Juggertha

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Show of hands: who thinks Jugg and NYC Pulp should make angry manlove right now?

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thats totally my next gift art project except replace Juggs with Foo and NYC Pulp with Backdoor Baller ((Backalley brawlers praetorian from alternate universe 6669 where the world is the same except the goverment is run by the adult film industry ))

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I'm Gay....... me.

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dude, i never said you were harassing me in private.

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No, I get that. what I'm saying is that you arrived here with a chip on your shoulder. It was evident in your initial post, and it's been clear in a number that followed.

If you're mad about artists shafting you - deal with them.

If you're mad about someone emailing you - deal with them.

I'm not really interested in them, and am tired of you calling on those examples for why you posted what you did.

Deal with the people in this forum for who they are and what they've done... I think that'll help you communicate better with everyone (you do realize that it's 10 - 1 here right? And while that does not automatically indicate who is right and who is wrong, it'd should be a hint in your direction that you might want to revisit your approach).

While I'm hesitant to keep replying here, I've got some time to kill while the pizza is in the oven and I'm gearing up to watch Generation Kill.

NYCPulpWriter, you have been consistent in one thing... laying blame on others. You talk about how artists have wronged you, how people have emailed you nasty things, how people here are taking you wrong...

but I've gotta' break it to you man, I'm feeling like I really don't care about all that stuff that much. I mean, I don't wish you any ill will or anything, but all of those stories are just seeming like excuses right now.

"I was rude because someone was rude to me"

"I was short because people are not understanding me"


NYCPulpWriter, have I ever emailed you? Ever Pm'd you?

No.

I never shafted you on a piece either.

Has anyone on this forum shafted you?

If not, why do you keep rubbing our noses in it?

Honestly man, don't deal with me carrying all of your baggage from some other place. Deal with me for what I've said and done.

Listen man, it's not that you need to lie about how good or bad the previous artists were, it's the fact that they were not relevant to your initial request.

You could have said "I've been trying to get a web comi I've written started up, and am wondering if anyone out there is willing to help me. Here's sample of what I'm doing, and I'd appreciate any interest or feedback you can give."

But instead you decided to bash the guys who you had worked with... that's always a bad sign - in any profession.

You say I've been snarky with you from the get-go, but look at what I originally wrote:

"OP, I'm not the greatest artist around, so maybe this won't be a loss to you, but going from you post... I wouldn't work with ya.

Sorry man, but for a NON PAYING JOB that you want done, you post left exactly the wrong taste in my mouth.

Better luck next time. "

It's fairly straight forward, and in fact, I'm wishing you luck in your next attempt.

It's when you decided that YOU WERE RIGHT and any dissenting voice was wrong, that this forum turned snarky. Look at all the replies to your post.. most of them.. in fact all of them, were trying to help you out - but you didn't want anything about it.

You PM'd me... why? So that YOU could be heard. You didn't want to hear from me, YOU just wanted to make sure that YOUR side was known.

And somehow I'm supposed to respect that.

When YOUR SIDE was getting lambasted on the forum, what did you do? You deleted your posts and asked how to delete the thread.

No one is calling you names.

No one is calling out your family or friends.

What people are doing is this, and pay attention because they've been saying from the start, they're telling you that you're approaching this thing from the wrong perspective.

I'm glad you like my art, and I thank you for the compliment, but I wouldn't work with you. NOT because of your ability (honestly, never read your stuff - sorry), but because of how you've handled yourself through this whole thing.

I said it in my first reply here, and I'll say it again - good luck in your next attempt. I hope you learn something from some of the advice people have given you here.

I'm a fan of score cards... let's look at the chronology here..


-OP comes and requests a comic done for free... and then insults the previous artists working on it.
-People say they understand his passion, but that his wording was wrong.
-OP defends his position.
-I say that 200 hours of work should equal pay.
-OP says that doing work for free is a comon part of comics.
-OP PMs me and rants... and then asks me not to reply.
-OP posts on here askin people not to PM him.

Ok, that about does it so far.

What's next?

"The next person to send me a flame via my private email will be reported for harassment to the proper authorities. "

Just to be clear on somethin for everyone... I've never Pm'd this guy. He PM'd ME... ranted, and then asked me NOT to PM him.

If anyone else is PMing him, please stop. It's always better to deal with an issue like this in public so others can learn from it.

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wait until its done , if he shows it page by page he is locked in :P he may after completeing it decide to go back and tweak things :P

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Yup, I've already thought about re-wording a nuber of parts. The panels would stay the same, but I'm considering changing my 'voice' into something more narative.

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Juggs, maybe if you have time you can tell me what you think? It's no where near your caliber but I value your input.

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for shizzle.



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What I find interesting about this whole thread/issue is...

this guy is a writer!

We're the ones misunderstanding him... we're the ones not getting it. yet the Op proports himself to be a writer. a writer so good that you'd want to work for him for free.

This writer wrote me a rather long and fairly well worded Pm telling me about his 'situation' (basically an extended version of what was in the OP).. and after all of that, instead of saying something like he hopes we can communicate better... he tells me NOt to reply.

He writes to get something off of his chest... that's HE'S right.. yet I should not reply.

That's kind of how I feel abou this thread.

The Op came here thinking he was right, and when the tide started to turn, he deleted his posts and requested it to be closed.

I guess the Op doesn't like to face a dissenting view.

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well thats the thing. i did pay for the web comic pages even though most other writers/artist do not pay for them. generally speaking, web comics arent paid for. only the printed stuff.

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So you did pay, but now you feel it's not worth paying? Are you just mad about some deals gone bad (possibly), or do you feel that the artists on this forum don't deserve to be paid (possibly)?

