Johnny_Butane

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With side-switching actually on the way, how do you think this will impact tanks?

Personally, I think there are room for tanks and brutes in 1-50 content, but I'm not sure what the general public will think.

Somebody had to start this thread.

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First off, I want to say to everyone "I told you so."

Every time I brought up blue side Brutes as a motivation to address Tanker issues, there was a wail of people saying it would never happen, we'll cross that bridge IF we come to it, blah blah.

Well surprise. Johnny was right. Again. Cross the damn bridge.

Second:
We don't know if there's going to be cross faction ATs all the way from levels 1-50.
If Brutes still start in the Isles, and Tankers in Paragon, or both in Praetoria, and they dont cross over until the mid levels or something, that changes things a little. Not a lot though.

Considering Tankers are barely Tankers in the early levels. They're mostly low damage Scrappers with a little more HP. They don't have the tools to tank. Period. Brutes on the other hand, kick a lot of butt right out of the gate.

So in a situation with a common starting zone(s), I can see Brutes easily pulling ahead.

Third, the general public has already spoken. Whenever there's Scrapper vs Brute vs Tanker threads outside of this forum, Tankers are not viewed as favourably as they are here. Some of the people here need to take their blinders off to see that, but regardless.

Tankers are a niche AT. Brutes are far more wll rounded. Joe Blow will likely gravitate towards the Brute. Especially considering for the most part, blue side enemies are more forgiving. With four possible buffing ATs behind them, Brutes will do well enough at tanking for most people's needs.

Lastly, I view this as just the latest in the devs' abuse of Tankers. This is NOT a good thing to happen to Tankers. I've seen what's around the corner, I've seen what's over the horizon, and I promise you, you fools won't have nothing to celebrate. And no, I won't get there with you. I'm going to Champions.



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Not me. Unless power customization comes about


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They possibly hinted at tinting projectiles like fireball in the trailer.

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and it allows me to design how I want my MM minions to look

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Unlikely

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But I have absolutely no desire to explore any "gray area" between the two sides. Call me old fashioned, but I like my heroes good and my villains bad, and none of this anti-hero nonsense.

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It's not like there was a huge division in the game before.

Hero: "You viallins are filth. You fight the Family, Skulls and Crey. You go to a warehouse and beat up everyone there, just because someone told you to."

Villain: "So do you."

Hero: "Yeah well I don't steal. Except for when I stole CoT weapons for Dr. Trevor Seaborn. Anyway, we're SO not alike."

Villain: "Whatever. Hey, want to team up in the RWZ or Comerora later?"

Hero: "...OK."




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is this true that there are new tank epics? also what are they?

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In i13 most of the APPs got new level 44 powers added. Tankers got some in their APPs too, with the excpetion of Energy Mastery which got left out.

They are, IIRC:

-Shiver (Ranged (Cone) Foe: -Speed -Recharge) in Arctic Mastery.

-Quicksand (Ranged (Location AoE), Foe: -Speed, -Jump, -Fly, -Defense) in Earth Mastery

and

-Melt Armor (Ranged (Targeted Area of Effect), Foe: -Resistance, -Defense) in Pyre Mastery



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-The eradication of hard ATs/calsses in favour of a much more flexible system of templates.

-Full customization of everything visual. I want to pick my cast animations. I want to pick the color of my projectile. I want to pick my run cycle. Etc.

-Limited power customization. I should be able to trade the knockdown in a power for knockback. A -defense debuff effect for a -resistance. Or scrap the secondary effects for more damage. Not every power could be customized and not every trade off would be possible, but as much as there can be.

-Striking and cohesive art direction. Art direction in games wasn't fully mature when CoH was being developed. I feel the current game lacks art direction is looks very generic. One option is to hire a "name" and with it a look for the game, much like DCUO did with Jim Lee. A name isn't needed, but can help bring recognition and help hype the game. CoX's current copcept guys are quite competent, but currently they're hamstrung with making new stuff match and fit in with theold (lack of) style. I'm confident that they could come up with an interesting style and look to the visuals without resorting to gaudy novelties like cel shading.

