Grey Pilgrim

I don't know what it means, to be honest. Sometimes I get the vibe that he's going to wait and see how things go (with more of the implication that they are going to sit), and other times that more are to come. We should at the least be getting some more animation changes.

And... that's saddening. First Evil Geko, now you. *sighs* I dunno, I understand the frustration and feel it as well, but I hate to lose people that help bring attention to the topic. It's regrettable that we aren't hearing more, but it doesn't mean the devs aren't listening.

It would be nice if Kheldians did get more work on par with the fix to Dominators. That was a wholesale AT problem, and I think much of what bothers Kheldians is the overall design, mainly Cosmic Balance.

You know, comparing human form to dominators is a great way to think of it. Not sure why I didn't think of that with all my comparisons to the inherent with them, heh. They have some control and some damage and some mitigation. Best comparison I can think of.

And boy, even that comparison makes me sad. Doms do better damage (just on a quick comparison to Energy assault and PB attacks) and have more control, and they get access to fairly regular mez protection without a crash. This is the reason we keep arguing for improvements for Peacebringers... they just look wonky and shoddy if you compare to other ATs. Sure, they can play the game, but not nearly as smooth or well as other ATs.

The Dom comparison at least is an argument for changes to Pulsar and Solar Flare we have been asking for, if not an adjustment to our Inherent and overall damage.

They do comment less than they used to, though BAB and Castle did the most of it even then. I'm thinking it's new policy more than anything, which I can kind of understand. Some people responded badly even to jokes from devs, which was maddening.

Like I noted earlier, they are much more chatty in closed beta than they are when things open up more. Synapse was posting everywhere in Closed, for instance. I'm not sure if that points to a policy of sorts to be more quiet in Open, or something more sad, like they've made the adjustments they're going to and they leave it behind for future stuff. Hopefully that's just doom talking.

I will keep hoping and posting for more changes, however. There is merit to what we are saying.

I've just never been able to justify it in build because of its weak damage. I might try fitting it in once we get three extra slots... that's also been a problem for me with fitting it in.

That's how it sounds to me as well, which we all responded to right away. And Solar Flare is analagous to Foot Stomp only outside of Rage on Tanks, and of course Brutes can count on Rage and Fury (while we cannot count on our inherent to always be boosting our damage, even on a large team). Brutes are also well known offensive juggernauts, so I really fail to see the comparison at all.

Adding to the strange connection that statement makes, Dwarf Form is what relates to Tanks, clearly. Human form is a little confused, but it's closer to Scrappers and Stalkers than Tanks. Solar Flare should be stronger than Foot Stomp for tanks, and it really isn't at this point, especially with the KB.

I don't see why it would be an issue, as it was an open post in the closed beta and the thinking still applies here. Arbiter Hawk has also said the same to me and others in PMs. Much better to quote it here than have me and others keep paraphrasing what he said. I just wanted to mind my Ps and Qs and not have a dev be annoyed with me for posting it. I honestly can't see the issue.

I also have the feeling that Arbiter Hawk is being extremely cautious. I have said more than once that I applaud this, as I don't want things on Live given to us and taken away, but I think he's being overly cautious. That quote above especially confuses me when it mentions AOE damage. I noted this in the closed beta forums, as I'm not seeing how Peacebringers are monsters of AOE damage. Their two ranged AOEs are weak and do KB, and our one good PbAOE is hamstrung by doing KB. Photon Seekers is nice, but still on a long recharge, and the nuke has a crash and on par with Rain of Arrows for Blasters, which has no crash and recharges much more quickly.

We're actually rather mediocre for AOE damage in human form. I use it more for good ST damage, to be honest. It's not far off of Nova, from Smiling Joe's numbers, but I think Nova's range makes it all work better.

I don't know. We're kind of running into issues of our inherent again. I would like to see human form made more competitive with Scrappers and Stalkers, and Solar Flare would be a welcome part of that. We're always going to have less health than Scrappers (and apparently a little or no mez protection), so I don't see how giving our damage a roughly equal footing would be a problem.

I appreciate the need to look at the overall equation (we've been noting how much Cosmic Balance muddies things), but I really do think they're being overly cautious with Solar Flare and Pulsar. For the rest, I think Kheldians would work better if their Inherent was adjusted to work better at all times, not unlike the methodology behind Domination (forget who mentioned that idea, but it's a good one).