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I'm working on my own comic right now. I'm writing it. I'm drawing it. And I'm coloring it.

I'm on page 2.



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I wana sees your comic Its not on DA!

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hehehe.. i'm debating putting it up page by page, or waiting until it's all done.

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I'm working on my own comic right now. I'm writing it. I'm drawing it. And I'm coloring it.

I'm on page 2.

Each page, from concept to finish, takes me about 8 hours.

I plan to have between 20-25 pages.

That's about 200 hours.

200 hours for MY dream, MY vision... I hope I can do it.




200 hours for someone else's dream... for no pay... I find that insulting actually.

Imagine walking up to someone on the street and asking them to work for you for 200 HOURS for no pay.

How many times would you be a) ignored, b) laighed off, or c) told to frack off?

200 hours at my 'normal rate' (my day job) would net me about $10,000. Would you ask a plumber to come to your house and work 200 hours for free? Would you ask a lawyer to take your case and work 200 hours for free? Why would you ask an artist to do the same? Do you value their skills less?

Most here on the forums know I am both an artist AND a collector. I love art... but I respect the people who make it too much for me to insult them like this.

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Then you havent been to comicspace or comicjobz when it was common place requesting unpaid writing or drawing help for web comics that are presented online. believe it or not, some people have actually wrote and draw stuff for free. I have written stuff for free for many artists before because I loved their work and the ideas they had.

as for comparing something like web comic help to a lawyer's job or a plumber is a very glib comparison.

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Wow, you actually want to get into this??

Ok, I'm game.

Any skill/profession takes a certain amount of talent and training to develop. To be a doctor, takes a unique skill set that includes 8+years of university. To be a landscaper often takes years of experience and apprenticeship. To be an artist, you usually need talent, training, and experience.

All of the above are paying jobs.

Sure, some people volunteer their time. Doctors without Borders and Habitat for Humaity both come to mind - both being worthy causes.

But rarely do those professionals volunteer their time for someone they don't know (and to put it bluntly, does not have a hardship story).

You talk about Comicspace of Comicjobz being a place for work... notice how you said "was"? Nowadays, gutterzombie is more popular. Take a look at their jobs section... notice how most of the jobs are paying? There's a reason for that.

Tell you what, if you think my skills and services are so unworthy of pay... that's how I'm going to think of you.

I'd like you to spend the next few months, working for 200 hours ona novel for me.

I don't plan to pay you.. but it's my dream ... so get ta work!

I'm working on my own comic right now. I'm writing it. I'm drawing it. And I'm coloring it.

I'm on page 2.

Each page, from concept to finish, takes me about 8 hours.

I plan to have between 20-25 pages.

That's about 200 hours.

200 hours for MY dream, MY vision... I hope I can do it.




200 hours for someone else's dream... for no pay... I find that insulting actually.

Imagine walking up to someone on the street and asking them to work for you for 200 HOURS for no pay.

How many times would you be a) ignored, b) laighed off, or c) told to frack off?

200 hours at my 'normal rate' (my day job) would net me about $10,000. Would you ask a plumber to come to your house and work 200 hours for free? Would you ask a lawyer to take your case and work 200 hours for free? Why would you ask an artist to do the same? Do you value their skills less?

Most here on the forums know I am both an artist AND a collector. I love art... but I respect the people who make it too much for me to insult them like this.

OP, I'm not the greatest artist around, so maybe this won't be a loss to you, but going from you post... I wouldn't work with ya.

Sorry man, but for a NON PAYING JOB that you want done, you post left exactly the wrong taste in my mouth.

Better luck next time.

This is awesome, man.

Although not directly CoH related, I think we can all appreciate the fear of finding this sight in a back alley.

/yikes!

And now you can see some of the changes I did with the lines.

I got some good advice here on this piece (now THAT'S the type of art advice I like!).

interesting idea

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Thanks guys! I wanted to throw the Sylar wip up here also =D

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Nice job on his face man.

I don't always post my 'Works in Progress' here, but I wanted to show everyone the stages I usually go through for a finished piece.

This is a piece for a Baron Midnight cover and you can see how I've laid out the rough sketch.

It's at this stage that I usually do any major changes. [u]Any and all feedback at this point is welcome[u], but keep in mind, I'll be listening to the client and their wishes.

-Juggy

Those look great !

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It's cool; I was just curious after all the vituperative ranting about your absence. (Curiosity is my main personality trait, after all.)

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Im quietly compiling a list of folks that were forming a lynch mob in the prior thread to folks that are being sunshine and roses in this thread , purely for my own amusement of course as id never post it but it is fun to refer to .

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I'm really not sure how I feel about this comment.

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OooooOOOoooOOOOOh!

Thanks for finally pointing it out, I never would have seen that on my own. That sort of stuff is very tricky with my vision. Cool little thing to put in there!

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See, this is why I didn't tell anyone what it was, so much cooler when you realize its there

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That's what i was hoping.

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I sleep slumped at at my drawing table so I can get right back to work as soon as I wake up. Kiesha only has to deal with my funk when sliding food into my studio as to prevent me starving to death

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Now THAT is the artistic spirit that was missed!! lol

WB man, good to see you back up and churning out the hits again.

I've been a member of this forum for quite some time now. I generally post in the Virtue sub-forums, and the Screenshots/Fan Art sub-forum.

I post in Virtue to keep in touch with people I'm playing with (in that server), and I post here to share my art (both done by me and collected).

I've noticed though that some other people seem to have different reasons for posting here.

I'm curious about yours.

It's a movie poster

Where did they quote that?