Kyriani
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Posts
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Joined
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Time/Sonic/Power on SO's is pretty impressive if built right...
About 40% personal defense to everything perma with power build up/farsight (also includes weave and hover but I am not counting either being affected by power build up)
About 65% s/l resistance with tough and temp invuln
Farsight gives your whole group 30% defense to everything and nearly 25% to-hit buff
Cone Sleep - great for soloing and can be useful in groups when unintended aggro is drawn.
Temporal Selection buff is always appreciated by groups (could skip this and take Single target mag 3 stun, stackable to stun most bosses instead for solo play)
Single target mag 3 hold, stackable to hold most bosses... holds most bosses for a few seconds with 1 application if you Time Crawl them first
Panic button in Force of Nature that almost soft caps your resistance to all damage except psi
Sonic Blasts have built in -20% res debuffs
Endurance is manageable... moreso if you get the end affecting accolades
You can easily fit in stealth and travel powers
Here's an example on purely SO's:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Defender
Primary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Shriek -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(7)
Level 2: Scream -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(9), EndRdx(11), RechRdx(11)
Level 4: Howl -- Acc(A), Dmg(13), Dmg(13), Dmg(15), EndRdx(15), RechRdx(17)
Level 6: Fly -- EndRdx(A)
Level 8: Time's Juncture -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48), ToHitDeb(48), ToHitDeb(48)
Level 10: Temporal Mending -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), EndRdx(39), EndRdx(40), Heal(40), Heal(40)
Level 12: Time Stop -- Acc(A), Hold(17), Hold(23), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(27)
Level 14: Distortion Field -- RechRdx(A)
Level 16: Shout -- Acc(A), Dmg(29), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), Range(31), Range(33)
Level 18: Farsight -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(19), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(21), RechRdx(23)
Level 20: Temporal Selection -- Heal(A), Heal(27), Heal(29), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(43), RechRdx(43)
Level 22: Hover -- EndRdx(A)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc(A)
Level 26: Slowed Response -- Acc(A), RechRdx(34), RechRdx(37)
Level 28: Siren's Song -- Acc(A), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(39)
Level 30: Tough -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(34), ResDam(34), ResDam(37)
Level 32: Chrono Shift -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(33), RechRdx(33)
Level 35: Power Build Up -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(36)
Level 38: Weave -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(43), DefBuff(46), DefBuff(50)
Level 41: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(42), ResDam(42), ResDam(46)
Level 44: Force of Nature -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(45), RechRdx(45), ResDam(45), ResDam(46)
Level 47: Amplify -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(50), RechRdx(50)
Level 49: Stealth -- EndRdx(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(3), EndMod(3)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Code:Now if it's THAT GOOD on SO's imagine how much better it can be when using IO's to break the game| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1494;572;1144;HEX;| |78DA75946B6FD25018C74F6901A1B051C62E6C4CB6E974305721FADEA853632286A| |86F0DE958C1136B59D64EDD4BBFD03E87BEF7BA2DEA17F0F20DEAC3CEFF602F5993| |E677FA7FAEE7E9693B6FB70B470FDEDD62CAD45DC7F2BCDEB63DB0DD5D7B3FDDB18| |6BCCFC65796EEBAD47B770E0603F3197F65F73A96CBF70E1CCBE723B736B13FB1DC| |A1BD6B3E1DB9BCDFBBEDFB56FF25D3BBA39163DE77F8F0856F9CAD1FBAAFB9C777B| |8C3FDC3A2B08E8DDC1D16F0E4BBB6E795EFEDF1BED91DBDA1C41DCBF3EDFDC305EA| |A641F7C70AC315086454769C9A68AAD43435CA0C7842BE8AF04D2B2C6ABB10633E0| |B1A82A714AB2256456C418D724A12B125C4EAF49C46DF69D83E57C494C77D67A15D| |97AC46F9897C73A89D43CE2B9288B92A998FF21BC5EA88D5D17749179C03178C281| |7C1AF145B44DF4568DF690ED3C8378D7C35ECFB629C25C115F098F2198A883534A1| |952591BF12E31CF88562675077067B5B046B6003BECD1873349B595197CD624E0A7| |11E7B9BC73E4EA8465568A92AB455E4B80CFEA4FD2FC16789456DF29DA8947B59D4| |5397516F55B28C18F0946AD691AF8EF89518DFD33CD77056D6A05D3A871AD55947E| |D75D46C825B98751BFC407937E0BB019F8624FADB028FE8206C8A1EB44DD4BA1667| |2CE607CDCAC4DE4CF8B4632C52BD16DE430BB56B5AE83B0FE862CD84D24A28ED847| |223A1DC4C288F12CAE3B122A61274B5C91F832967D65C69F21F087ED1B95394B0F5| |4F58C1A9FC9DF0FAFB5F492919E1958AB19B977FB920781E5A5BA1F54E68FD0FEDC| |6C3CC| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:Have you considered putting that apocalypse in dark blast? The proc from it and another damage proc from the accurate to-hit buff set could shore up it's damage a bit to make it relatively decent. Then use 5 pc sting of the manticore in moonbeam for 7.5% recharge ^_^Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Good-bye, Gloom. I won't miss you and your DoT! If I could dump Dark Blast instead of you, I would, but I can't. And leave that Apocalypse Set on the way out the door.
