Kossy

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I have yet to understand why anyone says that Stone/ is gimped, in any fashion.

First of all, it's one of the few sets that provides a Defense to Psi. Granted, it's not a resist, which would have been nice given that the bulk of the set is resists, but it's more than any other Tank gets against that particular damage type. This means that once the Carnival of Shadows shows up, your teammates need no longer fear their damage-soaker dropping.

Second, I highly suspect that a large part of why you felt gimped prior to Granite Armor is that you intentionally skipped most of the resistance toggles in the set. There isn't a single power in the Primary that's not worth taking, even Stone Skin. With creative juggling of your toggles, you should easily be able to handle any situation into which you find yourself thrust. For my part, I was capable of soloing in Invincible pretty much as soon as I had SOs, and I did have to deal with a few AVs single-handedly along the way, though I'd hardly count Maestro as that much of a challenge.

Third, Fire Sword generally isn't a useful pick. YMMV as always, but I found that the recharge time versus the damage meant I was better off slotting Scorch with an extra recharge and throwing it twice in the same timeframe.

Fourth, I think the slows in Mud Pots are a waste. Sure, it's a great power, but its radius doesn't extend far enough around you to make the slow effects that useful. I stick an endred in mine, as well as a taunt duration and an accuracy to make sure the damage actually hits.

Fifth, if you're relying on Granite for your primary mitigation, then either you would have wanted Hasten somewhere in your build to offset the reduction in recharge rate that it causes, or you'd probably want some recharges in your attacks. You don't have Taunt, and you don't have a Taunt duration in Mud Pots, so you're going to be relying on Gauntlet to hold aggro, but they're going to come up too slowly for you to reliably overcome the power of the insane elec/elec blaster that's running up beside you and zapping your herd. Worse, you're not going to be able to protect the Kin/ defender that's keeping you Speed Boosted so you can move.

Finally, I really don't think the Fighting pool is going to do you much. Yes, it's a few extra points of both resistance and defense, but it's an extra pair of end-heavy toggles that, if you have Granite, you'll never need. If you're fighting a mob in which Granite Armor, Rooted and the occasional inspiration isn't enough to overcome, then you and your team have bitten off more than you can chew.

I know that, for my part, I only use Granite as the Uh-Oh button, and at 50 I can routinely solo on Invincible and clean up three- and four-person maps, given enough time. I usually team with a Kin/Sonic defender and then a few open SK slots, and my regular teammates have learned that if I've dropped into Granite, things have not gone according to plan.

I will admit, I'm not a PvPer, but the few times I took my Stone/Fire tank into a PvP zone, it took at least three opponents to actually scratch my health bar in any serious fashion, and four to actually keep the damage coming in fast enough to really be an issue. Outside of that, I was keeping all of my targets taunted sufficiently that my teammates could make short work of the rest of the opposition. Solo, it's usually a stalemate proposition, and most Stalkers realize that pretty quickly. "Oh noes, you have ASed me; I pop Earth's Embrace now". Six toggles running means at worst, I lose mez protection for a few seconds. This is by no means an optimized PvP build, but then, I never optimize for PvP.

For comparison, here's the build that I use:
Level: 50
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Stone Armor
Secondary: Fiery Melee
---------------------------------------------
01) --> Stone Skin==> DmgRes(1) DmgRes(3) DmgRes(3)
01) --> Scorch==> Acc(1) Rechg(23) Rechg(39) Dmg(45)
02) --> Rock Armor==> EndRdx(2) EndRdx(7) DefBuf(7) DefBuf(11) DefBuf(13)
04) --> Earth's Embrace==> Heal(4) Heal(5) Heal(5) Rechg(11) Rechg(13) Rechg(17)
06) --> Mud Pots==> Acc(6) EndRdx(15) Taunt(15) Dmg(36) Dmg(37) Dmg(37)
08) --> Rooted==> EndRdx(8) EndRdx(9) EndRdx(9) Heal(17) Heal(19) Heal(19)
10) --> Taunt==> Taunt(10)
12) --> Teleport Foe==> Acc(12)
14) --> Teleport==> Range(14)
16) --> Swift==> Run(16) Run(42) Run(46)
18) --> Health==> Heal(18) Heal(42) Heal(42)
20) --> Stamina==> EndMod(20) EndMod(21) EndMod(21)
22) --> Combustion==> Acc(22) Rechg(23) Rechg(40) Dmg(46)
24) --> Brimstone Armor==> EndRdx(24) EndRdx(25) DmgRes(25) DmgRes(31) DmgRes(34)
26) --> Crystal Armor==> EndRdx(26) EndRdx(27) DefBuf(27) DefBuf(31) DefBuf(36)
28) --> Minerals==> EndRdx(28) EndRdx(29) DefBuf(29) DefBuf(31) DefBuf(36)
30) --> Fire Sword Circle==> Acc(30) Rechg(37) Rechg(40) Dmg(45)
32) --> Granite Armor==> DmgRes(32) DmgRes(33) DmgRes(33) DefBuf(33) DefBuf(34) DefBuf(34)
35) --> Incinerate==> Acc(35) EndRdx(39) Rechg(40) Dmg(45)
38) --> Greater Fire Sword==> Acc(38) Rechg(39) Rechg(43) Dmg(46)
41) --> Build Up==> Rechg(41) Rechg(43) Rechg(43)
44) --> Char==> Acc(44)
47) --> Fire Blast==> Acc(47) EndRdx(48) Rechg(48) Dmg(48)
49) --> Fire Ball==> Acc(49) EndRdx(50) Rechg(50) Dmg(50)

