Jester

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why can't we just have a freakin' broom closet in our bases where we can stash salvage until we need it? Sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry... the broom closet is already being used for a "costume quick-change" area...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually ours is full of brooms. Go figure, damn wiccans.. who let them into the SG anways?

I"ve never understood why people waste their money on these guides. The forums and various other websites always have all this info for free and are 99.9% of the time more accurate/up-to-date than any published guide. Sure they're greate for console games that never change, but for an MMO? What a waste, if you need badge info go to vidiotmaps, the rest has better guides right on these forums than anywhere else I've ever seen, even a poor game community has better guides than a printed book and coh has a fantastic community.

[ QUOTE ]
Just to put things back on track....
Kam posted this in an earlier post.

[ QUOTE ]
Basic base with a working worktable:

Energy Room, 150 K
Control Room, 100 K
Workshop, 100 K
Generator, 225 K
Mainframe, 150 K
Basic Worktable, 25 K

Grand total of three-quarters of a million Prestige, just to be able to do something with all these nifty drops. When you can cap out on a particular piece of salvage, losing further drops, before it's even possible to do anything with that salvage, something's wrong somewhere.

Kam


[/ QUOTE ]

While close... it's not completely accurate. In order to have a base that will operate only one worktable... Here's what you need.

Energy Room 150K
Generator 225K
Control Room 100K
Database 106k
Terminal 30k
Workshop, 100K
Basic Worktable 25K

Total 736k

You must have a control terminal to access your mainframe or database. This basic set-up will leave any SG with plenty of enough power for a while. It also provides just enough control to operate 2 basic work benches AND a zone teleporter.

[/ QUOTE ]

WRONG... yoou MUST have a Mainframe in order to have a database that functions and a terminal that functions.

Both databases and terminals are AUX pieces.

[ QUOTE ]
This system is SEVERELY broken in the way that it encourages and rewards only the most "uber" of Uber Guilds, and leaves smaller guilds (and individuals) completely in the cold.

Here's a little hint: we all pay the same for this game.

Designing the equivalent of "player housing" and making it something that is only available on the "Guild/Supergroup level" is a terrible idea.

Then making it so you also have to have a HUGE, incredibly active Supergroup to partake in any of the cool features, is just a terrible idea squared.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok..
1) The Smaller stuff is coming.. think about it this way.. the large supergroups are working out the bugs before you have to worry about it.. and believe me.. there have been MANY bugs to deal with (one player of my SG lost 71 MILLION influence doing a transfer to prestige)
2) Large Supergroups should have an advantage over smaller ones.. the arguement "I pay as much as they do" doesn't hold water because in actuality you don't. 75 active people working together pay more than you do solo or as a group of 74.
3) Just be patient and try to actually participate in the conversation here instead of screaming useless comments about how you pay as much as someone else and should be able to do anything you want.

[ QUOTE ]
If they lower the cost amount on everything, that just means that the bigger VG's (villain groups) will have MORE stuff in there base & have a a BIGGER base.

Personally, I see the DEV's are trying to make this game last a long time, by them making the changes that they are making (which I have no problem with), they are accomplishing what they wanted to do.

All I hear are people crying over how long it's going to take them & that they don't have enough to do what they want right away. Well you know what, play more often then. You know what, Rome wasn't built in a day & neither is your base. Build a room, put what you want in it, then move on to the next room. That's how it's going to work, that's how it's going to be.

Then again, you might want to get more people in your VG to make more money rather than just a few RL people. If you say that you shouldn't have to do that, then you are missing the point of a base.

The bases are meant for raids on each other, it's that simple. Stop trying to turn it into something that it's not. If you want to use your base for PvE, what's the point in that? I can create a base.....yahoo! Good for you. For those of us that are actually using the base for what it was intended to be used as, which is raiding each other for POWER, then we will work hard to get to where we want to be & we deserve everything we get in our base. We are managing just fine & to ask that something be changed after it has been tested over & over again is just rude. Maybe you aren't doing something correctly, maybe you don't understand a certain part of the game & are frustrated & are just lashing out at the DEV's because "it's always their fault". Well if that's that case, I can only show you the door, you have to walk through it.

Please stop making this into an issue & just follow the rules & have some fun.

BTW, my VG is about 15 strong & we already have 4 rooms (entrance room, control room, works room, & power room). Sure I can't build anything in it yet because of the rent & for what I want to go into those rooms costs alot, but the workstation room is completely done & built. Now it's time to move onto the control room where I will build what is needed for what I currectly have in the base. I can worry about what is coming later.....later. Next will be the power room, and so on & so on.

