Lady_Sadako

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There is honestly no way to make the PvP Arena a completely level playing field.

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Indeed. But you *can* adjust those aspects that depend on mathematics alone. Such as the function of a HO.

Nobody's saying that the field should be made utterly level at all times. This isn't a Communist agenda. All we want is for more people to be able to enjoy PvP, and for that to happen, we need an option to disable HOs temporarily.

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Good, Im glad we agree that this advantage is ok. Well surprise! That kind of knowledge is a result of a time investment, just as Hami O's are a result of time investment.

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Unlike experience, they can be the result of someone else's time investment, such as when they are bought off Ebay, or farmed and given to you by an SG member. Also, given that the time investment consists mostly of spamming holds and boggling at the frame rate, it's not really comparable.

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The fact that Hami O's are a tangible object, and game knowledge isn't, does not make a case to remove Hami O's from PvP.

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Once more: we're not talking about removing them. We're talking about making their function in any given bout OPTIONAL.

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I honestly don't see the developers removing the Hami O advantage from the game.

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Including an option to switch them off doesn't remove the advantage.

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Would being able to view an opponents Hami enhancement count satisfy most opponents of Hami O's in PvP?

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That's one of the proposed solutions. I think the 'no HOs option' solution is best.

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The thing about MMOs is that the reasons for things like loot and tradeskills and other such nonsense is that you need that stuff to sustain a game.

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CoH is proof positive that you can have a game without loot.

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Thus there has to be something to do when you get there.

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More endgame content, definitely. That doesn't equate to loot farming.

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But now that they have, I think that people who play a lot and have more and better enhancers have a right to the spoils of their labor.

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Absolutely. They have a right to the same PvE benefits that Hami enhancers always gave. Whether those benefits should extend into PvP, with no way to deactivate them temporarily, is another question.

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The developers put them there and based on Statesman's post, it seem like he's ok with the edge they give.

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And since that statement was made, Hami farming has skyrocketed, as has the sale of HOs on Ebay. Call me a cynic, but I don't think the Devs intended that.

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Its no different then practicing a sport or working hard to become good at something.

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It's completely different. Practicing a sport and working hard increase your abilities. Farming Hami increases the efficiency of your equipment. It's the difference between training to be a better driver and working to buy a bigger engine.

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Do away w/ the boards devs....some people don't like reading them.....just like HO's - it should be removed from existance....

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Yeah, because we've all been arguing that HOs should be removed altogether. Not a single one of us has been arguing for their OPTIONAL DEACTIVATION or anything.

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I respect and disagree with your opinion. Arguing with you has no further point since neither of us will change our opinion. Thus I will demur on responding to the substance of your post.

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I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DUEL I WON.



(sorry, had to. )

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Somebody PL this Lady to 45 so she can attend a few raids!

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One bub left.

Just trashed Diabolique.

Standing on a corner wondering why there aren't any spirits to rescue.

Team leader has sent a petition...

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And apparently missed my point, which is that restricting the ranking lists to fights with HOs enabled will give a huge advantage to those people that have the free time to farm Hamidon again and again.

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Not to mention that HOs, so far as we know, continue to work on multiple aspects of a power even when you exemplar down, though their boost is lessened. So, the woot woot loot squad will be able to use the benefits of their restricted endgame content against heroes who have no chance of facing them on an even field, even if they want to.

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Sure, but HOs don't really do that. With the unresistable criticals, I can one-two shot Blasters anyway. In fact HOs make PvP HARDER for me, not easier.

With no HOs, most Blasters can't overcome my healing rate. Some can, and a whole lot more can with HOs. I say bring it on, the risk makes it fun.

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You say all that like you'd actually ever played a bout of PvP in CoH.

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But if your not prepared to compete at that level, then don't come here asking the developers to wave their wands and make you my equal.

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Thankyou for missing the point by several miles.

Nobody is asking you to give up any of that jolly uber stuff you seem so all-out mad to get. The whole point is to increase Arena participation by increasing the number of options. I want you to have the choice of facing me with or without your loot. Simple. If you don't want to fight me without your loot, then *walk away*.

