Impish Kat

Heyas Ex, thanks for the heads up.

Since the Bind/Macro Request thread got nuked, there's been a rash of new "I need a bind/macro" threads scattered about the Player Question Forums.

Can we use one of those threads to start up a new stickied/saved one? This one has a few reference links to get started with.

I'm afraid I may have to remove Zenith Force from the list, since, well, uhmm,..... *sigh*..... I deleted the secret attic in order to expand and renovate.

I may toss in Mischievous Urchins, if I can get the TP room done in good time.

I've been using floor safe + floor tile. Similar idea. I like your version better.

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Base Editing Crash

Server: Freedom
Zone: Base, out to Shark.
Character name: Nuclear Tease
Time: 12/8/2008
Location: Any
Mission: Any
Mission Contact: N/A
Bug Description: I had been in base, editing for a number of hours. In and out of the edit window, in and out of the plot upgrade window. Finally I needed to craft a teleporter so I tried to zone to shark (as my cap beacon refused to link! ) I got this error. I suspect you really dont want me to call Cryptic up eh?

"City of Heroes encountered an error. Please report this to Cyrptic Studios on the beta forums. Thank you."

Assertion failed

Program: ...am Files (x86)\City of Heroes\CityOfHeroes.exe
Time: Mon Dec 08 06:51:42 AM
Process ID: 2248
File: c:\src\utilitieslib\utils\superassert.c
Line: 1857
Expression: 0

Error Message: CRT abort() called

ERROR: swDumpStackToBuffer - timeout (258) waiting for dumpHeap is NOT corrupted
Last windows SYSTEM error: Not enough storage is available to process this command.

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Yup. Same thing happened to me.

CRASH when opening e-mail in base editor

Server: Justice
Zone:
Character name: Bo'Tanika
Time: 11:02 PDST
Location: Mischievous Urchins base
Mission:
Mission Contact:

Bug Description:
While editing base, had chat window up.
Noticed I had new e-mail.
Clicked to open.
E-mail window got as far as the outline, then game crashed.
This is the second time it's happened.
Auto Crash report sent.

*edit: Upon verifying files and returning to the game, I was unable to reproduce. The E-mail was sent from a spammer (ggggg-guess who), so maybe that is a factor.

Base Salvage Racks labeling incorrectly

Server: Justice
Zone:
Character name: Bo'Tanika
Time: 12/5/08 10:50 pm PST
Location: Mischievous Urchins base
Mission:
Mission Contact:
Bug Description: Base salvage rack was labeled as "Inspiration Collector" to me. SGmate saw it labeled as "Enhancement Table". All salvage racks were affected. Screenie of salvage rack holding IO salvage, but labeled as "Inspiration Collector". Haven't tested for reproducibility, but SGmate says they're still reading as "Enhancement Table" (after exiting base, running a mission and returning to base).

Crash when exiting base

Server: Justice
Zone: Base to Talos
Character name: Bo'Tanika
Time: 12:20 am PST
Location: Mischievous Urchins base
Mission:
Mission Contact:
Bug Description: Had been editing base. Exited editor. Ran around a little bit. Exited base through portal to Talos. Crashed. Window came up with the following info:

Assertion failed

Program: C:\Program Files\City of Heroes\CityOfHeroes.exe
Time: Sat Dec 06 12:16:23 AM
Process ID: 10120
File: c:\src\utilitieslib\utils\superassert.c
Line: 1857
Expression: 0

Error Message: CRT abort() called

ERROR: swDumpStackToBuffer - timeout (258) waiting for dumpHeap is NOT corrupted
Last windows SYSTEM error: Not enough storage is available to process this command.

Link to Forum Discussions:

Is is any wonder he hasn't been back, when we allow trolls to veer us so far off track?

And yes, I include myself when I say "we" and "us", I've been culpable. But I'm trying to step back to say: Hey, maybe we should re-focus to the original intent of the thread. Maybe we should take discussions to the Base Forums, where we can hash things out to our hearts' content.

/shrug
Just sayin'

PS
I'm not too surprised that Sunstorm hasn't been back. He's probably as busy as everyone else, polishing i13 up for release. At this point, it's nearly "in the can", as they say, and I'm sure there's all kinds of loose ends that need tidying up.

OMG
I cannot believe you guys are still feeding this troll. I put that guy on ignore as soon as I realized he only wanted to rant.