It's all fun people, take it for what it is, not what you want it to be. If you want it different, then go make your own game & allow us to play this one in peace.

Just my 2¢'s, not directed at anyone specific. Consider it constructive criticism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently your as stoned as your name claims.

A: your in the wrong thread for this.
B: your way off base. We've been doing the number crunching and right now the largest bases are IMPOSSIBLE to attain even in several months or a year.
C: There's a very viable concern here, folks are limited in how much salvage they can carry. They can't sell salvage for Inf or Prestige. If their inventory fills up their only option for many (for along time to come) is to simply dump it on another character or delete it (which I havn't even tried to do, I'm assuming that abilities there though).

Salvage is obviously going to be needed by many SG's at somepoint. However if folks are filling up on what they can carry only after a week of Salvage being in the game there's obviously a problem either with it dropping to often or the prestige costs being too high for the average SG to get a functioning work table up fast enough. Since most folks are saying that they're sg hasn't even been able to get either all the rooms they need or their power and control needs met I'd say the problem is with the prestige earning rates for the average SG.

Nice Katin. Which on a more realistic level for active members (say 15 people who play everyday)...

15 Members would have to play 70 hours a week earning 3000 prestige per hour. Now I used to play a lot.. and I mean A LOT... but I never hit the 70 hour mark in a week.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also for future reference, rent rate = 0.000278049 * Prestige ^ 0.2596

Or, Rent = Prestige * ( 0.000278049 * Prestige ^ 0.2596)

This formula has a near perfect for the rent info provided so far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this formula approach 3.8% as its upper limit? Or does that need to be artificially established by a domain?

[/ QUOTE ]

Argh math, head, pain, owwwww..

lol moving on. I can't answer the mathematics behind it but the basic concept is that while we can have a raidable base eventually... there's a lot of this whole system that won't be attainable or used by the majority of SG's out of sheer difficulties around initially earning, replacing destroyed items, and placing crafted upgrades that SG members have total control over even when they're not allowed to modify the base.

[ QUOTE ]
For those players who have reached the Salvage Limit with one or more pieces:

Is your SG capable of making a Worktable so you can consume some of that Salvage into the raw material? (Raw material has a limit of 99 currently).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and NO Posi.

Our SG has a 2 functioning worktables however they're tech and we hit the limit on arcane.

Luckily I'm the SG leader and base editor so I could swap tables out and put an arcane one in to produce some raw material but I've gotten a LOT more of the Orichalcum than any other arcane item. Thats what I hit the cap on of 20 on.

I've also got SG members who are giving me their salvage b/c they have no interest in it or they understand that b/c of prestige limits the SG leadership should be the ones making the decisions on what items get created first and placed.

Perhaps you could give the workshops a Storage Bin as an Aux Item that can attach to the worktables. With the storage bins SG members could dump their salvage into it and then anyone who wants to craft can do so using the SG's salvage stores (since they end up using the SG's prestige to place the item anyways...it wouldn't be any different in concept). The players can choose at that point to share their salvage or not. IF the SG runs out of room, they can make the choice to add another bin.

Yup I was just coming to post that i found this last night as well.

Everything I as I've understood is that Rent is every 2 weeks.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, let me clarify. I disagree with that also, but it seems that is the intent. But if you say under/around 15-20 active is a small SG, then absolutely they should be able to get a small raidable base going in a few months.

I am sorry that my group is too small to take advantage of this, it's my own fault for not doing the research on bases before buying CoV. It does appear to me that bases and raids were not intended for <10 person supergroups.

EDIT: RE: DJJester, thanks! Again I didn't do the proper research. This assuages some of my concerns, but I'm still really disappointed that my friends and I cannot have a raidable base.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what we're here for Red Tape.. help new folks out and try and get the dev's to see problems when we do

[ QUOTE ]
Small SG's aren't meant to have a functional base or do any raids.

I have a 4 person SG. The smallest setting for a raid is 8 vs 8. It would be nice if they only allowed as many raiders are there are defenders but that won't happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

The setting may be for 8vs8 but thats the MAX that can be in the raid not min. During beta I did a one on one raid.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On weekends let's say that 40 members sign in for an average of 4 hours each (in sg mode, above lv25 or equivalent time on lower lvs).

