Filth_EU

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Very true, Filth - you're not gonna need the other armours when you have 'slotted' GA.

They'll be useless: only things that go with GA are rooted, earth's embrace, stone skin and mud pots.

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hmm, except I don't agree with this - you have to remember anytime you're exemped below level 32 you lose Granite, so this could be for a TF or Trial you want to do or for Bloody Bay or Siren's Call. For this you might want to keep Rock Armour, Minerals (which will help you see Stalkers and other Stealthed mobs) and maybe even Crystal. Even after level 32 you might want to keep these armours (especially Minerals).

It's also true that because of the Healing abilities of Stone (Rooted and EE) you might be able to do a lot without GA or anything else except Rooted + Pots, I've been able to do this partly because I have Fault in Stone Melee which is a great AoE stun power, Ice secondary is even better.

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Heh, at least it was fun, I feel sorry for you guys getting all that debt. Dont know what happened there but there was definetly something wrong, lvl 26 was max level and we were fighting lvl 29s and 30s.

As for me, next time i wont start it without 2 cors and 2 MMs, I respect your opinion about no MMs but that will never work for me.

Hopefuly we will get it right soon Manf.

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It's the players not the ATs. I've done this respec now successfully twice with different toons (both times without the logout nonsense). Our problem was we were fighting too far below level and we didn't have enough support, or enough damage output - or even ability to hit anything.

MMs tend to work by simply overwhelming numbers, 3 MMs are going to create a lag-aggro swarm of 18 pets (I think) at this level. Personally I don't like being on a team with more than one MM and ideally none, but that's just me (I'm a grouch) - some people must enjoy getting stuck in a cave/corridor with 18 robots/zombies/muppets (I think they're the new pet) in the way.

The best thing to do is take a look at Khaine Star's guide index in the Guides section of the forum, there are several links to Stone Armour guides there.

The reason someone might say you don't need these armours is because they are outclassed by Granite which you can take at 32. A lot of stone tanks take the armours you get before level 32 (except maybe Brimstone) and then do a respec at 32 where they may decide to drop a few of the earlier ones.

I would definitely take Rock and Crystal when they become available. The thing about Brimstone is you don't always come up against fire damage and hardly any cold - at least before level 32, so it's one you might skip.

Minerals gives you Defence against Psi damage and also resistance to Confuse and a +Perception bonus which helps you see Stealthed enemies.

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Im in for retry But this time with a some MMs in the team.
Whatever you plan, count WildFire Manfy in, just write when will you do it.

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We were fighting at +4 and +5. This may (possibly) have had something to do with why we didn't make it. I don't know what difficulty the team leader had their Rep set at, but this would have made a difference. We also had a level 30 with us but she was Mal'd from the start, don't know if this had an effect as well.

We were the 'A' Team? Was I Murdoc then?

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Yeah i noticed that with Energy Drain....slotted with 3 End Mods it can drain about 3/4s of the targets End Bar and only needs 2 targets to nearly fill the bar, with the added bonus of always hitting as it doesn't take Acc enhancements.

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I wonder what the effect is in PvP? pretty nasty if it's auto hit as well.

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Also i found that Aid Self works pretty well in battle as long as you slot for 3 Interupt Reduction as well as the Heals, the down side is that it has a long animation but that can be put up...its better than having no heal.

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Since I'm Dark Melee I have a combat heal already which most of the time is enough, a lot of the time its part of my attack chain.

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OK - so far we have:

Nugget - 25 Stalker
Blackbone - Stalker - Malefactored to Coffin Dodger
Daddys Little Defect - 24 Dominator
WildFire Manfy - 25 Dominator
Coffin Dodger - 26 Brute

Any more? - especially MM's and Brutes...

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I might be able to make it -
Lao level 25 Brute.

I can't imagine doing it without at least 1 corrupter, when I did it we had 2. If you go with this team as it is, I would get measured up for your coffins.

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Just one short on the tanker anyone know a stone tanker into PvP?


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I should be available if needed but as has been said, speed boosting makes a big difference to Granite. The mobility of the other sets is probably more sensible but I'm up for it. I've PMd Knight.