This was supposed to be a Q&A thread. Y'know... where we direct our questions to Sunstorm.

What happened to our calm, cool and collected community?

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***You are ignoring this troll***

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Unless I'm completely missing something...

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No, I don't think you're missing anything.
I think somebody else forgot their [rant][/rant] commands.

I think maybe we've meandered away from the Q&A part of this thread. To which I must admit some culpability.

Moar Questions for our shiney new Redname?

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We dismantled the FUSION base in preparation for I13 They pyramids are gone.

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OH NOOOOOES!!!

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I have not seen nearly enough discussion about the changes to bases to head off such panic, just a few very vaguely worded announcements about base repricing (who could hate base repricing, lower costs are better, no need for anyone to panic, right?)

The few times I have answered questions about I13 changes in the BaseBuildersInc. global channel, there has always been a fair amount of surprise at the elimination of base salvage ... I think that folks who have not followed the last month of discussions in the Testing or Base Building forums will be in for one very nasty shock.


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QFT

I have had several discussions with other SG Leaders, trying to encourage them to come here and read up on the issues. But that is only a small handful of folks, and most of them do not understand the situation fully. There are many, many, many leaders out there that are going to be completely blindsided by this whole thing.

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Q. Base salvage, why replace it, and what will happen to it?
...base salvage tends to ...be a source of confusion with Invention salvage.

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Sunstorm,
honey,
sweetheart....
Practically NOBODY is buying into this argument.
Please stop. Stop, for the love of Bast, STOP using it!
It's insulting.
Really.

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Q. Salvage Storage Racks, Why only 30 pieces of invention salvage?

A. In short, the market. The market system is designed to have a steady supply of salvage coming in. If large salvage racks were added, it would create a temporary supply problem of unknown duration until the salvage racks filled up.

Since having salvage temporarily dry up would be a big problem for all players, this number was intentionally kept low. Once the impact on the markets as a whole can be measured, we will look at adjusting these numbers again.

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There are a few problems with this argument.
1. The conversion process itself creates more salvage than can be held.

2. The supply is going to dry up regardless, because you are effectively removing a supply source, while simultaneously increasing demand with base building and dual builds. Since there has been no indication that salvage drop rates will go up to cover this loss, there will be shortages. Period. It will happen. Nerfing the salvage racks so drastically is not going to make it happen any less. Raising the capacity is not going to make it happen any more.

3. As has been pointed out several times, the 30 item limit is far below what a lvl 50 could carry. Is it really your intention to have us turn our lvl 50's into mules? I personally do not have a lvl 50 (several alts, I do not PL), so I would be at a distinct disadvantage. And I don't relish the thought of asking my other SG leaders to turn their lvl 50's into mules. Frankly, the necessity for muling is what turned me off from other games.



As for the change to invention salvage overall.... I can only repeat what I've said before:
[color=#37FDFC]Choosing to play the market as an individual is one thing, forcing the individual to do it for the group is just wrong. [color= #FFFFFF]

However.... It is obvious that we are past the point of no return. I encourage you to re-evaluate the storage capacity issues at the very least. Perhaps, as some have suggested, take an item that is already in the system, and tweak it to accept the special event salvage. I think it would go a long way toward good faith with the community.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

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wow first day on the job and past my question like i was standing still..

i feel so happy now.

seriously id like my question answered.


why dont you open some of the ingame items that already exsist?

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Wow.
Snark much?
Lots of peeps have questions.

I believe the answer to yours is implied in Sunstorm's opening post:

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Q. Why was X feature not looked into?

A. Actually, we looked at a lot of features. [color=#37FDFC]We have plans for[color= #FFFFFF] not only Base Raiding and the Cathedral of Pain, but also [color=#37FDFC]the base editor[color= #FFFFFF] as well. We want to add [color=#37FDFC]new base decorations, new permissions features,[color= #FFFFFF] and a few [color=#37FDFC]more goodies[color= #FFFFFF] as well. [color=#37FDFC]We are still working on these, and they will be added in as we can get them completed.[color= #FFFFFF]

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<ul type="square">[*] Zenith Force[*] Justice[*] Hero[*] 8x12 plot, 3.5 mil (prstg. on hand)[*] approx. 8 semi-active players, design includes a secret vault[/list]

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Prestige Refunds: The programming team has set up a refund system for all base plots, rooms and items. As soon a player loads into a base, that base will automatically refund the Prestige difference. This is crucial: the base must be entered in order to trigger the Prestige refund. If your base is not loaded, then the refund will not happen until someone enters it.