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That's a great guide...I love it...Absolutely love it.
I'm sorry but your guide is kinda off..
My stone/fire tank is at 11 and only has scorch, and besides all the primaries available it only has hurdle from the fitness pool

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Well lets see your guide then see if this guide is kinda off.

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Irrelevant. A poor guide is.. *gasp* a poor guide whether another one exists or not.

In fact, it's often better if there's no guide at all.

However, this post isn't a bad guide at all. Hurdle on a stoner? I'm sure it synergizes well with rooted.

Just a thought. Might it be better to wait as you accumulate a large set of tactics before you write these up, THEN post them a few at a time. Better, classify them as Defensive, Offensive, or Other, and categorize them that way.

Personally, I think this is severely overdoing it. This is a rare, but perfect example of Overformatting a guide and putting in too much fo the obvious. IMO, little things like combining Aid Self with PFF should be mentioned either as part of a power 'scrip, or as a bullet point in a strategies overview. (because if you can't put 2+2 on how PFF and Aid Self work together you probably shouldn't be playing).

Further on that thought, some of these are "That's kind of a neat trick" sort of tips, but a substantial number are "Well, Duh" In terms of how obvious they should be, even to a fairly new gamer. Things like using single target mezzes on different targets to keep them from attacking you are conclusions that should come naturally after a few hours of gameplay. If they don't get that themselves, I doubt a guide would help them.

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This is the first guide I've ever seen that liked Whirlwind. Care to explain?

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It used to be that whirlwind did two useful things for non-melee types.

The first was the fact that it did what it does now, which was knockback. Granted it was one of those thing you'd have to use judiciously; running WW constantly and plowing into a mob is completely unsynergistic for Kinetics.

The other thing that made it useful was that it would unroot toons. Kin and sonic don't have huge activation times, but being able to duck in and out of effect range was something I thought could be very useful. With its low mag ('cause if you're teaming with a kin, why aren't you fighting at +2 or higher at higher levels?), and the fact that kins can reach speed cap, you can outpace, and at worst, knock down most foes.

I never really liked WW. However, my guide was meant to be more open-ended, as 1) Sonic blast was a relatively new set at the time, and 2) I mostly wanted to get the information out about the set as best I could. If you'll notice, some of the information about sonic was wrong, as I was working off of incorrect data.

You're right. The suggestion about WW should have been more fleshed out. I heartily don't recommend it now, as WW doesn't unroot anymore, and might even come with movement penalties not previously present in the power 'scrip.

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Yes, but the RT unique isn't passive, which means you'd need to use heal other every 2 minutes for the bonus. Better off slotting it into health. 25% isn't gamebreaking, but it certianly helps.
Edit: Kossy tries not to exaggerate.

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Doesn't that work the same for the Numina Unique? Wouldn't you have to fire Heal Other for the Numina bonus then?

Because if you don't, then you are clearly correct, the slotting is wrong. My assumption was the unique in Health was always active. As fast as you're going to be able to fire off powers with the global bonus, the 5% regen trade off for the 10% recovery was an acceptable trade (for me at least).

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Right, but what I was implying was that you sould move one slot from another power (such as the Imp. skin Mez resist) and put it in health instead. That way, RT isn't stuck in heal Other, and instead works all the time in Health.

I never said anything about putting either of the Heal uniques in other powers.