Why, hello there, Moon Beam. So nice to see you again. May I offer you a nice set of Apocalypse I happen to have handy? You try this on while I find a Kismet:ToHit. You can talk to Tactics in the meantime, that's the one wearing a full set of Gaussian.
Just off hand putting apoc in DB, SotM in MB and the ATO set in LD gives you two medium strength damage blasts and the snipes big damage for a fairly nice attack chain. As a bonus not only will Life Drain heal you but it'll have a chance to proc the ATO pbaoe heal as well! Less stopping to pew pew for Twilight Grasp then! -
Here's something I threw together. Not sure if it's what you want but it seems decent and should be ok to level with it and do well at endgame. It softcaps melee range and aoe without the alpha boost. Hasten is not far from perma without alpha and just a 4 seconds shy of perma with agility (or 1 sec shy of perma with spiritual core), for more shield charging fun. Regen is decent (about 25 hp/sec) as well as max hp (1890). Endurance is very manageable.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Battle Axe
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Chop- (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (3) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (5) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (5) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (9) Titanium Coating - Resistance
- (11) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance
- (11) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (7) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (48) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (15) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (17) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
- (17) Aegis - Resistance
- (19) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (19) Aegis - Endurance/Recharge
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
- (21) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
- (23) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
- (23) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
- (25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (25) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (29) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (27) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage
- (39) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance
- (40) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge
- (40) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge
- (40) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (A) Accuracy IO
- (A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
- (42) Aegis - Resistance
- (42) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance
- (45) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (45) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
- (43) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (43) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
- (46) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (46) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (50) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (A) Obliteration - Damage
- (34) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
- (34) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (45) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (36) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (36) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (36) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (A) Resist Damage IO
- (39) Resist Damage IO
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO
- (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All)
- (A) Accuracy IO
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO
- (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 2: Swift- (A) Flight Speed IO
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (31) Miracle - Heal
- (33) Miracle - Heal/Endurance
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (A) Jumping IO
- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (29) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
- (31) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
- (31) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
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Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1494;674;1348;HEX;| |78DA6D93D952134114867B988998846C40C24E5804B23124C08D7B89A085922AAC9| |4DEA652D024D15448252905EF7C05ADD21750D41B1FC4F5495CAEDDC299FC3F818B| |4CD5D4D7F3779F3EFF393D9D3D58EFFB70FBD97565F86F560A8D463EB7532FD46AB| |AEECA168AE51DE53CBDF28E9CE8F9ACAE686DAF159ACD8ACEDF38D0D1CECCBADED3| |D586B673A5B2AEEC9E7C8636AB255DD7D5A67D32F06EEFEF57EC5B9572B1D4F461E| |C0CCBD5625FFB6B4B176AF2E1697FE46A5AEF86366AE51D7B6D7FF7309F2D349ABA| |7E382C9E62F2FA238A4FCB52C91EA5326ED5932017402B46C6418F4F961BED18970| |A1B6DEDDC20783E48DAA027412E8281084325D6D853882D827D25B20CFA1F824B8F| |A84B5E9379CDFBD8CF7F0F0CE6C8558796EA4F93CB6050F2BA98D7F51A750CBE218| |FC0C5B7E0D23BF23D188AE00C9DD85E7A8ED073849E87E979989EC7E9D92B9EDDF0| |DCE366AF46D9AB51F6CA276BBC58A3BC49C649421F722ADF98895A450818465B0B4| |C63DD80780BF1FC428FA1CD3F01170EC843F22968C8DE03DC7B60149A295A181EAC| |F08A0C26DC2ABE0A7FF134981A72744BA596CD764F2D8919626D43AC2DCEDA12AC6| |D50FC8DB077231F5147E233F9095CFC427E0533DFC0A0D43BC6BE8C71FF88E49C60| |CE096AF3CC9961CEB0E48C3267F40FCE70FA2FF90FBCF09F6C8129859C21C939C37| |ECE5CC5DCEC15F2227989B197C17E8999438C3197E219903913F7CCA921C6B33D92| |F549D695BC865ECF485D3634C3E6BA0C1990F569AE4FDF85CF71AB736F95E21946A| |DCEBD6C25CECEF35F4977D1325DB4952EDA6A176DEBAC66A217DB56E77E2B83FEDD| |41E574B7EDEBBB47E6598B318BF99FA79ACBB8238305B79ADC04A73648DEF729DEF| |7E907E08FB3FBC5B0DFAF53CD349EC3D7F80B70F225F90A6C759EDFF2D764E8F218| |FE5BC2F9| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Quote:The gunslinger belt/skirt is the same way... another way to affect the color is to set the creator to use the same colors for all parts option and that will change them for you... probably best to do that first then turn it off and individually customize colors to tasteOriginally Posted by Droid76a
There is no direct way to change the inside colors of the bridal veil (female-->hair --> bridal veil) Like capes, it has inside and outside colors.