Yeah, the Peacebringer one is like... RoA's damage. Only it has a crash, etc. It's not terrible when used with Build Up and especially if your team is giving you some damage buffs, but it still could use some help. That's... yet another thing that Kheldians need adjusting with. The devs are scared that they're somehow going to get overpowered, but their different capabilities are really not even in line with the ATs they're supposed to be able to mimic.

I don't really think they are supposed to be a panic button. Seems more like it's supposed to be a big AOE opener. Panic button powers seem more like mass mezzes or shields. But... I do like the idea of making them a little more unique depending on the AT, and having the PbAOE ones be less risky to use.

Well, it would be nice to not need to respec unless you wanted to (especially since our respec system is lengthy and difficult to use... and this would cause a LOT of respecs for most players). But more important, I wouldn't want an enhancement randomly deleted on me. I'm more than happy for this to wait until they can make it work... it's not like we haven't played without the slots for years now.

Might be a good idea to go with, since each AT does have different needs. I think I'd probably prefer a non-crashing nuke for Kheldians, since they tend to have more toggles as well.

Thread going about this in the Blaster forums. Nukes in their current form are rather weak, either lowering their recharge and getting them to be more like other crashless nukes is the way to go, or upping their damage to match up with their recharge and crash. Either way, it'd be an improvement from what the nukes are now. But it's being discussed plenty there already.

Yup... it doesn't add up a whole lot, does it? I don't really get it all that much.

Flux, every set cannot be in the top tier, and it wouldn't be a good thing if they were. Sets should be allowed to be different for flavor and to be interesting, and no matter what, there are going to be powersets that are seen as middle of the road or more powerful. Case in point, Energy is weaker than Fire in the Blast sets, but it also offers more mitigation and has a distinctly different playstyle. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing.

In fact, all your reasoning smacks of how people talk down about Dual Pistols for Blasters. The set does have the issue that all the damage types buy Fire and Standard aren't all that helpful for Blasters, but otherwise, it's middle of the road for damage. The numbers SHOW IT, but to hear people talk, you would think you were shooting spitwads at enemies. I have a Dual Pistols Blaster and had to point out how wrong that impression was many, many times.

Also, you're going to need to get your measuring stick adjusted if you think +4/x8 is a balancing point for the developers. Some players have that measuring stick for themselves and the sets they play, but that's the advantage of our game having a difficulty slider. They can play there if they want, but no one HAS to. And no powerset or AT needs to be able to, either.

You can certainly point to what other ATs can do and show that Peacebringers or Warshades have issues that the other ATs do not, but you're not going to get any traction if your balance point is that "Kheldians should totally be able to fight +4/x8 with no problems."

The game is designed with SOs in mind, while still accounting for the bonuses IOs offer. That's well short of +4/x8 (which is a level attainable through a build and player ability, which is good to remember as well).

Aganhim, that change to Warshade's Dwarf form was pretty helpful. A lot of players were pointing out that the longer mire in Dwarf Form made Dwarf for Warshades a lot weaker than Peacebringers. Technically, it was a nerf to Warshades overall damage potential, but it did make fighting in Dwarf more valid for them.

I write literary fiction (so... like short stories from Hemingway or Steinbeck or Sherman Alexie, to cover a broad range). So no genre stuff like sci-fi or fantasy. I do have some ideas for a fantasy series, but I'm not really trying for that right now.

Not sure if that sounds good to you (literary fiction being more about style and engaging ideas and characters than badassitude, though it can have humor), but if it does, I could think about adding you on as a reader. I already have a couple readers (my wife and another writer, both with a lot of reading and writing backgrounds), but more eyes generally does not hurt. We can see about it if you are interested.

The dev chat thread also said they are re-thinking the old Tier 9 powers (which I assume means the godmodes for defense/resist sets that caused you to crash when they dropped). Players have disliked those for a long time, and newer "godmode" powers that have a smaller crash for less of a buff are enjoyed much more and used more. I know I actually use mine on my WP and Shield Tankers, as opposed to my Invuln.