Yes, but the RT unique isn't passive, which means you'd need to use heal other every 2 minutes for the bonus. Better off slotting it into health. 25% isn't gamebreaking, but it certianly helps.

Edit: Kossy tries not to exaggerate.

I'd strongly suggest Acrobatics over Power Push. Mobility is king for blasters, and knockdown/back will kill you against iffy mobs (and not so iffy mobs). Acro also provides protection from one hold, which is nice against mobs you know have small to moderate mez capacity. I'd use the two -KB slots in the shields to enhance something that will benefit strongly from slots.

Also, enhancing your shield for resists is very important, an extra 10-12% damage resist helps a lot.

Also, move the RT to Health and take the slot out of your shield; Impervious skin doesn't grant 30% mez resists anymore, only 7.5% (as it was originally supposed to be a unique)

You could probably have done better jsut by writing the guide.

Also, bear in mind that this was written pre-I5. Blaster dynamics have changed since then, iirc.

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if you run like hell every time a noob comes along will they ever get any better? no /e Gasp! if u think u could help the occansinal player and get off you're lazy [censored] insted of expecting to get invted to the perfect 8 player, perfect mix of ATs teams and quiting when u dont.. gets afully anoying when im teamin tryin to help the occansial noob make a team when all of you suddenly quit leaving us/them/him/her screwed, just cause us/them/him/her are a lil slow on the type or are lagging too much to instanteniously anser, doesnt help decrese there population if you're all running like hell cause hes/shes a lil ignorent

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Do u english much lol?

I feel bad for anyone who has to endure your undeniable charm in-game.

I'm with most people in this thread. It's fairly easy to discern the mediocre to good from the really bad just based on how courteous, prepared, and generally able the leader ends up being.

It should not fall upon people who understand the conventions and nuances of things like decency, respect and consideration to have to not only suffer, but teach those who could care less, especially not in a leisurely gaming environment. Some people will want to, but you can hardly point a finger at those who don't. Avoiding accountability for oneself is far too widespread.

This is not to say we shouldn't give people the benefit of the doubt, but most of the time, the above is true.

Ah, sir?

What's step 3?

When you juxtapose this:

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i think you just gave me a brain tumor, serps.

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Yes. Reading what Serps writes can do that to a brain.

Nice try at making an awesome guide Serps, but it comes up short in the awesome department.

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With this:

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It doesnt matter if it's awesome or it isn't. Serp's started the guide in a sober moment and then got progressly sloshed as the guide unfolded. Serp's is Serp's. I personally find ANYTHING he writes highly amusing and enjoy the chuckles.OOOO and I get more chuckles and grins from all the comments from people giving constructive criticism or critiquing the writing style...... Giggle and grin and have fun with Serps!! He//She is a sarcasm guru.

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I'm tempted to say this to the former:

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QED

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I'm glad we agree. I got a different idea from the tone of your post. A lot of the rhetoric sounds very gung-ho and may have thrown me off. Ergo, my opening statement.

When you emphasize fury building, you seem to encourage allowing non-controlled attack because one has auto powers, relying on resists/defense. The mistake to take driect defensive powers over nondirect defense is equally egregious as taking too many attacks and not enough defense; it's the error of taking powers that are less beneficial in the short and long run.

I'm glad we agree. I wanted to make sure that the post wasn't interpreted as "Take auto powers or else you'll be an ineffective brute. Brute is fury. Fury is survival. Direct mitigation is the One and only way"

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Not that I dispute the accuracy of your data but why I haven't I heard about this before? Why isn't there more people questioning this? Does everyone know this already? I'm just curious why my roommate who has a level 50 character is telling me you are full of it when I told him about this guide.(granted I know he doesn't have any actually data and isn't one to min/max but he's been playing since beta, I would assume he would know.)

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It's because of Enhancement diversification. Values kind of cap out at about 96%ish for the third enhancement regardless of individual numbers. Lv 50 IOs actually only provide a 99.1% bonus if they're schedule A. This is why at about Lv 25-30, IOs kind of even out in effectiveness.

Most people neither do research nor numbercruch and just assume that they're right. Personally, I hate people who walk around acting like they know everything just because they've been in the game since beta. Duration of existence in a system is not an absolute indicator of how qualified someone is to evaluate it. There are people who have lived for 80 years that don't have a clue about how the human body works even on the basic level. People who have lived for 90 years that have a general idea of how projectiles should fly through the air, but can't quantify it. Unless you actually study the world you live in, you don't actually know anything about it.