[/ QUOTE ]

First, nice post Magpie. I agree with your general assessment. Second, I realize you were going for "best case," but I think it's really much worse than you predict. Another factor is that players start gaining infamy/influence at a progressively lower rate somewhere in their 20s and none post 35 if they run in SG-mode all the time. Our SG has already been having discussions about this. We want to get a nice base ASAP, but we also want to be able to buy enhancements for our villains. I, for one, don't plan to run in SG-mode much post 20 (or whenever the infamy drop becomes noticeable). Ideally this wouldn't be an issue after I have one L40, as I could mule infamy to my lower toons, but I'm not so sure about that. With heroes, the influence doesn't really start to pile up until the 40s, so I'm not expecting villains to really have a lot of excess infamy until they increase the level cap. (Or, at least not for several months, whichever comes first.)

I think that, at least for a while, most people are not going to want to run in SG-mode in their late 20s and 30s, so that they can buy at least some SOs. That's just going to further compound the problem you have detailed, by significantly reducing the average prestige per hour, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why I posted the costs for rooms as he asked for. Working on getting more accurate numbers

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In early raid testing on COV mainframes went down in 6 hits from a stalker.

Having never seen a placed super computer I can not say how many hit points it has, but if it is anywhere close to 6 hits you can bet that it will be destroyed during a raid...

[/ QUOTE ]

This could also border on griefing...you can bet that most raiding parties will fully destroy core items and anything else they can find whenever possible. Rest assured there will be alot of griefing complaints from raids if things can be permanently destroyed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not griefing. Its a valid tactic in a base raid. Thats the nature of PvP.

The prices for everything to replace items is just far to unreasonable and potentially could set the sg back by MONTHS. No one wants a useless base.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


A Supercomputer costs 1.5 mil to place... loose that in a base raid as well and you just got a huge chunk of hurt put on ya.

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking down an item in a raid does not automatically mean it is permanently destroyed. There is a base chance that any destroyed item is fully restored at the end of the raid (I don't have the stats in front of me so I can't quote the number). This chance is increased by building Robotic Fabricators and the Flames of Hephaestus. Each adds a percentage to the recovery chance.

And, of course, for in instant raids everything is restored to full at the end of the raid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats STILL a chance I'm not willing to take considering it would take well over a week to re-earn the prestige to rebuild it. Especially for a 1% increase in a stat.

Thats NOT a good deal for the SG. Not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there's also the question of how many hitpoints it has. If it's a lot, who would bother damaging the supercomputer in a raid? You'll be too busy fighting/accomplishing objectives to do that, I'd guess.

And that consists of destroying anchors or interacting with stuff, right? Not the supercomputer...

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about it this way..

If the supercomputer is the only control your base has (due to costs of rooms and equipment this would be quite likely for a long time to come) if that is taken out all base defenses, med facilities, etc shut down. So that if the defenders die they now have to go to a hospital and run back to the base portal where an attacker simply goes back to their base and runs to the raid teleporter.

In addition it takes one stalker six hits to wipe out a basic generator. The basic control equipment is similar. The supercomputer's not going to be that much tougher so, while the defenders are distracted defending their IoP or other vital systems it takes one person with invis or a good respawn point to run to the control room or generator room and shut the whole base down and cripple the SG for possibly weeks to come if those items don't regen after the raid.

If there's a grudge there between the SG and VG or SG and SG... they're going to hurt them as much as possible financially as well as trying to get that IoP.

[ QUOTE ]
Why should a crafted item cost anything to place at all? We found the parts for it and made it ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

The crafted items are better than that which you can buy (often by a lot) so I understand them havnig costs..

However the costs are fare too high.. considering that my SG with 20 people working for several hours was only able to come up with about 100k prestige.. in a day.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


A Supercomputer costs 1.5 mil to place... loose that in a base raid as well and you just got a huge chunk of hurt put on ya.

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking down an item in a raid does not automatically mean it is permanently destroyed. There is a base chance that any destroyed item is fully restored at the end of the raid (I don't have the stats in front of me so I can't quote the number). This chance is increased by building Robotic Fabricators and the Flames of Hephaestus. Each adds a percentage to the recovery chance.

And, of course, for in instant raids everything is restored to full at the end of the raid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats STILL a chance I'm not willing to take considering it would take well over a week to re-earn the prestige to rebuild it. Especially for a 1% increase in a stat.

Thats NOT a good deal for the SG. Not even close.