I messed around with changing hair, adding a cape, and changing those inside colors, but without any luck. I finally did it the easy indirect way by saving the costume, finding the part, and changing color #4.
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Human form PB's are very viable these days... especially if you build for perma lightform
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I'm not certain Arbiter Hawk is planning to return to this topic but here's another question:
Would the devs be opposed to giving Blasters a 5% passive to-hit in Defiance? (and Dominators 5% to-hit during Domination?)
Just that 5% puts Blasters (and Dominators) on pretty even footing with Corruptors and Defenders with how much effort would be required to hit a sustained 22% to-hit value to take advantage of the snipe mechanics. -
Quote:/Energy Manip can indeed do what you're suggesting ^_^ oh the fun we shall have if this actually goes live... and isn't "Hybrided"Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
(Completely unrelated, if the understanding that Energy Manip can get this effect perma'd via Power Boosted Tactics is correct, I am entertained to think of Moonbeam as a T4; coupled with Boost Range, it has a range of ~280 feet wihout range slotting and a recharge of 12, probably reducible to around 4.5-5 or so with a good build).
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Quote:Yep it can work, though why bother with Kismet at all when you can simply Power Build Up Farsight for uber defense AND to-hit! But its not much different from what other power sets or AT's have to do when you really look at it.Originally Posted by Oliin
That's why I said, "Well along with a kismet."
Assuming I'm looking at mids correctly though a kismet and farsight slotted enough for to-hit gets you to 22% by itself even for a corruptor. Won't be up constantly unless you're using IOs or HOs and the like though. HOs work fantastically in it for both corruptors and defenders but titan origins only seem to work for defenders(gets you to 21.5% or so on a corruptor). Still, you can slot them at 37 I believe and they give to-hit, recharge and defense. Not terribly strange slotting I don't think.
Like I mentioned in my previous post if they give Blasters a passive 5% to-hit buff in Defiance, and give Dominators a 5% to-hit buff when Domination is up, then those AT's don't have to do anything really different from Corruptors and Defenders to hit that 22% plateau. -
Quote:No system will be equitable unless they tailor it to each specific AT or use the aggro mechanics you describe. The devs, however, seem to be reluctant to use such a system (assuming it's even possible within the game engine). The AT's are too diverse to make sure every AT of every power set combination has the exact same opportunity to achieve the perma-fast snipe.Originally Posted by Biospark
I am amazed at some things that are being stated. Glad that we have this opportunity though to hash it out for all to see.
Many of the "opponents" of perma-fast snipes are also saying that it will not be that great of an improvement. Ok then, why would you be opposed to a more sensible system that is fair across all ATs. Tied to +ToHit like it seems to be, is flat out favoring certain builds and AT/powersets.
And IF, this is not that great of a boost (which, I am sorry, IT IS), why does it surprise anyone that people will build for it. They will. The problem is that whatever system is used should be just as "Achievable" for any snipe-using Powerset AND any Snipe-using AT. The current porposal IS NOT EQUITABLE.
The more I think on this, the more I am in-line with Arcanaville. If you currently have no aggro, then the attack should do Double Damage to its target AND have the interrupt. IF you have some aggro OR you are under the effects of ANY "to-hit" Buff (regardless of value), then it becomes a standard, non-interruptable attack with some value around its current one, perhaps slightly lowered becuase of activation rules. THEN, people could take the attack and use it either way, but it would only be stellar dmg AS A SNIPE.