-A vet system for CoX players. Characters and costumes would likely NOT be forwards compatable with a new game. As much as you want, you odds are you can't bring your level 50 Blaster into a new game. But a "leg up" system like vet rewards that, for example, let you boost a single character to the half way level mark, or grants you double XP or somthing, would be a nice gesture.

-I would like to see a "cleaned up" continuity with the existing games. Simplify some things, drop plot point hook ups that never went anywhere, unless you plan on addressing them within six months of launching the new game. We've got so many hanging threads, the MA is pretty much the dev's way of saying "We're likely not going to get back to what's up with Penny and the Clockwork King, so what do you players think?".

-A greater focus on "zones" (assuming there still are zones and not a seamless world) and less on instanced missions. A lot of work in CoX went to to crafting the zones. But for the most part, all they act as are spaces in between mission doors. There should be giant monsters roaming the world at all times. Super villains showing up on the streets should be a semi-regular thing. Actually going out into the world...to look for crimes to halt. Patrolling. Streetsweeping. These are all but dead sometimes in CoX. Events like the Rikti invasions bring people out of the wood work, but that's not enough. People had an amazing time in the 5th anniv events with the AVs and giant monsters all over the place. Getting people out of instanced missions, away from farming/grinding in small team cliques, and outside in the world interacting with other players and making connections should be encouraged.

-People want a moon zone. People want underwater zones. People want different environments that behave differently. Variety.

-Also, for city zones, take a look at how some real cities are buit. I expect to see gas stations. A mall or two (not just a strip mall with textured store fronts, an actual mall you can enter). Schools. Parks that are more then flat green areas with trees. Why is there not a single baseball diamond in Paragon City? In parks I expect to children playing on equipment...who flee when a super battle gets near. Suburbs.

-Environmental interaction. I want to punch guys though billboards. I want to throw cars. I want a big megascreen in Blydes Square that gets exploded three or four times a day and each time, assuming there's a player around to see, little AI workmen and robots come to fix it.

Leveling buildings or smashing through them? No. I don't expect that. Uprooted power poles? Wielding steel girders? Weak spots in some walls? Yes.

-Improved mission design and improved AI. When I'm dispatched to clear a warehouse of super thugs, I don't want to walk into the front door of an instanced mission. Put a mission enterance marker outside on the street and THAT takes me to the instance of that block.Then I want to crash in through the skylight, or kick in the front door. And when I'm inside, I want enemies coming to investigate what the noise is. I don't want to see groups of enemies standing in place, punching their fists, waiting for me to approach them one at a time.

-At the highest level, I want to be considered one of the best in the city. Not an overglorified sidekick. I don't want to be 1/8th of every signature character. There should be very few villains human sized that can stand up to you by the end game, let alone you and a team. Guys you fought in the mid levels now have to gang up on you Sinister Six style. If you show up with a team, the villain calls in their team. Or a giant robot. Or tries an experimental serum or device. Heck, maybe he shrinks your entire team and you have to fight him like that. In CoH terms, very few "AVs" in the end game. EBs for a solo player, and team of EBs, GMs or deus ex for a team of players.



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And the Holographic Decoys would be cool if they used a copy of the player's skeleton & costume, but with ultra desaturated colors so teammates wouldn't be confused.

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I don't think that's possible. The next best is generic looking holo decoys like in Illusion. Green, kind of looking like the default MA contact droid.


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This specifically has remarkably origin specific animations and names (rocket pods, nano machines, holograms, etc.).

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True, but the same can be said for Archery, Assault Rifle, Devices, etc.



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First, some back story:

In a Tanker thread I had an exchange with Arcanna where I was complaining that the Tanker AT doesn't allow players to create the concept of the classic super strong, invulnerable hero by virtue of the AT's relative lack of punch compared to other melee ATs.

Arcanna pointed out that there's lots of iconic concepts the ATs don't allow for, like Iron Man. A complaint that Tankers can't be Colossus or the Thing has no more merit than the fact that Blasters can't be Iron Man.

That got me thinking. I tried building a power suited hero, but none of the Blaster sets really fit what I think of when I imagine Iron Man, War Machine, etc.

