown leakier than it appears.
    A cruise liner that doesn't get as many passengers as it used to isn't the same thing as a ship going down after it hit an iceberg. The other games I was referring to went to their f2p models usually within 24months of launch, and amid reports of anemic numbers from the get-go. That's the distinction I was making.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    They're not likely to keep coming out with a new powerset every two months, so it's quite likely that there will be many months where your 400pp can go to things other than powersets if you're a "dedicated altoholic".
    You know, I'm not so sure about that. Here's what we know is done, in the works, or been hinted at:

    Beam Rifle (Freedom Launch)
    Street Justice (done- coming "soon" after launch)
    Titan Weapons (specified as for the store)
    Staff Melee (a now not so secret leak)
    "Good things" coming for Dominators (strongly hinted to be new set(s) whether they are for the store or for release remains to be seen)

    They have a lot to be going forward on, and this is just the stuff we know about. I doubt they're going to make us wait long for Street Justice since people are super hyped for it, and what I've seen on beta doesn't show it to be in need of serious work.

    Anyway, that's 4 sets already in various stages of done-ness. Under the new model, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new set every couple of months for the next year.

    All of this is apropos of nothing, I'd love it if they maintained that kind of pace, even at 800pp per set.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    I am being objective and objectivity seems to be something this thread seems extremely lacking in from both the for and against crowds.
    Objectivity requires weighing all the facts equally. When you start doing that, I'll start looking at your statements with more than scorn.

    Quote:
    Secondly, I don't know if you quoted me by mistake or not but trying to use the phrase "be patient and wait and see" with respect to someone who's post by very definition is about patience, is a little confusing.
    I did not quote you in error. I was referring to the inherent hypocrisy in your call for patience and your prior statements in this thread.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    Actually, I think it will be much later than issue 21 before we can make a fair assessment of the situation.
    To figure out the true value of our 400 points per month, we need to see exactly how fast they are pumping out new "must have" content that has a purchase requirement.

    At this point it seems likely that 400 points a month isn't going to keep up with the demands of new content but I for one would like to see how much of a point shortfall we will have.
    It's not meant to keep up. Not even the 550 a t9 vet would get is. That's the point. They're doing all this so they can give us more stuff more often without waiting for a booster or a new issue to do it. They'll make it easier for VIPs with the stipend but it will still cost money to get everything.

    However what's available in the store isn't the end all of the situation. It's what is in each issue plus what they add to the store. If you feel what's in the issues plus what you get with your stipend is less than what you used to get from free issues, then you might have a leg to stand on. However from what we've seen and what's been hinted at for the store "Coming Soon" you will be very hard pressed to make that argument stick.

    Which is why the assertions that we used to get all this stuff as part of our sub are ludicrous. Either be patient and wait and see, or be mad that the changes aren't fair. Trying to be both just looks silly.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soul_System View Post
    "Do you think it's fair for me to earn vigilante fame, for vigilante rewards (reward merits) at a reduced rate for helping hero missions?"

    Short answer: Nope. Rogues and Vigilantes get the option of doing content with teams on either side. They have increased Merit earning potential if they choose to take part in it, and that and their flexibility are their rewards.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    This is a mmo, currently our subs are their sole source of income.
    Boosters and expansions are free?

    Seriously. Take the blinders off. Don't ignore obvious facts in an attempt to make your point.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Giant2005 View Post
    The problem isn't whether or not we get to choose what we get.
    The problem is that before we didn't choose because we got EVERYTHING.

    You might try and use some kind of logic that with the extra income from Freedom they will churn out new stuff faster than we are used to because they can afford a larger development team. To that, I say what about now? What about Beam Guns and Street Justice and all of this stuff developed before that extra income starts rolling in? That stuff was created with the money from our $15 subscriptions. Without Freedom those sets that we paid for with our subbscriptions would be ours for free. Each and every one of them. Everything for sale in Freedom is stuff developed during the time that we paid for.