With that said... simply giving Blasters 5% to-hit passively in Defiance and, in doms case give 5% hit when dom is up, brings a level of parity amongst most of the AT's and power set combos. Sure a few will still have an edge... most notably /Devices Blasters as well as Defenders and Corruptors due to their higher base values for buffs, but in general everyone would be able to achieve the perma-fast snipe without too different an investment.
Blasters that aren't Devices would need tactics and a kismet. (or rely on cycling Aim and Buildup with high recharge)
Defenders/Corruptors would need tactics and a kismet (with some variations based on powerset choices like the Farsight/Power Buildup combo)
Dominators would need tactics and a kismet (with Domination or Link Minds up)
That sounds about as close to equitable as we can hope for to be honest (assuming the to-hit mechanic stays). -
Quote:Well to answer that question, If the snipe's damage is reduced when it's non-interruptable, that doesn't mean it's damage will be bad. Stalkers are quite happy to hit Assassin Strike even when not in Hide these days. It may not have the "oooh ahhh" factor of a Hidden Assassin's Strike but it's a nice button to hit regardless.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
At that point you might as well just make the snipe become a T4 blast for everyone regardless of ToHit. Which I would be fine with. I'd also be fine with the reverse, just putting the numbers outside of reach with Tactics so no one gets it perma. Whatever they want to do.
But setting it up so a T4 blast is locked behind hitting a magic number that isn't particularly hard to hit means most everyone is going to distort their builds just enough to hit it. That's not choice except in the sense that you have the choice of whether to build intelligently.
There is a new statement that just entered this thread recently that suggests maybe it won't be that bad because the power won't hit that hard, which really just kind of raises the question: if it doesn't hit that hard why would anyone take the Snipe at all, especially if it was intended that you only get that not very good damage boost only part of the time?
In the case of snipes, The reduced damage if used as "part of your typical attack chain" could very well be the trade off from it being a "big hit from afar with a long cast time". Maybe the damage will be less than a tier 3 blast but higher than your tier 2? Maybe exactly the same as tier 3? I am sure there's quite a few reasons to take it in those cases, like say Electric Blast, or Those who prefer to skip the tier 1 blasts and want a full attack chain with a harder hitting attack. We still need more information on how these changes will be implemented exactly.
But for all we know the damage will stay exactly as it is whether fast or slow. It's really hard to say without more info.
I think the point, however, is that giving up a three power choices (snipe, maneuvers, tactics), several slots and having to use a specific IO just to achieve that perm-fast snipe may not always be worth it. Or may not be possible when trying to accomplish something specific with your build (like high recharge or soft capped defenses).
It's a trade off to be sure depending on your desires. If the devs just gave Blasters passive 5% hit in Defiance then they can achieve the perma-fast snipe without outside help at considerable personal investment (much like some dom's go for perma dom without hasten through excessive passive recharge so they can autofire it and forget about it). It's not just handed to them. Not everyone will choose to make that investment even if they are educated enough to know the ramifications of that choice. There are several other factors that determine a character's viability besides how optimal its single target attack chain is. -
Quote:You can't get to 22% on Farsight alone. You'd need to use the Kismet at the very least even as a defender. Farsight's to-hit buff is the same value as tactics for defenders.Originally Posted by Oliin
Huh, you know I never take the psi APP on my dominators so that was just completely off my radar. Though with time can't you get to 22% just from Farsight alone eventually? Well along with a kismet.
And I stand corrected. Average joe blaster can build to perma-fast snipe if they build for (I believe) 350% recharge(including enhancements).
Now if you take power buildup from the power mastery APP you can far and away exceed that (and of course make the defense buff uber too) without using the kismet. That still necessitates a specific power from a specific APP.
Defenders by nature are the best at buffing so it makes sense they have an easier time hitting that cap. Corruptors have lower base values but still decent so they too can hit it with Farsight and a kismet but they may have to slot their Farsight oddly to push over into the 22% margin unless they go with power buildup instead (which would seem to be the wiser choice). That any dom can do it at all is pretty remarkable. -
For a more positive suggestion... The devs could simply have Defiance provide a passive +5% hit buff. That alone makes it so Tactics + Kismet will hit the 22% plateau and it's a Blaster exclusive buff giving them some sort of parity compared to the other AT's that have higher base numbers or more support powers to hit the 22% mark. It's also a small but nice buff to Blasters of all shapes and sizes.