Here are the figures for building rooms. This does NOT include costs of actually placing Items. As items that are crafted through worktables do not tell you before you craft them how much Prestige it will costs to place them.

Figures for Upgrading Plots:
Hidden (From Smallest to Largest):
0
3,307,722
4,671,491
6,597,540
8,623,310
11,271,093
14,027,605
17,458,263
26,573,949

Secure (From Smallest to Largest):
11,250,000
20,000,000
31,250,000
48,828,125
70,312,500
101,250,000
137,812,500

Vault Costs:
250,000
750,000
1,500,000
(start secure versions)
1,500,000
2,250,000
3,000,000
9,000,000 (only vault capable of holding 2 IoP's in one room)

Medical:
150,000 (max 4 Medical Devices)
525,000 (Max 12 Medical Devices)

Workshop:
100,000 (max 2 worktables)
400,000 (max 3 worktables)

Transport:
150,000 (Max 2 teleporters)
150,000 (Max 2 teleporters, slightly larger room)
(start secure versions)
600,000 (Max 4 teleporters)
600,000 (Max 4 teleporters, slightly larger room)
1,350,000 (Max 8 teleporters)

Defense:

1,500,000
3,000,000
4,500,000
6,000,000
12,000,000
14,000,000
37,500,000

Control:
100,000
150,000
750,000
1,500,000
(start secure version)
1,750,000
2,500,000
3,950,000
5,000,000
5,950,000
6,250,000
8,450,000
12,500,00

Energy:

150,000 (Max 1 Generators)
750,000 (Max 1 Generators)
900,000 (Max 2 Generators)
900,000 (Max 2 Generators)
(start secure version)
2,900,000 (Max 2 Generators, 2 Defense)
4,900,000 (Max 2 Generators, 4 Defense)
8,900,000 (Max 2 Generators, 8 Defense)
16,900,000 (Max 2 Generators, 16 Defense)

Decorative:

150,000 (all sizes cost the same)

Hey Manticore, how about swapping with Statesman?

I've met him.. I'd rather meet you. lol

As per Magpie's Request I'll get some costs posted so folks can do the math.

I just have to log into game at Lunch and grab them hehe forgot to leave my UI on during screenshoting lol.

Magpie I'm actually going to be on the air with w00t Radio from 7 - 9 eastern. After 9 i should be available though.

Magpie, some of your numbers are good some are assuming a bit much I think.

If you want exact numbers for plots of land etc toss me a global chat tonight (@DJ Jester) and I'll pop into the DoIDD base and let ya know whats what.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A Supercomputer costs 1.5 mil to place... loose that in a base raid as well and you just got a huge chunk of hurt put on ya.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it confirmed that destroyed items need to be replaced at full cost?

[/ QUOTE ]

I never did an IoP raid so I don't know. I know there are some items that are supposed to help increase the chance that an item is repaired after a raid so I would assume if it fails that chance you loose it lock stock and salvage.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't think of a reason why the devs would want to "avoid" having level 50's generate extra prestige. It sounds like a perfect reward for maxing out your character, to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you want anything other than level 50's in your SG then?

[/ QUOTE ]

<ul type="square">[*]Because they're nice people[*]Because I have more than one character in the SG and only some of them are at 50[*]Because we'd find helping the SG get a good base as entertaining an end-game as a kheldian[*]Because I make choices of whose in my SG for reasons beyond "who can do the most for us in terms of making us the most uber-SG in the game"[/list]
Those are just the first few that came to mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicely said Pilcrow. I guess this means that Positron's just an elitist snob.. who only would want people in an sg that could benefit him the most. Some hero...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That 150k you earned in 2 hours wouldn't buy a generator. Something that in a base raid can be destroyed in six hits by a high damage dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. If anyone ever gets a raid capable base going, I think I might consider destroying someone else's generator griefing. I understand that it's a viable tactic, but at a quarter million for the bare bones version, 1.5 mil for a quality crafted one destroying it sets the SG back by a huge amount. I couldn't bring myself to do it, that's just harsh. And i would have to think long and hard about not "/petitioning griefing" it if someone did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah and in base raids any smart group is going to take out the control and or the generators first.. take out one or the other and all the defenses stop working. Especially Control since there's no such thing as a back up control (that I've seen) like there is the backup capacitors.

A Supercomputer costs 1.5 mil to place... loose that in a base raid as well and you just got a huge chunk of hurt put on ya.