Teleporter recipes: The Rare salvage requirement on these should be removed in the next patch.


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Thankyou thankyou thankyou!


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We are actively looking at ways to make the pathing system easier for base builders, however, in the future there may be pathing requirements for raiding.

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Understood. I'll enjoy the loosened rules while they last.


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Items in personal inventory will be placed at the reduced price after the issue goes live. Merry Christmas!


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Yay!


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We want to add new base decorations, new permissions features, and a few more goodies as well. We are still working on these, and they will be added in as we can get them completed.

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Bolded to emphasize personal priority preferance. Glad to know this stuff is on the table.


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So, beyond that, I’ve been a long time reader of the base threads, and am looking forward to seeing the new bases that will be built. My goal is always to make base building better, and we will keep working to bring in new features to improve bases.

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Welcome aboard!

Base Repricing

1) How will the repricing of bases affect you personally?
Repricing is based on Prestige, so it doesn’t actually affect me “personally” except in terms of my time. Both of my SG’s will be able to afford larger plots/rooms. For my smaller SG it will mean a larger TP room, for my moderate SG, control and power rooms. See question #3 below for an estimate on my personally invested time to bring these things about.

2) Will you dismantle your base to gain the additional prestige from the repricing?
Somewhat. I will not be dismantling any crafted items, though there may be some finagling with rooms and placing/replacing items in order to maximize my “refund”.

3) How long would this process take you if you were to engage in this practice?
I anticipate that it will take me 20+ hours for my larger base – I’m obsessive that way. Probably half that for my smaller base.

4) What are the positive and negative concerns regarding repricing?
Positive: larger plot for less cost
Negative: Negotiating contracts with the BCWU (Base Construction Worker’s Union).

5) How will this feature affect you long term and short term?
Long term: more space = more design opportunity
Short term: more obsessive designing = less missions ‘n’ stuff.

And now for the can of worms…
fat worms that should be fish bait…
Base Salvage Exchange to Invention Salvage

1) What are the negative effects on your base for this feature implementation?

• Using the “any” option when converting brainstorms will produce much more salvage, yet I am limited to what will fit in my pockets and the new 30 item storage racks. Therefore, it will be necessary to increase the number of storage racks to hold the amount of salvage created in the conversion process. Lucky me, I get to pay rent on each of those. Though I don’t find the rent particularly onerous (at this time), I do find it curiously coincidental.
• With the loosened raid pathing, I will be creating a storage vault, accessible only to the leaders with edit permissions. It will, of necessity, need to hold at least 4-6 more salvage racks due to the new 30 item limit.
• Due to the new 30 item limit on storage racks, we will no longer be able to store Event Salvage, as I anticipate the limited capacity to be used for invention salvage.
• I anticipate that the Empowerment Stations will see a marked reduction in usage, as salvage requirements for a mere 1hr buff will be competing with the more permanent IO Enhancements.
• Using invention salvage will necessitate using the market. This brings a subtle form of PvP into base crafting. (Please see Castle's post) . This is not even a group form of PvP, the brunt of this activity will be born by myself and my leaders. In spite of the fact that we created our groups to be specifically non-PvP, the new salvage system forces us into a form of it. Choosing to play the market as an individual is one thing, forcing the individual to do it for the group is just wrong.

2) What are the positive effects on your base for this feature implementation?
Since none of us ever really traded salvage that much… None. No, really. None.

3) How long will it take you to adjust to learning this new system?
I’m a fairly quick learner… Explaining it to my SG leaders has been challenging. I anticipate that learning the recipes and becoming knowledgeable on what salvage is most valuable/efficient will require more study.

4) What side effects to this system do you currently see from transitioning the old to new system?

• Since I can no longer load up my pockets to see what recipes are available to me, I will need to shuffle between the salvage racks and worktables to find the necessary salvage for the desired recipe(s). This is annoying.
• I will have no choice but to participate in the market in order to craft items for my base.
• I will need to be knowledgeable as to which items are most worth saving, which may vary depending on the items I desire to craft. It also means intermittent trips to WW and/or Venders, a time consuming and tedious task.
• Participating in the market brings in a variable that did not exist with the pre-i13 base salvage system.