The problem for nukes has also been the same: too much punishment for the benefit it offers. If they make the current nukes like Beam Weapon's, I'd like that (it has higher recharge than RoA and co., but also does more damage). It'd be up faster than other nukes are currently, wouldn't cause a crash, and would do heftier damage than Judgement can.

Which is another reason that I think they are looking at nukes. Yes, incarnate powers are nice, but they are all, in essence, a crashless nuke. I use them at the start of a mob without thinking on my Blasters or any other characters (for the most part). This is not the case with crashing nukes. Crashing nukes do need a buff, and I think this is potentially in the right direction.

And remember, everyone, this is something they are thinking about doing. I doubt we would see these changes (if they happen) before I22, and we don't even know what the specifics would be. Still, couldn't hurt to tell Synapse about this thread, to have some feedback to play with. I think I will do that.

Few things here. Glad you caught the numbers issue, as I was confused as heck by what you were saying. I KNEW there was no way that Human Form AOEs were as good as Nova like you were saying (though Solar Flare is competitive). Now, if Synapse does make nukes not crash anymore (like he said he was *debating* doing for them in the recent dev chat... that's not a guarantee, of course), that would be a nice boost for human form AOE damage. Might use that nuke a little more than when it sounds like fun.

I would agree that Nova needs some adjusting, probably an improvement to its ST damage so it is competitive with Human Form.

I also think Cosmic Balance needs some adjusting so it works more nicely with forms. Things like making Nova have a higher damage cap to work with it better, or making CB buff less so our other powers can function better while solo or on small teams (or when we move a little away from our teammates), etc., would all be helpful. I think CB is making things more difficult to balance than it should, even if I like how insanely you can be buffed on an 8 man team.

For the KB in Solar Flare, I know you can land another attack right after it goes off (AOE or otherwise), but that's it. I make use of this with all my Blasters (M80 followed by Full Auto is helpful on an AR Blaster to cut down on return fire while Full Auto is animating).

It's still less useful on a melee AT, because once the target is out of range, you can't land any more hits. That's why KB on a melee AT is a detriment. It really shouldn't be seen as a surprise that the devs are acknowledging this, either... they did as much when they made all those melee KB powers do KD back in I10. Still, I would say KB is kept in ranged powers because it is a help there. Nova form or Blasters don't really care if it gets KB'd, because they can follow up just fine.

What is surprising is that Arbiter Hawk is seeing that and a change to Pulsar as too much of a change on top of the changes we have now (this is an important distinction to make, probably... he just doesn't want to give us too many adjustments and then have to take some away, or so it sounds like). I disagree with that and am surprised by it, since those two requests aren't as changing for performance as an adjustment to Cosmic Balance or something like that.

Castle once said that the game is balanced around SOs, but that he still had to account for IO builds (which they do with recharge numbers, etc., for powerful attacks), which is a good design approach. Even though he is gone, the devs still seem to aim for that, I would say. And yes, +4/8 is not a balance line at all. I play ATs and powerset combos that people say they can face that kind of thing, but I don't play at that difficulty level. I know I can do it with my Fire/Fire Tank in RWZ, at least, but I didn't find it all that fun. It was a tough, tricky thing to do (though I could probably make him even tougher if I had more inf), and didn't find it all that fun.

And then I have characters that definitely could not do it. I'm fine at being at x2-x4 on most of my guys. That's where I'm comfortably between too easy and too hard, and where I have fun.

I do wish KB had another, similar setting (you KB or KD). Probably the best option we have right now is to make Solar Flare KD, and you can slot for the KB if you want. I know that still won't make some happy, but I think it's better than where we sit right now.

Much as I love Nova and would like to describe it in those terms, there are plenty of targets still alive after I use it... and I don't have the endurance to do much about it. Ageless does help with that, technically, but I hate having to even retoggle after using my Nuke. Adding to that difficulty is that the current crashless nukes really do hurt mobs, so a reduction in damage to their levels (or higher, if the Tier 9 for Beam Weapons is used as a targeting point) would not be a bad thing.

I also rather hope the recharge would be reduced on the Nukes (since their damage is lowered), which would also up their utility considerably.