I did a bit better in S4 as EL POLLO in Bantam though jeje XD

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Good to know you had fun with this Kronic, since I haven't seen much posted about it I was wondering how people did with it. I wanted to know why you took the fitness pool? I'm planning to avoid it completely - were there other reasons you took it other than Stamina? Did you also go for the Medicine Pool?

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I took the fitness pool purely for stamina as the 1st 20 lvls rolled by so slow having to rest every couple of minutes, which also didn't help with the fury system. Now looking back, when the higher lvl content arrives i may get the new respec a run a few tests to see if its any better with just Energy Drain and Conserve Power, which will leave to extra power choices as well.


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I took Dark Melee so I had a very good Endurance boost power at 18, I can imagine it would be hellish waiting to 28 without that and without Stamina. So far I'm managing OK, I was wondering if EA could leave Stamina by only using Conserve Power and Energy Drain.

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And yes i took the medi pool, but not until i got the 2nd respec...but with Aid Self i was able to bump the rep up to the hardest one (previously on the middle setting).

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That's interesting - is Aid Self usable in a fight at this level?

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I will say one thing about the EA set, i found it suffers in larger teams compared to the rest....simply because of the lack of damage resistance. But then if your in a large team, you've generally got some bod who can heal ya so not too much to worry about.

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I've found just the same, as long as I know the people in a large team, EA doesn't have much margin for error.

Something I've found a lot of fun is teaming with a Stalker, this has a completely different feel to anything I've done before since being EA we can be 'stealth brutes'; the Stalker can generally take out bosses very fast and I can take the aggro off a Stalker and mop up. I'm curious to see if this scales up with more EA brutes and more stalkers...or ends up with a line of skulls in the team window.

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iYou actually only need Boxing and Tough from the fighting pool to take advantage of the stacked resistance from the passive.

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lol i said 3 cos i diddnt take dampening field, i probably wasnt clear. and i will admit they are handy just i havent had time to respec after takin consever power .

so i will probably take dampening feild instead as smash/leathal so is common, the only reason i diddnt take the passives and stun is the space in my build is sadly quite limited.


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Yes, you're right in that it takes 3 powers to get that S/L resistance. It's a tricky one, you know more than me what it's like all the way to 40, if you have the option and don't mind running another toggle it might well be worth taking since the damage reduction is pretty big, nothing like the other armours but not bad.

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btw do u pvp alot as stun probably rules there.


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My PvP experience is limited but the EM attacks are probably the most effective melee attacks there are - high single target energy damage, combined with stuns and toggle dropping is just very nasty. In theory an EM/EA Brute could be very potent in PvP.

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as for bosses i cheated if i was solo and just mashed all the ins picked up over the lvl or hit overload .


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I would call this intelligence ;>.

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if you could post how u get on without stamina that would be great, i made do until 20 and a bit beond by simply managing my toggles but atm i cant see myself without it, i would loose a fair few slots to end reductions. but if it works the extra powers could make for a pretty hardcore brute

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I chose Dark Melee/Energy Aura, so I have 3 powers which can boost Endurance (there's one in DM). Right now I'm level 24 and I'm using the DM power which so far is very good, my endurance tends to be right on the edge, generally I can keep going without stopping for rests if I'm soloing or in a duo. Slotting for my 2 main single target attacks is 2 ACC, 2 End Red, 2 Recharge. At some point I'll probably put in an ACC debuff in these as well since this is the secondary effect in DM. Of course I've yet to get Energy Drain at 28 so I'm counting on that giving me enough Endurance without Stamina and even without Conserve Power - by the time that becomes available I'll know whether I need it or not. I still have another 3 or 4 attacks I'm planning to pick up so my End use is going to ramp up, but at the moment I'm doing well enough to know I don't need Stamina.

I don't know what you're slotting is but Fury makes up for not having Damage slots in your attacks, as long as you can keep your momentum going you can sustain high Fury most of the time.

Good to know you had fun with this Kronic, since I haven't seen much posted about it I was wondering how people did with it. I wanted to know why you took the fitness pool? I'm planning to avoid it completely - were there other reasons you took it other than Stamina? Did you also go for the Medicine Pool?

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i thought the passives for EA were buffed to around 12% unslotted but im no good with numbers so i could be wrong.