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These guides will generally tell you that a power is "sux0rz" or "useless" because you get more defense or resistance from another power. That's right... I'm talking about the secret ANTI-AUTO LEAGUE or AAL. It took reading several guides telling me that various auto powers were useless because a toggle power provided more of the same to write this.

This simply doesn't hold water in the field people. It assumes that A) your toggles will NEVER be shut off, and B) that the powers don't stack, and C) you'll never have to make up for debuffs.

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Before you go all rebel disestablishment, you have to consider why some people rate auto resist powers lower.

First off, I agree that not all autopowers are awful. Case in point:

Stone Armor--> Stone Skin vs. Invuln--> Resist Physical damage

I love stone skin. Numbers aside (7.5% vs 5.25% resists to S/L), the reason why I would take stone skin in my stone armor set and not RPD in my invul set is

a)because it stone skin complements S/L defense with S/L resists, providing me a more synergistic defense versus two common damage types.

b)Invul has a two toggle that has the exact same effect, but stronger, both of which are necessary and provide an adequate level of S/L resists.

Other things to consider when picking or not picking auto powers is also whether or not your toon will actually benefit substantially from having to slot these powers, or if another secondary, primary, or even pool power will either a) outperform the autopower, or b) add survivability in different ways.

Case in point are Temperature protection in /Fire and energy protection in /Energy. There are several reasons NOT to take this passive, and in the case of /fire take tough. Fire's S/L resists do need a little bit of help from an additional power not contained within the set. It's fire resists are already through the roof, and fire and ice are uncommon damage types. Why take a power like Temperature protection when a) 1/2 of the power is redundant with both toggles, b)cold damage isn't all too common, except in a small range when dealing with CoT in the 20s, and the extra S/L resists shore up the only major hole in Fire at low levels?

The same goes for Energy protection in /EA: it's a passive that pushes resists into something that you already have a resist/defense combination for, while negative energy is already mostly accounted for with another toggle.

Finally, most autos come early, at key points where a brute has to choose between getting Acro (/Fire,/Dark), or continue the road up to stamina, all while laying the groundwork (mez protection, Main S/L resists, minor secondary resists) to being able to survive, and have at reasonable repertoire of attacks upon which to build fury.

The reason why there is such a de-emphasis on autos (with the exception of some of Invuln, in which they do increase survivability until you get invincibility) is because there are almost always better powers to take. By the time you can take them, you've either already reached SO levels, or your defenses are shored up enough in one form or another to be rather well off. /Fire and /EA are prime examples.

For you to assume that toggles drop often implies that the problem isn't one of survival, but one of end management, which, until you get your end recovery power or reach SOs with fully slotted stamina, is always something to work around until then.

The "Field experience" line of reasoning is a red herring. Not everything is functional out of the box, and some mobs will completely mow you down based on your powerset. The word of the day in the field is "adaptability." If, on a team, you find the same strategies result in you constantly dying, alternate means may be necessary. If solo, inspirations are there to give you that extra push against that nasty Longbow boss. Careful and rational analysis are the solution to most situations, and will do vastly more than 10 points to a redundant resistance or defense.

Basically, while it's not good to spurn any power because it's auto and has low base values, it's equally foolish to assume that all autos are functional and worthwhile. There are reasons why autos are rated lower than their toggle counterparts. It's true that you can stack auto and toggle powers, but toggles make up the meat of your defense. Autos are ancillary, and unless they do provide something vital (i.e. Grounded), always keep the option of other powers open. Fury isn't as absolutely vital as the OP makes it out to be, and survivability is not just defense, resists, and damage output; it comes int he form of self-heals, knockback/up/down, stuns, and holds as well. While it's not building mad fury (how much fury can a lone foe build anyway?) knocking a mob off its feet or keeping it mezzed is 100% damage mitigation for the duration. I'd take air superiority over RPD anyday.

Bear in mind that a total 95% in Io bonuses on runspeed is extraordinary (not to mention impractical for what you can do with other IOs) so I'm very willing to believe that you can attain standard runspeed under granite and rooted (standard, not +swift or anything) if you devote your entire build to maximizing runspeed.

Most people only hit about 30-50% tops, which falls far below the requirement to top the penalties of both powers combined.

Until someone quantifies the data (Which after today's work is the last thing I feel like doing). We can't really be sure how the runspeed bonuses work.