This whole situation is really reminding me of a line I keep hearing on these boards: 'stop insisting that other people play the way YOU prefer to play'.

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Whatever. Now you're making stuff up.

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Just drawing the obvious conclusion.

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I'll fight you with no HOs, but in an official tournament, you better darn well believe I want every advantage I've EARNED!

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You were insisting on keeping your HOs for *any* fight that influenced rankings earlier, not just for tournaments.

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I was addressing your 'pure skill' comment. Not balance.

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Balance is what allows skill to make the difference, as opposed to raw strength. That's the point. Okay, *pure* skill was something of an exaggeration, but you do understand the point, yes?

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So, I'll ask you the question again. Would you PvP them?

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Sure. Regular enhancements are balanced. They only affect one power at a time and they scale down with auto-exemping.

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AND would you pvp people with Titan or Hydra SO's?

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So long as they weren't afraid to fight without them as well as with them, then yes, sure. I don't respect any opponent who considers himself crippled without special enhancements. If I wanted to fight soft tissue cowering in an armoured shell, I'd go fight Nemesis.

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I'm not the one arguing for a handicap.

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No, you're the one who's apparently scared to fight without his HO crutch. If you consider yourself 'handicapped' without enhancements, then that does explain why you're raising such a fuss about other people having the *option* to remove their effect temporarily.

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I'll take on anyone, with any selection of powers and any slotting. If I lose, I lose. I'm not trying to make some mythical "even" playing field.

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It's not mythical, it's situational. The arena allows us to overcome differences in weight by choosing our options. If you're afraid to fight without your loot, that's fine, but just say so.

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You can try to turn that argument around, but the fact remains is that you gals and guys don't want to lose.

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I don't mind losing. Frankly, the person who doesn't want to lose is you. You are scared to fight on an even playing field, even if that playing field is only even because a temporary selection of options has made it so.

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You think that your skills are so great that ONLY if they would not have these HOs, I could win.

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That's a ridiculous thing to say before the first PvP blow has even been thrown. I might be able to beat you with HOs; I might not. But I would love to find out how much of a difference your HOs really make.

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Well, you can't.

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Prove it. Set aside your HOs for a bout or two and let's see.

Bottom line is this. I'm willing to fight you with or without HOs active. You're only willing to fight me with HOs active. Conclusion: you're scared to lose.

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You will never have a pvp fight based on pure skill. To get that you and your opponent would need to have the exact same powers/slots/enhancements/gaming experience.

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Wrong. You'd only need to face an opponent who was playing a class that was balanced (check) and which had the same options to expend slots (check).

The fact that *complete* balance can't be attained doesn't make balance any less of a worthy goal. What do you think all this pre-testing is *for*? Also, it doesn't mean that since some imbalance is inevitable, a huge imbalance is just as acceptable as a small one.

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Now, what if you face an opponent with all + or ++ enhancements? If you dont have or cant afford them isnt that a "non skill based numerical boost to his abilities"?

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Of course it is. It's a non skill based numerical boost, whether I have it or not. The difference, obviously, is that it's an entirely different category of boost, which is not 'killer'.

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You just want to manage your risk down to zero so you can live out your superhero fantasies in another venue.

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Who is insisting on reduced risk? A person who wants to face another on a basis of pure skill, or a person who insists on keeping a non skill based numerical boost to his abilities at all times?

If you're so keen on risk and challenge, come out from behind your HOs and face an opponent whose actions you can't predict.

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I don't think rank matches should have ANY restrictions whatsoever. Not just HOs.

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They should have whatever restrictions the participants themselves CHOOSE to place on them, INCLUDING HOs. Choice is a two-way thing. If you don't want to play in a bout with no travel powers, then don't agree to have travel powers switched off. If it becomes an issue, then go fight someone else.

An option to deactivate HOs doesn't restrict your gameplay at all. If we don't want to fight Hammied-out heroes, we don't have to. If you don't want to fight without your percentile boosts, then you don't have to.