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It's definitely (currently ) 7.5% base resistance for Dampening Field - I tested it when I started out & it's also the figure Hero Planner uses (not that this gives me faith in the other figures, but there you go).

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and i wouldnt take tough with it as thats 3 powers (u have to take punch or kick) that u dont really need omho. so i would skip the passives to make room for heal self, cuts down time alot and slotted with interupts con be useful in battle especialy as your defence based u will be hit less.


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You actually only need Boxing and Tough from the fighting pool to take advantage of the stacked resistance from the passive. Personally I don't like the fighting pool but the fact that you don't need Stamina with EA means you're freeing up a power pool and boxing is an extra attack to build Fury. I don't intend to go for Tough myself but I thought this might be useful info especially if someone decides not to take the Cloak.

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stun i diddnt take as total focus has the same mag to stun as the Stun power, that with Energy Transfer, i see no need for it more benefit to a stalker (plus defence scaling is coming with I7 so u wont need to stun bosses that desperatly) not that u askes about energy melee.


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I know I was off-topic when I mentioned Stun but I thought it was worth considering since it's generally overlooked. I could see it being useful against 2 tough bosses and in PvP. Generally it's bosses that are the problem with Defence armours and potentially you might have no resistance to the damage if they do hit you. Being able to stun two bosses very quickly must be useful.

I've played about with a DM/EA brute, so far to level 22. There's only 3 you might not take - the passive resistance ones, and the Energy Cloak.

The resistances in the passives is low - for slashing/lethal it is 7.5% base, however, if you slot this, take Tough from the fighting pool and slot that, you end up with 29.3% resistance to S/L which is pretty significant.

The Energy Cloak gives you a very good stealth power and small Def boost. Visually you are almost invisible so not one to take if you want to see your toon. Although it seems crazy for a Brute to take it works out as an aggro management power than aggro avoidance.

I would definitely take all the other powers. I would also take Stun from EM since the accuracy of bosses & elite bosses is the biggest shortcoming of Def based sets.

Edit: ...and you'll almost certainly need the medicine pool since your best heal power without it is Rest.

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Well, if you dont take to account the fact that DM is fairly nasty for brutes because of shadow mauls animation, and that stone is bad for the -rech in granite, and go more for a tanking build than damage dealer, I suppose it would work...

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I'm not sure the animation time is significant, since if I use an attack chain with Shadow Maul at the end, I still have to wait for the other powers to recharge after it's finished animating, this could change with Hasten though.

A DM/Stone Brute certainly looks like a Brute 'tank' though. It might make up for the legions of dreadful MMs.

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I have a DM/EA Brute at level 35 (also with no Stamina). ToF is a great power when slotted and makes Elite Bosses no problem. Siphon life is ok but the lack of a real heal is apparent sometimes and I'm tempted to swap out the passives for the medicine pool.

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How is Energy Drain? I read that it's auto-hit and the recharge is 60 seconds - is that correct and do you use Dark Consumption as well? I was thinking with Energy Drain and Consumption I wouldn't need Conserve Power (?) I was also wondering if the End drain was significant Vs. Bosses.

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The reason for TP Foe was thinking to Rooted and Granite and the slooowwww penalities of them both. I think that TP Foe does cycle a bit slowly for my liking to use all the time so I envisage using it to catch runners from mobs.

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OK I get you, my experience has been with a Brute you will be tearing through whole groups very very fast, I can see you teleporting between groups maybe, but in any case if you go for TP you'll get TP Foe or recall anyway along the way.

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Im really looking at synergies between the sets. I would really like to know how your getting on with EA as well.

I suppose the real crux is whether the Acc debuff from DM is sufficent to really increase your survivability in Stone until Granite.


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As far as being survivable, Looking at Stone vs Energy Aura, Stone looks much better simply because of the Regen it has. You've got 2 healing powers in Stone (plus maybe Health from fitness) and the Heal in DM. With DM/EA I've got one, I have the one DM heal and that's it (unless I take the medicine pool) until Overload at level 38. I'm not going down the Fitness route to Stamina - EA has 2 End powers, and there's one in DM so End won't be a problem for me - but it does mean I'm not taking Health either, but I'll be able to include the DM heal in my attack cycle even though it's not a very "efficient" attack as far as being End heavy and not that great a heal, it's been enough for me so far though.