If you want, you can compare the speeds of a swifted total +90% runspeed bonus toon in granite and rooted with that of a rooted, swiftless, bonusless toon and compare. If it IS additive based on base runspeed, then the speed values should be the same. If it's not, then it's won't be.

as a side note: it's my opinion that balancing runspeed and recharge bonuses is vastly better, but to each their own.

I have. The runspeed modifications are additive (or subtractive, as is with rooted and Granite) to base value

Generating a 100% total runspeed bonus will effectively negate (and then some for the case of Granite) the penalties on rooted and Granite.

I've tested this myself.

I have Swift 3-slotted (2 lv 50 Ios. 1 lv 25 IO), 4 GotA runspeeds (30% bonus), and two 2x aegis (10% bonus), on my stone tanker and she runs like she's got no penalty when in rooted, and runs like she has swift in granite. With both, she shows marked slowing, but runs above the minimum value on run debuff (i.e. she actually moves at a reasonable pace compared to rooted+granite).

I lack numbers 'cause I'm at work. I'll do a quantitative analysis when I get home.

Questions are better posted int he Player Questions forum.

That said:

Paragon Wiki
or

City of Data

I know the dropships are probably the most interesting challenge in a while (excepting hami), but I'm still curious as to what the incentive is to taking down one of these monsters. Massive XP, Massive 'stige/inf? Massive merits? Badges? Or is it just really cool to be able to say "'cuz we could"

How about two slotting?

The only conceivalbe reason for picking up lv 50 IOs is for one fo two reasons:

The base values of whatever you're enhancing are giant, and a 1-2% boost from 3 slotting actually make a substantial difference (i.e. Recharge in Tier 9s, hasten, etc.)
-or-
If you're going to 2 slot them.

This leads me to the question, which level IOs have the most gain/cost from 2-slotting? Is it a direct curve, or does it plateau off significantly after a certian level?

<QR>

There should be no need to kill any of LR's spawns while you're fighting to kill him, especially with one emp, one rad, and one kin.

And I agree. This isn't a guide so much as it's a recounting of your STF.

Absolutely nothing. What's psoted in guides, stays in guides

Look with your eyes and not with your mouth

Guide to Guides

It's under blasters.

For someone who posted in the wrong forum, and is new to this game, you're being much too cheeky for your own good.

He wasn't commanding you to do it. He was asking. It helps not to act like you have a chip on your shoulder, here or in real life. No one owes you anything.

Also, I agree with comments on Elec/Fire. Good Aoe, good defensive balance, and all the elec melee knockdown synergizes with burn.

I'd also suggest Dark Miasma defenders/corruptors, Fire/EM blasters, and most scrapper builds as well.

Wait, if he's an OBGYN, the wouldn't it be Dr. EXTREME TAUPE PANTHER OBGYN?

He should be a lawyer too.

Dr. EXTREME TAUPE PANTHER OBGYN Esq.

EXTREME TAUPE PANTHER

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A couple of points regarding the Dark part.

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16 > Shadow Fall
Team stealth. That's all I need to say. I don't like it, as it doesn't fit in with my play style. Some do like it, but I don't. I recommend skipping it.


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I would recommend not to skip this because
a) Mish Door Ambushes - With this running you dont get ambushed and get set up in peace.
b) It is also Team + Def , not much but every bit can help
c) It is also a decent Team Neg Eng,Eng and PSI Res, and since PSI attacks become common in the late game,while PSI def and Res is the rarest ,teams will love this.
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20 > Fearsome Stare
A cone fear attack. I have never like Fear attacks; I find them useless and annoying. All they do is cower and run away. Especially where I don't want them to go. I like herding, and this is very anti-herd. If you like Fear, stack Fear duration into it; otherwise, skip this power.



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1) Fear does not cause mobs to run.They only cower in place.The running is caused by different powers and would happen even if this had not been applied.
2) This power also has a large tohit debuff.
Basically this one power can neuter the alpha of an 8 man spawn so much that a petless MM will survive it

regards

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QFT.

Fearsome Stare is a signature power for Dark Miasma corruptors and MM. It's an awesome survival tool for you, your teammates, and your pets. It's got a sizeable acc debuff as well, and shines in both PvE and PvP. Combined with DN and tar patch, this power is abusive, locking down foes and enabling them only able to attack in response while allowing the other pwoers to destroy their accuracy, damage, and resistance. Further, the power acts adds a sort of -recharge as well, as frightened mobs have to enter and "exit" the fear animations between return attacks.

If Arsonists drop burn patches, that might be generating the flight response you're getting. Also, Howling twilight can generate the fear response in some foes unaffected by its stun.