    So why do we have to pay again?
    Incorrect on many levels. We never got everything as part of our sub fee. All the new sets launched with CoV were paid for by people who bought CoV. All the new sets that came with Going Rogue were paid for by people who bought Going Rogue (many of us even paid for early access to those sets).

    The money for our sub fees didn't go toward the development of these new paid sets, some of the money from GR and the Boosters did. Now the money from these sets will go toward whatever the next sets to be launched are.

    It's just paid for on a case by case basis in Freedom instead of in big chunks with expansions. It's even free for those with the patience to wait a little while.

    The money for our subs goes toward whatever THEY say it goes for, not what you decide it goes for. You haven't paid for this new stuff already, you paid for the months of time you got to play, and the things they decided to include as part of the new Issue 21.

    Extra stuff is just that. Extra. If you don't think you're getting good value for your money, so be it. But you're not being asked to pay twice, you're not being gouged for wanting it all now. They're doing the same thing they've always done, leveraging the cost of early delivery by allowing people to pay a premium price for it if they want to.

    Extra stuff is not free stuff, and no you don't deserve to have it be part of your subscription, and no it hasn't "always" been that way before.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    Re-read what you quoted. "WITH TIME", you get Beam Rifle for free. You also get Street Justice and Titan Weapons for free "WITH TIME". Just by waiting two months each, you'll get them for free.
    It could easily be read 2 ways. Since the poster wrote it as /time there's nothing wrong with the assumption they meant "along with the time manipulation set"

    Without clarification, either interpretation is right, and upon reading it I was willing to call the poster incorrect myself, until I saw someone had done that already.
  18. Quote:
    = No taunt effect in damage aura
    I would not consider this a Con for Scrappers. Shedding aggro like water off a duck's back may be bad if teammates are expecting you to do something you're not designed to do, but it's great when it lets you focus on your job, which is to flip out and kill ****.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
    But you can't have those because your monthly PP need to be saved up for buying powersets. Oh of course you could just give them extra money and buy the upgrades that way, which is my whole problem with Paragons cash shop.
    Your problem really is having to choose what you want most instead of being force fed things you don't want in the order someone else chooses isn't it?

    My mind is boggled that you think being able to pick what you most want first is somehow bad for the game or it's customers.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Golden Girl View Post
    Some new power sets - not all
    Yes all. Just not all right away.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
    All Paragon needed to do was have their cash shop offer 'extras' for their subscribers, the QOL upgrades, the EXP boosters, just like the proven model of Hybrid MMO's. But apparantly pointing out that you dislike them double charging a subscriber, either in actual cash or in months paid (after all the points you save to buy a powerset, can't then be spent on the QOL upgrades), makes you open for attacks .
    Here we go again. Why are you arguing that being given the choice of what to get free and what to pay for is somehow worse that having to wait for new full issues, or paying for expansions, or paying for booster packs?

    Paragon is offering those extras free to subscribers. All those QoL extras are part and parcel of the Paragon Rewards system if you don't want to buy them at the store.

    They're not "double charging" subscribers. Nearly every new powerset added to the game since launch was charged for in one way or another initially, then made free later. That's precisely how it works now, except WOWZERS we get to choose which ones we get now and which we get later. You may not like having to make a choice, but a lot of people do, and they're not just the fans of the game. I've heard a lot of people saying they're coming back specifically because they like having all these options to choose.

    You're opening yourself for attack because you seem to think that "All of it now for Free" is a sensible option, then telling people they're fanbois for pointing out how it isn't.

    Not only is what you're saying inaccurate, it's nonsense. The attitude with which it's delivered leaves a lot to be desired too.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
    Your passive agressive attacks, make it clear that you're just a Dev Defense Force 'Yes Man' the kind that have begun to plague the boards lately, and will pretty much screw the game over in the long run. It is okay to say 'I don't like this', you don't need to ad homienem attack anyone who doesn't respond to every move the devs make with a 'Please sir can I have another'.
    The game had its 7th anniversary this year. We're in the long run now, and the thoughts of people who like most of what the devs have done hasn't driven the game into the ground before now.

