FireIron

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I think Ghost Widow is a Gravity Controller of sorts... at least if she is not I like her power set already.

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She did, essentially, an AoE Lift/Telekinesis. With energy snakes.

Gravity and Mind Control don't have AoE Lift/Telekinesis. With or without cool energy snakes.

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28 people seemed to agree ‘Propel needs more damage and/or lower endurance cost’

losing2entropy, Detain, PsychoKinetic, Gravo_Matic, Dwimble, Kendal, Tetra, BlueBattler, MasonL87X, KalythR, Starfox, Constant_Motion, Telok, FireIron, Psi_Wren, Aristotle, VoidChild, Dr_Strangefate, Ground_Force, BattleFlag, Idlemind, Paveway, Grav_Sink, Red Warlock IMcurious, QuinnBlackwatch, Heroic, Darth Mord

20 people seemed to agree ‘Propel needs shortened casting time’

Detain, Airhammer, Xugumad, BlueBattler, MasonL87X, KalythR, Rockdeity, LAKmastin, Constant_Motion, Manipulon, Telok, Fire_Drake, Idlemind, Paveway, Grav_Sink, Gravaton1, Kharisma, IMcurious, QuinnBlackwatch, Darth Mord

16 people seemed to agree ‘Propel needs a cone’

_Ishtar_, Detain, Gigglebunny, Tetra, MasonL87X, Rockdeity, Constant_Motion, FireIron, Aristotle, BattleFlag, Sandolphan, Cinder_Imp, Buji, QuinnBlackwatch, Heroic



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This is an accurate summary of the opinions I posted. That being said, I just want to footnote this: I'm satisfied by the damage buff to Propel that has gone live.

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If you want a costume change, you go to the Facemaker.

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His name is Menthos, and he's perky.

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Killer mimes.

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Sweet. There were killer ninja mimes in the issue of Grimjack that shipped this week (seriously).

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Making Propel into a valuable single target damage tool still fails to address the control gap, which is the drive behind most issues with gravity. Animation times are a limiting factor for the set's control powers as a whole, not just on a flawed damage power like Propel.

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Fair enough. I contend that pre-I4 Gravity also has a damage gap that buffed Propel addresses nicely. But yes...it doesn't give us anything control-like to do while GDF is recharging.

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If there is some desire to add damage to the set, they should add it to the single target Immobilize (Crush for gravity).

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I feel this pain. I used Crush extensively in the early game, when you could squeeze the hits out of an even-con mob with just two or three applications. Then I leveled to the point where Crush's Minor DoT wasn't doing even a pixel or two of damage to mobs. Crush damage doesn't scale; it appears to be a control power that also throws off a little taste of damage (like GDF) rather than a damage power that throws off a little bit of control (like Propel or Lift). I respecced it out and use GD in its place.

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That is where it should be added to all the controllers that have one. Make that thing be as good as Spectral Wounds and THEN you have an "OK if you MUST solo for a bit, you can" power.

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Again, this gets back to the question, what is Crush for? Damage, control, or both? Right now it leans towards control.

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Propel, both old and new, is clearly a hybrid damage / control power. The problem with hybrid powers is that in order to balance them, the individual components that form the whole are reduced in effectiveness. Isolating these components into different powers would allow gravity users to customize their powers like everyone else can.

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I disagree with your assessment of Propel. This is a damage power. It just happens to have a high-magnitude minor control effect. The problem it had before I4 was that, although it was classed as "High" damage, its long activation and recharge times made its DPS lower than Brawl (which is pretty bad). Tweaking its damage by the amount they did in I4 has brought its DPS up to the level of attacks like Lift and Air Superiority.

Everybody seems to want to add +Disorient to Propel. If I could have it for free I wouldn't complain, but I'd rather not trade the additional I4 damage for it. This power is about bringing the big hurt. The long activation time just gives the target time to say "Oh Sh*" before my uncle's 1985 Mercury Sable wallops them in the chin.

We just seem to have fundamentally different opinions about the proper roles of Propel and Crush. You see the first as a control power and the second as a damage power; I'm just the opposite.

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The thing with Gravity is that there are so many possibilities for changing powers many of which are all actually good ideas. The problem is to narrow down which changes will provide the A) Most balance B) Satisfy the majority and C) Close the control gap.

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Ding ding ding!

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This thread alone contains the following:

Propel: v1 Keep I4 damage but lower the animation time
v2: Keep the I4 single target damage / knock back effect, but make it an AoE disorient from the original target.
v3. Keep the pre I4 damange, lower the animation time to match Lift, making it a single target kock back version of lift.
v4. Get rid of all damange and make it an AoE disorient.

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v5. Keep the pre-I4 damage, KB, & animation time; but make it a cone effect.

BTW, I hate v4. It's mere existence fills me with rage and spite.

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Dimension Shift: v1. Make it an AoE disorient
v2 Make it a single target phase
v3 Make it an AoE lift w/ no damange - like Ice slick from Ice Control.
v4 Keep it the same

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v1 and v3 are each completely different from what it is now. The power would have to be renamed. That being said, Yay for v3.

