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Quote:Exccept when it shows us that they're stepped out of line, and then we have to beat some sense into themI see them more as vigilantes. What annoys me about that is that they're hypocrites about it, and the game treats them as heroes, and expects us to treat them as heroes despite evidence to the contrary.
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Quote:And none of them stand up - which is the whole point of GR - Tyrant and his loyalist thugs are the bad guys, and GR set that up very well - the devs took the vague hints from the original Maria and Tina arcs, and fleshed them out into a whole new world of evil.I have made arguments for the admittedly despotic treatment of the people by Tyrant.
They took a few bits of evil text said by Tyrant and his Praetors in the ogirinal arcs, and turned them into entire evil story arcs - people like Mother Mayhem and Chimera got turned up to 11, and went form being more generic villains into totally evil monsters, and the crime sof Tyrant, which were only vaguely inted at in the orignal arcs were fleshed out fully in GR, with several new layers of evil added to them. -
Quote:Well, the Praetorian threat has certainly been kept consistent - Tyrant was set up as planning to conquer Primal Earth way back in I1, and the Praetors have remained the same people from I1 through I20 - although GR made them slightly more evil, because it gave us more detail on them - people like Mother Mayhem and Chimera, for example, had a few lines of evil text in the Maria and Tina arcs expanded into entire evil story arcs in GR, while the crimes of Tyrant's dictatorship were fleshed out, rather than just being hinted at in the original arcs.Once upon a time, the devs claimed that there was a "CoH bible", that all updates were roughly done according too. It apparently had all the background story to explain the origins of all groups etc in the city, as well as the future plans for story development.
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There's no possible argument in favor of what Tyrant does to the people of Praetoria - Praetoria only needs the guy who can solo the Hamidon and the sonic fence - everything else is there only to keep Tyrant in power, which is clearly shown in the entire GR storyline - the DE don't feature as enemies at all - the entire efforts of the loyalists are aimed at "keeping the peace" and hunting down "traitors" and helping keep the Seers enslaved, and sending people to be tortured and murdered, and keeping the population docile, and hiding the truth about the dictatorship from them and generally helping to support the evil machine Tyrant has set up.
Everything's focused inwards on represisng the people, rather than focused outwards on defeating the DE - which is understandable, as the DE are the entire excuse for Tyrant to crush Praetoriain his iron fist the way he does.
The "anbiguity" was never removed, because it was never there in the first place. -
I wonder where Dr. Brainstorm is now?
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A pretty awesome patch
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I like all of it - although I've only heard about the new SF, but it seems to give plenty of chances for twirling by red siders, so that sounds fine
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They do

The recent Issues are just the meta-story coming back into focus - GR was more about the details of Tyrant's dictatorship - I19 and I20 are about the bigger picture of Tyrant's dictatorship. -
Quote:They're for flavor - they let players explore Praetoria from different angles, and discover all the various secrets there.This is disheartening to see that they pigeon-holed an entire expansion. First Cimerora; now Praetoria. Why create another world map and design such a narrow and limited scope to go with it... then add insult to injury by leading the players on with faction choices when, apparently, they amount to nothing.
That's not the way GR was designed - it was 1-20, with 20 being the exit to the main part of the game - the whole GR storyline ramps up to the escape from Praetoria, when it become obvious how evil Tyrant and his dictatorship is.Quote:I, for one, would like to see the 21-50 Praetorian lore that allows for further exploration of the Resistance/Loyalist (Independent) theme; pertaining to both the self-contained affairs as well as the relationship between Praetorian and Primal Earth.
That's not really possible with the Incarnate storyline - Tyrant and his loyalists thugs are the target for the Incarnates - they have to be defeated before we can face the Coming Storm.Quote:I would like to see player Praetorians have access to Incarnate Abilities with a set of Trials that center around major assaults against Primal Earth (like the destruction of Skyway City); even if those assaults aren't enough to turn the tide of battle. Or even chronicling the internal struggle between civilization and the DE/Hamidon.
Even if Praetorians aren't given access to Incarnate Abilities right away; I wouldn't mind seeing it happen as a precursor to 'The Coming Storm'.
Why would it waste away? It's just another starting option to go with blue and red side.Quote:What I don't want to see happen is Praetoria wasting away to nothing/minimalist use after this particular storyline is done. That would be an astronomical waste of resources and a huge mislead, IMO. -
Quote:Heroes don't do what they do for personal gainAnother 'what the hell?' on the Kal/Sutter Reward differences.
Kal grants you something that boosts your stats until you hit 50. You can then turn that into an item that lets you get a rare Alpha slot without having to run the WTF.
Sutter gives nothing of the sort.
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I care about the story, and I'm really enjoying the Praetorian invasion
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Quote:We do - and we're getting more of the same in I21 tooWell, when we get an end game that seems to fit in with the rest of the game, I'm sure it'll be awesome. Currently, we don't have an endgame.