The devs could do the same for domination (have it give 5% to hit) if they don't want to outright provide fast-snipe during its duration. -
Quote:I am not saying we shouldn't discuss it. Simply that we shouldn't lose our cool over it and scream "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!". When all is said and done, the devs just aren't going to hand us IWIN buttons and call it a day. If Hybrid's released form is any indication, most of us hoping for perma-fast snipe awesomsauce will probably be highly disappointed with the outcome of all this LOL! For all we know when snipes are fast they do half damage or some such. Just look at how assassin strike works.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
I don't know that people are asking for that specifically. Most of them that do not like what we can see so far because of how the to hit requirement would work or what it encourages in builds (and the setup does encourage people to want and go for perma insta-snipe). To be honest, I mostly just wanted Snipes to have their animation/interrupt times justified. If they could have dropped a minion at least with their old setup and a lieutenant with build up (for Blasters), I would have been more happy with them.
What we have now is something different entirely. If the devs want to give us a potential fast snipe, I'm fine with the concept, I just want it to work better across the various powersets that have snipes.
I agree that the system we can see is far from perfect, but I can't go with you on waiting to see to discuss it. We have some info and players are going to hash it over, that's what the forums are for. If the devs didn't want to, they're perfectly capable of keeping mum about it. Arbiter Hawk has kept his thoughts pretty close to the vest in the past (we're getting much more talk from him ahead of time on these snipe/ranged changes than Kheldians got when changes were actually on beta!). If the devs didn't want us to talk these over, they wouldn't have said anything.
We'll certainly need to see what hits beta to critique that, but until then, we go with what we have. -
Quote:EVERY dominator can have perma snipe. Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds. Sure that means you're pigeonhold into psi APP in some cases, just like time users are pigeonhold into powerboost/powerbuildup.Originally Posted by Oliin
My only real problem with this entire thing is that for non /dev and /em blasters or pretty much any dominator it's pretty much impossible to build for perma-fast snipes. It's something that only really exists in the realm of defenders and corruptors (and the aforementioned /dev or /em blasters) and there's the chance dominators will be able to build for it through perma-domination by the end of this.
I have zero problem with perma-fast snipes being an only sometimes thing that's tied to using aim or build up(did people actually complain about having to use aim and build up? That's just silly), but why does that need to only apply to blasters and dominators? If it's supposed to be a sometimes only mechanic then let it be sometimes only for everyone or let everyone make the hard build choices to take multiple powers and slot them excessively in order to get it on all the time.
In the end we'll get what we'll get and it's no real skin off my back since all my blasters either don't have a snipe or are either /dev, /em or /mm. It just seems odd to me since on the surface it looks like it's supposed to be an occasional thing but then it doesn't have to be for two whole ATs.
/dark blasters can hit the 22% mark as well... that leaves /mental, /elec, /ice and /fire who can't do perma... or can they? With enough recharge any /mental, /elec, /ice or /fire who have aim in their primary can have virtually perma snipes by cycliing aim and build up. Failing that ANY blaster who cant hit the 22% mark can get enough +to-hit on their own that they can exceed it with a single tiny acc insp.
EDIT: By no means am I saying the system is perfect... far from it, but I do believe we need to wait and see EVERYTHING that's coming with this change before we can adequately critique it. -
Quote:I thought we had one... you know Battle Axe... for Tankers and Brutes..Originally Posted by Rubberlad
So Hubby and I saw Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter today (fun film, good solid summer entertainment), and I came away thinking, if there's an MMO game that could do an axe wielding powerset on the level it was used in this movie, it's this CoH.
Assuming anyone else has seen AL:VH, would you agree that axe wielding might be a worthwhile powerset to implement here? -
Quote:That's how I do it! Though... that amounts to Blind, Spectral Wounds, Power Blast over and over on my ill/rad/primal controller >_> The Phantom Army and the Phantasm do their own thing... though I do have to hit the Phantom Army button every 58 seconds or so. But sometimes... sometimes I don't summon any pets and just hold the whole mess with power boosted em pulse + flash (with hold procs!)) and wreck it without their help!Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Here's the 'attack rotation' of nearly everyone playing this game:
"Uh, what's up? *MASH* Now what's up? *MASH*"
repeat until the mission ends. -
Quote:Also keep in mind it's highly likely that, when this change goes live, the tooltip on all snipes will likely tell you about the 22% to-hit plateau making even non forum goers aware of it and if they can do simple math they should be able to deduce how to achieve that for their AT/power set combo.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Yes, but other target numbers (perma-hasten, defense softcaps) could be deduced from data in-game. And none altered anything as central to the character as their attack rotation.
I'm aware that people who study resources available outside the game itself will always have the edge. They just usually aren't handed advantages this big and this easily attainable.