I said this on the closed boards and I'll repeat it here. The game is set up now so any AT can work in any type of content. This is to the point where people playing the same game can argue with equal force that Scrappers, Tanks, and Brutes are all going to replace each other (when the real reason is that they all have different but equally valid tools to get the job done). There is no reason for Nova not to be roughly equivalent (rather than weaker) to a Blaster. Same for Dwarf with Tanks and Humans with Scrappers. Kheldians aren't going to replace those ATs if they were more in line with them, just offer a different experience and way of getting the job done.

Much as I love Peacebringers, your earlier description is too strong. Its damage is okay, but it is not absurd. Peacebringers on Live are in that tricky spot where they could get things done, but lagged significantly behind what other ATs can do (and with less effort). Casting it in any other light is just ignoring what other characters are capable of (and once again, remember this is someone who has loved playing Peacebringers, even back when they were DEBUFFED while soloing).

And people do complain about the KB from human form Khelds because their best attacks don't drop things that significantly. Even with Photon Seekers followed by Solar Flare, I still don't drop most minions in a mob (especially on a trial or anything above +1). It's more equivalent to what a Energy Blaster can do with their two AOEs, and those are up every mob they fight (and the Blaster can pick off the survivors quickly while they struggle to their feet. A Shield Tanker can clear a mob of minions with Shield Charge + Foot Stomp, and that's a combo possible far more often than PS + Solar Flare. And they're able to do it without sending mobs flying to the four winds.

Once again, Peacebringers are quite fun, and the changes on Test do a lot to helping them. I just don't want you to keep thinking you were overpowered in the first place. I always argued with people that said they were useless on Live, but I was never going to say they weren't in need of improvements, or that they were overpowered.

The adjustments the devs made are quite good. The better costumes weren't seen in the SDCC pics, unfortunately, but those worse ones did get improved (I hope you saw that). The hoods and glowing eyes are back for most enemies, and none of them are only in tights anymore. The look is different, but it is pretty good now, and keeps enough of the old vibe (at least to my mind, and CoT are one of my favorite enemy groups).

I'm not as keen on it as Street Justice (and maybe Beam Weapon) but it seems like a great buff set. I was debating trying it on a Corruptor, but I don't seem to like those any more than Defenders. I was loath at first to reroll my Grav/Kin Controller that is 24, but I think I probably will make him a Grav/Time. Time is sounding more fun to me than a Kin, to be honest, and it seems like it will be as strong of a set.

The mechanics of the set sound pretty fun as well, and should mesh pretty well with Gravity, I think.

Heh, I'm more just telling you all what Arbiter Hawk has said in posts and a couple of PMs to me. If I didn't have that info, I would be right along with others in asking for more animation changes to Light Form and our shapeshifting time if he hadn't told us that they want to adjust those, but it has to wait on Art and FX time.

Now, if we don't hear anything about this for I22, I will certainly be asking questions. And I do hope some of our other suggestions get listened to (outside of those animation changes, I'm not sure how convinced Arbiter Hawk is about doing more changes or not... he's said wait and see to most ideas). I just want everyone to know where we sit.

Okay, I've seen you say this here, and then elsewhere say that human form's AOEs are as good as Nova's. Where are you getting that info? Scatter and Detonation do a third more damage in Nova Form BEFORE you count Nova's damage inherent boost. With it, they do double. That's not "as good as" by any stretch of the imagination: human form's AOEs are anemic by comparison.

Also, to respond to the above, Solar Flare would up a Peacebringer's damage and survivability. Pulsar and human form's best two attacks are all melee ranged, meaning Solar Flare scatters them away from your best follow up powers. If Solar Flare did KD, you could use your best AOE power, and follow it up with either some direct mitgation or your best damage. Arbiter Hawk has explicitly stated that he did not want to make Solar Flare KD at this time, because it might overpower Peacebringers after the other changes on Test. I do not deny that it would improve our performance, but I do disagree that it would overpower Peacebringers. It would bring them more up to level with Warshades and other ATs, as well as allowing their powers to work together more effectively.

I keep arguing for more changes as well. Peacebringers in particular had so many powers that did not synch up or perform well that a lot of changing is needed. If Warshades are seen as balanced or at least competitive with other ATs (which I assume they are, given they have sat as they are and are now getting a few tweaks), then that is why I keep comparing to them for Peacebringers. Light Form and Inner Light seem roughly equivalent and competitive, though it seems that Photon Seekers still aren't going to cut the mustard with how they currently sit.