So I thought, perhaps a power set could be created that allows Blasters to be closer to the concept of the armoured hero. Blasters are far from being my AT, but I thought "why not take a stab at it".

Granted, I expect some responses like: "You have no clue about Blasters" or "You can have a power like that on a Blaster..."

But, hey, take the proposal for what it is. I'm willing to discuss options and limitations with anyone who wants to do so in a civil manner.

So, here is an attempt at Blaster primary and secondary sets aimed at serving the Iron Man concept a little better. Mind the names. I can pizzazz them up later.


Techno Suit Offense:

Fire Rocket:
You fire a single rocket from a pop-out rocket pod on your back/shoulder.
(Moderate S/L Damage)

Fire Volley:
You fire a volley of multiple rockets from your pop-out rocket pod. There is a chance the multiple rockets can stun an enemy.
(High S/L DoT, Chance for Disorient)

Fire Salvo:
You fire a salvo of "drunk missiles". Their erratic path means they will hit multiple opponents clustered close together.
(Ranged Targeted AoE, Moderate S/L Damage)

Low Intensity Beam:
You fire a beam of low intensity energy configured for crowd control from your palm emitters. Deals minor energy damage with a good chance to knock your foes down.
(Ranged Cone, Minor Smashing/Energy Damage, Knockdown)

High Intensity Beam:
You fire a beam of high intensity energy from your chest cannon. Has a chance to knock down your foes.
(Ranged Cone, High Smashing/Energy Damage, Chance for Knockdown)

Divert Power:
You temporarily divert power from your offensive systems to your shields and repair systems.
(Self -Damage, -Recovery, +Def +Regeneration, 60s duration)

Focused Beam:
You charge up and release a tightly focused beam blast from your chest cannon with a chance to send your foe flying.
(Sniper, Extreme Smashing/Energy Damage, Chance for Knockback)

Nano Swarm:
You release a cloud of tiny machines that attack a foe and weaken them.
(Summon Nano Swarm, Minor Energy Damage, -Res)
*This would function like Devouring Earth Swarms where they run away/come back and the debuff is intermittent.

Death Blossom:
You overload your suit's systems in one massive attack, firing rockets and energy blasts in a dizzying pattern at everything around you.
(PBAoE, Extreme Smashing/Energy Damage, Self -Recovery)


And now for the secondary:


Techno Suit Manipulation:

Magnetic Pincer Beam:
Powerful waves of energy hold a single foe immobile.
(Foe Immobilize, Minor Energy DoT)

Armoured Punch:
You smash your foe with a mechanically assisted punch.
(Moderate S/L Damage, Chance for Disorient)

Sensor Array:
You activate your sensor array to assist in targeting and detecting enemies.
(Self +ToHit, +Perception, 10s Duration)
*The intent for the +Perception is to act like a yellow inspiration when the player is Blinded by something like a Smoke Grenade. Would it function like that?

Armoured Smash:
You smash your foe with a slower, but more powerful mechanically assisted punch.
(High S/L Damage, Chance for Knockdown)

Turbo Thrusters:
You overdrive your suit's movement systems for a bust of speed. Costs some endurance to activate.
(Self +Speed +Recharge, Self -End, 25s duration, non-enhanceable recharge on the power itself)

Magnetic Pulse:
You emit a pulse that forces enemies back and deals some damage.
(Repel, Moderate S/L Damage )

Razzle Dazzle:
You use a light based, non-lethal crowd control device to stun a crowd of foes. Even though not all of them will be stunned, the spots in their eyes will prevent them from landing their attacks.
(Ranged Cone, Chance for Disorient, Foe -ToHit)

Holographic Decoys:
Creates three holographic image decoys that can confuse your foes. The decoys do no damage.
(Summon Decoys, Chance for Confuse)
*Think Phantom Army, but with no damage. Generic looking green holograms.

Wrecker:
You devastate your foe with a slow, but extremely powerful mechanically assisted punch.
(Extreme S/L Damage, Chance for Knockdown)

***

That's it. I tried to work utility and survivability into sets for an AT that's really not supposed to be about that. I tried to incorporate concepts that come to mind when I think of armored heroes. I'm eager to hear if people think the sets are totally OP or gimp town.
Being just an exercise to kill time, I've got no stake in the Blaster AT or concept. So...whee!