Thought experiment - acknowledging that this is an advantage in DPS, how much is too much? I'll admit, if after all my hemming and hawing adding perma-snipe only means 5% more damage, I'll drop my argument as a false alarm. At 15% I'd feel vindicated, and 10% I'd still argue something should be done. Where do other people stand on this? -
Quote:Those who take the time to educate themselves have always and will always have the advantage. This has been true from day one and will be true until the end of time. No specific change in the game mechanics will change this. There are people who have *gasp* never heard of, let alone used Mid's!!! Can you believe it!!!??? And somehow... someway... they've managed to get past level 20! (I'm not trying to be snide there... just funny. Although even I can't imagine how anyone plays without Mid's. >.>)Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
That gets around the Blaster and Dom difficulty achieving +22% to hit, but not the "+30% damage for reading the forums" issue. It also undoes, or at least massively reduces, the buff to Devices. I'm also afraid of people seeing some groups with 101% to hit ("Let's go kill Captain Mako!"), speccing out of Tactics, and then having the whole thing turn into a round of Buff-Bringer blame game when nobody has fast snipes.
Yeah, I'm paranoid, but I figure this is the kind of paranoia to bring up when the change is in pre-beta. -
Quote:Perhaps the devs will simply let those ranged AT's that have snipes and have the lowest values on to-hit buffs use the corruptor table for those values instead. It's something they said they might do for Blasters since their base values are so abysmally low (though they do seem reluctant to do so). If the devs went this route then everyone except defenders would generally be on even footing for difficulty to perma using Tactics and kismet. Defenders and those with various +to-hit self buffs would have the advantage due to their higher base values for buffs and/or more stacking potential but I doubt anyone would hold a grudge over them for it. That might be the answer to everyone's issues.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
An excellent, excellent approach to have as a player. But not as a developer, the people I'm hoping may get this opinion forwarded to them at some point. (No, I don't expect all my whims to be fulfilled, but they seem to want feedback, so I'm giving it.) I think the developers should be concerned about how everybody plays the game, and very specifically about the fact that (IMHO) this change will create a distinct break between folks who read the forums and folks who just play the game. The relative ease with which +22% hit is achieved (on Corruptors and Defenders), plus the comparatively high power of perma-fast snipe, means folks who hit an arbitrary target become substantially more powerful.
And since the breaking point is a hard cap with no indications or documentation, it very, VERY heavily favors wiki and forum readers. A guy who just looks at abilities and set bonuses could figure out that perma-hasten is good and work towards it (plus it'll get better as he gets closer). A Super Reflexes tank can look at his combat stats and compare it to some enemy scans to figure out that he is, in fact, stacking too much +def. But this all-or-nothing, undocumented change simply cannot be deduced from data in-game. And the benefits for achieving it, based on Arcanaville's numbers, seem really substantial. *shrug* I think that's the kind of situation the developers are hoping to avoid. -
Quote:Honestly? The devs said they chose to-hit because it was something that exists across the board for all AT's and something every snipe user has access to in some fashion (whether you can perma it or not). Otherwise they'd have to create individual methods for snipes to work for each AT. We've already seen the specter of that possibility crop up with devs mentioning potentially letting snipes be perma-fast during domination... and of course no doms have any problem with that since most high end dom builds result in perma dom anyways so no extra effort has to be made there.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Wow, what a... meaningless statement? Seriously, someone posts their opinion of a game change based on how the game works, and that's how you respond (with your opinion)? I'll be sure to do the same to you at some point... or not, actually, since I generally try to understand the point of view from others and at least talk from there. I believe this is one of the more rude and insulting things I have ever seen you post, and you're not really known for doing so, at least in my experience.
There are posts (and an entire thread) examining what gives to hit in the game already and people are talking about restructuring their builds entirely to accommodate this snipe change. Is it as bad as non-inherent Fitness, as Kyriani has brought up? No, it's not. But it's the same kind of thinking, which the devs were supposedly trying to remove from the game by giving inherent fitness. Why encourage it with something that is supposed to be an improvement to a power that is seen as needing of a buff?
If I24 went live with the changes to Snipe we know of, are there any other attacks in the game that require so many other power picks or build approaches to use? And I'm not talking obvious things like damage or accuracy here, so don't get sidetracked for that. Assassin's Strike, tier 3 blasts, melee attacks, etc., all get their mechanics working from themselves or the set they are in. Can you imagine needing to take a power pool to use the various mechanics of Assassin's Strike?
Why is it better for Snipes to suddenly break this approach? There are more ways to limit an insta-snipe than with a to hit requirement, and ways to buff Devices with Snipes as well. Why is this the best approach?