• a. With the base salvage system, an item always “cost” the same amount of components to craft. Using the market creates a variable in cost as the invention salvage prices fluctuate.
  

• b. Furthermore, with the base salvage system, the cost was sharedamongst the members of the Supergroup. With the introduction of the market variable,the cost will inevitably be born by the base architect (me) and the SG leaders (2 others) out of their personal influence wallets. My guess is that this will discourage folks from making bases until they have a level 50 toon that they can use to farm inf/salvage.
  

• Since there has been no indication of increasing salvage drops, this is essentially removing a supply source while simultaneously increasing demand (bases, dual builds). I expect to see a glut of some salvage (the stuff base builders don’t want/need), but a serious shortage on others. This will affect anyone who crafts IO’s for their characters.

5) What security concerns do you have regarding this change?
Theft will be more tempting than ever. New members will be restricted for longer periods, which will also restrict them from using the inspie bins. This will undoubtedly be a discouragement. I would like to see the inspie bins separated from salvage racks and enchancie tables, and better settable permissions for said racks and tables. This is a long, long, long standing request by the base building community.

Additional Notes:
Ex., I know you’re in a bit of a pickle, picking up several dropped balls so close to issue release. It’s frustrating for us too, since we’ve been giving this same feedback for over a month, and now it seems we’ve just been talking into a void all this time. We all know it’s too late to add any drastic adjustments to this system and it will go live.
I know you say you’re not looking for solutions (this in itself speaks volumes), but there are a few simple ones that I think could be easily patched in between issues 13 & 14. Heck, just increasing the rack capacity would seem easy enough to actually squeeze into 13. Thank you for your efforts on our behalf.

Thank you, Lighthouse, for all your efforts on our behalf.

I know it wasn't always easy. Especially lately it seems like you were stuck between a rock and a hard place, yet you handled it with courage, steadfastness and grace... truly an exemplary hero.

Blessings and best wishes for your future.

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NOPE

Oh, and here's another way of looking at that list of TIER 1 arcane recipes

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Thanks for the feedback.

You don't say if those prices are from Live or Test,

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Sorry, Live servers. Edited to reflect that, thanks.

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those prices do NOT reflect the massive increased demands for Magical rares that will result when I13 goes live.

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Indeed.


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For smaller groups, or 'alts-only' sorts, this may very well result in the 'new cheaper' bases being far more expensive to add functionality to than before...

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And yet Posi himself said that it would make it so much easier for smaller groups to acquire the uber-cool raid items.


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And it'll be a boom market for farmers.

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They are already rubbing their hands with glee.


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Unless I'm missing some piece of the puzzle- which is quite possible.

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NOPE, you've pretty much got it.

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Just rethought this a little- are we ending up with the same CHANCE for a salvage drop, but with only one table? That would have the effect of doubling INV salvage drop rates, essentially. If so, no prob.

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NOPE
Plasma explained it here

Oh, and here's another way of looking at that list of TIER 1 arcane recipes

Does anyone know what the new recipe for the AES will be?

Or am I blind and I just missed it somewhere?

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Decreasing supply, however (which is the effect of allowing hoarding), is bad, because while it increases prices, it can also result in shortages, which makes people hoard more.


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And did you miss the part about how there will be no increase in Invention Salvage drops to replace the Base Salvage drops?

Please see this post and the ones following it.

One supply is being removed... not replaced.... removed.
*poof*
gone
void

This IS a decrease in supply.

By your own statement, this is bad.

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so what I am seeing is that as far as IO salvage requirements go...they went right ahead and did all the stuff we feared and told them not to do and made it extremely retartedly complicated on top of that......great....and people wonder why we were pissed in the first place.

Can someone tell me how the placement costs are being handled if you already have items crafted and sitting on your person ready to place? I'm on a hard deadline at work and wont be able to even get in game till maybe Sat.

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In closed beta testing, placement costs for items crafted but not yet placed were what they were under I12. If you want lower placement costs, you must re-craft.

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Well...d'oh!!

I was about to log on and craft 4 telepads.... That inhales.

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As far as I understand it, the placement fee for teleporters has not changed. So I'd say craft away on those. Just maybe double check PlasmaStream's list before crafting other stuff.