I don't know if they need to recharge faster and do similar damage to Shield Charge, or what. I kind of like the longer recharge and heavier hit, but maybe performance would be better that way.

But certainly Solar Flare and Pulsar are not on par with Warshades. The suggestions I keep fighting for aren't overpowering, but balancing. Currently, they underperform compared to other ATs, and they're less useful for a Peacebringer because of how they work.

For Psi resists, I think I mostly would just want that in Dwarf Form. Psi damage is all over in the 40+ game and the trials we have, which does make it harder to Tank in Dwarf for your teammates.

I'm a little wary of it as well. Castle and BAB said much the same thing back at the time of their I11 changes (they never said what their ideas were, just that they didn't have the time to implement then), and it's now the I21 beta. However, since Arbiter Hawk has said he's paying attention to Kheldians for right now (and the devs now have a new development organization), and because he has talked to the art and FX crew, I'm somewhat hopeful that changes will come soon.

We should be sure to keep reminding them of what is needed in that department, however, just to be sure it happens. Just don't be annoying about it: remind them periodically (and not every day).

No, I understand that the animation changes are really wanted. They are wanted by me as well, which is why I want to make sure the devs get them in sooner rather than later. They're not a minor thing, which is why I'll keep asking for them to happen. I'm just reminding people that the devs have said that they are aware of the issues and want to do something about them soonish. I hope they will hold to it as well.

I have an Energy/Energy Blaster and love knockback on him. I love the knockback in Nova as well. The same can't be said for human form, however, sI am going to quibble with your "ranged attack ability" comment. All of a human form's best powers are melee. The ranged blasts are all much weaker and do less damage, so doing knockback in human form effectively means you will do less damage.

Smiling Joe, your one post is a bit too difficult to quote and respond to with all of the above as well, heh. Anyway, the previous paragraph is why I asked how you are getting your human form Peacebringer AOE numbers. Yes, Peacebringers technically have a lot of AOEs in human form, however, they ALL do KB, meaning you can at most stack two of them before the KB spreads them so far out that you're no longer hitting them all. It's not really sustainable, and also, I would never recommend taking the ranged AOE attacks to a Peacebringer player. Their damage is anemic and the KB doesn't mesh well with the far better melee attacks you have.

Now for this: "Not to mention that the anemic damage is balanced against an inherent that gives us - among other things - more damage. In fact, it's possible to cap damage with the inherent, slotting and build up/mire. A better solution than direct damage IMHO would be then to nerf the inherent in favor of direct damage boosts to the powers themselves. Not the damage modifier, because that would bring our modifier too high in relation to other archetypes."

I rather wonder if giving a damage boost to the inherent while we are solo or on a small team (like Vigilance) might not be a simpler way of doing this. But having the powers be stronger on their own to make for more consistent performance (while weakening the damage boost from the inherent), as you said, probably would be more useful and the better way to go.

Your Fiery Embrace style suggestion for Seekers is interesting as well. Seems like it would be another way to make them competitive with Dark Extraction (because I would still say Warshades are the balancing point at the very least).

She's either impulsive or has been planning this for even longer, with the argument triggering it.

Hang in there and enjoy the chocolate chips, and take time to process this. You're not supposed to get over it quickly.

Same thing for Viv, hang in there!

I'll look into it when I have exhausted all other options. It takes hard work and luck to get a literary magazine to publish a story, but once you get in, it does give you an in to other places. I'm mostly trying magazines right now while I get a bigger project together, which will give me other places to look.

I don't particularly believe self-publishing is a great help, either. There is a lot of stuff being published out there by publishing companies, and while those can have issues, they at least have had a pass by editors, etc. Anyone with the desire and wherewithal can self publish, so the odds of you being noticed even if your work is good is probably much, much lower than getting published by an actual magazine.

Don't get me wrong, it's nice that you can do it, but I don't really see it as a way to get "in" to the writing business. It's different even than blogging, webcomics, or webshows: people that started those out are noticeable and make people want to mimic them, but their success means there is a greater signal to noise ratio (meaning it's harder and harder to be noticed now). I also know that every writer out there has had to work to be published, and most joke about how often they were rejected before getting in... I haven't even been sending stories out for a year yet, and I have plenty more to work on.

Sorry for the threadjack, all.