Again, keep in mind that the majority of people arguing for adjustments to the snipe proposal are not saying it's a terrible thing. They're saying it could work better and have stronger implementation. There is a lot of negativity coming from the other side arguing for the snipe changes as is that suggests we don't like the idea of snipe changes at all. Or something. I'm not sure what merits the negativity I keep seeing from posters in this and other threads.
As for the "you don't HAVE to build for insta-snipe," that thinking can certainly work for some people. But many people like things to be simple and to use a good power as often as they can. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of the groups and arguing which group is a larger percentage of players is needless and moot. You can easily cater to the "I want things simple or I feel the need to build for insta-snipe" crowd while satisfying the "you don't have to" group. How? That's been posted on plenty. This post is long enough already.
Can we expect the devs to do something like that for every AT on an individual basis? I don't know. That's not only a lot of work but may be difficult since the AT's are all so different. Using domination is easy since it is already a click that isn't up all of the time out of the box (but can be made perma with the right build).
On the same token the devs may decide that since most doms do go for perma-dom that adding perma-fast snipes to it would just be too good to give them... especially when they DO have an alternative build method to achieve the perm-fast snipe using the 22% plateau. That method involves far more investment than just letting your already perma-dom do the work for you and the devs may well decide they'd prefer that. -
Quote:I try not to worry about what other people think of how I play or how other people decide to play the game even if it differs from my own way.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Pillory me for this if you like, but...I'd actually prefer that. Nethergoat is talking about how casual players will only encounter this as an occasional fast snipe when they hit Build Up or Aim. If that's what the devs want it to be - please make it that way. (And clarifying - plus perma fast-snipe for AR, since that also seems to be the goal.)
If they want it to be perma in parties of, say, 4 or more, make it that way. Don't trust things to sort themselves out, because people will be irate when they do not. Kyriani was mentioning the idea of Blasters taking tactics themselves and stacking that to achieve perma fast-snipe - which two or three Blasters could indeed do. But I'm getting a vision of everybody taking Tactics to achieve this, then a bunch of people dropping it because "everybody has it", then a bunch of complaining about parties no longer giving the buff.
If the plateau were some stupidly high number (say, the 40% that Aim gives), then it would be a much simpler matter. The amount of +hit needed would be substantially beyond any readily achievable or, frankly, useful number, and snipes would revert to the intermittently-useful attack the devs intended. Again, feel free to hate me for saying it, but I'd rather see that than people shaking there heads at newbs using non-snipe rotations or people getting angry when a party doesn't give them perma-snipe. Saves me much stress in the long run. What other people can do or decide to do really has little to do with me what I can do or what I decide to do.
-
Quote:I guess I just see it differently. Yes the snipes are high damage attacks. And yes I can understand the desire to only use the highest damaging attacks as part of your rotation. But just because you choose not to or find the investment to get to perma-fast snipes prohibitive, doesn't mean your character is now "gimped" and "not viable". It simply means your attack chain uses one attack thats lower dps than the snipe... and if you took the snipe even using moderate abilities like Aim or simple yellow inspirations allows you to use that attack for a little while in the heat of battle. And of course the non-fast snipe still serves its age old role of being a nice opener.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
The snipe change amounts to the strongest attack. In every power pool that has one. And with a ~6 sec recharge, it is an attack that will be used very, very often. I would, indeed argue that using your set's best attack is "required" and "game changing," at least for builds with any airs of being optimized. Put it this way - Blaze is, far and away, the best DPA in Fire Blast (the best DPS set in the game right now). Would you concede Blaze is "required" and "game changing" for Fire Blast? Because every set with a snipe just picked up something on par with Blaze, provided they hit the (also useful) +22% to hit.
Not disagreeing that this is not as far-reaching as fitness - for starters, it only affects three archetypes. But the matters are ones of degree and not kind. The arguments you made against this - choices should be available, just because it's good doesn't mean you need it, think of what you're giving up - can be used to argue against any overly-useful combination of optional powers. At what point does the combination become too useful? I think tying it to your most powerful rotation attack, the one that will be cast 9-10 times per minute, is too much - and you disagree.