    You're acting like people who are generally ok with the game's direction and say so is a new thing. I've been dealing with complainers like yourself who resort to comments like this for years. It's never been correct, and you're not correct now.

    When I disagree with something the devs do, I tell them and make sure I'm heard. However I don't pollute the forums at large with a general bad attitude that makes me sound like a troll. I agree on what I agree on, and I disagree with what I disagree with, and I'm man enough not to sulk when I turn out to be incorrect. Maybe someday you can learn to do the same.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
    The competion gives subscribers all new 'powersets' for free.

    Every hybrid MMO I've played gives subscribers classes for free.

    Your passive agressive attacks, make it clear that you're just a Dev Defense Force 'Yes Man' the kind that have begun to plague the boards lately, and will pretty much screw the game over in the long run. It is okay to say 'I don't like this', you don't need to ad homienem attack anyone who doesn't respond to every move the devs make with a 'Please sir can I have another'.
    Don't change what your argument is when someone counters your argument. You didn't try to make the point that what CoH is doing is different than what other games do. You tried to make the point that what CoH is doing now is different that what it's done in the past. It's flat out not, and the people telling you so are not Yes Men for saying so.

    You're allowed to disagree with the way they do things. But you should have your facts straight on how they did things before, and how they do things now, and how they're not really different.

    Additionally, when you bring a crappy attitude, you don't have a leg to stand on when someone calls you on it. If your posts had been reasonable and rational instead of sulky, then the person who pointed out what you said was childish would indeed have been making an ad hominem attack. Instead they were just calling a spade a spade.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
    You get Time Manipulation.

    Beam Rifle? You have to buy that.

    Street Justice? You have to buy that.

    Titan Weapon? Guess what? Yup you have to buy that.

    So yeah, now powersets are additonal cost, on top of your subscription fee.

    The 400 points a month you get? won't cover them either in a single month.
    You're making the ultra common mistake of confusing not getting them NOW for free with not getting them for free. You listed 4 powersets. 1 for free, the others available early on the store. At 800 points each, thats 1 powerset every 2 months for 6months.

    I don't know what paradigm for free new powersets you're judging this by, but there has been no stretch in the game's seven year history where they added 4 new sets for free that I can think of.

    What you're really mad about is that you need to grow some patience in order to enjoy the new stuff for free.

    I paid for my GR pre-order so I could get early access to the new powersets. If I like these new sets enough, then I will do the same again. I see no literal difference in the situation.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by T_Immortalus View Post
    Learn to read people.
    Since you opened the door to being blunt and dismissive by doing so to the people who responded to you with this comment, I will say this:

    Not until you learn to write.

    Dinging people for not understanding your point when you bury it in a lot of passive voice ******** and overused repetition, is ludicrous.

    In writing or speaking repetition is a good mechanism for emphasizing your point, but not when it's overused to the point that everything you say looks the same.

    On top of that, going on to explain in detail, without giving details and burying your meaning in convoluted language at the same time you expect people to know what aspects of the program you're referring to is not only vague, but next to impossible to parse out.

    You'd have been far better off citing the a handful of specific examples of the things you're bothered about, and explaining why they bother you.

    Telling people they're not understanding what you said when what you said isn't understandable. Do you see the irony in that?

    PS- Don't knock the value of a simple declarative sentence.

    PPS- This game has a unique F2P model because out of all the F2P games, it is in a unique position. It's not being born as F2P. It's not trying to save a sinking ship where the subscription model failed. It's got a strong core model based on subscriptions, and they want to give more to those subscribers at the same time they attract new people. They're not out to gouge anyone. They're just trying to stay true to what they have at the same time they accept the changing realities of the MMO market, and create a more efficient delivery mechanism for all the great stuff they have made.