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A Super Speeder and a Flight User racing across an urban environment with obstacles, hills, and buildings.

A Much more even race.


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Until you factor in easily obtainable, renewable flight powers like Raptor Packs, the GvE Jump Pack, Shard Packs, etc.

Suddenly the Super Speeder is clearing obstacles with no problem at all, leaving the Flyer in the dust. A Super Speeder can easily obtain all the benefits of Fly and keep his speed.

***

My suggestion for the issue of travel powers is simple. Normalize their speeds. Each travel is as fast as the next. Then balance them with other benefits and perks that are roughly just as attractive if you're a melee or ranged AT.

Fly keeps it's intrinsic control.
Super Speed could get a ranged defense bonus or something appropriate.
Give Teleport a 10s phase after every port.
Jumpers get...whatever.

The point is, travel powers shouldn't favour something as simple as if you're ranged or melee based. Currently Fly penalizes melee ATs with slowness when they're really not in a position to take advantage of many or any of its benefits.

Concept as simple as how your character moves about shouldn't be punished because you choose the "wrong" AT/travel combo.



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As was pointed out before if Flight was as fast as Super Jump or Super Speed why would anyone ever take Super Jump or Super Speed?


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Because they want a character who jumps or has super speed.

Just in the same way that someone who takes Fly on their melee AT does it because they wanted a flying super hero, despite being unfairly penalized with slowness without experienceing many or any of the advantages.

Making all the travels the same speed is just as unfair as the current situation, just for the opposite group. Penalizing someone for concept is penalizing someone for concept, regardless of which travel power/kind of AT is getting the short end.


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Castle and Positron pretty much summed up the endurance situation not long ago.

They know that people have endurance issues without Stamina. That includes before 20, and on buids that don't take it.

They know people are annoyed by endurance. How could they not. It's the most complained about mechanic in the game.

But they alllow the problem to exist, because in Castle's words, there's a number of buffs that eliminate the need for Stamina.

In other words, the endurance mechanic exists to "encourage" players to team, much in the way electric cattle prods "encourage" animals to move where you want them to.

So as far as the devs are concerned, Accelerate Metabolism, Speed Boost and Recovery Aura are how we're supposed to manage endurance. The alternative being, wait until 20 and lock yourself into three powers and use a pool choice.

I don't agree with this line of thinking, exactly the opposite. But it's why you likely wont see very much done about player endurance issues. The devs want players to have these issues and to team or pay with reduced build flexibility to have them taken care of.


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I think it's safe to assume that all tankers will have a secondary.

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But not exactly representing FACT when you decide to compare primaries on their own merits.

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You have to weigh the facts with logic. Aggro management isn't just what Tanker Primary powers are for. The taunt aura is but one small tool. So while that aura may be 90% "worse," it may only negatively impact your aggro handling abilities 5%.

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I was pointing out that a set's taunt aura and a set's ability to grab and hold aggro are not the same thing; something people who are debating WP's pros and cons often forget.


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Well, it depends.

Is it really 90 PERCENT less effective, or just 12 seconds?

I mean, if Invulns taunt aura lasted 40 seconds, then WPs would last 28 seconds.

Not 90% anymore, but still 12 seconds less.

Who's to say if it's supposed to be a percentile integer or a numerical one?

Edit: And because willpower's effectiveness is unchanged depending on the set you compare it against since not all taunt auras are created equal, it's obviously not simply "90%"

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1. Who tanks entirely on their aura? Holding aggro is a function of not only your aura, but the Taunt power itself, directly attacking and causing foes damage and the radial effect of gauntlet. Your aura is but one of four means of grabbing aggro, and it's not even the most potent way on any set.

2. Castle has stated that RttC's lower taunt is intentional, but I strongly suspect that's NOT because it's being used as a balance point. "No Martha, don't take the will power Tanker, he's got a lower taunt aura mag..."

Yeah. I don't see that conversation happening.

No, it's more likely a by-prouct of the set being shared by the other ATs and the devs wanting to keep the conversion minimal as well as how often the power ticks for regen.