Like raids lasting several hours instead of being able to do a couple in the time it takes to run an ITF? Or do you mean they'd gate the Trials so as non-Incarnates couldn't use them as another way of unlocking the Alpha slot? -
Quote:But it is a bad thing - and it always will be - there's no justification for what Tyrant is doing to his people.I'm okay with praetoria being a "superpowered fascist dictatorship", as you put it, but I think that there needs to be at least something showing that this might not be a bad thing
The set-up in GR is carefully designed to remove any chance of that - they made the water drugged, so even the support of the civilians for Tyrant is doubtful - they made the Seers slaves rather than volunteers, they made people "disappear" for even thinking about opposing Tyrant, they put torture chambers and slaughter houses under the PPD precinct buildings - the only thing Praetoria needs ito protect it the guy who can solo the Hamidon, and the sonic fence - but instead of just making that, the devs piled on every possible type of classic evil dictatorship idea and theme, because Tyrant is a supervillain.Quote:I think Cole needs, evil or not, to be the last, best chance for humanity in praetoria, to give supporting him some legitimacy.
GR was being developed at the same time as the Incarnate system - when they were creating Praetoria, they were aware of what Tyrant and the Well were going to do, so they needed to give a few heavy prompts for the stiff-armers shouting "Hail Cole" that that route was a dead-end, and get them to either chose blue or red side so they'd be able to do the Incarnate content later on.Quote:As it is, it [SPOILERS] Feels like the end of the Responsibility Arc is steering you toward the resistance, by making you work with Mother Mayhem and then revealing Cole's war efforts toward Primal Earth[/Spoilers], and the revelation that he is the Well's Champion seem to be precluding the notion that loyalists will ever be given the option to choose their homeland over primal earth. And that's terrible.
You're lying to yourself if you think GR ever showed Tyrant and his dictatorship as anything other than utterly evil - the Praetorians have not changed From Issue 1.
The only thing that changed was the perspective of the interaction with them - GR let people play as stormtroopers serving Tyrant instead of the usual fighting them that we do in the Maria and Tina arcs, but the basic framework never changed - Tyrant was always a supervillain oppressing his own people, and planning to conquer others. -
Welcome back

Right now, with almost 7 years of 50s built up accross all the servers, there's a lot of emphasis being put on turning a lot of them into Incarnates, so it's going to take a while for everyone to get their 50s to where they want them to be on the Incarnate ladder. -
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Quote:What exactly has changed from GR to I19 and I20?I liked the revamping of Praetoria that we got for Going Rogue. It was no longer written as simply being the evil goatee universe, showing that there was lots of grey area in the morality and decision making process. For those of us who wanted solid storytelling, this was great stuff.
Everything since then has been a step backwards, showing that Praetoria is indeed simply the evil goatee universe.
Rather disappointing. And this is why I hate that everything now has to tie into Praetoria somehow.
Is it the crazed, power-mad emperor plotting an invasion in GR turning out to be a crazed, power mad emperor launching an invasion in I19 and I20?
Is it the psycho psychic who runs the emperor's enslavement program in GR turning out to be a psycho psychic who runs the emperor's enslavement program in I20?
Is it the aggressive, loud-mouth thug in charge of the Powers Divison in GR turning out to be a violent, loud-mouthed thug in charge of Lambda Sector in I20?
Is it the evil chief scientist of the emperor and his bimbo catgirl girlfriend in GR turning out to be the evil chief scientist of the emperor with a bimbo catgirl girlfriend in I19?
Or is it just the general discovery of the evil, superpowered fascist dictatorship with its mass-murder, brain-washing, torture and repression turning out to be an evil superpowered fascist dictatorship using mass-murder, brain-washing, torture and repression?
The GR AVs built on their original versions seen in the Maria and Tina arcs, and I19 and I20 have continued to foucs on those same characteristics - GR gave the Paretoriansa change of clothes and environemnts, not a change of personality. -
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If only the devs had thought to design it to give players a chance to get new acid and pacification grenades even after the sabotage phase was over.
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Something you can do before you start is ask everyone on the league to drag and drop a temp into the chat window - that way you can see for sure if they all know how to find their temps
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Quote:A 30-40 Praetorian wilderness zone with a Vanguard forward base and a focus on fighting the Devouring Earth who have started becoming more active again now that the Hamidon is waking up and a 40-50 West Coast neutral settlement zone that Tyrant is trying to bring fully into his Empire could be acceptable fillers for that 30-50 "gap"I actually pointed this out a while back. When a character dings 20 these days they immediately get access to quite a few recently designed arcs. My Bane Spider is 25 and has yet to even touch one of the original Sharkhead Isle contacts.
This "glut of content" in the 20's serves to make the 30's a somewhat jarring experience. You go from huge numbers of options for running new and highly polished content to suddenly being stuck with contacts that have been in the game for 7 years. I would love it if the Dev's would start pumping out new story arcs in the 30's or 40's.