I'm seeing quite a lot of 'OMG what if all our farming was for NOTHING?' here. If people have been rushing to farm Hami for an advantage that they *believe* they will get in the Arena before PvP has even gone to test, well, more fool them.

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1. A no-HO option for PvP, and


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That's cool so long as you can't earn any rankings or badges in such matches. If you want the reward fight your real opponent, not an artificially debuffed one.

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Every time you fight someone 20 levels below you, you will be 'artificially debuffed' to their level, and you will still get rankings from such matches.

Remember, a no HOs option would be just that - an *option*. If you are scared to face an opponent without having a selection of percentile increases on your side, then don't take that risk.

As far as I can tell, badges are only for officially sanctioned tournaments.

Get your dice out, folks...

'Eden Studios announces today an agreement with Cryptic Studios (TM) and NCsoft® Corporation for the design and production of the City of Heroes® table-top roleplaying game (RPG), based on the wildly popular comic book inspired massively multiplayer online roleplaying computer game by the same name. City of Heroes computer game released last year to critical acclaim and continues to garner awards for its groundbreaking innovation.'

Here's the press release PDF!

George Vasilakos' influence is already felt in CoH, of course, as many pre-level-20s know...

I remember the awe of finding a bright purple, level 23 force field generator on a rooftop, which belonged to some group called the Sky Raiders. I gingerly fired a Mental Blast at it, half expecting to be stomped from above. It missed. Nothing happened. I think I was around level 10 at the time.

I remember the sense of wonder and dread as I pondered who the Sky Raiders might be. This indestructible silver device was all they had left behind. What were they? Aliens? Pirates? It seemed like it would be forever before I would find out.

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Ah That is a big difference between us, rank doesn't concern me at all,

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It only concerns me in so far as as I don't want some bozo earning 'bragging rights' because he pulled out a metaphorical howitzer.

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Yes I see your point. But So what?

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So the defeat goes on his record, and his rank drops accordingly.

UNLESS.

wait a minute. maybe this is what the mysterious post earlier on was about.

Maybe not all fights will *be* ranked? Maybe you can choose to just have a 'friendly' before you actually play for points?

That would... well. It would make quite a difference. I don't care overmuch if someone pwnz my stormy self a dozen times over, HOs or not, if the fight isn't actually *counting* for anything.

Oh gawd, I'm such a dork. Of *course* they will be letting us have friendly matches that don't contribute to the ranking. How else are supergroup members supposed to train against one another? How else would the RPers be able to have their IC spats?

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LOL I dont think thats a fair comparison, but lets say he did go and discover he was facing a howitzer, he then has the choice, do I yield or give it a go.

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But he's already agreed to the bout, and the first thing he knew of the howitzer's existence would be when it hit him. Game over, man, game over.

See what I'm driving at? Without some way to either disable HOs temporarily or detect their presence in advance of agreeing to a fight, the first thing you notice will be the ungodly amounts of damage you are taking, following which it's too *late* to choose not to go through with it.

Yes, I admit that's a worst-case scenario, and the majority of PvPers won't have a full gun case full of HOs, but I think you see my point.

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at best they will improve an existing enh by 15% thats enough for flavor but thats it.

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O_O

sir, with respect - please check your facts!

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I was just talking to my brother about this (he is a AAA rated competitive fencer) And he changed my mind, If your going to go into competitions, you do have to take a risk.

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Of course you do. That's the thrill of it.

But there's also the point that you should be able to choose how MUCH risk you are willing to face. Your brother doesn't go into fencing bouts on the understanding that his opponent might have a howitzer.

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If I go to fight you I have no way of knowing what martial arts you know or whether you have a hiden weapon or not.

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This is an Arena we're talking about, not a street brawl. These fights are *arranged*.

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It's a risk.

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So are you saying that in order to find out who has Hami-Os, so that we can choose not to fight them, we'll have to fight them first?

That seems a little bit circular to me.

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It seems, what you're arguing for is an extra option. So long as it is an option, and you can choose whether to allow them or not I guess I can agree to that. More options are always better.

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Another option is all I've ever argued for.