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I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through.

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You would be surprised at how little it would take for me to stop hounding the devs. That is the point. It's a trifling matter that the devs will not budge on.

Not because they can't, but because they refuse to.


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Yes, the refuse to extremely overpower Invuln/SS Tankers and throw them out of balance with every other set combo in the game. That is a trifling matter indeed.

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What's the Wizard got for you, Strawman?


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I'd put bets on that! I would simply DIE if Johnny went from obsessive complaint fanatic to jolly forum-goer would such changes were to ever go through.

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You would be surprised at how little it would take for me to stop hounding the devs. That is the point. It's a trifling matter that the devs will not budge on.

Not because they can't, but because they refuse to.


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He seemed to want them to be even more meatshieldy than they are currently, while at the same time having less damage

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Statesman insisted on increased Tanker damage over the balance-related objections of several of his colleagues, as documented in a couple of interviews.

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I'd like to see those interviews.

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Willpower has better survivability than Invul, blooms much earlier, had better endurance performance, debuffs enemies, has a self rez, has no holes and doesn't obscure costumes.

All "at the cost of" having slightly less of a taunt duration in it's aura, which is merely 1/4th of a Tanker's aggro holding ability to begin with.

It's beyond 'flavour' to call that BS. It's very reasonable to expect Invul to do very very well against enemies with swords, much better than Willpower should and is currently doing.

I think you should get off what you're smoking if you think that a sword or swords would damage an invulnerable hero more than a hero with a lot of grit. Balance says it shouldn't. Common sense says it shouldn't.

People are every bit justified in calling shenanigans on this.

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I like Matt's belief system better.

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Matt's beleif system is such that he thinks it's OK that a super hero who's skin is supposed to be invulnerable to physical injury gets injured easier by guys with metal swords than a super hero who's merely really determined.

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For all his enthusiasm and talk of them being the heart and soul of the game, Jack's concept of Tankers didn't jive with a lot of people.

He seemed to want them to be even more meatshieldy than they are currently, while at the same time having less damage AND lower over all survivability.

I know. That makes no sense, but that's the concept that was being pushed for the longest time.

The Stamina concerns were never fully taken care of. Most non-WP Tankers are STILL forced into Fitness, even with IO sets that grant +recovery.

His posts make it sound like he was pulling for Tankers, at least in his own mind. It would be nice now to have a dev in our corner. BaB claims to be a Tanker, but he exerts ZERO creative control beyond trying to convince his friend of something. The rest of the current devs seem to range from simply ignoring them to being outright anti-Tankers.

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The road to villainy in Paragon City seems to be paved with good intentions.

The Circle of Thorns. Vanessa DeVore. Heck, even Frostfire started out attempting to be a hero ...

And there are characters who have become villains through no fault of their own like Terra or A Titan Named Joe.

Is there any chance that future content-- I'm leaning towards a Task Force!-- might give heroes the chance to redeem one of these characters?

Or maybe someone else? Say ...someone whose name rhymes with Dockwork Ring?

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A CoX take on the Suicide Squad could be pretty cool.

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Hey, Joe.

I'm a huge fan of the 5th Column. Even though I joined with City of Villains, their story has always fascinated me, and their archvillains are without a doubt my favorites. They had a cameo in i11 with mysterious hints, i12 will probably feature lots about the Path of the Dark and the 5th, but I'm waiting for the heavy hitter - Reichsman. What happened to him? Are there any hints you could share about the possible future endeavors of the 5th Column or their heavy hitter himself?

Thanks,

The Blackguard

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Isn't the Reichsman in cryo stasis in some old underground FP base in Faultline or something?

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Yes.
General thinking is that the revamp of Boomtown will involve Reichsman, the return and rise of the 5th Column and if Babbage roaming out there is any indication, some kind of progress on the Clockwork King arc.

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When the CoX novels, both sets of comics and the game itself are in contradiction on a fact or issue, which one is "right'?
Where do you determine what's cannon?

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Any chance at this video being captioned / subtitled for those of us who cannot hear?