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Worm Hole: v1 Keep the pre I4 version
v2 Keep the pre I4 version, but get rid of the knock back and lower the animation time
v3 Keep the new I4 veriosn, but increase the base disorient time, stop the stringing effect, get rid of the knock back, and lower the recharge time a little bit.

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Wow, v3 is a just a bucket o' tweaks, innit?

v4. Keep the new I4 version. If you must tweak it, increase the disorient magnitude or duration.

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The only problem I see with the v2 of Propel is the animation time, its way to long.

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Honestly...if they actually broke down and dialed back the activation time on Propel, I don't know what people would find to complain about.

Just kidding. We always find something to complain about.

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Currently, I use Propel not for the damage but to knock opponents back toward the tanker, into ice patches, etc. If the speed of the power were improved it becomes a decent single target knockback. (By the way, unlike some people, I find knockback very useful. I just make sure I'm knocking the target in the direction I want, as opposed to firing randomly.)

And, of course, shortening animation/recharge likewise increases damage per second, which some people want. I don't care about that, though - I'd just like to be able to keep people off their feet more easily.


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If your secondary is FF, then Force Bolt will do what you want very nicely.

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You don't see a huge difference between a sniper rifle and a cannon? O.o Besides, D-Shift already functions as the 'time out' power. AoE Wormhole would do it in a less annoying fashion, but then why not just put old Wormhole into D-Shift's spot and leave new Wormhole in the 8 spot seeing as how AoE Wormhole and D-Shift serve similar functions?

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I can't and won't defend D-Shift. It's a crappy situational power, and I have no intention of taking it. That being said, I don't think that the devs have sinned against us by leaving it more or less as is. Either more people are taking it and using it that it appears (and there are some on these boards who use it and like it), or they have some other reason for keeping it around. We, out here in the cheap seats, just don't know. My guess is that dropping D-Shift and jacking an entirely new power into the slot was just too much implementation for the given time.

Now, it occurs to me that the Fold Space code is probably still compiled into the system somewhere. Suppose they dropped D-Shift, moved single-target Wormhole down into tier 6, and restored Fold Space to Tier 8. Okay, now (a) we've annoyed everybody who likes D-Shift, and (b) we've made the original problem (Gravity doesn't have enough AoE control) worse.

This way, they were able to do something quickly to address our concerns. Any time they change the system, there's going to be winners and losers.

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And by the by, what difference does it make who liked what and who didn't 3 months ago? That makes no difference whatsoever to the people who have and use WH and liked it as it was.

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It makes a difference to the devs. They asked for suggestions, and they got an earful, many of them doubtful about the utility of Wormhole. Now that they've changed it, a different bunch is jumping up and down screaming. We really must seem like an un-pleaseable lot.

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What are you talking about?

The only post I ever made in THAT thread was against making our pets a toggle, as far as I can remember. I never said anything about wormhole one way or the other... or any other powers for that matter.

And if you think I DON'T want any changes to wormhole, then you need to work on your reading comprehension. In fact, I've said several times that it needs exactly the things you listed. If you want to call me out on anything, the only thing you can say is that I like the AoE WH better than the single target.

EDIT: Hmm.. came off kinda harsh i did. I think I may have misuderstood what you meant by your post... were you saying that I was the only voice in favor of the current wormhole? I'm confused!!

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Starting on Jan 4th, you asked to keep the knockback in Wormhole. This started a discussion with Pheroz on the subject, in the course of which you said that you found the power useful. While not exactly a ringing endorsement, by comparison you seemed the most pro-Wormhole-as-is voice on the thread. My apologies if I seem to be setting you up for an opinion you don't really hold.

As I said, it's all still there on the Dev Corner area.

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I dont think people asked to have Wormhole entirely changed in function though.

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Yeah, we kinda did.

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Just because it still ports guys doesnt mean it does the same thing. It doesnt work like it used to at all because its old value was precision and isolation. All gone now. Shorter animation, no knockback, or longer disorient would have been fine for Wormhole. People also asked for an AoE disorient but the vast majority were calling for DS and Propel to have that change.

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I don't see it as a huge change to the power. Before it was a sniper rifle, now it's a cannon. We needed another cannon. Having a power that makes a bunch of bad guys take a fifteen second timeout on the far side of the map sounds useful to me, especially if I can slot it up to increase the disorientation time.

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So, while I like to believe it was accidental on the part of the devs, they happened to shaft the current use of wormhole, plus the Disorient duration is too low to answer the reason we wanted an AoE disorient. While a majority of the people in that thread wanted DS or Propel changed to a disorient or a knock up, they werent changed. At least Propel has better damage now (though I personally am still 100% uninterested in the power for other reasons).

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I like having one power that brings the big hurt. When I hit a punk with a rusted out Dodge Dart, I expect it to leave a mark. Before, they weren't even losing bladder control.

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Its weird how Rad has 2 AoE holds (even if one is end heavy) and gravity has just 1.

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Yeah, Force Field brings an unexpected amount of control to the table too, at the upper end of the set.