I don't think the devs are looking at snipes in the way you do. I don't believe hey don't intend it to be part of your (or anyone elses) primary attack chain. That it's possible to make it so is a more of a side benefit with creative building and using rare IO's in some cases. Not for nothing but this discussion could very well cause the devs to push that to-hit plateau HIGHER simply to make perma-fast snipes impossible. -
Quote:As I've said earlier... I do not believe the devs intend for you to have perma-fast snipes out of the box. I believe they intend for you to build for that if you decide it is worth the investment. If you decide not to do so the snipes are still useful. Too many people here seem to believe that if the snipe is not perma-fast it is not useful. I disagree. Especially considering the number of tools available to have that fast snipe available fairly often even if not perma.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
OK. So they can use their best rotation attack, with a ~6 sec recharge (slotted), maybe...20% of the time? (10 sec of aim with a 45 sec recharge) Oh, but Blasters will also have Build Up on the same cooldown. So 40% there. Power Build Up is...10 sec every 120 seconds. 30% for that guy. And this is *after* stacking a bunch of hit but missing an arbitrary cutoff.
As opposed to huffing purples and/or oranges to simply survive? Because no AT ever has to do that... And your core rotation does NOT, I repeat, DOES NOT require you to have the snipe as part of it regardless of how much you or anyone else wishes it to be just because it does higher damage. Too many people here have stars in their eyes over this new strong attack and then those stars get replaced with tears when they realize the effort needed to actually make it perma.Quote:Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Yes, I suppose they can just huff yellows constantly. But there is no other ability, anywhere in the game, that changes my core rotation based on inspiration usage. And how has the suggestion "just be constantly inspiration-buffed" been received in other situations it's been offered as an answer?
Or it could be the teams full of blasters with tactics stacking it to make them all uber and telling the defenders and corruptors to go F themselves? (I'm sure at least one blaster player smiled reading that he he)Quote:Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Oh, and teams? You mean the team that is now full of Blasters who are now counting on my Corr/Def/Controller to bring the +hit that makes their snipes perma-fast? I'm arguing that this change will make Tactics mandatory on Defenders and Corruptors - bringing the party aspect of +hit bonuses into it does nothing to allay that fear. -
Quote:Equating the snipe change to the fitness pool is laughable. So many people were gasping for end just getting to 20 that stamina really did feel like a huge change in performance in just what you could do regardless of AT and most power sets. The snipe change amounts to a stronger attack. It has far less reaching effects than the fitness pool ever did. If you think that the snipe change is as dramatic as the fitness pool than I'd say your idea of what's "required" and "game changing" is seriously... odd.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Power slots? 3 - the snipe, Assault or Maneuvers, and Tactics.
Well, what I *gave up* will vary from player to player and build to build.
What I *got*, for my three power choices, is a substantial to hit bonus for my entire party (and Confuse protection, FWIW), a substantial damage or noticeable defense boost for my entire party, and the deadliest attack in my chain.
Look at it this way - what one primary/secondary and two pool powers could you pick up that are *better* than what is offered by the preceding paragraph?
Here, let me throw those paragraphs into the Issue 18 Wayback Machine and see what comes out:
"Those are questions whose answers will differ from player to player. Performance may degrade in some areas so that you can take Health and Stamina. It's give and take and one must really take a hard look at what's being given up to achieve that extra +recovery and +regen. Sure some combos and AT's will have an easier time getting to it. Others may have to work harder but may see bigger returns because of the nature of their AT or powerset.
(removing bit about this being a change)
...It may be just as "viable" to continue to skip the Fitness Pool and THAT I believe is INTENDED. I do not believe the devs want to force us into taking Fitness Powers just because they are the end all be all. But they do want them to be tempting."
Save for the bits about it being a change, and perma-ing, the argument you presented also invalidates Inherent Fitness. If you thought Inherent Fitness was a mistake, you're entitled to your opinion, but the Devs disagreed with you. If you don't think perma-snipes will be mandatory in every solid build the way Fitness was...there's our disagreement. -
Quote:The corruptor or the defender or blaster with 21.5% hit has at least one of the following options open to them to have that "sometimes" fast snipe: Aim, Build Up, Power Build Up (I consider targeting drone an "perma-fast snipe" ability). Sometimes they have two of those. ALL of them can jump over the 22% hurdle with team buffs or even just using inspirations.Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Here's where I differ with you, for reasons mentioned in the post that began this thread. The blaster with 44% defense, the controller with a 97s recharge on Indomitable Will, the Illusionist with Phantom Army on 70s cooldown, and the character with 130s-recharge hasten are all doing pretty good. They have a gap in their awesome ability, but having it up a lot is still very useful even without permanence.
The Corruptor or Defender (or Blaster) with 21.5% +hit gets...a hit bonus. That's it. They will not gradually see something get better as they play and maybe choose to focus on it more, they will either see their snipe turn into their best attack - or not.
This change amounts to a very noticeable DPS bonus for forum readers, and a concomitant penalty to people who just play the game without reading up on it.