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I can do a captioned/subtitled version for you over the weekend, if you'd like. Easy enough to just import the whole video into Vegas and add a text layer to it.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark Respite

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That would be fantastic. Much appreciated.

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To tide you over:

"Companions and compatriots, I am Silos. Mender Silos If you prefer.
I am founder and visionary of Ouroboros, a group dedicated to lifting this planet out of the abyss.

In my time, over a million years in the future, humanity is no more. Thus I have collected the greatest minds from across time and brought them here to this crucial point in an attempt to stop this annihilation.

However, we need your help. For all of Ouroboros’ resources and my own unparalleled intellect, we are not prepared to weather the coming storm. This world and its super powered being must be vigilant against this future event. The less you know about this event the better. But I will say this: the catalyst that brings about the unraveling of the cosmos starts here!

All of your petty squabbles amongst yourselves and your Rikti counterparts must be brought to an end before it reaches it inevitable crescendo.

If you are one of the entrusted, a keeper of the Secret of Ouroboros and the portal that brings you here, I welcome you. Our enclave is obfuscated and only those already familiar with time travel can perceive it presence.

We travel in time through the Pillar of Ice and Flame, an artifact from the end of the universe itself.

Of the eleven methods of time travel, The Pillar grants us the greatest temporal accuracy while also being the most accessible to the super powered beings needed to alter the Causality Curve. As a member of Ouroboros you have access to the Pillar. Use it wisely to relive you previous exploits, earn your precious badges, collect your needed salvage and fulfill whatever destiny you see laid out for yourself. We ask for nothing in return, only the hope that you will aid our Menders: Lazarus, Tesseract, Twilight Son and myself...in our own missions against the coming storm.

However, be warned: the timestream is not your own. A mysterious entity seeks to tear out the stitches we so carefully sew. The reason is unknown, as unknown as the identity of this malevolence. Were it not for these tears in time, humanity might have a chance at combating the coming storm. But now no one, not even I, can predict what the future holds…"

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Greetings: Fellow Humans.

I’m pleased that you liked the trailer. We all had a lot of fun working on it. I was excited about it specifically because it was really the first time I got to write something non-mission-y for all of you. Mender Silos is not the easiest guy to write. He’s a narcissistic super genius with a well centered Chi. He likes big words, complex plots and moonlight walks on the beach with his dog Grendal. Oh, wait, that last part was me. Never mind.

To giving credit where credit is due:
Script: Positron and I wrote the script. We went back and forth a couple times on it tightening it up and I think it shows. I really like the flow of it.
Voice Acting: Sam Mowry. He and the voice coach we use are top notch. I would love to work with this guy again. However, that means we’d have to have more Lord… ah, I mean Mender Silos in the game (something of a ‘hot topic’ item on the boards).
Video: David Lewis made the video. He’s been making the videos for us for sometime. He’s a great guy to work with and always does a great job.
Music: Mike Henry and Joe Lyford, our resident sound gurus. They make it all look so easy.

It was funny sitting in on the voice session because we (Positron and I) had initially wanted a more “Prussian” sounding voice (for reasons many of you already know). Sam did a couple passes with that type of accent and we liked it but we kept asking him to dial it back a bit. Finally, the voice coach asked him just to read the script normally, no accent. BAM! That was it. Positron and I looked at each other, we were smiling because we knew it was going to be awesome. The rest of the session was tremendous. I kept wanting him to read more.

We recorded the session, Mike and Joe worked their audio magic while David got busy putting all of it together. There you have it. From the forum posts above (and hopefully below) it looks like it was a complete success.

We’re all glad you like it and if you’re anything like me, you can’t wait to see more of them.

Oh, and for those who haven’t noticed 1st post! Expect many many more.

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Everything about this video is top notch. The music, voice over and dialogue.

I especially love Silos' delivery of the line about "precious badges." It's got the perfect hint of patronization in his voice.

Keep this Sam Mowry guy on hand.
I don't like WoW, but one thing I admit is that the voice acting and narration add to the gaming experience. Perhaps one day Sam can deliver a run down of the Phalanx and Arachnos in a cinematic when you roll a new hero or villain.

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All I'm going to say at this time is that the devil you know is preferable to the devil you don't.


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