EA does have better all round Def than Stone pre-granite and gets those powers much earlier - the two most important toggles by level 4! but of course the Def isn't that great.

Unfortunately none of the DM AoE powers have an -ACC effect, but you'll usually be attacking the biggest threat first - who will always have the highest accuracy so maybe that isn't a problem. I am planning on putting at least one Acc-Debuff in each attack, so far just slotted with ACC and End Red.

I've had similar thoughts about the -ACC in DM and DEF armour - except I've gone for Energy Aura. I've only just got to level 22 so I'm not sure how it's going to work out with SOs and tougher missions - I suspect pretty badly for now, but it's new enough and wierd enough for me to be interesting. I've been taking missions at Malicious without any problems up until now, so I'm going to push it a bit further with SOs.

The biggest thing I've done wrong so far I think is not getting Touch of Fear, the -ACC is the biggest debuff in DM and it cycles pretty quick, I went for a damage resistance power instead, I would probably change this in a respec; at the time I didn't think I had room for it.

I would think you'd want to use Teleport rather than TP Foe, since TP Foe is way too slow to use often, not that it's not useful.

The DOT of Shadow Maul is very fast - it's DOT during the animation of the power.

You'll be in for a tough time until Granite but Rooted, Embrace Earth and Siphon Life will probably be important to slot up. If you add 3 health slots to EE it adds about 50% to your HP total.

Hasten is probably a must for a Stone Brute otherwise you will go insane in Granite.

I just realised...you know this already since you've played a Stone Tank...

I've just looked through some old screenshots and I'm fairly sure Hyperfox was in her teens on or around 12th Feb 2005, so after this ceremony:
Starry Starry Night
L-R: Filth, Purple Shocker, Reject 34-X, Suntoucher, Hyperfox , Cybercel, Silverfox, Doctor Gonzo (also Poison VEINS was on Ding duty off camera).
..we gave the Fox a Viking sendoff - we will not see her like again.

As Rock says, it's not the same power; if you're so keen on the power set...why not play a plant Dominator?

You get the stunningly powerful Telekinesis at level 12, as well as Total Domination and Terrify later. The Dominator powerset is the same as the Controller - what has Plant got to do with it?

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Not only does it give you cool red* glowing fists

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*pink

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jeez louise! lol ...red, pink, magenta, maroon...whatever colour it really is...it still looks cool

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Actually, you were right first time with RED, since when has "pink" been a color assocated with ENERGY?
Its because of the glowing effect it "brightens" up the RED energy fists, giving them a pinkish aura, but the base color for them is red.

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Pink.

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Not only does it give you cool red* glowing fists

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*pink

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an AoE Sleep (which Embrace will break)

[/ QUOTE ]Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought non-damaging debuffs didn't break sleep...

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You could be right, I'm used to running Icicles with Chilling Embrace, either way, it does point up the redundancy of Embrace...

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Oh and before I forget, why exactly do you suggest switching chilling embrace out? Is it the aggro it generates or ... well, something else?

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There's nothing wrong with it by itself - works great on an Ice Tank, the thing is you have to wonder when you would use it given its main effect is a PBAoE -Recharge. Given the fact that you already have an AoE Hold, a Cone Confuse, a single target Hold, an AoE Sleep (which Embrace will break), "slowing down enemies' attacks" seems both a bit weedy and more than a little dangerous for you since there's never a time when it would be sensible to use.

...And you could take another attack instead.

Healing
The only thing about this is if you are teaming always you'll be completely overshadowed by a */Kinetics or /*Dark or /*Thermal or */Radiation AOE Heal, all of whom have better-in-every-way heal powers. All of those but Kinetics can also Rez.

Domination
You might find it slow to build Dom with only the 2 secondary attacks, I ended up taking 4 attacks by level 10. To me it looks like you've gone a little overkill on the 'no damage' route. Chilling Embrace looks pretty nutty...maybe an attack power instead? go on, you know you want to ;>

Endurance
Probably because of my big attack chain I found I needed Stamina, it's also true that the mez powers are pretty END heavy.