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The difference is, improving Wormhole by shortening the activation, taking away the Knockback or lengthening the Disorient leaves the power fundamentally the same. Making it AoE changes the power on a fundamental level. People have been asking for the activation on Gravity Distortion to be shortened as well, that doesn't mean GD is a bad power that needs to be replaced. Without getting into the right or wrong of it, the power that consistantly gets the most requests for a fundamental change has always been Dimension Shift.

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Our requests for improvements to Wormhole weren't hedged with such boundary conditions. I think the change to an AoE is fairly within the scope of what we discussed in January.

Decreasing the activation times of most Gravity powers was requested. (Everybody always wants their powers to activate faster.) They didn't do everything we asked, nor did we expect them to! We threw out many ideas, hoping that a few would stick.

Yes, I'm slightly disappointed that D-Shift was left largely intact. I understand what it is meant to do, it seems to do that, but I don't have a need or desire for it.

Okay, I've respec'ed in the AoE wormhole on Test and took it out for a spin. Overall, I think it's good in the most basic way: previously I had no intention of taking Wormhole in my main's build on Live; now I am seriously mulling it.

This thread seems to have largely become populated with people who are unhappy about the Wormhole changes. That's fine, but I just want to point something out. I just went back and reskimmed the Developer's Corner/Controller Issues thread from Jan-Feb, where Statesman asked people to comment on what we thought needed to be done for Controllers, particularly Gravity, which he singled out as "weak." A whole bunch of us Gravity types brainstormed a lot of ideas for improving the set.

Read the thread for yourself, it's still up (and locked now). With the notable exception of ProcessedMeatMan, almost all of us called for some kind of change to Wormhole -- shorter animation, no knockback, longer disorient, whatever. We also largely called for another AoE control, although this request was generally formulated as "Replace D-Shift with a useful AoE control." So it looks like they read what we suggested and tried to meet our requests, such as tweaking Propel so that it no longer did sub-Brawl DPS.

What I'm saying is that that would have been a good time for people to come out and say "Wormhole is fine as it is." They didn't hear that except from PMM. The rest of us kind of drowned him out.

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I geek in almost every traditional field (Programming, Computer gaming, TT wargames, TT RPG, Fantasy art, Anime) but I've never understood the attraction of the CCG thing, I have a solid suspicion that the cards are coated in some kind of addictive contact drug.

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Speaking as a reformed M:TG addict, there is a serious endorphin rush that occurs when you win a tough duel, just as in any one-on-one competitive activity.

I didn't kick Magic because I didn't enjoy it; god help me, I enjoyed it. I kicked because I couldn't afford to compete at the tournament level, and I was seriously considering cutting back on basic living expenses so I could acquire more cards.

So I quit and started practicing 16th-century rapier combat in the SCA as a replacement. Yay physical activity!

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At the annual "We Hate FireIron" meeting. Man, it was great!

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Where did you find a venue that could hold that many people?

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Who knew George Bush could breakdance?

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Great, thanks. Now I've got the image of pagan vegetarian neo-nazi devil-worshiping goth breakdancing Dubya in my head. Just what I need.

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"City of Heroes. It turns you into a devil worshiping goth neo-nazi pegan vegetarian!"

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When did you meet my ex-girlfriend?

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I have a grav/ff controller and he has lots of "situational" powers.

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It's kind of the defining feature of the grav/ff build.

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Like most high level power, it is situational and is very powerful when suddenly faced with more foes than you can handle.

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Well, that clears up that. Black Hole and Dimension Shift are designed to be panic buttons.

Consider that carefully before choosing either of these powers.

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Did you just turn the word "noun" into a verb?

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Yes. He verbed it.

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I'm guessing that Accuracy will be nerfed.

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First "Kill Skuls" and then this -- I think the messageboards have finally destroyed Statesman's mind.

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Nah ... It's all the "Pie" jokes.

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And the "Pie" jokes are from...the messageboards. Quod Est Demonstrandum.

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I'm guessing that Accuracy will be nerfed.

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First "Kill Skuls" and then this -- I think the messageboards have finally destroyed Statesman's mind.

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What do you think about this change to the default binds?

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Make it so.

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First guy I thought of was Doctor Polaris, actually

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Also, Cosmic Boy, of the Legion of Superheroes.

Still...magnetic control in the CoH paradigm? Will they have monopoles as pets?

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Anytime a Mission has a boss, the mission text SHOULD clearly identify that a boss will appear regardless of the team size entering it (bosses appear in spawns usually if there's 2 or more heroes on a mission map). /Bug it if the text isn't clear. We'll be improving this UI shortly so that there are icons that point out when a mission requires help and when it's solo-able.

So, folks, /bug it if the text isn't clear.

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Okay, so I get a mission, briefing is along the lines of "The clockwork are trying to build a hooziwhatsis in the MacGuffin Building! Starguard Nova, go stop them!" Studying the briefing, I think, okay, no named bosses...enter the building, and the first room has a red Prince named "Gears". Oops!
Exactly how do I format the /bug report? Do I just write "/bug mission has named boss not mentioned in briefing?" Is that useful?